S13.E06: Stop and Throw the Roses

[hoodooznoodooz]

On 6/15/2021 at 5:01 PM, film noire said:

I'm so sorry, Hoodooz. That kind of erasure must be painful and beyond difficult to handle. 

Awww… you’re always so compassionate. I promise you it doesn’t bother me anymore. I have some absolutely incredible friends and my mom and sister who support me unconditionally. They are fantastic. And y’all on this board: really, you have no idea how much you mean to me. There are some exceptionally witty and kind individuals here!

Back to the episode: Leah should have insisted that she herself go fetch her flippin’ hula hoops. Heather could sit with Lu in the van.

But, Leah.
 

So.

Edited June 17, 2021 by hoodooznoodooz

[hoodooznoodooz]

In the YOU HAVE NEVER BEFORE SEEN THIS SCENE episode, Lu tells Leah that her “eat a- -“ assertion also grossed her out. She told Leah that she thinks Leah deliberately chooses the most vulgar language to mess with Ramona. 
Eboni was pleased that Ramona googled “white privilege.”

[izabella]

2 minutes ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

Eboni was pleased that Ramona googled “white privilege.”

Reminds me of when Ramona and Sonja googled "white trash" to see if Aviva was right to call them that. 

[PhilMarlowe2]

On 6/9/2021 at 7:31 AM, SweetieDarling said:

I think it's interesting how many here (myself included) had no idea about the angry Black woman stereotype. When you are used to being attacked all the time, it's difficult to not have your guard up. I think Eboni is quick to assume some comments have racial undertones because that has been her experience. Part of my issue with her is how she reacts to the perceived slights. She comes across as very accusatory, and I think that's what sets the other women on the defensive. It really is about listening to each other and understanding where they're coming from, but it's a two-way street. Maybe as she gets to know the women better she will see that they are more harmlessly clueless than racist. I don't think Luann meant anything nefarious, but do believe Heather was being condescending in her attempts to help, but then she treats everyone like a small child. I just hope she doesn't offer Eboni a meatball (flashback to the Berzerkshires with Bethenny).

Personally, I saw no difference between the way Eboni was acting and the way Ramona, Luann and Leah were acting. In fact, of all of them, Eboni probably stayed the most calm - Leah literally stormed away screaming at everyone, Ramona was banging her hands on the table at one point and Luann was very quick to defensively infer things that were not actually said (ie insisting that Eboni was saying that she was uneducated). And I think that's the point here - Eboni was being held to a different standard than the other women, and, in that different standard, she was specifically being called "angry" when no one else was being described as such. And even though there may in fact be people who have no idea about the angry black woman stereotype, there are also many, many people who are familiar with it (myself included - I'm white, btw), which means it is a real thing that exists for many women of color. As such, I don't think Eboni did anything wrong here and that it would behoove women like Luann and Ramona to listen to what Eboni has to say about it. 

Edited June 16, 2021 by PhilMarlowe2

[SweetieDarling]

I think the reason no one called Leah angry is twofold:

a) Lu started by asking why Eboni was angry - everyone already knew why Leah was acting out; A combination of wanting to take down Ramona mixed with anxiety and grief and the need to be the center of attention.

b) Leah is a petulant child and her behavior was not abnormal for her. It was par for the course. Eboni's raised voice (even if only to be heard over Lu) was new.

 

I think Lu and Eboni had different definitions of "education" or what it means to be educated, and misunderstood and took offense for what they thought the other one was saying, Neither of them gave the other a chance to clarify what they were trying to say, they were too offended by the misunderstanding. I blame both of them.

[izabella]

16 minutes ago, SweetieDarling said:

a) Lu started by asking why Eboni was angry - everyone already knew why Leah was acting out;

But then Lu ended it by calling Eboni an "angry woman," one step short of labeling her as an "angry black woman."

[HelloOutThere]

Superficially…Sonja’s TH where she said “Leah doesn’t come dressed for the event. Leah comes dressed as Leah.”

Which is a funny way of putting it — but did Leah get dressed up in nonsensical clown clothes under the guise of “fashion” last year? I don’t think she was so over the top. She’s always had awful fashion sense (so ironic yet fitting for her…of course she insists on being in an industry that she seems to have zero knack for) but I don’t think she was full clown? 

She’s so obnoxious and no matter the costume du jour and how much she changes her face, all I can see is her mugshot / how she looked in the bathtub in the first episode this season. She is ugly through and through. 

[mostlylurking]

I like Eboni.  It is so refreshing to see someone who can just have an actual conversation and who knows how to use her words (can you tell I have a three year old?) and move on.  Actually that is a major plus of all these NY ladies - they can all go at it but then they move on.  I don’t include Leah in this because honestly I don’t consider her part of this group.  She doesn’t fit in at all.  I see nothing shocking or scandalous about her.  She’s exhausting.

Heather was cringe worthy in her efforts to show how evolved she is, but like Eboni said I think she was coming from a good place.  I will say I don’t think Heather meant to say Eboni is articulate for a black woman (micro aggression), I think Heather meant Eboni is articulate compared to the other ladies in this group.

On to Sonja, she made the most sense in this episode.  Hey, even a broken clock is right twice a day.  It’s nice that Eboni wants to help her, but many of the other ladies have tried to help Sonja in one way or another to no avail.  If this guy isn’t some old dude with an enormous bank account (not a euphemism), Sonja isn’t going to be interested.  Bonus points if he has one foot in the grave.  Let’s just be real here.  I enjoyed watching her fishing though.

[LemonSoda]

On 6/16/2021 at 11:37 AM, HelloOutThere said:

Superficially…Sonja’s TH where she said “Leah doesn’t come dressed for the event. Leah comes dressed as Leah.”

Which is a funny way of putting it — but did Leah get dressed up in nonsensical clown clothes under the guise of “fashion” last year? I don’t think she was so over the top. She’s always had awful fashion sense (so ironic yet fitting for her…of course she insists on being in an industry that she seems to have zero knack for) but I don’t think she was full clown? 

She’s so obnoxious and no matter the costume du jour and how much she changes her face, all I can see is her mugshot / how she looked in the bathtub in the first episode this season. She is ugly through and through. 

Anyone is a fashion designer who can put witty sayings on tshirts and hoodies! You could put “Shes so obnoxious!” on hoodies and be a streetwear designer too. 
 

[halkatla]

Ebony called Lu (and the others) white trash... or rather, she threw the word "trash" around way more than Luann did "angry", and trash has even more racial connotations.  I can´t stand her and Leah, they have ruined the show.

Ebony can´t handle being around white women, unlike Garcelle of Beverly Hills. She does not speak for all black women, most of them would not have been so incredibly racist and stupid as her. Sorry but it´s true. Sonia as the "voice of reason" is a joke because her pandering was pathetic. Luann and Ramona knew how to handle Ebony, they were classy and sympathetic all the way.

Edited June 25, 2021 by halkatla

[Rlb8031]

On 6/25/2021 at 7:27 PM, halkatla said:

Ebony called Lu (and the others) white trash... or rather, she threw the word "trash" around way more than Luann did "angry", and trash has even more racial connotations.  I can´t stand her and Leah, they have ruined the show.

Ebony can´t handle being around white women, unlike Garcelle of Beverly Hills. She does not speak for all black women, most of them would not have been so incredibly racist and stupid as her. Sorry but it´s true. Sonia as the "voice of reason" is a joke because her pandering was pathetic. Luann and Ramona knew how to handle Ebony, they were classy and sympathetic all the way.

I don't think that Ebony "can't handle being around white women". The reality is that very few black women in this country that have the level of economic status, education and "success" of Ebony have the luxury of living a life where they don't come into contact with white women on a daily basis, whether its in the communities where they live, at work, or just performing the day to day requirements of life. There isn't some world anywhere in the US, where middle, upper-middle, and upper class blacks associate exclusively with other black people such that they don't know/forget how to "handle" being around white women. Hell, you'd be hard pressed to find this in any country including majority minority countries. Ebony deals with white women every day - full stop, end of story, and the fact is if what you say is correct - (that she "couldn't handle it") that would have been well know and reported. She's a Fox News contributor - no way, does she have an inability to "handle being around white women".

Where I think that you see a difference between how Garcelle approaches her interactions with the women around her is that she has actively chosen NOT to call out every microaggression or point out every rude/bordering on racist remark. Ebony on the other hand has decided that she's going to point out when people are saying/doing something that has racial undertones, but even when she does, she doesn't do it from a "you're a trash human with no redeeming value" perspective, but rather just from a "you may want to think about what you are saying/doing" place. The reality is that Ramona and Luann do harbor beliefs that are based in stereotypes and biases, just as Ebony does, because those are human traits and we're all human. The difference is that when someone points it out they have the knee-jerk reaction of "omg, she's saying I'm racist" rather than simply saying "you know I never thought about that, let me look at my intentions and adjust my actions to mirror what I intend". I get it that they don't like the message, but this is entirely a case of wanting to kill the messenger, instead of listening to the message.

Edited June 28, 2021 by Rlb8031
possessives are important

[Feech]

Garcelle is a very intelligent and elegant lady who is a wonderful addition to the Real Housewives. Eboni not so much.

 

[halkatla]

On 6/28/2021 at 2:39 PM, Rlb8031 said:

I don't think that Ebony "can't handle being around white women". The reality is that very few black women in this country that have the level of economic status, education and "success" of Ebony have the luxury of living a life where they don't come into contact with white women on a daily basis, whether its in the communities where they live, at work, or just performing the day to day requirements of life. There isn't some world anywhere in the US, where middle, upper-middle, and upper class blacks associate exclusively with other black people such that they don't know/forget how to "handle" being around white women. Hell, you'd be hard pressed to find this in any country including majority minority countries. Ebony deals with white women every day - full stop, end of story, and the fact is if what you say is correct - (that she "couldn't handle it") that would have been well know and reported. She's a Fox News contributor - no way, does she have an inability to "handle being around white women".

Where I think that you see a difference between how Garcelle approaches her interactions with the women around her is that she has actively chosen NOT to call out every microaggression or point out every rude/bordering on racist remark. Ebony on the other hand has decided that she's going to point out when people are saying/doing something that has racial undertones, but even when she does, she doesn't do it from a "you're a trash human with no redeeming value" perspective, but rather just from a "you may want to think about what you are saying/doing" place. The reality is that Ramona and Luann do harbor beliefs that are based in stereotypes and biases, just as Ebony does, because those are human traits and we're all human. The difference is that when someone points it out they have the knee-jerk reaction of "omg, she's saying I'm racist" rather than simply saying "you know I never thought about that, let me look at my intentions and adjust my actions to mirror what I intend". I get it that they don't like the message, but this is entirely a case of wanting to kill the messenger, instead of listening to the message.

I guess I can change what I said to: Ebony can´t handle being around white women without going after them for all kinds of imagined slights and trying to look superior to them, because she obviously feels superior to them because of her education and looks down on them at the same time because she thinks they have had it too easy because of the color of their skin.

She might be right about them having certain beliefs based on stereotypes (we all have those and stereotypes are what they are for a reason) but it´s incredibly rude and racist to bring up race all the time, especially when it has nothing to do with anything that is happening. At least wait until the others have said or done something worth going after (and even then, if it´s a little thing then just let it slide and make yourself look better by comparison - that goes for all races).

I liked her at first and was willing to overlook the "the help" non-sense but she is a really bad addition to the show. And making everything about race when she´s just getting to know people is so tiring to watch.

The only one I could see deserving of being made an example of was Heather, she surprised me with the way she acted. It was totally cringe.

Edited July 1, 2021 by halkatla

[RedDelicious]

I feel about Eboni the same way I feel about Dorinda. Underneath it all I think they are likeable women, and I would like them a whole lot more without producer intervention. That includes the encouragement of allcohol (hehe) consumption and scene direction.

I have a hard time believing Eboni is this naturally preachy in real life. I'd be really disappointed if she was. I, like others, would really like to see fun Eboni. Housewives should be fun. Eboni, not fun.

*and Leah. I would like Eboni a whole lot more without Leah.

[Stats Queen]

2 minutes ago, RedDelicious said:

I feel about Eboni the same way I feel about Dorinda. Underneath it all I think they are likeable women, and I would like them a whole lot more without producer intervention. That includes the encouragement of allcohol (hehe) consumption and scene direction.

I have a hard time believing Eboni is this naturally preachy in real life. I'd be really disappointed if she was. I, like others, would really like to see fun Eboni. Housewives should be fun. Eboni, not fun.

As Lu might say:

"Be fun, Don't be, like, all unfun"