S01.E05: An Inferior Product (2)

[wknt3]

8 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

It also probably means there will be more crossover episodes.   I do wonder if OC was created in an effort to keep SVU afloat.

I highly doubt that. I suspect the opposite - it was created as a way to give SVU a decent burial while keeping the franchise going. If it was created to keep SVU afloat we would have Chris Meloni making appearances on SVU with mentions of Benson on OC instead of vice versa.

[Sake614]

Well color me shocked that Angela ordered the hit on Kathy. All episode long, I was wondering if Angela was playing Elliot. As others have pointed out, we’ve known all along that she is still very much involved with Richard and his business. But how could she possibly know that killing Kathy would make Elliot fall for her? And to what end? To discredit him and the OC team? Is she really the brains behind the business and Richard takes his orders from her? I admit I’m stumped and intrigued.

not at all sure why it isn’t okay for Elliot to investigate Kathy’s murder but perfectly fine for Olivia to be involved with the murder investigation of her brother. Except of course that she’s Olivia, and therefore anything goes. At least Finn told her it wasn’t a good idea and reminded her she said the same to Elliot. Naturally she ignored him but whatever. What really pissed me off was her walking out of the IAB meeting and promptly lashing out at Elliot accusing him of throwing her under the bus. Good for him setting her straight but I kind of wish he’d added ‘we were partners for 12 years. is that really what you think of me?’ Although I secretly wish he really HAD thrown her under the bus. She needs to be taken down several notches.

Richard is seriously creepy and I was glad Gina not only held her own but told him in no uncertain terms that they were NEVER going to sleep together. She’s really good and I hope she doesn’t get killed. 
 

I still have no idea who the other detectives are in OC. I probably should know their names by now but I don’t. Maybe by next season...

[mamadrama]

I'm having trouble buying Elliott's attraction to Angela.

[Sandman]

On 5/13/2021 at 10:11 PM, mtlchick said:

Despite the ridiculous chemistry between Chris and Tamara, I am yelling at the tv “STOP IT ELLIOT.”

Yup. Same here. Elliot's unravelling completely. Which means I have to yell at him constantly. But I fully expect Meloni and McDermott will move from chewing the scenery to gnawing on each other directly before the season finale (Sweeps stunt!).

1 hour ago, Sake614 said:

Well color me shocked that Angela ordered the hit on Kathy. All episode long, I was wondering if Angela was playing Elliot. As others have pointed out, we’ve known all along that she is still very much involved with Richard and his business. But how could she possibly know that killing Kathy would make Elliot fall for her? And to what end? To discredit him and the OC team? Is she really the brains behind the business and Richard takes his orders from her? I admit I’m stumped and intrigued.

I figured she's been playing him, but I was not expecting her to be behind Kathy's murder; I'm not even sure I expected Wacko Wheatley to be behind it. I can't figure out why either of them would think attracting Elliot's personal vendetta could benefit them.

[lawrbk]

I co-sign everyone saying that Taylor and Meloni have crazy chemistry. I think Elliott is just reeling and lonely. I think he and Kathy were high school sweethearts who married young? So he may have never even kissed another woman. He’s probably really feeling the loss of someone to be physically close to. Plus she’s gorgeous, intelligent, has a great apartment, great clothes and is age appropriate. If only there wasn’t that pesky hit ordering... 

as for that, I wonder if it has something to do with her late son. They bring him up a lot. I thought maybe it was just to bond them but maybe not. I don’t know what the connection could be but I don’t know what any reason at all could be. Maybe there was something she blamed Elliot for? It may have seemed easy in your grief and anger (maybe precipitated by their return?) to order a hit when you’re at a distance but now she knows Elliott and I think she does have honest feelings for him. 

I hope Gina survives and, not able to go undercover anymore, joins the team. I like her and the actress. She was great in her scenes with McDermott. 

Edited May 16, 2021 by lawrbk

[MarylandGirl]

5 hours ago, lawrbk said:

I co-sign everyone saying that Taylor and Meloni have crazy chemistry. I think Elliott is just reeling and lonely. I think he and Kathy were high school sweethearts who married young? So he may have never even kissed another woman. He’s probably really feeling the loss of someone to be physically close to. Plus she’s gorgeous, intelligent, has a great apartment, great clothes and is age appropriate. If only there wasn’t that pesky hit ordering... 

as for that, I wonder if it has something to do with her late son. They bring him up a lot. I thought maybe it was just to bond them but maybe not. I don’t know what the connection could be but I don’t know what any reason at all could be. Maybe there was something she blamed Elliot for? It may have seemed easy in your grief and anger (maybe precipitated by their return?) to order a hit when you’re at a distance but now she knows Elliott and I think she does have honest feelings for him. 

I hope Gina survives and, not able to go undercover anymore, joins the team. I like her and the actress. She was great in her scenes with McDermott. 

Well, he kissed his temporary partner Dani Beck In SVU (I was just watching that episode the other day). That only stopped because they got called to a crime scene. It was while he and Kathy were separated. And also a bad idea.

I think he's drawn to Angela because she's mysterious and also has an aura of woundedness and sadness about her (likely due to her son), which Elliott relates to. Well, and she's hot.

[faithie]

Whoever ordered the hit on Kathy, it had to be a message to Elliott.  A cop investigating organized crime AND with a long history of brutality makes a lot of enemies. A Queens housewife does not.

If I recall correctly, isn't the Stabler daughter leading the intervention the same one who repeatedly gave him the figurative middle finger and badmouthed him every chance she got.  (Those with better SVU historical knowledge please correct me).

The black kid getting stomped by the white cops was a pretty ham-handed effort to shoehorn in the current headlines. ("Racist white cops brutalize innocent, unarmed black man"). And the action scene was extremely clumsy where the cops stop chasing the perps and target this random kid.

Does anyone know the real backstory on Meloni's return? Did Wolf approach him specifically for the new show idea? Or was the approach initially for a return to SVU and instead Meloni asked for his own vehicle?  Regardless of what went down, pretty clever that Wolf makes you watch some SVU episodes in order to follow the OC plotline.

EDIT: I was not familiar with Tamara Taylor but she is excellent. She reallly pulls off the "I'm just a mild mannered college professor who in my misguided youth married the wrong guy.  But I fixed my youthful mistake by divorcing him so why would I be involved in any of his sordid activity?"

Edited May 16, 2021 by faithie

[wknt3]

6 hours ago, lawrbk said:

as for that, I wonder if it has something to do with her late son. They bring him up a lot. I thought maybe it was just to bond them but maybe not. I don’t know what the connection could be but I don’t know what any reason at all could be. Maybe there was something she blamed Elliot for? It may have seemed easy in your grief and anger (maybe precipitated by their return?) to order a hit when you’re at a distance but now she knows Elliott and I think she does have honest feelings for him. 

I hope Gina survives and, not able to go undercover anymore, joins the team. I like her and the actress. She was great in her scenes with McDermott. 

That's an interesting idea. If the motivation is something to do with her son it would make a lot more sense from both a plot and character perspective. She's making him feel her pain of losing a family member and having to go on living and suffering. I also can completely buy that she would develop some sort of feelings for him. An alpha male with anger issues but a certain degree of charm seems to fit her type. And the fact that she hates him, but still has a certain chemistry is also right up her alley it would seem.

Also agree that Gina is one of the breakout characters of the series and hope she lives to see next season!

 

10 hours ago, Sandman said:

I figured she's been playing him, but I was not expecting her to be behind Kathy's murder; I'm not even sure I expected Wacko Wheatley to be behind it. I can't figure out why either of them would think attracting Elliot's personal vendetta could benefit them.

It's possible/probable she never thought he would find out and wanted to bring Stabler down on her ex. Taking him down could benefit her in a number of ways.

[Sandman]

17 minutes ago, wknt3 said:

Also agree that Gina is one of the breakout characters of the series and hope she lives to see next season!

Charlotte Sullivan is really good -- I hope she keeps getting work. (This is the second Dick Wolf show I've seen her in.) But, man, am I scared for Gina.

[TM101]

I like the mention above someone saying if you remove the thinking that this is a typical L&O series then it can be a decent show.

I agree..the show is a bit ridiculous but overall it’s kind of entertaining even though it feels like a cliche CBS show at times. Seems like it has been renewed for a Season 2. Hopefully they ditch the series long plot direction and have each episode a different story.

[catrice2]

Surprisingly I want Gina to survive but Ritchie to go. Saw an interview and they may be floating the idea of Wheatley or someone in the family being involved in the new spin off. Either he dies or he is coming back at some point to get revenge. At best he has kept evidence take sure if caught he has something to bargain with against hard time or anything but cushy federal prison. 

I just remember Angela talking to someone about expensive alcohol so she has a man that is not Richard and could be the snitch

[statsgirl]

On the subject of the nephew who was going to be the next Django Reinhardt, Reinhardt was in a caravan fire (he was Romani) and badly injured his leg badly enough that the doctors wanted to amputate it.

Quote

More crucial to his music, the fourth finger (ring finger) and fifth finger (pinky) of Reinhardt's left hand were badly burned. Doctors believed that he would never play guitar again. Reinhardt applied himself intensely to relearning his craft, however, making use of a new guitar bought for him by his brother, Joseph Reinhardt, who was also an accomplished guitarist. While he never regained the use of those two fingers, Reinhardt regained his musical mastery by focusing on his left index and middle fingers, using the two injured fingers only for chord work.

 

[michelec]

9 hours ago, MarylandGirl said:

Well, he kissed his temporary partner Dani Beck In SVU (I was just watching that episode the other day). That only stopped because they got called to a crime scene. It was while he and Kathy were separated. And also a bad idea.

And I remember a scene (Season 11?) where Elliot and Olivia go to the tech unit to get info on a suspect, and the attractive Black lady who is helping them says to Elliot how are you, I haven't seen you in awhile. He says I got back together with my wife, and she replies oh...good for you. So I took that as them hooking up during the separation. Olivia gave him the side eye too.

[snarts]

I like Dylan McDemott but his character is over the top.  Whoever likened him to Lex Luther, thank you.

Also, I'm sorry, but if a bad guy shows up at my apartment uninvited wearing BLACK LEATHER GLOVES the entire time, I'd assume he's there to kill me.

 

[Raja]

On 5/13/2021 at 7:07 PM, WendyCR72 said:

I know he stopped it...and she's NOT Benson, so it's a plus...but holy hell. Didn't Stabler's wife JUST die?! And yet he is lusting after Wheatley's ex and devouring her? Hmm.*

(*Switching from this to another show, so maybe I missed context? Still...wow.)

I flashed back to The Summer of 42 rotating onto TV on a regular basis when I was a kid.  Of course as the regular hero Elliot with many more episodes ahead of him, couldn't go there any more than Rocky could in Rocky Balboa, in that case years (but the first time we saw him) after Adrian's death..

On 5/14/2021 at 3:20 PM, melon said:

The episodes were pretty good, but some parts didn't make sense to me.  My comprehension is slower than others around here, so maybe someone can help me out:

1.  Why is Bell's career over unless she arrests Wheatley?  And it's ok if she does nail Wheatley.  Is it because her nephew-in-law got his knuckles busted via police brutality?  I guess cops still don't wear body cameras in tvland?  Using this logic, why wouldn't Rollins' career be over based on her sister?

2.  When Stabler saw a dead body on the floor of the apartment, he laughed and said, "There's long hair.  He shot Felix."  How did he know who was Long Hair and who he shot?

3.  Elliott is still the poster boy for police brutality by sucker punching the Israeli hit man and trying to beat more information out of him, despite him being a rat already.  Why did Bell hold back the other two detectives when they seemingly stepped in to stop the beating?  She's on thin ice with the brass and seems to be against police brutality when it comes to her nephew-in-law, but allows this? 

It fells like a retread of Lieutenant Van Buren being stalled out as a Lieutenant because of her, not the family's lawsuit. 

Edited May 17, 2021 by Raja

[Raja]

On 5/15/2021 at 6:20 PM, Sake614 said:

Well color me shocked that Angela ordered the hit on Kathy. All episode long, I was wondering if Angela was playing Elliot. As others have pointed out, we’ve known all along that she is still very much involved with Richard and his business. But how could she possibly know that killing Kathy would make Elliot fall for her? And to what end? To discredit him and the OC team? Is she really the brains behind the business and Richard takes his orders from her? I admit I’m stumped and intrigued.

The only reason that my speculative mind goes to is she is under orders from Sicily. They have given us no reason for a visiting liaison to the Italian police to be targeted so they will pull something out of the hat for the next episode.

[jabRI]

On 5/14/2021 at 9:43 AM, TV Diva Queen said:

My girl also pointed out that Olivia looked "rough" in OC and in SVU she looked normal, she said "maybe they don't have a big hair and make-up budget on OC yet"  she's not wrong 

She really  needs a new stylist.  You gain weight as you get older, try more tailored clothes not wearing a coat constantly (like S. Epatha Merkerson knows how to dress), get a haircut or at least brush it, and stop with the 'snarling' looks it looks really bad on you.  At least I watched it with only subtitles so I missed the 'whisper'.  And I'm sorry, with the whole NYPD and Children Services at their disposal, they had to wait for HER to talk to the daughter?  Why not Bell if they just wanted a woman to do it? 

 

On another note, the ex wife ordering the hit only makes sense if she knows her ex is responsible for her son's overdose death, and this is a long play to get him investigated for something to bring him down.

[melon]

On 5/16/2021 at 6:38 PM, Raja said:

The only reason that my speculative mind goes to is she is under orders from Sicily. They have given us no reason for a visiting liaison to the Italian police to be targeted so they will pull something out of the hat for the next episode.

This is the biggest area of the series where I'd like to see some clarification, since OC is the selling point of this series.  Does the crime family have working deals with the mafia in Italy?  What is Wheatley's position in one of the city's 5 families?  Is he a capo, a soldier, or an non-inducted associate?  Richard was very disrespectful towards his dad, so it wouldn't surprise me if he wasn't a made man.  And if he was a capo, he'd be meeting with his crew at all hours, yet he seems to be living as a civilian with regular hours. 

For now, I'm assuming that the children are not officially inducted as made men.  After Gotti, they adjusted the rules to where only your father had to be full Italian.  Gotti's wife was half Russian, and Gotti Jr took over the family for a bit after John Gotti went to prison.  With that in mind, it's possible for the kids to be made- except for the daughter.

[Snazzy Daisy]

The crossover again??? 🤬 Why are they forcing us to watch St Olivia in OC over & over again? The story that links her brother’s death to recent ODs is so ridiculous, they just need an excuse for her to be all over the case and screen time. Elliot has been in SVU for more than a decade. He is capable to question little Gianna in a compassionate way. St Olivia is NOT needed for that elephant memory scene. Geez, stop forcing her on us! 🙄

As of now, it doesn’t make any sense why would Angela be the one who ordered a hit on Kathy, what is her motive? If she needs a relentless cop to pursue and take down Richard & his empire, why Elliot and not other NYPD cops? What if Angela is actually innocent, she is framed by Richard’s wife, Dana??? 🤨

I really love Gina in OC. Her scene with Richard at her home is so intense and marvellous. Her scenes have more impact than the other 2 detectives and that hacker girl. Bad writing & characters’ development? If the OC doesn’t want her after Wheatley’s story is wrapped up, please send her to Chicago PD, she can replace that wooden actress who doesn’t know how to act. 👍

And ohh, no more steamy scene between Elliot and Angela please, that’s so cringey!!! 🥴

[Girl in a Cardigan]

I, too, am losing patience with the crossovers, especially if it has to do with cases. The thin, THIN line connecting Olivia's dead brother to the current ODs was too much to start but when they brought Olivia into interrogation to show a picture of her brother to the dealer and be like, "I hope you think of him every day," I was just out. As a damn CAPTAIN, she shouldn't have been anywhere near this case and I don't know why she thinks that guy is going to care that he killed a cop's brother any more than any of the other people the drugs killed. Like Olivia, please, you MUST get over yourself.

It also makes me question who all of this crossover is written for - most people in this thread (myself included) have given up on SVU because of the St. Olivia show part, but they aren't giving us any good Olivia/Elliot scenes. I'm not saying they can or should hook them up - his wife's been dead for like 2 minutes - but every interaction between them is so awkward and out of place that I don't know who they are writing for. Mariska and Meloni used to be able to make even the shittiest dialogue soar because they had great chemistry and seemed to be having fun, no matter what, but none of this has that spark. So if Olivia isn't going to backstop Elliot as he struggles and/or he's not going to apologize for ghosting her during some of the worst years of her life (which is saying something considering what happened to her while he was on the scene), then I don't need the crossover. Either Olivia and Elliot have a friendship/partnership/relationship that transcends everything or I don't need this.

Again, I remain impressed by Gina (and Charlotte Sullivan) for keeping her cool when Wheatley just rocks up to her apartment to be creepy as well as jumping out to investigate the shooting and getting back to the car quickly enough to seem like she's been totally bored fucking around on her phone the whole time.

I don't know why the OC team keeps trying to get her burned what with meeting up in a totally public place after Wheatley told her that he's following her AND planting the idea of a bug in the wine cellar. At this point, Gina is the only one I care about, so she has to live even if everyone else dies!

I don't know why "Kathy was the target" means that Elliot wasn't also the target. Even if Elliot could see the bomber totally see Kathy getting into the car, why is killing her to hurt Elliot and keep him in NYC (instead of going back to his job in Italy - is anyone doing that job now??) not coming up for anyone? I mean, I would be mad that they've decided to make Kathy retroactively interesting by connecting her to a crime family because THAT's the show I want to watch, not this protracted supervillain shit.

Elliot making out with Angela doesn't surprise me as it feels like the same thing he did when he made out with Dani Beck against his jeep when he was separated from Kathy and Olivia was undercover. When Elliot is struggling, he makes out with inappropriate women. It's gonna get super awkward when the next time he sees her, she's in a prison jumpsuit (as seen in the trailer for tonight's episode), but meh, it was hot.

[love2lovebadtv]

On 5/13/2021 at 10:07 PM, WendyCR72 said:

I know he stopped it...and she's NOT Benson, so it's a plus...but holy hell. Didn't Stabler's wife JUST die?! And yet he is lusting after Wheatley's ex and devouring her? Hmm.*

(*Switching from this to another show, so maybe I missed context? Still...wow.)

I think that's just his grief being + being drawn to someone understands his grief. 

On 5/16/2021 at 9:06 AM, icemiser69 said:

They both have suffered an emotional loss, that can cause some people to emotionally connect when they otherwise wouldn't.  That said, I do think that Angela and Elliott have a heckuva lot more chemistry than Olivia and Elliott have ever had.

Yes, way more chemistry!

On 5/17/2021 at 10:13 PM, jabRI said:

She really  needs a new stylist.  You gain weight as you get older, try more tailored clothes not wearing a coat constantly (like S. Epatha Merkerson knows how to dress), get a haircut or at least brush it, and stop with the 'snarling' looks it looks really bad on you.  At least I watched it with only subtitles so I missed the 'whisper'.  And I'm sorry, with the whole NYPD and Children Services at their disposal, they had to wait for HER to talk to the daughter?  Why not Bell if they just wanted a woman to do it? 

On another note, the ex wife ordering the hit only makes sense if she knows her ex is responsible for her son's overdose death, and this is a long play to get him investigated for something to bring him down.

I like Mariska Hargitay a whole lot but I thought always she had a snarling look even when she was younger, back when SVU first started and I knew nothing about her. I can't explain it well but it's like her acting facial expressions exaggerate her features - similar to (but not as bad as) Kerry Washington. 

Also, did the son OD? I thought he was shot during a raid or something.

On 5/19/2021 at 6:15 PM, SnazzyDaisy said:

As of now, it doesn’t make any sense why would Angela be the one who ordered a hit on Kathy, what is her motive? If she needs a relentless cop to pursue and take down Richard & his empire, why Elliot and not other NYPD cops? What if Angela is actually innocent, she is framed by Richard’s wife, Dana??? 🤨

I really love Gina in OC. Her scene with Richard at her home is so intense and marvellous. Her scenes have more impact than the other 2 detectives and that hacker girl. Bad writing & characters’ development? If the OC doesn’t want her after Wheatley’s story is wrapped up, please send her to Chicago PD, she can replace that wooden actress who doesn’t know how to act. 👍

And ohh, no more steamy scene between Elliot and Angela please, that’s so cringey!!! 🥴

Wait, who's Dana?

And yes, I love Gina, too! 

[Snazzy Daisy]

12 hours ago, love2lovebadtv said:

Wait, who's Dana?

And yes, I love Gina, too! 

Dana Wheatley, Richard’s new wife daughter.

Edited May 23, 2021 by SnazzyDaisy

[love2lovebadtv]

18 minutes ago, SnazzyDaisy said:

Dana Wheatley, Richard’s new wife.

Oh wait, I think Dana Wheatley is his daughter. I didn't remember her name and I got confused for a second. 

Also, I doubt Richard's current wife would be a Wheatley since that's his first wife's surname. I can't remember her name at all right now. And I just remembered he has another son. 

[Snazzy Daisy]

3 hours ago, love2lovebadtv said:

Oh wait, I think Dana Wheatley is his daughter. I didn't remember her name and I got confused for a second. 

Also, I doubt Richard's current wife would be a Wheatley since that's his first wife's surname. I can't remember her name at all right now. And I just remembered he has another son. 

My bad, my bad. Dana is his daughter. You are right. Pilar Wheatley is his new wife. Sorry for the confusion 😬

[TV Anonymous]

On 5/13/2021 at 11:23 PM, WendyCR72 said:

I just hope this Wheatley arc does end in the next three episodes and doesn't carry over to next season (assuming there is one).

I am actually afraid that this show will follow the model of Crime Story - RIP Dennis Farina / Det. Fontana - in that the whole show is a big cat-and-mouse game between particular law enforcement and particular crime organization.

On 5/14/2021 at 12:15 AM, catrice2 said:

Gina is on borrowed time..... as is Stabler's boss.... Meloni and Tamera have chemistry....

I do think that Det. Cappelletti (why does she use real name while UC?) will not last long in L&O universe considering that Charlotte Sullivan is only billed as a Guest Star.

On 5/14/2021 at 6:20 PM, melon said:

1.  Why is Bell's career over unless she arrests Wheatley?  And it's ok if she does nail Wheatley.  Is it because her nephew-in-law got his knuckles busted via police brutality?  I guess cops still don't wear body cameras in tvland?  Using this logic, why wouldn't Rollins' career be over based on her sister?

That baffles me as well. How does a lawsuit from her wife's nephew for an incident that has nothing to do with her have any bearing in her employment with the NYPD? Or did the Chief of Detectives and the Deputy Chief of SVU openly admit that the NYPD was so corrupt, they would hinder the career of an Officer who was only tangentially related to someone who brought a lawsuit of wrongdoing against the Force?

[melon]

3 hours ago, TV Anonymous said:

That baffles me as well. How does a lawsuit from her wife's nephew for an incident that has nothing to do with her have any bearing in her employment with the NYPD? Or did the Chief of Detectives and the Deputy Chief of SVU openly admit that the NYPD was so corrupt, they would hinder the career of an Officer who was only tangentially related to someone who brought a lawsuit of wrongdoing against the Force?

If this has such a big impact on a cast member's career, then I would like to see IAB investigate the corrupt cop that seemingly purposely damaged the teen's hand.  And let the plot play out that unless the teen dropped the lawsuit, then Bell's career was toast.  I'm not aware of cases of legitimate police brutality, where there is payback towards officers that are loosely connected to the victim.  Not unless it only keeps Bell from another promotion in the near future, which is more understandable, but a far cry from her losing her job/pension.

There was a gathering of the Al Sharpton type characters in the room with Bell.  And IRL I don't think they would accept a high ranking female black law enforcement official being rail roaded like this.