Schmigadoon! - General Discussion

[HelloooKitty]

I’m not sure if it’s been mentioned back when we were talking season one, but a favorite fact of mine is that, while Josh was NOT a fan of musicals, Keegan very much IS. And, apparently, he ruined numerous takes bc he would start bopping along to the music when JOSH was supposed to be fed up and unimpressed!

[SoMuchTV]

I’ll spoiler tag it for now since it just came out, but did the bit about

Spoiler

eating the orphans

seem extra dark?

[TalentedButHumble]

SoMuchTV: Yes. I was kind of shock- laughing at it, but it was a bit much for me. And they did it in two songs, not only representing two musical styles, but the second even lighter in tone than the Sweeney number. 

(I logged on this site for first time in forever to see if anyone else felt this way.)

[QuantumMechanic]

In the orphans song at the end, right before the little tap routine with Codwell and one of the orphans we had the "It's a Hard Knock Life" riff, didn't we?

[HelloooKitty]

3 minutes ago, QuantumMechanic said:

In the orphans song at the end, right before the little tap routine with Codwell and one of the orphans we had the "It's a Hard Knock Life" riff, didn't we?

Yes. There was another musical line earlier in the song I recognized as well but didn’t rewind to put a name to. Maybe something from Chitty Chitty Bang Bang?

[Spartan Girl]

7 hours ago, SoMuchTV said:

I’ll spoiler tag it for now since it just came out, but did the bit about

  Hide contents

eating the orphans

seem extra dark?

I saw it coming because of they were a version of Sweeney Todd but I was hoping they wouldn’t go there. 

[allonsyalice]

On 4/17/2023 at 11:35 PM, HelloooKitty said:

I’m not sure if it’s been mentioned back when we were talking season one, but a favorite fact of mine is that, while Josh was NOT a fan of musicals, Keegan very much IS. And, apparently, he ruined numerous takes bc he would start bopping along to the music when JOSH was supposed to be fed up and unimpressed!

Ahhhhh I love this! I too would have a hard time not bopping along. 
 

I’m glad he’s singing more this season. And I love to see Melissa and Josh working together! I love that they annoyed Topher so much they had to take over the parable.

MVP of the episode for me tho was jenny and topher’s ballad. As the resident Aaron Tveit stan, it has to be my fave. It also seems like theyre giving characters who weren’t as important in s1 more to do!

I love the little look it ended on from our narrator. Tituss is so expressive and he’s definitely a standout cast member. And I love the sparkly jacket he’s wearing! I want one so bad! 
 

Alan and Kristen are amazing together. No orphans will eaten in the show though. I think that’s just a touch too dark to actually do. 

[Fake Jan Brady]

Choreography overload! 'Rich Man's Frug' and 'Turkey Lurkey Time'!!! Swoon.

Loved how Josh and Melissa were finally in a big group number together. 

 

[QuantumMechanic]

Topher's little mini-song before skulking off to his tent was some JCS reference, right?  Musically I specifically got a "Superstar" vibe off it in the rhythm and instrumentation.

[Good Queen Jane]

7 minutes ago, QuantumMechanic said:

Topher's little mini-song before skulking off to his tent was some JCS reference, right?  Musically I specifically got a "Superstar" vibe off it in the rhythm and instrumentation.

Definitely "Gethsemane" From JC Superstar.

But I didn't recognize the duet with Topher and Jenny in his tent. What musical was that referencing?

Funny, "A Little Priest" in Sweeney Todd always makes me laugh, when you substituted the orphans, it did make me cringe a little. But there is no way any orphan is going to end up in Dooley's meat case. Way too dark for this show to go to.

Sudden thought: Melissa and Josh want children. What if they take one (or more) of the orphans home with them?

[lovett1979]

1 minute ago, Good Queen Jane said:

But I didn't recognize the duet with Topher and Jenny in his tent. What musical was that referencing?

It was vaguely referencing Love Song from Pippin, but not quite as similar to it as other songs this season have been to their inspirations. On the whole, it was more standard 70s love ballad, but there were some licks in the orchestration that were definitely lifted from Love Song. 

It's a good thing I still wear a mask on the subway, otherwise people this morning would have been wondering why I was grinning like an idiot as I sensed the "Little Priest" moment coming, watching on my phone during my commute.

[Rinaldo]

49 minutes ago, lovett1979 said:

It was vaguely referencing Love Song from Pippin, but not quite as similar to it as other songs this season have been to their inspirations. On the whole, it was more standard 70s love ballad

Yes, I wasn't getting any specific references from this duet either (and therefore wondered what others thought), and though the situation brought Pippin's "Love Song" to mind, the music/lyric details didn't. On the whole it feels like Cinco Paul's try for an extractable song that can stand on its own merits for Season 2 (as "Suddenly" was -- successfully, to my mind -- in Season 1). Still within the period style, but its own thing, not a parody or paraphrase.

Edited April 19, 2023 by Rinaldo

[iMonrey]

I think this was probably my favorite episode so far this season. Last week there were seven musical numbers, if you count the Narrator's opening. That's just too many for a half hour show IMO. We had fewer this week with more dialogue and I liked it much better.

Also loved the songs. I loved, loved, loved the orphan number at the end, I thought it was just hilarious and so well performed and choreographed. I love how oblivious Josh and Melissa are to what they've put together. And I love that Kristen Chenowith and Jane Krakowski are getting more to do this season. Krakowski in particular was criminally underused last season, but even Chenowith only had one musical number. You don't cast Kristen Chenowith in a musical then only give her one number!

Topher and Jenny's love song was very pretty too.

I don't see how Josh and Melissa can pair everyone off, though. So I don't think they've yet to discover what kind of happy ending they need to leave Schmicago.

[sandwoman]

As someone who was obsessed with Sweeney Todd as teen, I LOVED the orphan number. I watched it twice haha! The big ole smiles on the kids' face throughout is what put it over the top for me. (And yes, it's dark but it went so silly that it made it okay for me. Also I am sure that no kids will be eaten on the show!) 

Plus Alan Cumming and Kristin Chenoweth singing together always makes me think of when they did the TV-version of Annie and were so delightful singing Easy Street! 

[Thalia]

7 hours ago, allonsyalice said:

As the resident Aaron Tveit stan, it has to be my fave. It also seems like theyre giving characters who weren’t as important in s1 more to do!

When Topher stormed off to his tent, I groaned and said "oh no, Aaron Tveit is about to disappear again, like he did in S. 1."  I'm so glad I was wrong.  Sweet ballad between the two of them. 

As for the Orphan number, I'm going to blame the fact I've been traveling and am tired as the reason that I didn't immediately know where they were going when Miss Codwell said she knew how she could lose a few orphans and Mr. Blight could get some more meat given that

Spoiler

I never miss an episode of Yellowjackets.  

 

Edited April 19, 2023 by Thalia

[AnimeMania]

S02.E04: Something Real

After Josh and Melissa realize they need to find a happy ending for everyone, they try to make that happen - with unintended consequences.

Premiere Date: April 19, 2023   Apple TV+  

[PurpleTentacle]

Epsiode 3:

Bobby's number in court was amazing. I'll drink to that!

The rest were kinda meh, but the Bobby number was so good, if we grade all of them together, it's still an average B+, I'd say.

[allonsyalice]

Playbill! (Ep 4)

[PurpleTentacle]

Episode 4: Talk to daddy and Good enough to eat were great.

Not a big fan of love ballads in general, so this one fell also flat for me.

Man this is a lot darker than Sweeney Todd. At least he only killed people who wronged him (I think, it's been a while). These two are going to mince orphans.

 

[Spartan Girl]

36 minutes ago, PurpleTentacle said:

Man this is a lot darker than Sweeney Todd. At least he only killed people who wronged him (I think, it's been a while). These two are going to mince orphans.

 

Was Melissa was so traumatized by Sweeney Todd that she blocked out all memories of that show? Because how the hell else could she have possibly thought it was a good idea to hook up the wrongly accused and unstable butcher with the child-hating orphanage owner?! Dumbest move ever!

Edited April 19, 2023 by Spartan Girl

[SomeTameGazelle]

15 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Because how the hell else could she have possibly thought it was a good idea to hook up the wrongly accused and unstable butcher with the child-hating orphanage owner?! Dumbest move ever!

She kind of thinks of him as the sweet Mayor Menlove. That could be distracting her a bit.

53 minutes ago, PurpleTentacle said:

Man this is a lot darker than Sweeney Todd. At least he only killed people who wronged him (I think, it's been a while). These two are going to mince orphans.

The worst brats in town might have it coming. (Not that we have seen any indication that they are in any way bad children.) I can't tell whether the show is going to go through with the darkest option or if Josh and Melissa are going to realize what's going on and prevent it.

[Rinaldo]

1 hour ago, PurpleTentacle said:

Man this is a lot darker than Sweeney Todd. At least he only killed people who wronged him (I think, it's been a while).

Nope, he started out with that intent, but he moved on just offing random people.

[PurpleTentacle]

I seem to really love "talk to daddy". Have listened to it more than 10 times now. It just has... something.

What I noticed, on my many, many rewatches, is that there is some relatively  complicated prop-work and coreography in there and at the beginning there was a pretty long segment without cuts. Respect. That can be tough on a TV-schedule. Especially if you have an actor who isn't used to perform in musicals.

I also just noticed that this was the first episode where we haven't gotten a "I'll drink to that!" Boo!

34 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Melissa was so traumatized by Sweeney Todd that she must have blocked out all memories of that show. How else could she have possibly thought it was a good idea to hook up the wrongly accused and unstable butcher with the child-hating orphanage owner?! Dumbest move ever!

To be honest, I don't know if I would have seen that one coming. I mean the guy was not a murderer (yet) and while he wanted revenge, it's not like the orphans ever did anything to him.

But I guess I'm also not that familiar with this era of musicals.

8 minutes ago, Rinaldo said:

Nope, he started out with that intent, but he moved on just offing random people.

Ah okay, thank you. Did not remember that. But still no orphans, right?

Edited April 20, 2023 by PurpleTentacle

[Seelouis]

5 minutes ago, PurpleTentacle said:

 

I also just noticed that this was the first episode where we haven't gotten a "I'll drink to that!" Boo!

We did though!  It was yelled from off camera during the restaurant scene. 

[PurpleTentacle]

Just now, Seelouis said:

We did though!  It was yelled from off camera during the restaurant scene. 

Oh. I missed that. I was a bit distracted during that scene. I retract my "Boo!".

[Rinaldo]

13 minutes ago, PurpleTentacle said:

But still no orphans, right?

We don't know their parental status. Given the lack of defenses against disease, I imagine a fair percentage of early Victorian Londoners were orphans. Be that as it may, I don't see non-orphans as more pardonable objects of murder than orphans. 😄

[HelloooKitty]

Put on a happy face form Bye Bye Birdy! That was the musical riff I couldn’t identify quickly enough last night! I knew i associated it with Dick Van Dyke but thought maybe Chitty Chitty bang bang. 

[Demian]

On 4/15/2023 at 10:17 PM, HelloooKitty said:

The final song of season 1 had a VERY different vibe than all the others. I thought nothing of it at the time. But this time…. when they brought out the tambourines, I realized. This was the transition to season two. This was Godspell and hair in music and dance but still “golden age” in costume and set.

they told us what they were going to do. We just didn’t see it!!

That last number actually starts out much like "Sunday" from Sondheim's Sunday In The Park With George from the '80s, then jumps back to the '60s and '70s when it starts referencing Stephen Schwartz's Pippin and Godspell.  So, yep!  They told us where Season 2 was going at the end of Season 1.

Honest question:  What are Melissa's costumes over the last couple of episodes referencing?  The hair bump, the hats, the drop-waist and vaguely circa 1970 dresses?

Also:  Patti LuPone reveals the shocking reason she's not in 'Schmigadoon!'  "It's their loss," LuPone told Mashable.  Poor Patti

Edited April 20, 2023 by Demian

[Rinaldo]

32 minutes ago, Demian said:

That last number actually starts out much like "Sunday" from Sondheim's Sunday In The Park With George from the '80s

People keep saying this, but (honest question) where's the resemblance? I adore "Sunday," but a chorus singing quietly in unison isn't enough to evoke it for me.

35 minutes ago, Demian said:

Honest question:  What are Melissa's costumes over the last couple of episodes referencing?

It was more obvious at the top of episode 4, when she added the white hat, but I was most reminded of Barbra Streisand's present-day clothes in the 1972 movie of On a Clear Day You Can See Forever. Like this one: 

[Fake Jan Brady]

3 hours ago, PurpleTentacle said:

Ah okay, thank you. Did not remember that. But still no orphans, right?

Ugh, orphans. Either greedy ["More please"] or irritatingly optimistic ["Tomorrow"]; grind those urchins up, I say.

[Demian]

2 hours ago, Rinaldo said:

I was most reminded of Barbra Streisand's present-day clothes in the 1972 movie of On a Clear Day You Can See Forever.

OMFG, how brilliant!  Did Barbara Harris have similar costumes in the Broadway run, or did they change everything for the movie?  God, they're going for deep cuts this season.

 

2 hours ago, Rinaldo said:

People keep saying this, but (honest question) where's the resemblance? I adore "Sunday," but a chorus singing quietly in unison isn't enough to evoke it for me.

I'm going off some interview I read after the first season ended, where someone mentioned that as soon as that song started up in rehearsal, Kristin Chenoweth lit up and said, "Sondheim!"  The very beginning of it immediately reminded me of "Sunday," (just like the very beginning of the original theme song reminded me of the start of the National Theatre's version of Oklahoma!) so that's what I'm assuming it's referencing.

[maggiegil]

Love Kristin Chenoweth but the faux cockney accent shes doing this season is atrocious, my friend claims its a reference to the horrible British accents of the past (Dick Van Dyke etc) but whatever it is I'm finding it painful to listen to her when shes not singing.

I was convinced that this season would be terrible after how great last season was, I didn't think they'd be able to replicate it but its just as good in a different way.

I'm disappointed its such a short season again with only 2 eps left I feel like they have a lot of ground to cover and a lot of people who have been underutilised (Ariana DeBose, Ann Harada, Jaime Camil etc)

Dove Cameron has done a brilliant job, I hope she gets to play Sally Bowles on Broadway one day she would be amazing. Alan Cumming as well is just brilliant in his role.

First 2 eps they were really trying to hammer home that Cecily Strong is not a size 0, it seemed unnecessary and I'm glad that plot point seems to have been dropped. The way they were talking you would think she was massive when shes got a lovely figure

[Rinaldo]

6 hours ago, Demian said:

I'm going off some interview I read after the first season ended, where someone mentioned that as soon as that song started up in rehearsal, Kristin Chenoweth lit up and said, "Sondheim!"  The very beginning of it immediately reminded me of "Sunday,"

I don't care what Kristin Chenoweth thought, I'm looking for elements that can be described. The harmony, or its voicing, or how it moves? The melody (I sure can't analyze any resemblance there, but maybe I've missed something)? The rhythm? There has to be something, preferably multiple things.

The Oklahoma! situation you mention is different: The Season 1 theme is openly modeled on the beginning of the Oklahoma! overture (not just at the National Theatre, it was created by Robert Russell Bennett for the original production and used ever since) in multiple ways: the trill at the start, the move to separately articulated 16th notes and much of their actual pitch motion, the sharp brass rhythm under that... there are multiple details to point out, and they're clearly meant to be obvious. 

Edited April 20, 2023 by Rinaldo

[lovett1979]

2 hours ago, Rinaldo said:

I don't care what Kristin Chenoweth thought, I'm looking for elements that can be described. The harmony, or its voicing, or how it moves? The melody (I sure can't analyze any resemblance there, but maybe I've missed something)? The rhythm? There has to be something, preferably multiple things.

The orchestration is very similar with a pulsing repeated chord and slow-moving melodic cello line. The voice parts, which start very soft and in unison, begin with an eight note on beat one followed by a longer note on the and of the beat that is significantly higher (Perfect 4th in Schmigadoon, Major 6th in Sunday). Also, on the lyrics "see ourselves through others' eyes" there is a dissonance in the orchestra reminiscent of what happens during "let us pass through our perfect park" and while "trees" is being held in Sunday.

Regarding Sweeney's victims, at first he just wanted to kill the Judge and the Beadle, who had directly wronged him. But when he missed his chance at the Judge, he decides that all of humanity deserves to die. His targets, though, are only those who come for a shave/haircut so it's only grown men he has access to. And he is careful to only kill those with no family so nobody will notice that they've gone missing. So I guess they are "orphans" but not children, lol.

I doubt Schmicago will actually have them go through with this plan because child-murder, even in a musical fantasy TV show, is a bit dark. But it's hilarious to hear Alan and Kristin sing about it.

I wish the writers had come up with a better reason for Melissa to not be as familiar with 60s/70s musicals than that she had been traumatized at Sweeney Todd (I think they just wanted to get that blood spatter gag in) because she should have "recognized" Dooley and his story and what he was capable of better if that was the ONE show she had seen. (I like someone's idea upthread that she sees him as Mayor Menlove and that's why she doesn't see the danger) It could have been that she was raised in a conservative/religious/uptight family and those shows were "inappropriate" for her to see so she never got to.

[Rinaldo]

@lovett1979, I very much appreciate the detailed, thoughtful response to my musical question. I'll refer to it while I rewatch that episode, and will hope to see (hear?) the light.

[iMonrey]

I love that Dooley took his cleaver with him to the restaurant . . . and ate with it.

[PurpleTentacle]

8 hours ago, maggiegil said:

Love Kristin Chenoweth but the faux cockney accent shes doing this season is atrocious, my friend claims its a reference to the horrible British accents of the past (Dick Van Dyke etc) but whatever it is I'm finding it painful to listen to her when shes not singing.

I'm 99,9% it's deliberately bad and knowing that I think it's hilarious.

 

 

[Shenanigan7070]

Quote

I seem to really love "talk to daddy". Have listened to it more than 10 times now. It just has... something.

I think that one was an homage to "Rhythm of Life" from Sweet Charity. Also a very catchy tune.

[Rinaldo]

7 hours ago, Shenanigan7070 said:

I think that one was an homage to "Rhythm of Life" from Sweet Charity. Also a very catchy tune.

Plus a re-enactment of "Rich Man's Frug," of all unexpected and wonderful things.

[Demian]

13 hours ago, Rinaldo said:

I don't care what Kristin Chenoweth thought, I'm looking for elements that can be described.

Sorry!  Didn't know the Musical Police were gonna come down so hard on me on an Internet forum board for a show that very few people are watching.

[Rinaldo]

My apologies, I can see how that came off in a way I didn't intend. All I meant was that, instead of a report of someone else's reaction, I'd rather know what all the excellent participants here (you included) think. I've had one response already that has given me something to think about, and I'm always glad to learn more.

[lovett1979]

I want to alert everyone to a great channel on YouTube that is doing fantastic breakdowns of each episode, Broadway By Ghostlight. Here's his breakdown of Episode 4 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOyC0tzKv08. I highly recommend watching this, and the previous episodes as well. He even has interviews with the choreographer of the series breaking down every dance move and reference.

Two things that we've been discussing are given further detail and/or confirmation in his breakdown. First, Melissa's clothes ARE based on Barbra's costumes from Funny Girl and On a Clear Day, confirmed by Cinco Paul. Also, "Something Real" (the love duet) was actually written by Paul many years ago. He acknowledges that it is in the style of Stephen Schwartz but it wasn't written as an attempt to directly parody "Love Song" so that is why it's not as similar melodically or rhythmically to its inspiration as most of the other songs in this series.

I apologize for the hour+ you all are about to lose watching these YouTube videos.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

Someone in the Schmigadoon subreddit had an interesting theory/speculation...

That Melissa will need to realize you don't need life to be perfect to be happy and have a "happy ending" and analogously to how Josh had his big realization the first time he sang at all last season, Melissa will have her realization while singing a song with imperfect rhymes for the first time.

[tennisgurl]

Its too bad that Melissa was too traumatized by seeing Sweeney Todd as a child to remember why getting Mrs. Lovett and Sweeney Todd together was a bad idea. The orphan song was so horrifying that it turned around and became hilarious, especially those big happy smiles on all the orphans faces. 

This was a great episode, all of the songs were excellent, I've been humming Call Your Daddy all day long. I really wish we had a few more episodes, I would love to have more songs and to have more time to wrap things up. 

Even offscreen, the I'll Drink To That lady is goals. 

[KittenPokerCheater]

Is "I'll drink to that!" in every episode this season?? 

[Good Queen Jane]

So far. And I will guess she will be in the last two.

Edited April 23, 2023 by Good Queen Jane

[QuantumMechanic]

Thanks to S2E4 I can't stop watching the 1969 Tonys recording of "Turkey Lurkey Time".  Well, I suppose there are worse fates :)

 

[Silly Angel]

On 4/19/2023 at 9:25 PM, HelloooKitty said:

Put on a happy face form Bye Bye Birdy! That was the musical riff I couldn’t identify quickly enough last night! I knew i associated it with Dick Van Dyke but thought maybe Chitty Chitty bang bang. 

Yes! And Conrad Birdie is actually in jail in the jail scene in Episode 2 for hitting on a teenage girl. I forget the details, but the song points out a few of the inmates' crimes and you see him in his gold suit briefly denying she was underage. This whole show needs to be watched  practically frame by frame to get everything, its creators are so smart.

[Demian]

On 4/20/2023 at 10:29 PM, Rinaldo said:

My apologies, I can see how that came off in a way I didn't intend.

No worries!  I understand how individuals can get all riled up over something that seems pretty insignificant to outsiders, and how those individuals can occasionally turn on each other.

I do think, though, that we're all here because we all share a very niche interest in musicals, and we should probably be kinder to each other than most people on the Internet would normally be.

That said, I cannot wait until the next episode.  I love what this show is doing, and I can't wait to see what's next.

[Good Queen Jane]

On 4/21/2023 at 10:45 AM, lovett1979 said:

I want to alert everyone to a great channel on YouTube that is doing fantastic breakdowns of each episode, Broadway By Ghostlight. Here's his breakdown of Episode 4 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOyC0tzKv08. I highly recommend watching this, and the previous episodes as well. He even has interviews with the choreographer of the series breaking down every dance move and reference.

Thank you for posting this link. It is fantastic and lots of fun to watch. The interview with the choreographer was so informative. I have a new rabbit hole to spend time in!