Allen v. Farrow

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Allen v. Farrow, from award-winning investigative filmmakers Kirby Dick & Amy Ziering and Amy Herdy, is a four-part documentary series that goes behind decades of sensational headlines to reveal the private story of one of Hollywood’s most notorious and public scandals: the accusation of sexual abuse against Woody Allen involving Dylan, his then seven-year-old daughter with Mia Farrow; their subsequent custody trial, the revelation of Allen’s relationship with Farrow’s daughter, Soon-Yi; and the controversial aftermath in the years that followed. Once celebrated for their on and off-screen partnership, Farrow and Allen’s lives were irrevocably fractured and their sprawling family torn apart with the public disclosure of the abuse allegations and the vitriolic disputes that followed.

Along with new investigative work — pieced together via intimate home movie footage, court documents, police evidence, revelatory videotape and never-before-heard audio tapes — the series includes exclusive interviews on the subject with Mia Farrow, Dylan Farrow, Ronan Farrow, family friend Carly Simon, prosecutor Frank Maco, relatives, investigators and experts.

Allen v. Farrow also examines the effects of trauma on a family, and features prominent cultural voices exploring Allen's body of work in a broader context and reflecting on how public revelations about the personal lives of artists can lead to re-evaluations of their work.

Promo:

 

Edited February 16, 2021 by ElectricBoogaloo

[DanaK]

Man, this should be interesting

Something I find strange is that HBO announced this only a couple of weeks ago or so. It seems something big like this would have been announced months ago (unless I missed it). It makes me think they are afraid of litigation or something else if they stealthed the project until now

Edited February 16, 2021 by DanaK

[DanaK]

Interesting article from The Hollywood Reporter on the docu series, including the bombshell allegation that Woody Allen may have been in a sexual relationship with Soon-Yi while she was still in high school https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/features/allen-v-farrow-inside-amy-ziering-and-kirby-dicks-explosive-hbo-docuseries?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social

 

[Dr.OO7]

21 hours ago, DanaK said:

Interesting article from The Hollywood Reporter on the docu series, including the bombshell allegation that Woody Allen may have been in a sexual relationship with Soon-Yi while she was still in high school https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/features/allen-v-farrow-inside-amy-ziering-and-kirby-dicks-explosive-hbo-docuseries?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social

 

I read something like that--his doorman reported seeing her visit frequently and his maid reported semen stains on his bed and condoms in his trash.

Ugh. And they're still together--and the parents of two girls! UGH.

I was a kid when this all broke, so I had no idea what to think at the time, but reading articles written from as far back as 1992 that showed that Mia and numerous other people had concerns about his behavior towards Dylan long before the allegations came out cinched it for me. What a creep.

Here's what's odd. As the saying goes, "there's no such thing as a one time sexual predator." I'm not disputing his disgusting behavior with Dylan or Soon-Yi, but it's strange that it's only the two of them. I would have thought that there would be complaints from the children's playmates, etc.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

THR reviews Allen v Farrow (their main critique is that the documentary relies on selling the story emotionally)

Quote

Dick and Ziering set out to debunk common arguments made by Allen defenders. They showcase experts who discredit the Yale-New Haven Hospital report on Dylan — a primary piece of supporting documentation for Allen’s contention that Dylan either wasn’t being truthful or had been coached by Mia. They put Allen’s victory lap after Connecticut prosecutor Frank Maco decided not to bring charges, despite “probable cause,” in proper context (Maco didn’t want Dylan to have to endure the pressures of taking the stand).

But they aren’t as thorough with refutations when it comes to “the other side.” Moses Farrow has accused Mia of abuse and claimed Dylan was lying. Family members here call him a liar, and move on. Any claims made by Soon-Yi are even more critically dismissed, and there’s an occasional viciousness to how she’s treated in the doc. (Believe them or don’t, but the dynamic within the Farrow clan is unquestionably more complicated and fraught than what is acknowledged here.) Neither Moses nor Soon-Yi participated in Allen v. Farrow — nor did anybody who voices even superficial support for Allen. Rather, Allen is represented by passages from the audiobook version of his recent memoir, as well as phone conversations with Mia that the latter surreptitiously taped in the wake of their breakup. And it has to be said: Nobody defends Woody Allen worse than Woody Allen.

Dick and Ziering clearly thought the case they were building here was such a slam dunk that hubris set in. There is an evisceration of psychiatrist Richard Gardner’s theory of “Parental alienation syndrome” (according to which a child rejects one parent because the other parent demonizes them, often during a custody battle), the implicit basis for Allen’s defense of himself. But it feels like a topic that would have been better explored in its own doc. A family friend ventures several unsupported assumptions and pieces of unqualified analysis. Carly Simon pops up for no real reason, contributing little expertise or insight. The doc makes arguments about how Allen escaped consequences, and some are plausible, like the idea that the New York media was in the bag for the city’s native son. But if you’re going to imply that the amount of money Woody Allen productions brought into the Big Apple was enough for him to wield a vast amount of influence, there need to be receipts.

Less convincing still is the second episode’s use of Allen’s filmography against him, relying mainly on a cursory analysis of Manhattan and a montage of unsavory Allen-film tropes. Few at this point will claim that Allen’s romantic fixation on much younger women on-screen (and off) isn’t unsettling, or that his relationship with Soon-Yi hasn’t given those storylines a disturbing inflection. But suggesting that Allen’s films “groomed” audiences to accept his sleeping with his girlfriend’s teen daughter, and that that was a smokescreen for sexual abuse of a minor, is a reading of psychology requiring expertise beyond that of a cultural critic talking head.

These missteps limit the intellectual heft of Allen v. Farrow. The emotional heft, however, is sustained right through to the cathartic finale, in which writer Lili Loofbourow sums up perhaps the overarching thesis of Dick and Ziering’s oeuvre: “So much of this is about our willingness to not know the thing so that we don’t have to deal with it.” Even doubters have to deal.

 

[Guest]

28 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

The doc makes arguments about how Allen escaped consequences, and some are plausible, like the idea that the New York media was in the bag for the city’s native son.

If the tables were turned, one could make the argument that the New York media, so currently obsessed with Ronan Farrow, will allow him to say or do anything he wants now because of who he is. 

Not taking a side either way but I have no interest in so-called documentaries with subjective viewpoints. It's the reason I couldn't finish watching the HBO Natalie Wood documentary. Too much personal investment from her daughter in that one.

[Growsonwalls]

Idg why defenders of Woody always point out that Farrow was a shitty mother. These are not mutually exclusive -- Farrow could have been a shitty, neglectful mother AND Woody Allen a total creep/sexual predator. Maybe Farrow was sort of  out-there and not really involved in her kids' lives and that made it easier for Allen to get away with what he did. 

Edited February 20, 2021 by Growsonwalls

[ElectricBoogaloo]

S1.E1

Quote

Mia Farrow recounts her storied relationship with Woody Allen, once a beloved father figure to her seven children. Their adopted daughter Dylan speaks to the escalating discomfort she felt under the intensity of Woody's attention, which was a growing concern for Mia.

Original air date: 2/21/21

[DangerousMinds]

On 2/20/2021 at 4:36 PM, Growsonwalls said:

Idg why defenders of Woody always point out that Farrow was a shitty mother. These are not mutually exclusive -- Farrow could have been a shitty, neglectful mother AND Woody Allen a total creep/sexual predator. Maybe Farrow was sort of  out-there and not really involved in her kids' lives and that made it easier for Allen to get away with what he did. 

Because for some, deflection and whataboutism is all they have.

[Dr.OO7]

This was intense.

Mia struck me as the classic parent--seeing the warning signs, but not wanting to believe that someone you've known and loved for years could be capable of something so monstrous. And Woody struck me as the classic gaslighting abuser--telling MIA that she's the one who needs help for her completely justified concerns about his behavior towards Dylan.

Even 29 years later, you can see how much it horrified Mia to find those nude pictures of Soon Yi.

I can't believe such a perverted monster was lurking under this nerdy, nebbish facade.

Those pictures of a clearly unhappy Dylan being held or led around by Woody are painful to look at when you know what was probably going on the whole time.

[EdnasEdibles]

1 minute ago, Dr.OO7 said:

Those pictures of a clearly unhappy Dylan being held or led around by Woody are painful to look at when you know what was probably going on the whole time.

He really was so creepily clingy with her. I mean I have an older sister and our dad was really involved and affectionate but it was just different. He wasn’t all up in our business. We’d sit on his lap but he wouldn’t be constantly touching our hair and our bodies and following us around. If a whole bunch of kids and neighbors were around, the dads would gather. The moms would gather. The kids would run around. Seeing him following her and keeping her from the other kids is weird. And the underpants sleeping is gross.

I still can’t get over what he did with Soon Yi. That poor groomed woman. 

[Growsonwalls]

I watched this. I'm not sure I can watch any more. This was incredibly upsetting. 

A few thoughts:

1) I can't believe that Mia didn't see warning signs when Woody only wanted a 'blonde' girl to adopt. Why would that sort of thing matter? 

2) I think Mia was a somewhat absent parent. I don't blame her for what happened, but when I see all those videos where Mia's older adopted kids look rather sullen, that also sets off alarm bells ...

3) This is NUTS but when you look at Soon Yi and Mia you SORT of see this weird resemblance. Of course it's not obvious but Soon Yi seems to have similar build and expressions as Mia. It turns my stomach but I could see Soon Yi being Woody's "type" after looking at Soon Yi and Mia.

4) The videos of him gripping Dylan and her looking so uncomfortable are hard to watch. So creepy. 

5) Poor Moses. He's such an adorable kid in those videos. But him growing up in a household with that much dysfunction seems to have damaged him. 

6) I remember when this stuff went down that Woody Allen claimed he had no part in Mia's household, that he wasn't a father figure, and much was made of him not even sharing a residence or staying the night at her place. This doc dispels that -- he's definitely around a lot as the "dad." 

Anyway I'm really not sure I have the intestinal fortitude to watch the rest of this. It's awful. Those poor, poor kids.

[txhorns79]

6 minutes ago, EdnasEdibles said:

I still can’t get over what he did with Soon Yi. That poor groomed woman. 

In fairness, Soon Yi has been interviewed about this exact thing, has denied anything untoward happened and does not view herself as being abused by Allen.  I do feel somewhat like people take away her agency, even as a now 50-something woman, as a way to dismiss her feelings about herself and her relationship with Allen.

It's a difficult series.  What's alleged is awful, but the show also very much has a point of view and I feel like what is being said should be taken with a grain of salt.      

[Growsonwalls]

8 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

In fairness, Soon Yi has been interviewed about this exact thing, has denied anything untoward happened and does not view herself as being abused by Allen.  I do feel somewhat like people take away her agency, even as a now 50-something woman, as a way to dismiss her feelings about herself and her relationship with Allen.

It's a difficult series.  What's alleged is awful, but the show also very much has a point of view and I feel like what is being said should be taken with a grain of salt.      

When they got together he was 56 and she was 18 or 19. I'm sorry, that's just fucked up no matter how you slice or dice it. 

[EdnasEdibles]

1 minute ago, Growsonwalls said:

When they got together he was 56 and she was 18 or 19. I'm sorry, that's just fucked up no matter how you slice or dice it. 

And the age difference is only part of it. He was a father figure in her life. He was married to her mother. Ick. Straight up ick. 

[txhorns79]

1 minute ago, Growsonwalls said:

When they got together he was 56 and she was 18 or 19. I'm sorry, that's just fucked up no matter how you slice or dice it. 

I think she was 20 or 21.

Just now, EdnasEdibles said:

And the age difference is only part of it. He was a father figure in her life. He was married to her mother. Ick. Straight up ick. 

Woody and Mia were never married.  Soon Yi claims they had little contact until she was 17 or 18.

[Growsonwalls]

1 minute ago, txhorns79 said:

I think she was 20 or 21.

Woody and Mia were never married.  Soon Yi claims they had little contact until she was 17 or 18.

WHatever age it was, it wasn't appropriate. 

And the home videos show that he very much was in their life. She's in the videos with him and Dylan. She's there. She can't claim that he wasn't in her life. 

[txhorns79]

11 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

And the home videos show that he very much was in their life. She's in the videos with him and Dylan. She's there. She can't claim that he wasn't in her life. 

I think what she has said is that they had little contact, which I took to mean that they were not close.  I don't know that she's ever claimed he was not a presence in her life. 

I'll make clear that I'm not arguing Allen is a good person.  I just question the accusation that he molested his 7 year old adopted daughter.  I mean, at least for me, I read all about the Satanic Panic of the 80s and 90s, and dozens of children were convinced they had been molested and tortured by various adults.  None of it was true, but these children were thoroughly convinced by the adults around them that terrible things had happened.        

[Growsonwalls]

16 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

I think what she has said is that they had little contact, which I took to mean that they were not close.  I don't know that she's ever claimed he was not a presence in her life. 

I'll make clear that I'm not arguing Allen is a good person.  I just question the accusation that he molested his 7 year old adopted daughter.  I mean, at least for me, I read all about the Satanic Panic of the 80s and 90s, and dozens of children were thoroughly convinced they had been molested and tortured by various adults.  None of it was true, but these children were thoroughly convinced by the adults around them that terrible things had happened.        

Those accusations tended to be about strangers or daycare centers. False accusations against relatives are much rarer because of the shame and trauma involved in admitting the incident. I worked at a school where most of the girls had been raped by relatives and without exceptions their mothers sided with the molesters and kicked their daughters out into foster care or group homes.

Why would Dylan lie about something like this nearly 30 years later? That's her father. 

ETA: Woody Allen is so wildly inappropriate. He admits he leaves when there's diapers to be changed? What a turd.

Edited February 22, 2021 by Growsonwalls

[txhorns79]

1 minute ago, Growsonwalls said:

Why would Dylan lie about something like this nearly 30 years later? That's her father. 

I never said Dylan was lying.  I can certainly believe that she believes what she is saying is true.  My point was more that we have seen how easily children that age can be convinced something is true, particularly when authority figures in their lives are reinforcing that belief.     

[Growsonwalls]

4 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

I never said Dylan was lying.  I can certainly believe that she believes what she is saying is true.  My point was more that we have seen how easily children that age can be convinced something is true, particularly when authority figures in their lives are reinforcing that belief.     

This is a whole other kettle of fish but false accusations of molestation are extraordinarily rare coming from a child towards a parent. If Dylan confided in a therapist that it happened then I believe Dylan. Kids just don't make up something that sick and twisted. 

[Quilt Fairy]

Apropos of nothing, Dylan Farrow really looks like Carrie Fisher to me. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

3 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

In fairness, Soon Yi has been interviewed about this exact thing, has denied anything untoward happened and does not view herself as being abused by Allen.  I do feel somewhat like people take away her agency, even as a now 50-something woman, as a way to dismiss her feelings about herself and her relationship with Allen. 

That’s exactly what I would expect someone who has been groomed since the time she was a teenager by a man decades older than her to say. She’s been drinking the Kool-Aid for 30 years. 

[vibeology]

9 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

It's a difficult series.  What's alleged is awful, but the show also very much has a point of view and I feel like what is being said should be taken with a grain of salt.      

Every documentary has a point of view. Woody is free to make his own if he wants. I wish he wouldn't because I don't want to hear it and I imagine Dylan doesn't want to hear it either but the option is more that available to him. He makes a movie a year. He could make this if he wanted.

But nothing will change the fact that he is both father and brother-in-law to several of his children.

I honestly hated seeing Woody so much but it was more than necessary to squash his claim that he wasn't involved in the lives of the children. He was. He was present at Mia's two homes frequently. He had space in his home for those kids. He was a part of their lives from breakfast to bedtime. He was not some shadowy figure who sometimes visited Mia. He was there. 

[Sir RaiderDuck OMS]

A few thoughts:

1) I was struck at how Woody's autobiography described Mia as "appropriately libidinous." When two Hollywood types date for any length of time, everyone assumes they're sleeping together. Interesting how Woody not only felt it necessary to say it out loud, but also assure us that Mia was horny for him.

2) Especially damning are the accounts by others at Woody's obsessiveness over Dylan. If it were just Dylan's story against Woody's, I could buy Moses' claims that Mia was an abusive alpha bitch who coaxed Dylan into speaking (and later believing) these accusations as revenge for Soon-Yi. But I don't think Mia could coerce these other adults into backing up her story. This isn't a Harvey Weinstein or Clint Eastwood situation where a big Hollywood wheel will ruin people's careers for not taking their side. Farrow, at this point in her life, is primarily known as Woody's ex (Rosemary's Baby was half a century ago, and I'd bet most people under 60 have no idea Mia was ever married to Frank Sinatra). If Mia Farrow hates your guts, 99% of Hollywood won't care either way.

3) As someone above said, it's completely possible that Mia IS a controlling alpha bitch AND Woody still molested Dylan. The two are not mutually exclusive.

[Growsonwalls]

19 minutes ago, Sir RaiderDuck OMS said:

3) As someone above said, it's completely possible that Mia IS a controlling alpha bitch AND Woody still molested Dylan. The two are not mutually exclusive.

I think actually that Mia's lack of parenting skills might have made it easier for Woody to groom SoonYi and also to molest Dylan. It's really hard for anyone to take care of that many kids, especially a busy actress. 

Also Mia missed so many red flags with Woody. Like he said he had no interest in her kids. Why would you date someone who wasn't interested in your kids? Then he said if they had kids that he only wanted a blonde girl. Again, why would that sort of thing matter? 

A bunch of special needs kids + an absent, distracted mother = a situation where a predator can easily groom victims.

[txhorns79]

7 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

That’s exactly what I would expect someone who has been groomed since the time she was a teenager by a man decades older than her to say. She’s been drinking the Kool-Aid for 30 years. 

I would just point out the implications of this train of thought.  It's essentially saying that denying you've been molested is evidence that you've been molested.  

I appreciate the discussion here.  It's a very fraught topic, but the respectful nature of the discussion is refreshing. 

[Growsonwalls]

If Soon Yi were to say she was abused by Allen ... who would she turn to? She's completely estranged from her family. She was borne to a prostitute who abandoned her in S. Korea who most likely is deceased. She chose to put her eggs in the Woody Allen basket and I imagine has very little in the way of job skills. 

This is what abusers do ... they isolate their victims until they have no one left. 

[candall]

The most interesting part, to me, revolved around how much leeway Woody Allen was given from everyone because he was--an oddball, a loner, a dedicated anti-kid eccentric, the beloved New York auteur.  "He's not behaving like a parent, but no surprise there!"

I understand some of that.  My parents were separated before I was born so I never knew my non-custodial father in the way of "dad as furniture."  He picked me up for dinner twice a week and we interacted, damn it, whether I felt like it or (I realize now) whether he felt like it.  An only child himself, he didn't have the first idea how dads traditionally interact with their kids.  We had steaks and talked.  Then we watched Mannix and he drove me home.

But trust me on this:  he never gave me any instructions on how to wrap my tongue around his thumb.  

That was the moment Dylan sealed the deal for me.  What a horror for her.  And then to possibly overhear herself described as "being soothed" by that extremely unnatural activity?  I'm proud of her for being able to stand up and walk around like a regular person.

****************

So I know a little about that, and I don't know a thing about this, but these reports of Mia Farrow as a "distant parent" don't mesh for me with the ridiculous amount of home video footage that exists of all those kids.

Edited February 22, 2021 by candall
I forgot about Mannix. : )

[txhorns79]

Response to the series from Woody Allen and Soon Yi Previn.

 

 

[Growsonwalls]

Woody Allen is a horrible person. If he cared about Dylan at all he wouldn't put out statements accusing her of lying. 

[Guest]

31 minutes ago, candall said:

But trust me on this:  he never gave me any instructions on how to wrap my tongue around his thumb.  

That was the moment Dylan sealed the deal for me.  What a horror for her.  And then to possibly overhear herself described as "being soothed" by that extremely unnatural activity?  I'm proud of her for being able to stand up and walk around like a regular person.

Same for me. There’s just no legitimate explanation for that. Particularly when someone else saw it happening. It was that and the impartial therapists seeing red flags before anyone knew about his relationship with Soon-Yi that convinced me. 

[Quilt Fairy]

3 hours ago, Sir RaiderDuck OMS said:

1) I was struck at how Woody's autobiography described Mia as "appropriately libidinous." When two Hollywood types date for any length of time, everyone assumes they're sleeping together. Interesting how Woody not only felt it necessary to say it out loud, but also assure us that Mia was horny for him.

That phrase resonated to me as well.  Also how Mia was "attentive to my needs" or something like that.  I know it's from his autobiography, but damn, it's all about him. 

Whatever defense Woody Allen might have, apart from the "he said/she said" aspect, has to be almost exclusively famous people saying "The Woody I know wouldn't do that."  It's not has if he's going to have home movie footage of him maintaining an appropriate distance from Dylan. 

I'm coming at this from a 50's perspective, but I heard "The kids were running around naked" a few too many times.  No little girl past the baby stage should be running around in just her underpants.   

It occurs to me that rich, white Hollywood actresses have a very easy time adopting kids. 

[Growsonwalls]

Mia is on good terms with the rest of her adoptive kids except for Moses. She might not win any Mother of the Year awards but I don;t believe she's a completely shitty awful mother if most of her kids are on good terms with her.

[peachmangosteen]

44 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

Mia is on good terms with the rest of her adoptive kids except for Moses. She might not win any Mother of the Year awards but I don;t believe she's a completely shitty awful mother if most of her kids are on good terms with her.

I was wondering about this. I thought I had heard none of her other kids talk to her. I wonder if any of the other siblings will take part in this?

I don’t really know much about this whole situation outside of Woody Allen married Soon Yi, molested his daughter, and that he says that was all made up by Mia as revenge. This first ep alone was very enlightening for me.

I think the notion that the whole thing was made up by Mia has already been disproven. There were non-family members on screen saying they saw inappropriate behavior and information that multiple psychologists said it was inappropriate. 

I really have never seen or heard much of Woody Allen before and I was struck by how fucking creepy he is, even outside of the molesting of Dylan and marriage to Soon Yi. He’s just really icky to me.

[Ohiopirate02]

34 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

Mia is on good terms with the rest of her adoptive kids except for Moses. She might not win any Mother of the Year awards but I don;t believe she's a completely shitty awful mother if most of her kids are on good terms with her.

And Moses has his own issues he is blind to.  I have read his blog post a few times, and what stands out to me is his vitriol towards Dylan and Ronan.  He hates them.  He insists upon calling Ronan his legal first name (probably because it was Woody's idea). It reads like a child mad that mean old Dylan took away his daddy.  Moses is oblivious to the fact that Woody had to be persuaded by Mia to adopt him along with Dylan.  He almost gets there when he talks about how the custody battle was really over Dylan and Ronan because Moses was always an afterthought.  But, Moses just does not want to believe anything bad about Woody.  

[Growsonwalls]

4 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

And Moses has his own issues he is blind to.  I have read his blog post a few times, and what stands out to me is his vitriol towards Dylan and Ronan.  He hates them.  He insists upon calling Ronan his legal first name (probably because it was Woody's idea). It reads like a child mad that mean old Dylan took away his daddy.  Moses is oblivious to the fact that Woody had to be persuaded by Mia to adopt him along with Dylan.  He almost gets there when he talks about how the custody battle was really over Dylan and Ronan because Moses was always an afterthought.  But, Moses just does not want to believe anything bad about Woody.  

His IG seems kind of out there too. He says all adoption is child abuse.

https://instagram.com/mosesafarrow?igshid=14zs0bwburmmf

[Guest]

5 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

Response to the series from Woody Allen and Soon Yi Previn.

To me that’s a weak response because there really isn’t anything he could have said that hasn’t already been said. Did he worry about getting Mia and Dylan’s side out when he wrote his book or in that interview with Soon Yi?  Of course not, because that was their version. The new voice in all of this is really Dylan. He doesn’t get to defend himself repeatedly and silence Dylan. 

Edited February 22, 2021 by Guest

[sadie]

Woody Allen is most definitely a pedophile. No question in my mind. Second, Mia Farrow is both an idiot and I believe has some type of mental illness. The only victims are all these children.

So this woman who already has SEVEN children decides she needs MORE. Her boyfriend tells he he has no interest in having a kid, but hey, if you do adopt can you make it a blond girl? Wtf? She has this child in therapy at FIVE, her and others see he is obsessed with her, she catches him in bed with his underwear as do others and NO ONE takes this child and the other children the hell away from him. When someone needs more and more children I believe it is about the adult and not the children. I think Farrow saw herself as some hero saving all these kids. But you can’t give full attention to that many kids, but hey she wants more and she’s rich and famous so let’s give her more.

I found Farrow completely unsympathetic. She has seven kids, gets involved with a guy that says he isnt interested in kids but she does it anyway because she’s an “adult that liked having a boyfriend”, are you kidding me and then adds more children into the mix. The kids I feel bad for, Farrow not at all. I think she likes to fancy herself a victim of Woody but if she had gotten out of her own way she should have seen this guy coming from ten miles away. 
 

What a shit show. If no one saw this disaster coming then they weren’t paying attention. I believe Farrow wanted all these kids to feed her ego, wanted Allen in her life because he was rich and famous and she allows him to adopt two of these kids AFTER she and others suspect something is “off” with Allen. Delusion they name is Mia. I don’t know how much worse this story can get. 

[Glade]

On 2/20/2021 at 11:36 AM, Growsonwalls said:

Idg why defenders of Woody always point out that Farrow was a shitty mother. These are not mutually exclusive -- Farrow could have been a shitty, neglectful mother AND Woody Allen a total creep/sexual predator. Maybe Farrow was sort of  out-there and not really involved in her kids' lives and that made it easier for Allen to get away with what he did. 

Absolutely!  It isn't all or nothing.  I can believe that Mia could have been emotionally or physically abusive to some of her kids and/or that she didn't understand the emotional needs of the children she adopted internationally (and children adopted internationally do come with pre-existing trauma and issues, which Allen's arguments about Mia causing her children to commit suicide leave out, but then again neglectful and abusive adoptive parents can and do also add to that trauma), but also Woody Allen groomed and abused Dylan and Soon-Yi.  And actually, Allen himself describes it as thus in his memoir:

Quote

Here is the explanation Allen tenders in the book about why he took up with his girlfriend’s daughter. He had simply realized that “here was a sharp, classy, fabulous young woman: highly intelligent, full of latent potential, and ready to ripen superbly if only someone would show her a little interest, a little support, and most important, some love.”  https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/06/i-read-woody-allen-memoir/612736/

I.e. in his own words he saw her as a vulnerable young person in need of care and support--so vulnerable in fact that he could groom her into a sexual relationship with her mother's wealthy, powerful, worldly sixty something boyfriend.  He saw an opportunity to use his position not only in society but in her household where he was a father figure to all of the children in order to prey upon a teenage girl. 

Honestly I wish we could watch all of these episodes at once, I was riveted by the first episode, and having to wait and also watch the tired old Allen-based smears of Mia Farrow show up everywhere online is dissapointing.  As a survivor I beleive Dylan and this documentary has given a lot of context that I've never seen before.  Dylan is an adult survivor and it's insulting and ridiculous to claim or imply that an adult would put themselves through the kind of personal attacks and scrutiny involved in telling on a very powerful, wealthy person all to aid in a supposed vendetta her mother has for the fact that Allen groomed and abused/cheated on her with her own daughter right underneath her nose.

[Dr.OO7]

1 hour ago, Glade said:

Quote

Here is the explanation Allen tenders in the book about why he took up with his girlfriend’s daughter. He had simply realized that “here was a sharp, classy, fabulous young woman: highly intelligent, full of latent potential, and ready to ripen superbly if only someone would show her a little interest, a little support, and most important, some love.”  https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/06/i-read-woody-allen-memoir/612736/

I.e. in his own words he saw her as a vulnerable young person in need of care and support--so vulnerable in fact that he could groom her into a sexual relationship with her mother's wealthy, powerful, worldly sixty something boyfriend.  He saw an opportunity to use his position not only in society but in her household where he was a father figure to all of the children in order to prey upon a teenage girl. 

Those words made me absolutely shudder, mostly because they're so eerily similar to what the professor who sexually harassed me (my second MeToo story) would say. Do all these creeps read from the same "how-to" book?

It sounds like nothing but the typical lines/excuses these older men will use for preying on young, but conveniently of legal age girls, not to mention how they get away with it--casting themselves as some kind of a mentor looking to offer help and advice and as if anything sexual/romantic is just a happy coincidence or natural progression, rather than what they fully intended all along.

[Cheezwiz]

1 hour ago, Glade said:

Honestly I wish we could watch all of these episodes at once, I was riveted by the first episode, and having to wait and also watch the tired old Allen-based smears of Mia Farrow show up everywhere online is dissapointing. 

Agreed - I'm curious to see what else the filmmakers will be revealing in future episodes.

Even the cursory glances at the comments sections of news articles have been disappointing. Armies of people still defending Allen as an innocent victim. What frustrates me most is that so many people seem to be incapable of comprehending that two things, or even multiple things can be true at the same time.

Personally I think both Allen & Farrow are BOTH completely nuts. The only victims are the children who had to grow up in that effed up dynamic.

My guess is that Mia is not the saintly United Nations Mom she liked to portray herself as. I find both Moses' & Soon Yi's accounts of her behaviour towards them credible and compelling. I think it's entirely possible if not probable that she had a hierarchy for her children, and meted out abuse to her international adoptions. It's not uncommon for children within the same family to have completely different impressions of their growing up years. Why people (even those with means) would be allowed to adopt that many children is beyond me. I have actually been unable to keep track of the total number of adopted and biological kids under Mia's care. To me, this speaks of compulsion and ego burnishing. Three of the International adoptions wound up dead as young adults under tragic circumstances. 

Allen had been displaying extremely odd possessive smothering behaviour towards Dylan that several others had noted well before the Soon Yi scandal broke. He attended therapy sessions over this for god's sake. From his own memoir and Mia's description of their relationship, it's clear he was a narcissistic turd. Numerous people around the household caught him in compromising positions with Dylan. He was also clearly not an occasional arms-length guest who dropped in once in awhile, he absolutely had a parental role in all of those children's lives. He was in a prime position to groom someone neglected like Soon Yi.  I also think it's entirely possible he could have molested Dylan at some point, but things are so warped and tangled, no one will ever know for sure, unless someone comes out with it and confesses.

I do 100% believe that Dylan is speaking her truth as she recalls it, and is not trying to pull one over on anyone - I don't get the impression she's being dishonest at all, and I believe her younger brother Ronan is simply trying to support her.

I also believe Moses's account of his upbringing, but I think he was looking for validation (and who knows, perhaps financial support?) from a father figure, so he's now firmly in Allen's orbit.

Both Allen & Farrow have people in their camps who they could have manipulated.

 

 

[Growsonwalls]

I researched more into Moses Farrow. It appears he's now an activist against international adoptions. His IG is very ... weird. He seems to think that all adoptions are child abuse. 

I don't doubt that he's traumatized from his own adoption. It sounds as if he got stuck in the very middle of two batches of kids: the "Andre Previn" kids and the "Woody" kids. I don't doubt that Mia probably neglected him growing up. And maybe Woody was kind to him. I would never discount his experiences.

But he seems willing to erase Dylan's experiences. 

I also think it's interesting how much society is willing to believe a 7 year old would concoct an elaborate story about being molested by a father. What does that say about us as a society? The responses to Dylan Farrow remind me why survivors of sexual abuse don't come forward. They aren't believed. People do such mental gymnastics to say "oh she must be lying" evne if they end up accusing a 7 year old girl of lying.

Edited February 23, 2021 by Growsonwalls

[txhorns79]

35 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

I also think it's interesting how much society is willing to believe a 7 year old would concoct an elaborate story about being molested by a father. What does that say about us as a society? The responses to Dylan Farrow remind me why survivors of sexual abuse don't come forward. They aren't believed. People do such mental gymnastics to say "oh she must be lying" even if they end up accusing a 7 year old girl of lying.

I may be missing something, but I think the usual argument is that she was put up to this by her mother, not that Dylan herself came up with the allegations. 

[Growsonwalls]

7 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

I may be missing something, but I think the usual argument is that she was put up to this by her mother, not that Dylan herself came up with the allegations. 

But why would a girl lie about her own father like that? Not only lie about her father, but continue the lie almost 30 years later?

even if Mia tried to coach her, if it didn't happen, would a girl just continue to call her father a molester if it wasn't true? 

Most false accusations of sexual abuse actually fall apart very quickly. Dylan has been consistent about her story for 30 years. As I said, it's incredibly fucked up that society so easily can believe that a mother can manipulate her child into lying about something as grave as molestation instead of just believing the child.

[txhorns79]

5 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

Most false accusations of sexual abuse actually fall apart very quickly. Dylan has been consistent about her story for 30 years. As I said, it's incredibly fucked up that society so easily can believe that a mother can manipulate her child into lying about something as grave as molestation instead of just believing the child.

As I mentioned before, during the Satanic panic cases of the 80s and 90s, dozens of children were thoroughly convinced that their caregivers had raped, molested and sexually tortured them.  It turned out that the police and the psychiatrists treating the children had inadvertently manipulated the children into believing these things had happened.  People wrongly went to jail based on some of this testimony, meaning these stories held for years.  My only point being that children can be manipulated into making extremely grave accusations against their caretakers.   

[Dr.OO7]

1 hour ago, Cheezwiz said:

 I have actually been unable to keep track of the total number of adopted and biological kids under Mia's care

I had to look it up--14, 10 adopted, 4 biological (3 with Previn, one with Allen)

Yikes. From one of the articles I read, it's like the ink was barely dry on one adoption certificate before she was starting another one. I think she even adopted two of them in the midst of all the turmoil.

That's not normal. Loving kids and wanting to give them a good home is one thing, but this many and so frequently and rapidly is bizarre.

[Growsonwalls]

2 minutes ago, Dr.OO7 said:

I had to look it up--14, 10 adopted, 4 biological (3 with Previn, one with Allen)

Yikes. From one of the articles I read, it's like the ink was barely dry on one adoption certificate before she was starting another one. I think she even adopted two of them in the midst of all the turmoil.

That's not normal. Loving kids and wanting to give them a good home is one thing, but this many and so frequently and rapidly is bizarre.

It seems as if three of her children have died:

https://people.com/celebrity/mia-farrows-children-where-are-they-now/

She's a very odd number, no doubt. I just don't think she'd purposely coach her daughter to think her father had molested her.

[Glade]

Quote

Was there anyone that you wanted to interview who wouldn’t talk?

Herdy: Well, there was somebody that we found, and it was too late. And it was one of those forehead-slapping moments. Allison Stickland: who was the nanny who actually was an eyewitness to behavior between Woody Allen and Dylan, who testified in the custody trial and gave a sworn statement to police that she walked in and Woody had his face in Dylan’s naked lap.

I sent a snail mail letter, a very carefully worded one, and said, “If you are Allison Stickland who was a nanny in Connecticut, I would love to have a conversation with you,” and put my cellphone number in it. And apparently, she got the letter and debated it for several weeks. And then she sent me a text message the day after we locked, and said, “Sure, I’ll talk to you.” And it was excruciatingly painful. But we did talk to her for a podcast. She’s amazing. And she still remembers everything very vividly. https://variety.com/2021/tv/news/allen-v-farrow-filmmakers-dylan-mia-farrow-woody-allen-1234911658/

Now there are two unrelated adults in addition to Mia Farrow who reported witnessing Woody Allen engaging in grooming and/or sexually abusive behaviors, like shoving his face into the naked crotch of a young child.  It's not just Dylan's word vs Allen's. 

 

41 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

As I mentioned before, during the Satanic panic cases of the 80s and 90s, dozens of children were thoroughly convinced that their caregivers had raped, molested and sexually tortured them.  It turned out that the police and the psychiatrists treating the children had inadvertently manipulated the children into believing these things had happened.  People wrongly went to jail based on some of this testimony, meaning these stories held for years.  My only point being that children can be manipulated into making extremely grave accusations against their caretakers.   

A heavily researched study came out a few years ago debunking this narrative, showing that in fact there were real, independent claims and evidence behind most of the cases now described as part of this 'panic' back then.  Many abusers have used this argument to smear their child and even adult victims to try and escape justice--like Jesse Freidman of 'Capturing The Freidman's' who falsely claimed his child victims had been hypnotized into saying he abused them, which never happened and they came forward to verify as adults that yes he abused them and his attempts to vacate his conviction rightly failed.  The term 'False Memory Syndrome' was in itself coined by a father who's adult child had accused him of sexual abuse.  

Quote

In the 1980s, a series of child sex abuse cases rocked the United States. The most famous case was the 1984 McMartin preschool case, but there were a number of others as well. By the latter part of the decade, the assumption was widespread that child sex abuse had become a serious problem in America. Yet within a few years, the concern about it died down considerably. The failure to convict anyone in the McMartin case and a widely publicized appellate decision in New Jersey that freed an accused molester had turned the dominant narrative on its head. In the early 1990s, a new narrative with remarkable staying power emerged: the child sex abuse cases were symptomatic of a 'moral panic' that had produced a witch hunt. A central claim in this new witch hunt narrative was that the children who testified were not reliable and easily swayed by prosecutorial suggestion. In time, the notion that child sex abuse was a product of sensationalized over-reporting and far less endemic than originally thought became the new common sense.

But did the new witch hunt narrative accurately represent reality? As Ross Cheit demonstrates in his exhaustive account of child sex abuse cases in the past two and a half decades, purveyors of the witch hunt narrative never did the hard work of examining court records in the many cases that reached the courts throughout the nation. Instead, they treated a couple of cases as representative and concluded that the issue was blown far out of proportion. Drawing on years of research into cases in a number of states, Cheit shows that the issue had not been blown out of proportion at all. In fact, child sex abuse convictions were regular occurrences, and the crime occurred far more frequently than conventional wisdom would have us believe. Cheit's aim is not to simply prove the narrative wrong, however. He also shows how a narrative based on empirically thin evidence became a theory with real social force, and how that theory stood at odds with a far more grim reality. The belief that the charge of child sex abuse was typically a hoax also left us unprepared to deal with the far greater scandal of child sex abuse in the Catholic Church, which, incidentally, has served to substantiate Cheit's thesis about the pervasiveness of the problem. In sum, The Witch-Hunt Narrative is a magisterial and empirically powerful account of the social dynamics that led to the denial of widespread human tragedy.  https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/18427487-witch-hunt-narrative?from_search=true&from_srp=true&qid=dVLjGAnxLA&rank=1

 

Edited February 23, 2021 by Glade

[Growsonwalls]

I'll add that the Larry Nassar stories started appearing all the way back in the 1990's. It wasn't until 2016 or so that this creep finally really got scrutinized. That's a shocking 20 year span where girls were molested and their voices were not heard.

As I said, I totally believe Mia was a flaky, irresponsible mom. I totally believe she collected adopted children more as objects and was ill-prepared to deal with their special needs. But would she coach her daughter to make up molestation charges? I tend to think no.