Allen v. Farrow

[ifionlyknew]

26 minutes ago, MaggieG said:

The excerpts from his book made it clear that he considered the relationship with Soon-Yi a fling and I don't think he ever would have married her if they weren't found out. 

Makes me wonder if he has been a faithful husband. Or has there been other young women after Soon Yi.

[sistermagpie]

16 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

I feel like Mia got stuck in that gamine persona somewhere early in life and stuck to it. I wonder if her first serious relationship being a man so much older (Frank Sinatra) and her second husband also being much older (Andre Previn) AND her third partner being a famous director made her think her spacey, girlish mannerisms were somehow cute.

It was jarring seeing her in Broadway Danny Rose with her acting so differently. I don't think I ever saw that one.

[Guest]

13 hours ago, Rlb8031 said:

Well, only two of the adults in the house worked for Mia - the babysitter and the French tutor. The other girl (who was the one who actually saw Woody and Dylan) was the neighbors babysitter who walked in on them. She was their watching the neighbor's two (or three??) kids. So you have two adults (only one of whom stated that she was told to keep an eye on Woody and Dylan) watching Mia's eight and another adult watching 2-3 other kids. 

Mia’s babysitter and tutor would have only have been responsible for two or three kids. Six of Mia’s kids were 17 or older at that point. The two who she had recently adopted went shopping with Mia. Moses was 14. Only Dylan (7) and Ronan (5) would have needed to be closely supervised. 

[carrps]

On 3/1/2021 at 1:05 PM, cmahorror said:

I have never been a big fan of Allen's movie, there was just something off about the writing that never really connected with me, but one film I did like was Manhattan Murder Mystery. No one really talks about this film but it was during the time of the child custody suit. 

I really like this movie, too. It shows a very real side of Manhattan (with a very unreal plot) with great actors who worked well together. I loved Alan Alda's character.

The only thing I didn't like? Woody. He's a terrible actor. There was a slapsticky scene where he was fumbling with a cassette tape -- bouncing it around in his hands and pulling all the tape out of the cassette -- that's totatly cringe-makingly bad and unfunny.

Oh, and I absolutely hated Blue Jasmine. It was like watching someone get tortured. I felt a lot of misogyny wafting off that stinker.

[DangerousMinds]

24 minutes ago, carrps said:

I really like this movie, too. It shows a very real side of Manhattan (with a very unreal plot) with great actors who worked well together. I loved Alan Alda's character.

The only thing I didn't like? Woody. He's a terrible actor. There was a slapsticky scene where he was fumbling with a cassette tape -- bouncing it around in his hands and pulling all the tape out of the cassette -- that's totatly cringe-makingly bad and unfunny.

Oh, and I absolutely hated Blue Jasmine. It was like watching someone get tortured. I felt a lot of misogyny wafting off that stinker.

I loved Blue Jasmine but I know I would feel differently about it now. I even enjoyed Manhattan when I saw it many  year ago, but even seeing clips from it now makes me cringe. 

[realityplease]

Mia naive???  After her marriage to Sinatra was over, and still a mere age 23, Mia became pregnant by Andre Previn while Andre was still married to Dory Previn.  Andre and Dory divorced.  Dory wrote the song "Beware of Young Girls" about Mia.   

[aghst]

So anyone read The Guardian article which was critical of this mini-series doc?

[Guest]

13 hours ago, aghst said:

So anyone read The Guardian article which was critical of this mini-series doc?

I have. I felt like the writers obvious bias undermined the point about the documentary being biased. There has never been an unbiased telling of this story. This documentary is clearly biased but I wouldn’t say that it is “pure PR”. Mia and others involved do not come across in a good light and they have omitted or underemphasized some details that make Woody look worse. 

Edited March 6, 2021 by Guest

[MsTree]

11 hours ago, realityplease said:

Mia naive???  After her marriage to Sinatra was over, and still a mere age 23, Mia became pregnant by Andre Previn while Andre was still married to Dory Previn.  Andre and Dory divorced.  Dory wrote the song "Beware of Young Girls" about Mia.   

Right...she sounds more manipulative to me than naive.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

S1.E3

Quote

In 1992 while the media runs with Woody's narrative that Mia is unfit, authorities in two jurisdictions launch separate investigations.

Promo:

Original air date: 3/7/21

Edited March 9, 2021 by ElectricBoogaloo

[DangerousMinds]

14 hours ago, MsTree said:

Right...she sounds more manipulative to me than naive.

I see your point, but HE was the older man and the one who took marriage vows. So who knows what the dynamics were really like.

[Quilt Fairy]

Regarding the age difference in many of both Mia and Woody's relationships, I was recently reminded of the classic story of a May-December romance: Vladimir Nobokov's Lolita.  There was a long opinion piece in the New York Times by actress Emily Mortimer on whether it would even be published today, and whether it would garner the rave reviews it did back in 1959.

Edited March 7, 2021 by Quilt Fairy

[Growsonwalls]

I think Mia was manipulative. Also had very poor judgment about how much care she could really give all these special-needs children. I think that played right into Woody's hands. When the mother figure is absent/spacey/self-absorbed it's easier to groom victims. 

[Whimsy]

On 3/1/2021 at 3:10 PM, Sir RaiderDuck OMS said:

I don't think that was meant to excuse Woody; it meant that even in Woody's autobiography, he comes off as horribly self-centered. Everything is discussed in terms of how it affects him. I have another example just from my reading today: on Ronan Farrow's Wikipedia page, they have a quote from Woody discussing the possibility that Ronan could actually be Frank Sinatra's biological son (Mia has admitted this could be the case, as she had the occasional one-nighter with Frank until he died). Allen is quoted as saying "I paid for child support for him for his whole childhood, and I don't think that's very fair if he's not mine." Ponder that if you will: A man is told his adult son might actually be another man's, and his reaction is to whine about the unfairness towards his bank account. Words fail me.

I had read this a long time ago but completely forgot, but hearing it again and seeing an adult Ronan, HOW is is still even in contention?  He looks almost exactly like Frank Sinatra!  His eyes and mouth is EXACTLY the same! 

On 3/1/2021 at 4:05 PM, cmahorror said:

Dylan is a brave woman and her ability to openly discuss this horrible incident is truly remarkable. She refuses to be shamed about what happened to her or take the blame for what he did to her. The story about the spaghetti dinner and learning what would happen to her if she said no helped us understand the feelings of a child who is trying to protect herself from harm by not fighting back makes a lot of sense. Her focus on her brother's train, trying to ignore what he was doing to her, in essence disassociating from the abuse is a common defense mechanism of abused children. She should be proud of what she has accomplished and her ability to create a stable life as a published author with her husband and daughter.

This detail is what gutted me. I was also molested at a very young age and I can remember just focusing on something else in the room while it was happening. 

On 3/2/2021 at 9:46 AM, MaggieG said:

I've never watched Manhattan but I did watch Whatever Works where Larry David's character marries Evan Rachel Woods's character. Which....ick. I did actually like Match Point.

Episode 2 was hard to watch but I learned some things I didn't know before. I had no idea Mia and Woody made 13 films together. Also Mia having to finish Husbands and Wives with Woody while going through this whole ordeal. That must have been terrible for her. I thought the details provided about how he treated her regarding her career where interesting. Basically telling her "you're old, nobody will hire you except me." Thus giving him more control over her. Family friend Priscilla also was invited to his screening room. The excerpts from his book made it clear that he considered the relationship with Soon-Yi a fling and I don't think he ever would have married her if they weren't found out. 

The videos with Dylan are heartbreaking. 

On a shallow note, Mia was a stunner when she was younger. 

I learned a LOT I didn’t know before and all I can say is that Woody Allen is a disgusting piece of shit. 

On 3/2/2021 at 10:14 AM, ifionlyknew said:

Makes me wonder if he has been a faithful husband. Or has there been other young women after Soon Yi.

Their two adopted daughters look almost identical to Dylan and Soon Yi. I shudder to think what he’s done to them....

[ElectricBoogaloo]

5 hours ago, Quilt Fairy said:

Regarding the age difference in many of both Mia and Woody's relationships, I was recently reminded of the classic story of a May-December romance: Vladimir Nobokov's Lolita.  There was a long opinion piece in the New York Times by actress Emily Mortimer on whether it would even be published today, and whether it would garner the rave reviews it did back in 1959.

I wouldn't classify Humbert and Lolita as a romance. He was a 37 year old adult man who was so obsessed with a 12 year old girl that he was willing to marry her mother just so he could be near her. He was an adult man who drugged a 12 year old girl so he wouldn't feel guilty about raping her. He was an adult man who then offered a 12 year old girl various bribes so that she would have sex with him.

None of that says romance to me. That was an adult man sexually abusing a child.

[Pepper Mostly]

10 hours ago, Whimsy said:

had read this a long time ago but completely forgot, but hearing it again and seeing an adult Ronan, HOW is is still even in contention?  He looks almost exactly like Frank Sinatra!  His eyes and mouth is EXACTLY the same! 

I think Ronan looks just like Mia. And I think she "admits" to the occasional romp with Sinatra because she simply cannot bear the truth, that Ronan is Woody's child. She loves her son but she fucking hates Woody's guts. If she tells herself often enough that maybe Ronan's not Woody's, she can fool herself. 

[Dr.OO7]

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2021/03/woody-allen-dylan-farrow-and-the-road-to-a-reckoning/amp

[sistermagpie]

9 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I wouldn't classify Humbert and Lolita as a romance. He was a 37 year old adult man who was so obsessed with a 12 year old girl that he was willing to marry her mother just so he could be near her. He was an adult man who drugged a 12 year old girl so he wouldn't feel guilty about raping her. He was an adult man who then offered a 12 year old girl various bribes so that she would have sex with him.

None of that says romance to me. That was an adult man sexually abusing a child.

I remember JK Rowling referring it to a romance once and I never forgot it. I mean, yipes.

2 hours ago, Pepper Mostly said:

I think Ronan looks just like Mia. And I think she "admits" to the occasional romp with Sinatra because she simply cannot bear the truth, that Ronan is Woody's child. She loves her son but she fucking hates Woody's guts. If she tells herself often enough that maybe Ronan's not Woody's, she can fool herself. 

I always thought that too, that he got lucky in looking only like her and not like Allen at all. But I can see a definite possible resemblance to Sinatra too--with absolutely nothing of Woody Allen at all. I think that's why people have come to consider it as truth now. He looks Mia, but also a like Sinatra with red hair.

34 minutes ago, Dr.OO7 said:

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2021/03/woody-allen-dylan-farrow-and-the-road-to-a-reckoning/amp

Wow, very interesting how it notes how Mia was also having to constantly work to pay all those legal bills and the times Allen tried and failed to have ordinary people fired or disbarred for not being on his side, while the only professionals who allegedly "clear him" destroyed their notes and are forbidden to actually testify. 

[Dr.OO7]

9 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I wouldn't classify Humbert and Lolita as a romance. He was a 37 year old adult man who was so obsessed with a 12 year old girl that he was willing to marry her mother just so he could be near her. He was an adult man who drugged a 12 year old girl so he wouldn't feel guilty about raping her. He was an adult man who then offered a 12 year old girl various bribes so that she would have sex with him.

None of that says romance to me. That was an adult man sexually abusing a child.

Disgusting. That reminds me of a thoroughly sickening Danielle Steel subplot in the book "Family Album", where a 49 year old man falls in love with his daughter's 15 year old best friend and they consummate the relationship while she's still underage (or rather, he repeatedly molests and statutorily rapes her) and they marry as soon as she turns 18. 

[snickers]

On 3/5/2021 at 2:33 PM, carrps said:

Oh, and I absolutely hated Blue Jasmine. It was like watching someone get tortured. I felt a lot of misogyny wafting off that stinker.

I actually thought Blue Jasmine was one of Allen's better movies......

Not that i've seen a ton of them....

 

And Ronan as Frank Sinatra's son? I think he looks a lot like Mia, but...anything is possible in this crazy real life tale. I"m hooked on this show.

[Dr.OO7]

32 minutes ago, snickers said:

I actually thought Blue Jasmine was one of Allen's better movies......

I see it now as referencing the whole scandal--an incensed wife seeking vengeance on her husband for dumping her for an 18 year old girl by calling the FBI on him.

Ironically, she was telling the truth when she reported him and the husband is looked at as a bad guy for banging a teenager when he himself is 50-something. 

[Cheezwiz]

Just watched the most recent episode.

Good grief. The Yale New Haven study that all of Allen's defenders love to cite was clearly compromised big-time, as was the parallel NY investigation. That poor case-worker who got railroaded - I'm glad he successfully fought to get his job back.

This is the kind of detail I didn't know about and am finding interesting to watch.

Allen sounded so utterly evil in his taped phone conversations. As much as I'm not a fan of Mia, I've got to hand it to her for holding her own with him in those conversations. There's no way I could have maintained my composure on the phone like that - any communication would have had to have been through lawyers at that point.

I do remember Allen getting thoroughly dragged by the judge when he attempted  to get custody, so at least that's something. 

 

 

[Growsonwalls]

I think Ronan looks just like Mia. Frank has a much squarer, harder look. 

[Dr.OO7]

That Mia/Woody conversation at the beginning was wrenching.

 

[Cheezwiz]

1 hour ago, Growsonwalls said:

I think Ronan looks just like Mia. Frank has a much squarer, harder look. 

Yeah, he definitely inherited Mia's genes. Interestingly, Frank & Mia shared very similar features, so  looking at photos of Ronan beside Frank is striking regardless of actual parentage.

[cpcathy]

Sometimes I see Woody in Ronan’s baby photos, then when I see him interviewed, all I see is Frank. It’s very weird.

[DiabLOL]

Mia’s father looked a lot like Frank, I thought. I was so shocked when they showed his picture that I actually gasped out loud.

 

ETA I nevertheless believe Ronan is Frank’s kid. Not just because of his face but also his body and body language and the very way he moves is pure Frank.

Edited March 8, 2021 by DiabLOL

[Irlandesa]

It's an interesting mystery that we're probably never going to solve because I believe Ronan has said he's not interested in a DNA test.  If he's Frank's, that would mean Woody doesn't have any biological children, right? Mia did say she and Woody had difficulty conceiving at first which is why they adopted Dylan.

I caught up on this today and I have so much to say and yet nothing to say.

[Glade]

Powerful episode. There was absolutely something wrong with the Yale study, which resulted in them participating in Woody's farce of a PR strategy of standing outside their doors claiming he had been exonerated completely (which reminds me of Michael Jackson's crazed supporters.)  But they destroyed all of their notes and one of the social workers in their report seems to agree with every other expert in believing Dylan and seeing no signs of coaching, even going so far as to say they thought Dylan had more to disclose.   I really felt for Dylan when she was discussing how she related to the vulnerable child on that videotape.  

Woody Allen clearly had every advantage to widely broadcast 'his side' all over the media who gleefully ate it up.  And indeed, his strategy I see reflected in how Kevin Spacey tried to spin away Anthony Rapp's story of being assaulted at 14 by using that moment to come out publicly as gay.

Edited March 8, 2021 by Glade

[Irlandesa]

Oh I know what I want to say, some of the strangest stuff was things that came directly from Woody's mouth.  Talking about how his virginal stepdaughter needed to "ripen?"  Ick. Or the "I'm 57, if I wanted to be a pedophile, I had many opportunities before now."  That's a strange defense.  So strange.

[CynicalGirl]

4 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

I think Ronan looks just like Mia. Frank has a much squarer, harder look. 

 

3 hours ago, DiabLOL said:

Mia’s father looked a lot like Frank, I thought. I was so shocked when they showed his picture that I actually gasped out loud.

 

ETA I nevertheless believe Ronan is Frank’s kid. Not just because of his face but also his body and body language and the very way he moves is pure Frank.

 

2 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

It's an interesting mystery that we're probably never going to solve because I believe Ronan has said he's not interested in a DNA test.  If he's Frank's, that would mean Woody doesn't have any biological children, right? Mia did say she and Woody had difficulty conceiving at first which is why they adopted Dylan.

I caught up on this today and I have so much to say and yet nothing to say.

I agree Ronan looks like Mia's father, and Mia's father looks a lot like Frank, with more refined features. Not sure what that says about Mia, who married a man old enough to be her father who looked amazingly like her deceased father.

I don't believe Ronan is Frank's son though, all that posturing about how Ronan doesn't want a DNA test, oh please. I think Ronan and Mia would jump at the chance to prove he's not Woody's son, but they know they can't. They just enjoy poking at Woody with those allegations.

[txhorns79]

6 hours ago, CynicalGirl said:

I don't believe Ronan is Frank's son though, all that posturing about how Ronan doesn't want a DNA test, oh please. I think Ronan and Mia would jump at the chance to prove he's not Woody's son, but they know they can't. They just enjoy poking at Woody with those allegations.

I think the Sinatra family has said there is no real chance Ronan is Frank's son.  I want to say that one of Frank's daughters even stated that Frank had a vasectomy long before Ronan would have been conceived.    

[cpcathy]

9 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

Oh I know what I want to say, some of the strangest stuff was things that came directly from Woody's mouth.  Talking about how his virginal stepdaughter needed to "ripen?"  Ick. Or the "I'm 57, if I wanted to be a pedophile, I had many opportunities before now."  That's a strange defense.  So strange.

His words alone would have made me suspicious if I already didn’t think he guilty as sin. So many odd, disturbing  comments. 

[Dr.OO7]

43 minutes ago, cpcathy said:

His words alone would have made me suspicious if I already didn’t think he guilty as sin. So many odd, disturbing  comments. 

It's bizarre how no matter what "Mr. Wonderful" facade they create, these creeps always slip up say or do something that makes someone give them the side eye.

[sistermagpie]

11 hours ago, Dr.OO7 said:

That Mia/Woody conversation at the beginning was wrenching.

 

Agreed. One thing that really stuck out for me was when she was telling him not to try for custody etc. and she said, "I don't deserve this."

It's so obvious, but I never thought about it that starkly before, how much she didn't deserve it. I can't judge her completely as a person or anything, but this guy really did treat her so badly and cause her so much pain and then on top of that felt nothing about honestly trying to take her children away--one of whom he had abused--just because it was a good way to defend himself. And this after smearing her as an unfit mother in the press already, an impression that has never gone away. Even when people are on her side they usually pre-emptively admit that she's a terrible parent or crazy or whatever. Like you're not objective if you don't say that first. And what did she ever do to the guy? Nothing except object when he had sex with her children. That's it.

In the documentary where he's in Europe you see him doing that thing he does with her one the phone too, where he leans into his "helpless neurotic" persona to get what he wants. Like here he says of course he's not taping her because he can't work that sort of technical stuff, then hops onto another call and brags that he's taping her, fool that she is. 

Then he seems to slip into full villainy with his whole "well, you'll have your chance to prove it" when she's talking about how they both know she's not unfit and how "everything will come out in time" instead of just telling her where he was those 20 minutes nobody could find him with Dylan. Of course it's really because he was exactly where Dylan said he was but it's such a supervillain line.

[Irlandesa]

53 minutes ago, cpcathy said:

His words alone would have made me suspicious if I already didn’t think he guilty as sin. So many odd, disturbing  comments. 

And Dylan saying what Woody told her "I need to do this" sounded like something he would say.  That, and the promises of taking her to Paris.  Isn't that where he wanted to take Mariel Hemingway? He might be a "genius" but, as we saw with his script notes, he has his 18-year-old 20-year-old 18 year old young woman...the man has his patterns. 

[sistermagpie]

21 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

And Dylan saying what Woody told her "I need to do this" sounded like something he would say.  That, and the promises of taking her to Paris.  Isn't that where he wanted to take Mariel Hemingway? He might be a "genius" but, as we saw with his script notes, he has his 18-year-old 20-year-old 18 year old young woman...the man has his patterns. 

Yeah, gotta say that her reports of what he actually said sounded so authentic. The "I have to do this" part, but also that she described the start about Paris as "he was saying weird things" before repeating it.

[hoodooznoodooz]

Off-topic: her name was Eliza, at one point, no? Why did they start calling her Dylan?

[ifionlyknew]

54 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

It's so obvious, but I never thought about it that starkly before, how much she didn't deserve it. I can't judge her completely as a person or anything, but this guy really did treat her so badly and cause her so much pain and then on top of that felt nothing about honestly trying to take her children away--one of whom he had abused--just because it was a good way to defend himself. And this after smearing her as an unfit mother in the press already, an impression that has never gone away. Even when people are on her side they usually pre-emptively admit that she's a terrible parent or crazy or whatever. Like you're not objective if you don't say that first. And what did she ever do to the guy? Nothing except object when he had sex with her children. That's it.

He did not care one iota that what he did hurt someone.  Not Mia. Not Soon Yi. Not Dylan. He turned the whole thing into him being the wronged party when it was his actions that set everything in motion.

 

11 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

Oh I know what I want to say, some of the strangest stuff was things that came directly from Woody's mouth.  Talking about how his virginal stepdaughter needed to "ripen?"  Ick. Or the "I'm 57, if I wanted to be a pedophile, I had many opportunities before now."  That's a strange defense.  So strange.

My personal opinion is he took advantage of those opportunities.  And if not for the fact he was a rich famous man he would not have had so many opportunities without getting caught.    And look at what happened when he was caught.  He still got away with it.

[sistermagpie]

Just now, hoodooznoodooz said:

Off-topic: her name was Eliza, at one point, no? Why did they start calling her Dylan?

Iirc, her original name was Dylan and Ronan's was Satchel. When all this was going on the children changed their names--or their names were changed--to Eliza and Seamus. But it seems that as they grew and chose their own names, Dylan just preferred her birth name where Ronan became Ronan. Don't know if that was maybe his middle name or what.

[DangerousMinds]

1 hour ago, sistermagpie said:

Agreed. One thing that really stuck out for me was when she was telling him not to try for custody etc. and she said, "I don't deserve this."

It's so obvious, but I never thought about it that starkly before, how much she didn't deserve it. I can't judge her completely as a person or anything, but this guy really did treat her so badly and cause her so much pain and then on top of that felt nothing about honestly trying to take her children away--one of whom he had abused--just because it was a good way to defend himself. And this after smearing her as an unfit mother in the press already, an impression that has never gone away. Even when people are on her side they usually pre-emptively admit that she's a terrible parent or crazy or whatever. Like you're not objective if you don't say that first. And what did she ever do to the guy? Nothing except object when he had sex with her children. That's it.

In the documentary where he's in Europe you see him doing that thing he does with her one the phone too, where he leans into his "helpless neurotic" persona to get what he wants. Like here he says of course he's not taping her because he can't work that sort of technical stuff, then hops onto another call and brags that he's taping her, fool that she is. 

Then he seems to slip into full villainy with his whole "well, you'll have your chance to prove it" when she's talking about how they both know she's not unfit and how "everything will come out in time" instead of just telling her where he was those 20 minutes nobody could find him with Dylan. Of course it's really because he was exactly where Dylan said he was but it's such a supervillain line.

And not once could he just simply tell her how sorry he was that he hurt her with the Soon Yi situation. Something so simple, yet he couldn’t say it.

[sistermagpie]

2 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

And not once could he just simply tell her how sorry he was that he hurt her with the Soon Yi situation. Something so simple, yet he couldn’t say it.

Nope, in fact he went on the record insisting that he really didn't hurt her that much. For instance, claiming that Mia's reaction would have been no different if he'd cheated on her with his secretary.

[DangerousMinds]

1 hour ago, sistermagpie said:

Nope, in fact he went on the record insisting that he really didn't hurt her that much. For instance, claiming that Mia's reaction would have been no different if he'd cheated on her with his secretary.

IMO, he would still owe her an apology for cheating on her with his secretary. Why is it so hard to apologize?

[sistermagpie]

17 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

IMO, he would still owe her an apology for cheating on her with his secretary. Why is it so hard to apologize?

Because that might imply he could be wrong about something. With a woman, no less!

[ch1]

Allen is an evil little fuck.  I can’t believe how he played Mia about the press while he is plastered over everything ripping her to shreds.

Then besides molesting one of her children and having sex with an other he tried to take 3 of them away - including the one he molested. So he found another way to destroy them by using them as pawns.

He is garbage - and WTF is with him and the Paris line?  Jesus.

[DoubleUTeeEff]

3 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

It's so obvious, but I never thought about it that starkly before, how much she didn't deserve it. I can't judge her completely as a person or anything, but this guy really did treat her so badly and cause her so much pain

There is a very sexist element to the coverage of Mia as a "scorned woman" as though it isn't perfectly reasonable to be hurt and feel betrayed when someone cheats on you. Even if you ignore what happened to Dylan and think that Soon-Yi was 21 and not 17 when the affair started, it is still a normal human reaction to be very upset that a partner cheats on you and with someone so young. I think there a couple of double standards here. One, is that it's almost acceptable for men to be unfaithful and women are expected to "stand by their man." I'm thinking of all those politician's wives who literally stand by their man during press conferences after being cheated on. While when a woman cheats on her partner it's not accepted with a wink and a nod like it is for men and there is no such thing as dismissing a man's feelings or portraying him as a "scorned man." Which brings me to double standard two, men's feelings are considered valid--it wouldn't be considered amiss if a man were very angry after being betrayed by a woman like that. While women are dismissed as just being "emotional," as if we all weren't human beings who have emotions.

[Irlandesa]

1 hour ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

Even if you ignore what happened to Dylan and think that Soon-Yi was 21 and not 17 when the affair started

So I'm very confused by the "defense" of when this affair started.  He claims it wasn't until after her first semester at college.  The doorman/maid testified there was evidence it began while she was still in high school. 

Why is there a four year discrepancy in the argument about when it began?  Did she got to school later?

And I get so frustrated by articles defending Allen/criticizing the documentary for being one-sided.  No one ever claimed it was going to present both sides nor do I think any of us really expect it to.  But I don't think a lot of what's presented really disprove the claims made in the doc. 

Edited March 8, 2021 by Irlandesa

[Pickles Aplenty]

Just caught up and watched all three episodes.  And, I locked horns with a person on another site who kept saying they thought Woody was innocent, and how Mia's story "has a lot of holes in it", and how Mia was probably mean to her kids, so no molestation could have occurred on Woody's end, and by the way, they really like Woody Allen's movies, so they've read a lot about how he's really innocent, and blah, blah, BLAH.  I can't deal with people, anymore.  How does Mia's story have a lot of "holes" in it?  And what about Dylan's story?  Dylan is 35, now.  Does that not count for anything?

I don't understand.  Someone please club me over the head and put me out of my misery.

[Pepper Mostly]

5 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

And Dylan saying what Woody told her "I need to do this" sounded like something he would say.  That, and the promises of taking her to Paris.  Isn't that where he wanted to take Mariel Hemingway? He might be a "genius" but, as we saw with his script notes, he has his 18-year-old 20-year-old 18 year old young woman...the man has his patterns. 

The "I'll take you to Paris" line really stuck out to me too. 

I think Mia is a loving mother. Was she perfect? Was she equipped to deal with so many kids, some with special needs? No. But I think her heart was in the right place and she did her best. She made mistakes, as we all do. It interesting to me that even some people who think Woody is guilty as Cain feel compelled to add that Mia's crazy or inept or a bad person. 

[ifionlyknew]

8 minutes ago, Pepper Mostly said:

The "I'll take you to Paris" line really stuck out to me too. 

I think Mia is a loving mother. Was she perfect? Was she equipped to deal with so many kids, some with special needs? No. But I think her heart was in the right place and she did her best. She made mistakes, as we all do. It interesting to me that even some people who think Woody is guilty as Cain feel compelled to add that Mia's crazy or inept or a bad person. 

Whatever Mia's faults she never had sex with a boyfriend's child or been accused of molesting any of her children.