Allen v. Farrow

[Gigi G3]

Very interesting discussion. One thing I’ve always wondered about: where did Mia get her money from? She didn’t work that often before her films with Woody Allen. Did she get a lot of child support from Andre Previn? She came from a rich family but I believe there were six kids in her family, so I’m not sure she inherited a lot, but maybe she did. It would cost a fortune to raise all those kids. How did she do it? Are Hollywood salaries that high? 

 

 

Edited February 23, 2021 by Gigi G3

[Growsonwalls]

3 minutes ago, Gigi G3 said:

Very interesting discussion. One thing I’ve always wondered about: where did Mia get her money from? She didn’t work that often before her films with Woody Allen. Did she get a lot of child support from Andre Previn? She came from a rich family but I believe there were six kids in her family, so I’m not sue she inherited a lot, but maybe she did. It would cost a fortune to raise all those kids. How did she do it? Are Hollywood salaries that high? 

Andre Previn was very wealthy and he was the father of I think six of her kids. So that's a lot of child support. She also had a divorce settlement from Frank Sinatra who reportedly supported his ex-wives financially long after their relationships were over. 

[txhorns79]

51 minutes ago, Glade said:

A heavily researched study came out a few years ago debunking this narrative, showing that in fact there were real, independent claims and evidence behind most of the cases now described as part of this 'panic' back then. 

I'm not sure what study is being referenced, but as far as I know, cases like the McMartin one remain examples of how children can be coached into making very grave accusations against their caregivers.  I'm not aware of any new evidence coming to light to suggest the allegations being made against the caregivers in the case were true.  And I don't cite that to claim that all children are liars or that children should never be trusted.  Rather, I was pointing to claims like it in response to a comment about how it is that people could think a parent could manipulate a child into making grave accusations against the other parent. 

Quote

She also had a divorce settlement from Frank Sinatra who reportedly supported his ex-wives financially long after their relationships were over. 

As far as I know, they started divorce proceedings a little more than a year into the marriage.  How much of a settlement could she really have gotten?

[Cheezwiz]

1 hour ago, Dr.OO7 said:

I had to look it up--14, 10 adopted, 4 biological (3 with Previn, one with Allen)

Holy sh**balls! I didn't think it was that many! I thought it was maybe 9 or 10 max! I also didn't realize she had 3 biological kids with Previn - for the longest time I always thought they just had one kid together.

For me, that just reinforces how much of a nutter she must be. Even with $$$ and paid helpers, there's no way you can properly look after that many children in a household - especially when several of them have special needs. There would have been huge gaps in the ages of the kids too, which would explain their differing impressions of their upbringing. Those poor kids.

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Glade said:

Honestly I wish we could watch all of these episodes at once, I was riveted by the first episode, and having to wait and also watch the tired old Allen-based smears of Mia Farrow show up everywhere online is dissapointing.

I completely agree. Based on reviews it seems like the most damning evidence is still to come. The first episode really just fuels the existing narrative in a way that feels a little gross to me and creates an incomplete discussion. Even a two part documentary would have been an improvement. 

[Dr.OO7]

3 hours ago, Glade said:

Now there are two unrelated adults in addition to Mia Farrow who reported witnessing Woody Allen engaging in grooming and/or sexually abusive behaviors, like shoving his face into the naked crotch of a young child.  It's not just Dylan's word vs Allen's

That's what cinched it for me. I was only a kid myself when this story first broke, so I had no idea what to think. The timing couldn't have been worse--Mia would hardly be the first person to tell lies during a bitter divorce/break-up/custody battle.

But numerous other people who had no reason to lie observing this strange behavior for years before the allegations were made is what confirmed it for me.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

18 hours ago, Sir RaiderDuck OMS said:

I was struck at how Woody's autobiography described Mia as "appropriately libidinous." When two Hollywood types date for any length of time, everyone assumes they're sleeping together. Interesting how Woody not only felt it necessary to say it out loud, but also assure us that Mia was horny for him.

That phrase totally rubbed me the wrong way too. It frames him as the guy who was just passively waiting for her to jump on him for sex. There's nothing wrong with women being sexual, but his word choice seems like a deliberate attempt to paint her a certain way.

15 hours ago, candall said:

The most interesting part, to me, revolved around how much leeway Woody Allen was given from everyone because he was--an oddball, a loner, a dedicated anti-kid eccentric, the beloved New York auteur.  "He's not behaving like a parent, but no surprise there!"

I understand some of that.  My parents were separated before I was born so I never knew my non-custodial father in the way of "dad as furniture."  He picked me up for dinner twice a week and we interacted, damn it, whether I felt like it or (I realize now) whether he felt like it.  An only child himself, he didn't have the first idea how dads traditionally interact with their kids.  We had steaks and talked.  Then we watched Mannix and he drove me home.

But trust me on this:  he never gave me any instructions on how to wrap my tongue around his thumb.  

That was the moment Dylan sealed the deal for me.  What a horror for her.  And then to possibly overhear herself described as "being soothed" by that extremely unnatural activity?  I'm proud of her for being able to stand up and walk around like a regular person.

I'm with you. My dad had only one sibling, a sister who was over a decade older, so he basically grew up as an only child. His parents had no affection for each other or anyone that I ever saw. When I was a teenager, I had a discussion with my mom about how my dad wasn't very affectionate with us and she said he was a product of his upbringing. She said that he did the best he could but that he didn't grow up in a family with people hugging and saying, "I love you." As an adult it now makes sense to me that he didn't really know how to be the kind of dad I saw on tv shows. His way of showing love was all the silent sacrifices he made so that we could have dance classes and a house in the suburbs. But for all my dad's lack of parenting skills, he never had me suck his thumb.

14 hours ago, Quilt Fairy said:

Whatever defense Woody Allen might have, apart from the "he said/she said" aspect, has to be almost exclusively famous people saying "The Woody I know wouldn't do that." 

That's the problem with many of the people who think they're defending abusers, rapists, and even murderers with that logic. Just because he didn't do it to YOU doesn't mean he didn't do it to someone else. Even serial killers don't kill everyone who crosses their path. Abusers are often very selective about choosing their victims. They can spot vulnerability a mile away.

13 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

I was wondering about this. I thought I had heard none of her other kids talk to her. I wonder if any of the other siblings will take part in this?

According to this article, "All of Farrow's surviving children with the exception of Soon-Yi, who remains married to Allen, and Moses, an ardent supporter of his father, participated in the documentary — some on camera and some off." 

13 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

And Moses has his own issues he is blind to.  I have read his blog post a few times, and what stands out to me is his vitriol towards Dylan and Ronan.  He hates them.  He insists upon calling Ronan his legal first name (probably because it was Woody's idea). It reads like a child mad that mean old Dylan took away his daddy.  Moses is oblivious to the fact that Woody had to be persuaded by Mia to adopt him along with Dylan.  He almost gets there when he talks about how the custody battle was really over Dylan and Ronan because Moses was always an afterthought.  But, Moses just does not want to believe anything bad about Woody.  

I know that this is probably the least important part of your post, but it really bothers me when people do this. Just because your parents chose a name for you doesn't mean you have to use it for the rest of your life. If your legal name is Robert but you want to go by Bobby, that's your choice. If you want to go by your middle name or a name that appears nowhere on your birth certificate, that is your choice too. I know several people who go by first names that aren't their legal names. One finally had it legally changed after using this name for about 20 years (she put it off for a long time because it's a pain in the ass to go through the whole process and then you have to change your name on EVERYTHING - driver's license, passport, bank accounts, credit cards, professional certifications, etc). It's just the polite thing to comply when someone says, "Please call me ________." Even if they want to be called Princess Consuela Bananahammock, that's what you do. It's really not your place to argue with them about it (are you listening, Crap Bag?).

[Ohiopirate02]

4 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

 

I know that this is probably the least important part of your post, but it really bothers me when people do this. Just because your parents chose a name for you doesn't mean you have to use it for the rest of your life. If your legal name is Robert but you want to go by Bobby, that's your choice. If you want to go by your middle name or a name that appears nowhere on your birth certificate, that is your choice too. I know several people who go by first names that aren't their legal names. One finally had it legally changed after using this name for about 20 years (she put it off for a long time because it's a pain in the ass to go through the whole process and then you have to change your name on EVERYTHING - driver's license, passport, bank accounts, credit cards, professional certifications, etc). It's just the polite thing to comply when someone says, "Please call me ________." Even if they want to be called Princess Consuela Bananahammock, that's what you do. It's really not your place to argue with them about it (are you listening, Crap Bag?).

I view that choice by Moses to be very important and it does a lot of work.  Moses knows what name Ronan prefers, but he chooses not to use it.  It's a power move, and very telling.  It tells me that Moses has issues with Ronan outside of the point he is trying to make.  And he fails in making that point for me because I can see it.  Moses fails his argument in my eyes because he blames his siblings for Mia's actions.  A few tweaks to his blogpost would do a world of good, but he just couldn't help himself.

 

As an aside, I wonder why Ronan has not legally changed his name.  Woody saddled him with an absolutely horrible name for a  (mostly) white guy.  I hate to even type it because it makes me cringe to think Woody thought naming his son after a Negro League pitcher was a good idea.  

[Dr.OO7]

6 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Just because he didn't do it to YOU doesn't mean he didn't do it to someone else. Even serial killers don't kill everyone who crosses their path. Abusers are often very selective about choosing their victims. They can spot vulnerability a mile away.

Exactly. I always say that these guys are sick, not stupid. It's often a very clever tactic of them to abuse one person/kid and not another, so that if/when accusations are made, there's always someone who can/will sincerely insist, "He never did anything to me", forever creating doubt in people's minds, as well as rifts. It's sad, but not surprising at all that to this day, Moses vehemently defends his father and denounces his mother and sister.

The Allen/Farrow brood might be the most infamous example of a family torn apart by such allegations, but they're hardly the first.

Edited February 23, 2021 by Dr.OO7

[peachmangosteen]

I didn't know several of Mia's kids died. This whole thing is so alarming. What a completely traumatic life all those poor kids had.

[absnow54]

11 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I'm not sure what study is being referenced, but as far as I know, cases like the McMartin one remain examples of how children can be coached into making very grave accusations against their caregivers.  I'm not aware of any new evidence coming to light to suggest the allegations being made against the caregivers in the case were true.  And I don't cite that to claim that all children are liars or that children should never be trusted.  Rather, I was pointing to claims like it in response to a comment about how it is that people could think a parent could manipulate a child into making grave accusations against the other parent. 

I'm not overly familiar with these cases, but it appears that in adulthood at least one of the children admitted to making it all up, because they wanted to give the detectives answers they wanted to hear. The fact that Dylan is standing by her statement 30 years later, tells me it isn't a story that Mia coached her on.

[Ohiopirate02]

4 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

I didn't know several of Mia's kids died. This whole thing is so alarming. What a completely traumatic life all those poor kids had.

One of the three had a heart defect.  Mia looked to adopt the "unadoptable" kids.  Which is in a way admirable, but she overextended herself.

1 minute ago, absnow54 said:

I'm not overly familiar with these cases, but it appears that in adulthood at least one of the children admitted to making it all up, because they wanted to give the detectives answers they wanted to hear. The fact that Dylan is standing by her statement 30 years later, tells me it isn't a story that Mia coached her on.

That and Dylan has had years of therapy.  If the abuse was all in her head and Mia coached her, then it would have come out by now.

[peachmangosteen]

9 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Mia looked to adopt the "unadoptable" kids.  Which is in a way admirable, but she overextended herself.

It would be admirable if I believed she actually had altruistic reasons for doing it lol.

I'm learning that Mia definitely is kind of a piece of shit. Still think Woody Allen is an absolute monster though.

[Dr.OO7]

12 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

I'll add that the Larry Nassar stories started appearing all the way back in the 1990's. It wasn't until 2016 or so that this creep finally really got scrutinized. That's a shocking 20 year span where girls were molested and their voices were not heard.

There were rumors and suspicions about Jerry Sandusky long before the allegations came out against him too. There often seems to be an undercurrent of something that people ignore until they can't anymore.

[Growsonwalls]

42 minutes ago, absnow54 said:

I'm not overly familiar with these cases, but it appears that in adulthood at least one of the children admitted to making it all up, because they wanted to give the detectives answers they wanted to hear. The fact that Dylan is standing by her statement 30 years later, tells me it isn't a story that Mia coached her on.

This. Also, insisting that Mia must still be coaching a nearly 40 year old woman to make up a case of sexual abuse is IMO uncomfortable victim blaming. Dylan was examined by psychiatrists and her story has been under scrutiny and met with disgusting denial for years. As far as I'm concerned if she still sticks with the same story after 30 years it happened, period.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

On 2/22/2021 at 7:58 PM, Growsonwalls said:

I'll add that the Larry Nassar stories started appearing all the way back in the 1990's. It wasn't until 2016 or so that this creep finally really got scrutinized. That's a shocking 20 year span where girls were molested and their voices were not heard.

 

18 hours ago, Dr.OO7 said:

There were rumors and suspicions about Jerry Sandusky long before the allegations came out against him too. There often seems to be an undercurrent of something that people ignore until they can't anymore.

Unfortunately, "rumors and suspicions" is usually a euphemism for "victims came forward and the authorities covered it up/told the victims they weren't going to pursue charges/continued to enable the abuser." Too often, people don't want to believe that a man who's good at XYZ could have done something wrong because it creates too much cognitive dissonance about someone they admire. So instead they choose to ignore the victims and brush aside their stories. And in many of these cases, the authorities of the governing body care more about the program's success and bringing in money than protecting abuse victims. When I think about how many children would not have been abused if Nassar or Sandusky had been removed from their positions when the abuse was initially reported years earlier, it just infuriates me.

Edited February 24, 2021 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Dr.OO7]

11 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Too often, people don't want to believe that a man who's good at XYZ could have done something wrong because it creates too much cognitive dissonance about someone they admir

Of course. That's why the other thing these perverts do is create this "Mr. Wonderful" facade so that no one will believe them capable of doing something so vile. If you pair that with them targeting some troublemaker, that doubt is solidified even more.

[EtheltoTillie]

19 hours ago, Dr.OO7 said:

I had to look it up--14, 10 adopted, 4 biological (3 with Previn, one with Allen)

Yikes. From one of the articles I read, it's like the ink was barely dry on one adoption certificate before she was starting another one. I think she even adopted two of them in the midst of all the turmoil.

That's not normal. Loving kids and wanting to give them a good home is one thing, but this many and so frequently and rapidly is bizarre.

This reminds me of the Duggars!  Too many children, and using the older ones to take care of the younger, while the parents get narcissistic satisfaction. Did you notice that Soon-Yi was frequently shown holding younger kids, like a babysitter?  The Duggars used their oldest daughters that way.  It appears that Soon-Yi was relegated to second class citizen, like an au pair, making her ripe for exploitation by Allen. And let’s not forget that the Duggars had their own sex abuse scandal. 

Edited February 23, 2021 by GussieK

[ElectricBoogaloo]

16 hours ago, GussieK said:

This reminds me of the Duggars!  Too many children, and using the older ones to take care of the younger, while the parents get narcissistic satisfaction. Did you notice that Soon-Yi was frequently shown holding younger kids, like a babysitter?  The Duggars used their oldest daughters that way.  It appears that Soon-Yi was relegated to second class citizen, like an au pair, making her ripe for exploitation by Allen. And let’s not forget that the Duggars had their own sex abuse scandal. 

I am the oldest of three kids. I am less than two years older than one sister and nine years older than the other sister. I was like a second mom to my youngest sister. I changed her diapers, helped her with her homework, gave her baths, etc. But that was partly because both of my parents worked, not because they were narcissists (and to be fair to them, I still had plenty of time to hang out with my friends, take dance classes, join student activities, and do normal kid stuff). There were times when I was a teenager when I had to bring my youngest sister along when I went to the mall with my friends or went to the movies with my boyfriend, which I did resent (but I made sure to resent my parents for making me do it, not my sister since it wasn't her fault). Weirdly, my other sister who is less than two years younger never got tasked with taking care of the little one until I left for college and by then the youngest one didn't need as much supervision. To me, watching my little sister was like other chores - it was part of my responsibility to our family unit. It was more enjoyable than vacuuming, yardwork, and washing the dishes (three of my least favorite chores).

But our family didn't have a gaggle of kids. It was just the three of us so most of the time, I didn't mind taking care of my sister. We all still got attention from our parents and we didn't feel lost in the crowd. I know some people who grew up with a lot of siblings and loved it (one of my college friends had five brothers and sisters and said he couldn't imagine having less than four kids because he wanted to recreate that for his kids). As an adult, I can't imagine the chaos of having as many kids as Mia Farrow did. And since she adopted some children with special needs, they probably required even more attention/supervision so I can only imagine how much the older kids were tasked with taking care of their siblings.

Having the older kids watch the younger kids does not automatically mean there is some sort of sexual abuse going on or that there is any other kind of abuse happening in the family. For families where both parents work or there are very busy schedules, it can be a necessity.

Edited February 24, 2021 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Ohiopirate02]

14 hours ago, GussieK said:

This reminds me of the Duggars!  Too many children, and using the older ones to take care of the younger, while the parents get narcissistic satisfaction. Did you notice that Soon-Yi was frequently shown holding younger kids, like a babysitter?  The Duggars used their oldest daughters that way.  It appears that Soon-Yi was relegated to second class citizen, like an au pair, making her ripe for exploitation by Allen. And let’s not forget that the Duggars had their own sex abuse scandal. 

I really don't see any similarities with the Duggars.  Pictures of Mia's older children holding her younger ones is not the same in my book as Michelle Duggar proudly telling a camera how she has abdicated her parental responsibilities to her daughters.  And when Mia found out what Woody did, she immediately went to multiple authorities.  Jim Bob and MIchelle Duggar did the exact opposite.  

[MaggieG]

The sucking thumb story was hard to hear. Disgusting and infuriating. As well as the story Mia's sister told about Woody applying sunscreen.

 

[cmahorror]

I find Dylan very believable and her story matches what people outside the family are saying. I remember when all of this happened and the thing that struck me was the reason they didn't pursue charges against Allen. It wasn't for a lack of evidence, it was because the prosecutor didn't want to put Dylan on the stand.

When I saw the pictures the only thing I thought was that the older kids were holding the younger kids to help them all get in the picture. With that many children, you need to figure out a way to get everyone into frame and holding the little kids not only accomplishes that but also keeps them from running around or even off. I have a ton of pictures of me holding my nephew when he was little and I was not the primary caregiver, we were just close and posing for pictures it was easier.

That being said, I do think Mia probably did lean on the older kids to help with the kids because she took on too much and no one told her to stop. She saw herself as their savior, a Mother Theresa type for bringing these children from difficult circumstances into a better life but, to reference The Good Place, I believe her motivation was corrupt. It seems to me she did it to make herself feel better, to show what a good person she was, without considering the consequences of her actions on not only herself but also the children she already had.

[txhorns79]

8 minutes ago, cmahorror said:

I remember when all of this happened and the thing that struck me was the reason they didn't pursue charges against Allen. It wasn't for a lack of evidence, it was because the prosecutor didn't want to put Dylan on the stand.

To me, that was always the prosecutor's way of having his cake and eating it too.  He essentially gets to pronounce Allen guilty, but doesn't have to go to the trouble of proving it in a court of law.  I viewed what he was really saying as: they did not have the evidence to get a conviction.        

[Growsonwalls]

10 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

To me, that was always the prosecutor's way of having his cake and eating it too.  He essentially gets to pronounce Allen guilty, but doesn't have to go to the trouble of proving it in a court of law.  I viewed what he was really saying as: they did not have the evidence to get a conviction.        

I don;t think so. In the 1990's our perception of sexual abuse was very different. Woody Allen was a famous, influential filmmaker. Memories of his award-winning pictures were much fresher. People viewed sexual abuse as something "private" and a "family matter" and not something to be discussed the way it is in the me-too era. 

As I said, I can picture a 7 year old being influenced to change her testimony but a 35 year old woman? No, I think if she says it happened today it happened. If Dylan were to retract her testimony she could get financial benefits from Woody Allen. The fact that she's sticking to her story makes me believe her 100%.

[txhorns79]

1 minute ago, Growsonwalls said:

I don;t think so. In the 1990's our perception of sexual abuse was very different. Woody Allen was a famous, influential filmmaker. Memories of his award-winning pictures were much fresher. People viewed sexual abuse as something "private" and a "family matter" and not something to be discussed the way it is in the me-too era. 

I don't believe for a moment that a prosecutor, in what was already a very high profile claim, would have just let a suspected celebrity pedophile go if he believed he could have gotten a conviction.  I would agree that issues like sexual harassment and assault were viewed differently in the early to mid 1990s, but there already had been a number of high profile claims in the years leading up to the Allen allegations concerning allegations of molestation and rape regarding children.  There was a whole moral panic around the issue at this time. 

[Growsonwalls]

9 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

I don't believe for a moment that a prosecutor, in what was already a very high profile claim, would have just let a suspected celebrity pedophile go if he believed he could have gotten a conviction.  I would agree that issues like sexual harassment and assault were viewed differently in the early to mid 1990s, but there already had been a number of high profile claims in the years leading up to the Allen allegations concerning allegations of molestation and rape regarding children.  There was a whole moral panic around the issue at this time. 

We saw in the Ohio State sexual abuse cases as well as Larry Nassar, Jerry Sandusky, Harvey Weinstein, Bill Cosby, etc. just how powerful the veil of silence was when it came to influential men. In all of these cases the rumors had flown around for years before these disgusting people were finally apprehended. 

And also this is true: cases of familial molestation tend to be taken less seriously. Back then the idea was children having some sort of relationship with their parents was paramount, even if the parent was abusive, neglectful, or unfit. Women still have a strong tendency to believe their husbands over children -- I can't tell you how many kids I've worked with who were sent into foster care or group homes when they became pregnant ... with their father or stepfather's child. The mothers sided with their husbands instead of their children.

All of these factors make it very believable that the DA would decline to press charges.

[txhorns79]

1 minute ago, Growsonwalls said:

And also this is true: cases of familial molestation tend to be taken less seriously. Back then the idea was children having some sort of relationship with their parents was paramount, even if the parent was abusive, neglectful, or unfit. Women still have a strong tendency to believe their husbands over children -- I can't tell you how many kids I've worked with who were sent into foster care or group homes when they became pregnant ... with their father or stepfather's child. The mothers sided with their husbands instead of their children.

All of these factors make it very believable that the DA would decline to press charges.

I was alive during the Allen Farrow scandal of the 90s.  It was a very big deal at the time.  There were court proceedings concerning it.  It was taken very seriously, as you can tell from this series.  As I said, I don't believe for even a moment the prosecutor would have declined to press charges if he felt he could have gotten a conviction.

[Growsonwalls]

10 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

I was alive during the Allen Farrow scandal of the 90s.  It was a very big deal at the time.  There were court proceedings concerning it.  It was taken very seriously, as you can tell from this series.  As I said, I don't believe for even a moment the prosecutor would have declined to press charges if he felt he could have gotten a conviction.

I was alive too. The SoonYi situation was what got more ink. 

And even if the DA felt as if he couldn't get a conviction it doesn't mean Allen is innocent. It's incredibly hard to get guilty convictions for famous men accused of sexual crimes.  See: Kobe Bryant, Roman Polanski, and so on.

In my eyes he's guilty as sin. Period. It's not the job of outsiders to tell a sexual abuse victim she's lying.

Edited February 24, 2021 by Growsonwalls

[txhorns79]

11 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

And even if the DA felt as if he couldn't get a conviction it doesn't mean Allen is innocent. It's incredibly hard to get guilty convictions for famous men accused of sexual crimes.  See: Kobe Bryant, Roman Polanski, and so on.

I did not claim a lack of a conviction meant Allen was innocent.  My point was that I believe the prosecutor could not get a conviction, but rather than admit to it, he tried to have it both ways.  I think with Roman Polanski, he pled guilty, but he fled before sentencing because he was afraid the sentence would end up being harsher than what was negotiated. 

[Ohiopirate02]

I see no issue with the prosecutor choosing Dylan's peace of mind over a trial.  He saw that in order to get a conviction, he would have to put Dylan on the witness stand.  There was not enough evidence without her testimony to convict.  Putting a child on the stand is a difficult decision for every prosecutor because then the defense gets to cross examine the victim.  

Any time charges are dropped in a rape or child sexual abuse case, it does not automatically mean the perpetrator is innocent or the victim is lying.  The American justice system is extremely flawed in this respect.  Forcing victims to withstand cross-examinations from defense lawyers hellbent on proving their client's innocence is not always the best course of action.  

Edited February 24, 2021 by Ohiopirate02

[Growsonwalls]

8 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I see no issue with the prosecutor choosing Dylan's peace of mind over a trial.  He saw that in order to get a conviction, he would have to put Dylan on the witness stand.  There was not enough evidence without her testimony to convict.  Putting a child on the stand is a difficult decision for every prosecutor because then the defense gets to cross examine the victim.  

Any time charges are dropped in a rape or child sexual abuse case, it does not automatically mean the perpetrator is innocent.  The American justice system is extremely flawed in this respect.  Forcing victims to withstand cross-examinations from defense lawyers hellbent on proving their client's innocence is not always the best course of action.  

Also it shielded her from accusations she was "precocious" which was a common defense at the time -- that kids were overly, inappropriately sexual and somehow "seduced" adults. I can't believe this was ever an attitude but it was. 

The early 90s were a time when Ann Landers columns still said wives should take their husband's side no matter what in family matters because marriage was a holy sacrament and kids would leave the nest at 18 anyway.

[txhorns79]

2 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Any time charges are dropped in a rape or child sexual abuse case, it does not automatically mean the perpetrator is innocent.  The American justice system is extremely flawed in this respect.  Forcing victims to withstand cross-examinations from defense lawyers hellbent on proving their client's innocence is not always the best course of action.  

As far as I know, there were no charges brought in this matter.  I also do realize a person could be guilty as to an action, even if they are not convicted.  As to our justice system, you would not want a system where a person could make allegations against you, and not have to be subject to cross examination as to those allegations.  Think of places like China or Russia where people can be put on trial based on charges they aren't ever given the opportunity to adequately contest.            

[hoodooznoodooz]

On 2/22/2021 at 12:08 AM, Quilt Fairy said:

Apropos of nothing, Dylan Farrow really looks like Carrie Fisher to me. 

She also looks like Vanessa Bayer.

[ifionlyknew]

1 hour ago, Growsonwalls said:

The SoonYi situation was what got more ink. 

This is true.  I remember all the details of that. It was covered in every magazine and on every news show.  I remember very little about the allegations against Allen regarding Dylan. What little I do remember was often characterized as Mia being a scorned woman who was trying to punish Woody.

[txhorns79]

4 minutes ago, ifionlyknew said:

I remember very little about the allegations against Allen regarding Dylan.

Just for comparison sake, I did a search of the NY Times Archives from 1993/1994, and there are twenty or more stories about the allegations concerning Dylan. 

[Growsonwalls]

I find it revealing that Woody Allen's response to this documentary was to call it "shoddy," as if he's critiquing it as a film work. 

And Andrea Peyser is human garbage:

https://nypost.com/2021/02/22/put-me-on-team-woody-mia-farrow-is-full-of-it/

This is why victims of sexual abuse don't come forward. The slut shaming and accusations of lying are absolutely disgusting.

[Ohiopirate02]

34 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

I find it revealing that Woody Allen's response to this documentary was to call it "shoddy," as if he's critiquing it as a film work. 

And Andrea Peyser is human garbage:

https://nypost.com/2021/02/22/put-me-on-team-woody-mia-farrow-is-full-of-it/

This is why victims of sexual abuse don't come forward. The slut shaming and accusations of lying are absolutely disgusting.

I attempted to read that but had to give up.  I just cannot read another take on this family saga that insists upon taking away all of Dylan's agency.  Dylan is an adult, a published author, a wife and mother who according to the filmmakers wanted to do this project over Mia's objections.  But no, according to this author, Mia is still the woman scorned using Dylan to punish Woody.

[Ohiopirate02]

I stumbled upon this nice profile of Dylan

https://www.elle.com/culture/a35453412/dylan-farrow-would-like-to-reintroduce-herself/

[peachmangosteen]

4 hours ago, ifionlyknew said:

This is true.  I remember all the details of that. It was covered in every magazine and on every news show.  I remember very little about the allegations against Allen regarding Dylan. What little I do remember was often characterized as Mia being a scorned woman who was trying to punish Woody.

Same. I always knew about the Soon Yi thing but I didn't even know he molested Dylan until like fairly recently and then what I mostly heard was how Woody Allen said it was all because Mia is a hateful bitch or whatever. But I also never gave a shit about Woody Allen so I just never really knew anything about him and never sought out anything about him.

[DanaK]

I’ve watched about 30 minutes of Episode 1 so far and I have 2 things to note given the discussion. When Woody indicated he wanted a White girl to adopt, it seemed to me he preferred to be a father to a healthy White girl to the previous disabled children of Color that Mia had adopted. Also, Mia wanted a baby with Woody, and he was ok with that as long as he could be as uninvolved in their lives as he wanted, and Mia agreed to that! What a couple of selfish pricks. 

Also, a little early, but in regards to Soon-Yi, I remember being disgusted by her and Woody’s relationship. I had the impression at the time that Woody thought that since she was adopted by Mia, it wasn’t a real family relationship. As an adoptee myself, that pissed me off, plus Woody was a father figure to the kids in general so to take up with Soon-Yi and with her young age, it was very wrong

Edited February 25, 2021 by DanaK

[Growsonwalls]

One thing that surprised me to find out was that Soon Yi and Allen adopted two kids. Considering Moses considers all adoption to be child abuse I wonder how family dinners are ... 

[Cheezwiz]

15 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

One thing that surprised me to find out was that Soon Yi and Allen adopted two kids.

Yeah, I had no idea that they had adopted and raised two daughters together ((shudder)). I wonder how long  it will be before one of them writes a tell-all.

[EtheltoTillie]

14 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

Same. I always knew about the Soon Yi thing but I didn't even know he molested Dylan until like fairly recently and then what I mostly heard was how Woody Allen said it was all because Mia is a hateful bitch or whatever. But I also never gave a shit about Woody Allen so I just never really knew anything about him and never sought out anything about him.

I live in NYC, and at the time, the Dylan story was very heavily publicized on local TV and in local tabloids.  You couldn't escape it.  I wonder if you live elsewhere and the story was less central. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

From 2018: Hollywood Reporter interview with Babi Christina Engelhardt, the 16 year old high school student who began sleeping with Woody Allen when he was 41 years old

Apparently this was the inspiration for his movie Manhattan where his character is a 42 year old man who sleeps with a 17 year old girl. Stacey Nulkin, another 17 year high school student he dated when he was 42 (he cast her in Annie Hall when she was 16) said the character in Manhattan is also based on her. When Christina's interview came out, Woody declined to comment but apparently in his book he mentioned that he "jumped into the percales" with Stacey.

In 2015, Mariel Hemingway discussed Woody Allen pursuing her (this was after she starred as his teenage girlfriend in Manhattan at the age of 17). When this anecdote occurred, he was 44:

Quote

Once she turned 18, Allen flew out to her parents’ home in Idaho and repeatedly asked her to go to Paris with him. Hemingway told her parents “that I didn’t know what the [sleeping] arrangement was going to be, that I wasn’t sure if I was even going to have my own room. Woody hadn’t said that. He hadn’t even hinted it. But I wanted them to put their foot down. They didn’t.” In fact, though Allen was in his mid-forties at the time, “They kept lightly encouraging me.” (Allen left Idaho via private jet the next morning after Hemingway informed him if she wasn’t getting her own room, she couldn’t go with him.)

 

[ifionlyknew]

1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

From 2018: Hollywood Reporter interview with Babi Christina Engelhardt, the 16 year old high school student who began sleeping with Woody Allen when he was 41 years old

Apparently this was the inspiration for his movie Manhattan where his character is a 42 year old man who sleeps with a 17 year old girl. Stacey Nulkin, another 17 year high school student he dated when he was 42 (he cast her in Annie Hall when she was 16) said the character in Manhattan is also based on her. When Christina's interview came out, Woody declined to comment but apparently in his book he mentioned that he "jumped into the percales" with Stacey.

In 2015, Mariel Hemingway discussed Woody Allen pursuing her (this was after she starred as his teenage girlfriend in Manhattan at the age of 17). When this anecdote occurred, he was 44:

 

This is what has always bothered me about Woody Allen.  Even if he  wasn't guilty of molesting Dylan (which I think he is guilty as hell) he still had a thing for teenage girls.  One of whom was his girlfriend's daughter.   I had only seen one Allen film at that point but after that I made it a point to never see another one.   A list stars still continued to work with him.  I guess I shouldn't be surprised.  Roman Polanski won an Oscar after he was accused of rape.

[Ohiopirate02]

11 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

One thing that surprised me to find out was that Soon Yi and Allen adopted two kids. Considering Moses considers all adoption to be child abuse I wonder how family dinners are ... 

I'm sure he rationalizes it as Soon-Yi is adopted herself so she (and only she) truly understands and can adopt successfully.  And he also can use his education to help facilitate this.  If Soon-Yi and Woody adopted from Korea, then it would not be a fully transracial adoption which is what I think Moses is really against.  

Honestly, international transracial adoptions are fraught with issues.  They can easily go wrong for the adopted child when Mom and Dad are white and expect the child to conform.  Then you add in any medical issues and trauma on the child's part, and some parents just cannot do it.  

[Rlb8031]

On 2/23/2021 at 10:50 AM, peachmangosteen said:

I didn't know several of Mia's kids died. This whole thing is so alarming. What a completely traumatic life all those poor kids had.

It may not have been as traumatic as it sounds. It looks like one one died from suicide, the other two died as the result of medical issues (one at 19 and the other at 35).  That's not necessarily surprising when some of the kids had significant health issues.

[peachmangosteen]

1 hour ago, Rlb8031 said:

It may not have been as traumatic as it sounds. It looks like one one died from suicide, the other two died as the result of medical issues (one at 19 and the other at 35).  That's not necessarily surprising when some of the kids had significant health issues.

It's all tragic as hell to me.

[sistermagpie]

On 2/24/2021 at 2:24 PM, ifionlyknew said:

This is true.  I remember all the details of that. It was covered in every magazine and on every news show.  I remember very little about the allegations against Allen regarding Dylan. What little I do remember was often characterized as Mia being a scorned woman who was trying to punish Woody.

 

14 hours ago, GussieK said:

I live in NYC, and at the time, the Dylan story was very heavily publicized on local TV and in local tabloids.  You couldn't escape it.  I wonder if you live elsewhere and the story was less central. 

I was in NYC and for some reason I was all over this story. The main thing I remember is an interview that Allen gave where he made it clear that he was basically mildly annoyed at best at the idea he was expected to consider anyone else's feelings or respect anyone else when he wanted something. He blatantly lied and contradicted himself by saying whatever was needed in the moment--like claiming that his relationship with Soon-Yi was just fine, but that he was planning on just keeping it a secret until he got caught. And how he took porny pictures of her because she wanted to be a model and he was helping her. Because yeah, any famous Hollywood director knows that you become a model by taking pictures of yourself naked and spread legged. 

And yes, Allen did flat-out say that they weren't a family, just a "collection of children." Which he wasn't just saying to describe Mia seeming to adopt too many children. He was rejecting the idea that their relationships with each other could be described as a family.

I also remember anjoying the smackdown the judge gave him at the custody hearing where he claimed he was such a better parent than Mia, but then didn't know the slightest thing about the children's lives.  

I've seen the Wild Man Blues documentary about his jazz tour in Europe and in a way, it seems he got a clue in realizing that the marriage he has now is the kind of relationship that suits him. In that movie he travels around with his sister and Soon-Yi and he's the center of attention and she seems to enjoy her role as the person who arranges laundry at the hotel etc. and is important via her relationship to him. This is not a guy who is going to adjust himself to anyone else. 

Re: that quote above, I don't believe for a second he really sees Soon-Yi as smart compared to himself, like as if he was attracted to her as an equal. That's not a knock on her intelligence--he obviously considers himself quite sophisticated and there was nothing about her as a college student that was wowwing him on that front. Even in Wild Man Blues he suggests she go see Annie Hall (which she hadn't yet seen) with some of her "teenage twitty friends"--iow, how he'd no doubt think of her if he had had to marry one of them instead. (Soon-YI says she loves Manhattan in the same clip.)

Oh, and I was annoyed when he was reading from his book and of course had to say that he found Soon-Yi "sullen" as a kid. It felt like an obligatory hint that no of course he wasn't attracted to her as a child, but also a way of subtly negging her now. A bit like that other clip referenced where he compliments her by saying that she had potential that he could bring out.

Oh, and also could have done without the film critics explaining to me how we all relate to Woody Allen movies. I've seen plenty of them and grew up liking a lot of them. I didn't like them because I related to Woody. Playing cello in a marching band is just funny.

Edited February 26, 2021 by sistermagpie

[MsTree]

15 hours ago, ifionlyknew said:

he still had a thing for teenage girls.  One of whom was his girlfriend's daughter.   I had only seen one Allen film at that point but after that I made it a point to never see another one.   A list stars still continued to work with him.  I guess I shouldn't be surprised.  Roman Polanski won an Oscar after he was accused of rape.

...and Michael Jackson continued his lucrative music career after being accused of molesting pre-teen boys....