S02.E11: Arrive Alive

[Trini]

With Batwoman and The Crows each hot on the trail of the False Face Society, their efforts collide, and tension escalates. Alice seeks out Enigma (guest star Laura Mennell), and Sophie and Ryan find some common ground.

Mairzee Almas directed the episode written by Daniel Thomsen and Daphne Miles.

Original airdate 4/18/2021

[scarynikki12]

Ryan and Luke pretending they didn’t know each other was so fun. They should find a way to do that a few times a season.

I’m really enjoying the relationship between Ryan and Sophie. It’s very Big/Little Sis and I hope it continues. And look at Sophie figuring out who Batwoman is! I’m so proud. 

I love how Enigma just got bored with Alice and Ocean and unlocked their memories before leaving. She’s fun.

Good for you Alice! Ocean’s hot so enjoy the sexytimes.

New Crow is hot. Shame he’s being set up as an adversary at best.  

[cambridgeguy]

So Mary must have locked her self away in a bunker to study for an exam, right?  Because her not being there to watch Ryan do a Fast and Furious roleplay with her Porsche (way to spend that disposable income!) is completely out of character.

New Crow is apparently a genius because he's the only person we've seen who's smart enough to collect a DNA sample from the masked vigilante.

[Primal Slayer]

1 hour ago, scarynikki12 said:

Ryan and Luke pretending they didn’t know each other was so fun. They should find a way to do that a few times a season.

I’m really enjoying the relationship between Ryan and Sophie. It’s very Big/Little Sis and I hope it continues. And look at Sophie figuring out who Batwoman is! I’m so proud. 

I love how Enigma just got bored with Alice and Ocean and unlocked their memories before leaving. She’s fun.

Good for you Alice! Ocean’s hot so enjoy the sexytimes.

New Crow is hot. Shame he’s being set up as an adversary at best.  

Basically said everything I came here to say!

Loved the ending of Sophie finally finding out a secret and cant wait to see what she deos with it.

[Trini]

Yay! My disaster 'ship, Alice x Ocean is happening!

So Enigma just like 'Fine, I'll give y'all you memories back just so I don't have to deal with you' - LOL! Convenient. They stated that it was Enigma and erasing Alice's memories is what made her the way she is -- I don't fully believe that -- but let's see if she actually changes. (I doubt it.)

Really, ALL the Desert Rose is destroyed on Coryana? That is DUMB. Especially since in the Coryana flashback episode, they showed that Safiyah had at least one plant indoors.

Sophie finding out about Ryan/Batwoman is a good twist because they really do need to coordinate.

Sophie in braids! Undercover! More of those things please.

Was this the first episode with no Mary at all? Not sure. Wow, two episodes in a row where they let Luke out of the cave.

No one thinks to take off Black Mask's mask when they've got him??

Still don't care about Angelique.

[Jediknight]

Black Mask sounded a lot like Jacob.

[thuganomics85]

Agent Tavaroff is likely going to be some kind of antagonist going forward, but the fact that he is apparently the first Crow to be like "Hey, that's the vigilante's blood right there!  Maybe I should take a swab of that!", kind of makes me respect him or at least his methods.  Frankly, with respect to Jacob and even Sophie, maybe he should be the one running things, because the Crows might at least be more efficient...

Ryan and Sophie teaming up for a "Fast & the Furious" style mission was fun, and I also liked how they roped in Luke (including him having to pretend that he didn't "know" Ryan very well.)  Luckily for the drivers, there must be a curfew or something in Gotham since all the streets mainly seem to be nice and clear for the majority of the driving (except for that one moment right when Luke had to drive manually.)  But I'm glad it all led to Sophie finally discovering the truth, because it was getting a bit ridiculous.  Hey, at least she figured out Ryan's secret identity quicker than she did with Kate!

Alice might be nuts, but she's right: Safiyah not having a stash of Desert Rose in a bunker, warehouse, or hell, even a freaking pantry, is just bad planning.  You always need to have a reserve of some kind.  What kind of operation is she running?! 

Speaking of which, Alice's mission to have Enigma wipe Kate from her memories is denied, when Ocean makes his grand return, they get into a tussle, and Enigma hilariously reveals that she has a way to just bring back both of their memories of their romance, and does so, while she gets the hell out of dodge.  Nice!  And it certainly looks like Alice and Ocean's feelings are stronger than ever now, so win win?

Mary was absent tonight, but she is so not going to be happy with what they did to her car.  Ryan might have the Batsuit and Sophie has her Crow gear, but I'm not even sure any of that can counter her wrath!

I do love how even under the Black Mask, Roman's business side still comes out, like with his talk about good communication amongst co-workers or acknowledging good branding, even if it literally stabs him in the back.  I'm sure he incorporates all of that into his drug empire, wherever it is the importance of finding/stealing from the right vendors, to making sure he has the right kind of "test audience" for his products.  He probably skimps out on bonuses and benefits for his workers, but that's just good drug-dealing business!  Peter Outerbridge continues to be a blast in the role.

[Chicago Redshirt]

Kudos to the show for having the first episode in I don't know how long where Sophie is generally proactive, intelligent and useful. And yes, it was fun to have Luke play like he had no idea who Ryan was, and fun to see F&F: Gotham Drift.

But, is it me or was there no reason to the FFS using speedy drivers in hopped up cars? Couldn't they just use regular unmasked drivers, doing things at regular speeds in regular vehicles? Wouldn't that be better to avoid the attention of cops and Crows? 

Good on Ryan for figuring out BW's secret but I wish they had her do it not by obtaining a recording of her confessing to being BW, but from the abundant clues that she has had right in her face that she should have been able to put together, having literally spent hours in BW's presence and knowing of Ryan for years. The notion that Agent Whatshisname is on the verge of potentially figuring BW's secret out on his first case involving her makes Sophie and the rest of the Crows look bad. Jacob may be tweaking on Snakebite but maybe his decision to kick Sophie to the curb wasn't such a bad one after all. 

There's no reason Alice should trust Enigma to remove her memories of Beth, because after all, once Alice submits to Enigma's hypnosis, Enigma could make Alice strut around clucking like a chicken and forget that Enigma ever existed. There is no reason Enigma would have put up with Alice's nonsense rather than just giving her the Julia Pennyworth amnesia special other than the show is going to keep Alice front and center. Maybe if they had played it with Enigma going along for the ride over curiosity what might happen, and then being bored now when Ocean showed up. 

No Mary and barely a mention of Mary in reference to her car makes me a sad panda.

[sugarbaker design]

Alice murders another innocent bystander.  Is there a tally of two seasons of Alice's murders?  

[Msample]

Good god some of that dialog was painful. "Do you know how to manage your camber and air flow", 1700 horsepower car ( a Formula 1 car is just under 1000, I think the most a production car has is maybe 1500 or so and that's a multimillion dollar supercar ) .  Not to mention driving contraband from point A to point B doesn't need attention grabbing funky colored cars, a couple of clapped out beige Toyota Camrys would suffice. 

They continue to waste Alice - she's much better chewing scenery and interacting with random civilians and Crows vs pining away for Ocean. I think her character has suffered the most with Kate gone in terms of writing. 

I wanted to see Mary's reaction to her car being shot up. 

[tennisgurl]

I assume Mary is off catching up on her homework, it was weird having an episode without her. She is not going to be thrilled to see what happened to her car though...

Not a bad episode, but they really need to figure out what they're doing with Alice now. They seem to be playing with her being redeemed eventually, but its hard to get that into wanting her to become good when she is also still murdering innocent people for shits and giggles. Her ruminating on how messed up she is with tiny Kate as her spirit guide is alright, but it really needs to go somewhere soon, its in real danger of becoming repetitive, and I am still not sure if I like where her possible redemption is going. If they want Alice to become a good guy, I hope they don't go down the road of blaming everything on her getting mind screwed by Enigma and Safiyah into evil. I think they can probably give Alice a redemption arc, but mostly focus on how messed up she got over being imprisoned and abused for years, this is just confusing things. I would really like her to interact with her family more, or have her leave for awhile then come back either trying to be less evil or being bigger and badder. I think of all the characters, she has suffered the most for losing Kate. They seem to be heading towards Kate dying pushing her on the path to redemption, so we'll see. I do gotta agree with Alice on Safiyah keeping all of her magic flowers in one place and never building a warehouse or something to hold some spars, that was a pretty dumb call on her part. And Enigma is a fun villain, I love that she gave Ocean and Alice their memories back just because she was over them. 

I do like having Black Mask around as the main bad guy, even if it leaves Alice floating around in the wind. He's a very different kind of villain. While Alice was kind of Joker-ish in wanting to cause chaos for fun and wanted revenge on her family, Black Mask is a businessman and is mostly just interested in making money. He apparently wants revenge on Kate as well, and has one serious sadistic streak, but he is mostly just interested in running his criminal empire, not elaborate and theatric schemes. 

Sophie got some good material this week, the dynamic between her and Ryan has gotten a lot more interesting, especially now that they don't seem to be hooking them up romantically. Sophie got to be a lot more competent than usual, and she even figured out that Ryan is Batwoman finally! That should be interesting going forward, and now there is this new Crow who's on Ryan's tail as well. He's probably going to be an antagonistic figure, but he's pretty hot and is the rare competent Crow, so I cant dislike him for now. 

Luke and Ryan having to pretend they don't know each other was funny. 

[Quark]

Good episode.

I love Peter Outerbridge in this show. He's so great.

The guy playing Ocean? Not so great, but he is nice to look at.

[Trini]

On 4/19/2021 at 5:06 PM, tennisgurl said:

... If they want Alice to become a good guy, I hope they don't go down the road of blaming everything on her getting mind screwed by Enigma and Safiyah into evil. I think they can probably give Alice a redemption arc, but mostly focus on how messed up she got over being imprisoned and abused for years, this is just confusing things. I would really like her to interact with her family more, or have her leave for awhile then come back either trying to be less evil or being bigger and badder. I think of all the characters, she has suffered the most for losing Kate. They seem to be heading towards Kate dying pushing her on the path to redemption, so we'll see. ...

First off - I don't think Alice can really be redeemed. She has done so much murder and mayhem. But that's probably the best way to keep her around without her being perpetually uncatchable. Using Kate is probably the best way to redeem her, but it's so uncertain how much Kate will be part of the show going forward.

On the other hand, they may not be doing a real redemption arc yet? We're only in Season 2.

 

On 4/19/2021 at 5:06 PM, tennisgurl said:

I do gotta agree with Alice on Safiyah keeping all of her magic flowers in one place and never building a warehouse or something to hold some spars, that was a pretty dumb call on her part.

It's just dumb writing. Like, that's... not how agriculture works!

Edited April 25, 2021 by Trini

[Chicago Redshirt]

Also, i get how Safiyah could get the conclusion that Batwoman had used a Desert Rose to cure herself of Kryptonite poisoning (as opposed to having enlisted the aid of Supergirl/Superman like we have been screaming that she should have). But what makes her think that a) Batwoman would still have that Desert Rose after she used it to cure herself or b) Ocean would be the best person to send on this mission to find Batwoman given that she just had Alice stab him in the heart and she has a whole bunch of operatives to choose from? 

[Diapason Untuned]

8 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Also, i get how Safiyah could get the conclusion that Batwoman had used a Desert Rose to cure herself of Kryptonite poisoning (as opposed to having enlisted the aid of Supergirl/Superman like we have been screaming that she should have). But what makes her think that a) Batwoman would still have that Desert Rose after she used it to cure herself or b) Ocean would be the best person to send on this mission to find Batwoman given that she just had Alice stab him in the heart and she has a whole bunch of operatives to choose from? 

She's probably just grasping at straws to find any Desert Rose she can. As for sending Ocean, he has extensive experience in Gotham, unlike her other minions. She probably didn't even think he'd involve himself again with Alice, the woman that murdered him just some weeks earlier

[immortalfrieza]

On 4/19/2021 at 6:09 AM, Chicago Redshirt said:

Good on Ryan for figuring out BW's secret but I wish they had her do it not by obtaining a recording of her confessing to being BW, but from the abundant clues that she has had right in her face that she should have been able to put together, having literally spent hours in BW's presence and knowing of Ryan for years.

Yes! The fact that A. Ryan was stupid enough to leave that remote control thing in the car when it would've taken her all of 2 seconds to get it, and B. said remote control thing was apparently recording everything Luke and Ryan said for... no apparent reason was the only way Sophie managed to figure it out was nonsensical. Making Sophie smart and competent is apparently just too much to ask.

Quote

The notion that Agent Whatshisname is on the verge of potentially figuring BW's secret out on his first case involving her makes Sophie and the rest of the Crows look bad.

I wouldn't say this is the first time Batwoman has probably left blood at the crime scene, but it's definitely the first time they've ever emphasized the fact that she left blood at the crime scene. Either something is going to get in the way of Agent Whatshisname finding out who Batwoman is or he will find out, he'll not get the chance to actually tell anyone before dying to keep it a secret, because those always happen.

Quote

There's no reason Alice should trust Enigma to remove her memories of Beth, because after all, once Alice submits to Enigma's hypnosis, Enigma could make Alice strut around clucking like a chicken and forget that Enigma ever existed. There is no reason Enigma would have put up with Alice's nonsense rather than just giving her the Julia Pennyworth amnesia special other than the show is going to keep Alice front and center. Maybe if they had played it with Enigma going along for the ride over curiosity what might happen, and then being bored now when Ocean showed up.

I was confused by that too. I was expecting or at least hoping that Alice had something arranged to ensure that Enigma couldn't just hypnotize her into leaving her alone or killing herself or whatever but apparently she had nothing? Even Alice having one of her mooks stand outside the room and keep an eye on things would've been better than being left completely at the woman's mercy.

I was also confused by how Enigma brainwashed Alice and Ocean and then Julia when apparently all she can do is standard hypnosis. I was expecting her to have some psychic powers or super hypnosis device or something to justify the fact that they can't just refuse to play along. Hypnosis like that only works if you want it to.

Edited April 20, 2021 by immortalfrieza

[Cranberry]

The way Sophie found out about Batwoman was pretty stupid (no way even a mildly competent superhero would leave that AI in the car, and no way Luke would set it up to record everything), but I'm glad she's not in the dark anymore. We're one step closer to her joining the team and being more useful in general. Next, she'll probably have to keep Tavaroff from getting the DNA results now that she knows she'd be protecting Ryan (and by extension Luke and Mary).

As for Alice... I'm half-expecting a brainwashed/memory-wiped Kate to come back as a villain and team up with her. It would be interesting if Alice ended up being the one to pull her back from the brink.

[possibilities]

On 4/19/2021 at 1:44 AM, Jediknight said:

Black Mask sounded a lot like Jacob.

I thought that last week, too. 

The somehwat competent agent looked to me like Sophie's fiance from season 1. 

Maybe I'm just having trouble registering new characters in my already full brain.

 

--

Ocean is pretty but I don't think the pperson who pedals snakebite is a good guy, I also don't get the romance between him and Alice. It just seems really implausible to me, which I realize is a weird thing to think about a show based on pretty much only implausible events.

[Lantern7]

Sophie comes up on Alex's cell as "Crowphie." I am amused.

Sophie didn't figure out Alex is Batwoman. It was more of a gift that Luke's doodad was still in the car.

On 4/19/2021 at 7:36 AM, sugarbaker design said:

Alice murders another innocent bystander.  Is there a tally of two seasons of Alice's murders?  

But it's usually funny! The patient had it coming for thinking she was a therapist. He got killed before Nigma could mindfuck with him.

On 4/19/2021 at 2:52 AM, thuganomics85 said:

Alice might be nuts, but she's right: Safiyah not having a stash of Desert Rose in a bunker, warehouse, or hell, even a freaking pantry, is just bad planning.  You always need to have a reserve of some kind.  What kind of operation is she running?!

Once again, I thought of Black Panther and the Heart-Shaped Herb. Apparently, Safiyah never watched that movie. I did like Ocean trying to spin it about how Coryana is so well-secluded, that no one would see the Desert Rose, let alone set it on fire. Still lame, though.

[Chicago Redshirt]

14 hours ago, possibilities said:

I thought that last week, too. 

The somehwat competent agent looked to me like Sophie's fiance from season 1. 

Wait, she was married to dude, without telling dude that she had been a serious relationship with a woman, let alone their boss's daughter who was still in their orbit. They totally dropped that plot thread, right? No mention of him for like a season now?

[John Potts]

Bat Fast, Bat Furious? That has to be the stupidest, most visible way of shifting drugs around (you generally don’t want your shipments to be highly visible, even on Gotham’s amazingly clear streets). Though it’s nice to see that the Crows are actually doing something pro-active to combat crime in Gotham. Sure, they’re failing (maybe don’t send the 2nd in Command of the Crows on undercover work? They’re supposed to be unknown!) but at least they’re trying.

Enigma is one cool customer. Then again, being a psychiatrist in Gotham probably means having a knife pulled on you all the time. Though Alice really does seem irrelevant this season (not that Alice should ever have trusted her without some sort of contingency in place).

Sophie’s smart!? Luke, this is the second Batwoman Sophie hasn’t recognised even though it’s somebody she knows well. If he & Ryan didn’t chat so much (seriously, assume your car is bugged at all times when you’re undercover – it would be child’s play for that phone to be automatically recording everything that was said which would give the game away) Sophie wouldn’t have found out.

"Why did you come here alone?" (Black Mask). Very good question! (Presumably the answer was "Limited budget")