S01.E04: Now You See Me

[maraleia]

 

Carter deals with a betrayal from Bird; Max decides to leave; Lori returns with a plan.

 

[grandemocha]

So Lori is full on fucking nuts, right? Because there was literally ZERO remorse on her face when she mentioned Elizabeth. The way she said Carter must be "suffering" was really sick and twisted as hell. She had crazy face on when she was talking to Max. This lady really doesn't see kidnapping as wrong at all. It's like to her, Carter is her daughter, getting a new identity is SUCH a major inconvenience to her plans, and Elizabeth and the dad are the ones who wrongfully took her daughter. That is pretty messed up.

 

The shady dad is a loser and clearly wants to be seen as the "good and cool" parent while Elizabeth has to be the strict disciplinarian.

That being said, those two shouldn't be married to each other anymore. There's very little honesty, communication, or compassion.

I still don't like any of Carter's friends, Bird annoys me, and the guy who is desperately panting after Carter is pathetic.

Edited July 23, 2014 by grandemocha

[FAU]

So Lori is full on fucking nuts, right? Because there was literally ZERO remorse on her face when she mentioned Elizabeth. The way she said Carter must be "suffering" was really sick and twisted as hell. She had crazy face on when she was talking to Max. This lady really doesn't see kidnapping as wrong at all. It's like to her, Carter is her daughter, getting a new identity is SUCH a major inconvenience to her plans, and Elizabeth and the dad are the ones who wrongfully took her daughter. That is pretty messed up.

 

The shady dad is a loser and clearly wants to be seen as the "good and cool" parent while Elizabeth has to be the strict disciplinarian.

That being said, those two shouldn't be married to each other anymore. There's very little honesty, communication, or compassion.

I still don't like any of Carter's friends, Bird annoys me, and the guy who is desperately panting after Carter is pathetic.

 

Same, Idc about her friends or that short-lived contrived drama that was just there, which seems to be a pattern at this point, it starts up and then it suddenly stops, then they move on with whatever is going on with the episode.

Edited July 23, 2014 by FAU

[In2You]

Its like this show strives for Carter and her father to be completely unlikeable. 

 

The contrived drama over Bird's painting was just ridiculous. Poor Carter can't stand being the center of attention all of a sudden when she's been pushing herself as the center of attention for weeks now. Girl Bye!  And why did Bird post them all around the school? I thought they were going to say it was because Bird and Crash used to mess around but nope they never said that in this episode.  Instead they seemed to try and paint her as crazy and possibly having a crush on Carter. This was just some lame excuse to have a catfight scene. 

 

That sweet moment between Max and Elizabeth has so far trumped any of the moments between any of the members of that family. Max has more depth than Carter does.

 

I do not care about that nut job Lori and like Max pointed out how is she rolling around that town when the police are searching for her?

 

I hate the father. I can see why Elizabeth was cheating on him. Its like he goes out of his way to paint her as the bad guy. He isn't even bringing home checks to house but is telling the girl's they can get a new car. 

 

These writers seem determined to paint Elizabeth as the bad one. 

 

This whole episode felt like a filler episode until the last 5 minutes. It took 4 episodes to make about 2 minutes of progress.

[Universalhunter]

So in one episode Carter's obsessed with finding her mom and being back with her and by the next she seems extremely well-adjusted considering, and it takes her a minute to even know who Max is talking about when he says her name?

And why was she so upset about the picture? Not liking it, okay, but that freak out was way over the top for what seemed like no reason.

This show is all over the place. I can't tell what anyone is thinking. I can't get invested in the characters because the show hasn't given much insight into any of them.

Edited July 23, 2014 by Universalhunter

[FAU]

Its like this show strives for Carter and her father to be completely unlikeable. 

 

The contrived drama over Bird's painting was just ridiculous. Poor Carter can't stand being the center of attention all of a sudden when she's been pushing herself as the center of attention for weeks now. Girl Bye!  And why did Bird post them all around the school? I thought they were going to say it was because Bird and Crash used to mess around but nope they never said that in this episode.  Instead they seemed to try and paint her as crazy and possibly having a crush on Carter. This was just some lame excuse to have a catfight scene. 

 

That sweet moment between Max and Elizabeth has so far trumped any of the moments between any of the members of that family. Max has more depth than Carter does.

 

I do not care about that nut job Lori and like Max pointed out how is she rolling around that town when the police are searching for her?

 

I hate the father. I can see why Elizabeth was cheating on him. Its like he goes out of his way to paint her as the bad guy. He isn't even bringing home checks to house but is telling the girl's they can get a new car. 

 

These writers seem determined to paint Elizabeth as the bad one. 

 

This whole episode felt like a filler episode until the last 5 minutes. It took 4 episodes to make about 2 minutes of progress.

 

I hate David trying to play the 'good', 'cool' dad and then he tries to turn it on her whenever she brings up actual issues.

 

I feel like I know more about Max more than the main protagonist of this series.

 

The fight was just stupid, pointless, and it made no sense with the way it went down: they fight over a painting, Bird posts it for some stupid reason, and then they're suddenly BFFs for some reason.

 

The writers seems to be struggling with basic character setups.

 

So in one episode Carter's obsessed with finding her mom and being back with her and by the next she seems extremely well-adjusted considering, and it takes her a minute to even know who Max is talking about when he says her name?

 

The pacing is just so bad, like the fight and make up scenes with her and Bird which feels so forced and unnatural with the way it went down.

 

 

And why was she so upset about the picture? Not liking it, okay, but that freak out was way over the top for what seemed like no reason.

 

Contrived drama for the episode I guess to get a break from fighting with Elizabeth.

 

 

This show is all over the place. I can't tell what anyone is thinking.

 

It really is, which like I said before is a shame since they completely wasted the premise.

[In2You]

As for those drawings of the masked man. Why even put that in the show if they aren't going to write it well?

[FAU]

As for those drawings of the masked man. Why even put that in the show if they aren't going to write it well?

 

The writers try to shove in unnecessary drama that they can't seem to handle so it ends up falling apart/not working the way they want it to.

[Aliasscape]

I'm worried Gabe will turn out to be Bird's rapist. He is just so obsessively creepy.

 

I get how upsetting the picture was for Carter. So much stuff has been taken out of her control that she would have liked to see it first privately rather than publicly.  Yeah she reacted badly and over the top, to me that was the most realistic thing. Carter's personality seems quite dramatic and even if it wasn't, she's recently been through a lot.

 

Still I was disappointed by most of this episode because it's like they wanted to write a teen drama and just happen to throw in the kidnapped at birth storyline as a piece of it. The show's barely even about Carter. Felt like that moment where Carter forgot about Lori is like a metaphor for the writer's room. "Oh episode done, almost forgot Carter was just reunited with these people. Toss in something about that." That Carter was looking at Bird's house and hating it and dragging her home with her as if that hadn't just become her house a month ago.

 

Max stuck in the middle of everything. Not enough Grant.

 

Elizabeth is having an affair but I otherwise didn't see them actually painting her negatively. That she cares about the family finances certainly wasn't a bad thing. Great to finally see the grandparents again. Why does Carter have way stronger memories of them? Did they babysit her a lot before she was kidnapped?

[GaT]

 

And why was she so upset about the picture? Not liking it, okay, but that freak out was way over the top for what seemed like no reason.

I didn't get that either, & I don't understand why Bird put it up all over the place, & then the drama over the picture was over & what was the point?

 

Max has awesome hair.

[Spencer Hastings]

The most interesting part of this episode was the page of the dad's book. Too bad we already called what he wrote. He wants to be liked, Carter never had another dad to compare him to so he looks like the good guy, he bought the car so he could be the hero. Yawn.

I don't see why Carter's friends are necessary. They're a waste of airtime. Less of them. Less of the dad. Hell, give me less Carter, too.

I would honestly watch a show that revolved around Taylor, Max, and Grant. Elizabeth can show up every now and then to give Max the parental figure he needs and yearns for. I like these 4 actors and their characters, it's a shame they're saddled with terrible writing. I like them away from Carter's drama.

[FAU]

I didn't get that either, & I don't understand why Bird put it up all over the place, & then the drama over the picture was over & what was the point?

 

Max has awesome hair.

 

Not only that, the quick resolution was awful as well.  If you can't write drama well, then stop shoving them in when it clearly doesn't work.

 

I would honestly watch a show that revolved around Taylor, Max, and Grant. Elizabeth can show up every now and then to give Max the parental figure he needs and yearns for. I like these 4 actors and their characters, it's a shame they're saddled with terrible writing. I like them away from Carter's drama.

 

Pretty much, I can't stand the main characters or Carter's friends who are just there to take up time with their pointless nonsense.

Edited July 23, 2014 by FAU

[Primetimer]

Using the childhood kidnapping of the protagonist as a McGuffin isn't working.

Read the story

[RachelKM]

Not only that, the quick resolution was awful as well.  If you can't write drama well, then stop shoving them in when it clearly doesn't work.

 

It was.  I could understand why Carter wouldn't love a picture of her face rotting away, though I think she took it too far getting as  up set as she did and demanding it be taken down.  However, considering how upset she was by it, I thought Bird's (?) response of posting copies was horrific (as well as being school vandalism which would have gotten her in a ton of trouble based on the scale).  It was a form of bullying that most schools would have expelled her for doing over night, let alone replacing them when the victim pulled them down.  And I was sort of appalled at the teacher's response which was to make both girls clean it up when it was obvious Carter was the target, not the perpetrator.  But even if all of that was ludicrous, the way the girls just got over it in less the 2 minutes was more so.  

Edited July 23, 2014 by RachelKM

[gesundheit]

Sarah's write-up of this episode is exactly how I feel. Carter's denial can make sense, but everybody's lack of interest in the kidnapping (not to mention all the many years since) is utter nonsense. And there's a bestseller anybody can read about it! But nobody has?

And I'm agreeing with everyone above about the bizarre drama between Carter and Bird. I have no idea what the point was, why anyone was so mad, why anyone reacted the way they did, and why they made up. No idea.

Max, however, is wonderful. He's dumb but more guileless-dumb-so-sometimes-it's-wise than just plain stupid. I wish he'd turned Lori in, but of course he's a confused kid. Maybe next week?

[FAU]

It was.  I could understand why Carter wouldn't love a picture of her face rotting away, though I think she took it too far getting as  up set as she did and demanding it be taken down.  However, considering how upset she was by it, I though Bird's (?) response of posting copies was horrific (as well as being school vandalism which would have gotten her in a ton of trouble based on the scale).  It was a form of bullying that most schools would have expelled her for doing over night, let alone replacing them when the victim pulled them down.  And I was sort of appalled at the teacher's response which was to make both girls clean it up when it was obvious Carter was the target, not the perpetrator.  But even if all of that was ludicrous, the way the girls just got over it in less the 2 minutes was more so.  

 

It really was, considering the quick make up scene and then suddenly turning them into BFFs in the same episode.  The whole thing felt so awkward and it seems to be a recurring problem with the way the writers are handling the characters.

[paulvdb]

I agree with you about the show moving too fast, not just with the quick make up scene. I was ok with Carter asking Bird to come to "my place" instead of calling it Elizabeth's place or whatever. She has been living there long enough that I could understand her starting to think of it as her place. But the "Lori who?" bit with Max was way too soon.

[Spencer Hastings]

I agree about the show moving too fast as well. How long has Carter been there at this point? She's just inviting kids over and the family seems to be adjusted to the change. I think that's what bothers me the most. We didn't get to see any of the awkward adjustment. We didn't get to see Grant getting used to having another sister, we didn't get to see the girls have their "whoa, we're twins" moments, or any fighting that goes on when you throw a new person into the mix (aside from the Carter sticking it to Elizabeth). Those are beats that need to be played when you have a kidnap victim coming home and I feel like they just fast forwarded through that.

[In2You]

I really didn't understand why Carter hated the picture so much. Did they even bother to state a reason? 

 

Lori is a nut job and I don't know what back story they can give that will make her appear as anything but crazy.

[FAU]

I agree with you about the show moving too fast, not just with the quick make up scene. I was ok with Carter asking Bird to come to "my place" instead of calling it Elizabeth's place or whatever. She has been living there long enough that I could understand her starting to think of it as her place. But the "Lori who?" bit with Max was way too soon.

 

The Lori bit was just forced, she was just going on and on about being with her real mom in the last episode and now she just suddenly forgot her?

I really didn't understand why Carter hated the picture so much. Did they even bother to state a reason? 

 

Lori is a nut job and I don't know what back story they can give that will make her appear as anything but crazy.

 

Not sure, it was just something to fight about for 1 scene and then making up quickly in the next.

I agree about the show moving too fast as well. How long has Carter been there at this point? She's just inviting kids over and the family seems to be adjusted to the change. I think that's what bothers me the most. We didn't get to see any of the awkward adjustment. We didn't get to see Grant getting used to having another sister, we didn't get to see the girls have their "whoa, we're twins" moments, or any fighting that goes on when you throw a new person into the mix (aside from the Carter sticking it to Elizabeth). Those are beats that need to be played when you have a kidnap victim coming home and I feel like they just fast forwarded through that.

 

Exactly, it's the drama that actually mattered that they brushed over like nothing.  We're not getting characters dealing/adjusting to the situation like we should've gotten.

Edited July 24, 2014 by FAU

[candall]

I didn't hate the scene where Carter asks, "Lori?"  She and Max were talking about various friends and he chose that moment to slip in the "Lori" topic.  Not a totally ridiculous stretch that Carter would automatically start flipping through her two sets of classmates before her mind jumped to the woman she refers to as "Mom" and not "Lori.".  It was a bit hamhanded, but I think it was just meant to show Carter loosening her deathgrip on the past as she starts to relax in the present.   I'm not marching the writers up to the wall at the firing range because of it.

 

For me, the blindfolds and cigarettes come out when two troublemaker teenage girls turn down an empty apartment stocked with vodka in favor of hustling on back to the crib for some family-style mac 'n cheese.

 

Which reminds me:  Has the phrase "Not on a schoolnight" gone the way of "The car ate my tape" and "Fetch me the butterchurn"?

[FAU]

 

I didn't hate the scene where Carter asks, "Lori?"  She and Max were talking about various friends and he chose that moment to slip in the "Lori" topic.  Not a totally ridiculous stretch that Carter would automatically start flipping through her two sets of classmates before her mind jumped to the woman she refers to as "Mom" and not "Lori.".  It was a bit hamhanded, but I think it was just meant to show Carter loosening her deathgrip on the past as she starts to relax in the present.   I'm not marching the writers up to the wall at the firing range because of it.

 

It's the way that it was handled and paced that was the problem.  The previous episodes had Carter on the Lori bandwagon and only this episode did she forget about her for a while so it wasn't believeable with the way it all went down.  This is the part where actual character development would've helped a lot.

[Kat]

 

I would honestly watch a show that revolved around Taylor, Max, and Grant. Elizabeth can show up every now and then to give Max the parental figure he needs and yearns for. I like these 4 actors and their characters, it's a shame they're saddled with terrible writing. I like them away from Carter's drama.

Spencer Hastings, I've been saying the same thing since the second episode. I find Carter so annoying, and I'm angry at what seems to be lazy or unfocused writing that's making her character that way.

 

 

That sweet moment between Max and Elizabeth has so far trumped any of the moments between any of the members of that family. Max has more depth than Carter does.

ITA In2You. Also? Alex Saxon, please marry me. I know that I'm 20+ years older than you, but I'm sure we can make it work! 

[Kromm]

So Lori is full on fucking nuts, right? Because there was literally ZERO remorse on her face when she mentioned Elizabeth. 

Yes, I think the worries people expressed after Episode 1 of the show "justifying" Lori are pretty totally unglued by this episode.  It doesn't leave you with much doubt that she's totally looney tunes.

 

The way she said Carter must be "suffering" was really sick and twisted as hell. She had crazy face on when she was talking to Max. This lady really doesn't see kidnapping as wrong at all. It's like to her, Carter is her daughter, getting a new identity is SUCH a major inconvenience to her plans, and Elizabeth and the dad are the ones who wrongfully took her daughter. That is pretty messed up.

It seems more delusional than twisted in a more overt way.  It's someone who's constructed an entire reality to support her point of view.  

[Cranberry]

It seems like the writers are still trying to figure out what to do with these characters, or that they're rushing character development and having most of it happen off-screen. Elizabeth has backed off a little and learned to let things (like the impromptu tent sleepover) go. She also didn't even mention Lori in this episode. Carter and Taylor are apparently getting along fine now, no competing over boys at all. They apparently forgot about Taylor being friends with/infatuated with Gabe first; now it seems like Carter brought this group into their lives. Carter is much easier on Elizabeth now -- she won't call her "Mom" but she's stopped actively trying to antagonize her. Carter's actually starting to forget Lori sometimes. This is stuff I expected to see eventually, but it feels like the writers are trying to condense a couple of seasons worth of story lines into one shortened season, and I think they're really missing out by skipping over so much of Carter's initial integration into the family. I'm pretty sure this is building to Lori approaching Carter and telling her it's time to leave and Carter choosing to stay with her real family, and it's too soon for that.

 

I'm starting to hate David. I rolled my eyes at all of that bullshit about how buying things makes him feel better about himself. He's spending money he doesn't have and trying to guilt-trip his wife when she's the one being responsible! That whole speech was a big passive-aggressive load of crap, from the "I can see I'm pushing buttons here; I'm not trying to" through "I want to make it up to you; it's all I've been thinking about" to "I was hoping that [buying the car] would help how you feel about me." He bought that car so the kids would continue to think of him as the fun, cool parent. That comment to Max and Grant ("If I'm not back in two days, send a search party") was also inappropriate -- he shouldn't be painting his wife as the bad guy all the time.

 

Gabe is also still annoying, and I'm disappointed that it looks like he and Carter could end up together. His entitled attitude and the "nice guy" shtick (everything nice he does, he does with the goal of getting into her pants, and then he bitches to his friend when Carter dares to spend time with someone else) are really offputting. I saw some comments elsewhere online from fans who think he's perfect and that Carter is blind and crazy for not jumping him whenever possible, and that made me sad.

[Kromm]

Its like this show strives for Carter and her father to be completely unlikeable. 

 

The contrived drama over Bird's painting was just ridiculous. Poor Carter can't stand being the center of attention all of a sudden when she's been pushing herself as the center of attention for weeks now. Girl Bye!  And why did Bird post them all around the school? I thought they were going to say it was because Bird and Crash used to mess around but nope they never said that in this episode.  Instead they seemed to try and paint her as crazy and possibly having a crush on Carter. This was just some lame excuse to have a catfight scene. 

 

That sweet moment between Max and Elizabeth has so far trumped any of the moments between any of the members of that family. Max has more depth than Carter does.

 

I do not care about that nut job Lori and like Max pointed out how is she rolling around that town when the police are searching for her?

 

I hate the father. I can see why Elizabeth was cheating on him. Its like he goes out of his way to paint her as the bad guy. He isn't even bringing home checks to house but is telling the girl's they can get a new car. 

 

These writers seem determined to paint Elizabeth as the bad one. 

 

This whole episode felt like a filler episode until the last 5 minutes. It took 4 episodes to make about 2 minutes of progress.

I don't agree.  While everything in this episode was as super-contrived as the others, I think they reversed the targets completely.  Elizabeth was really humanized with her dealings with Max in this one--she was outright likable.  The father was still slimy, yes, but at least they shored up his motive somewhat as being a desperate need to "provide".  It doesn't excuse his actions in the least, but it at least colors in the picture a bit.  And Carter I think came off pretty well in this episode. Sure she freaks out, but I couldn't find it in me to disagree with why, and I think we saw that she could be both forgiving, as well as determined.  Putting aside the fact that the contrivance gets worse and worse every episode, I actually think this was a very good one around those limitations.

[RachelKM]

Yes, I think the worries people expressed after Episode 1 of the show "justifying" Lori are pretty totally unglued by this episode.  It doesn't leave you with much doubt that she's totally looney tunes.

It seems more delusional than twisted in a more overt way.  It's someone who's constructed an entire reality to support her point of view.  

I agree.  And it was clear that Max (who has been portrayed as emotionally perceptive, if not generally smart) was weirded out by her behavior and plans.   And just because it bares stating whenever I think about him, I adore Max (and Alex Saxon)

 

It seems like the writers are still trying to figure out what to do with these characters, or that they're rushing character development and having most of it happen off-screen. Elizabeth has backed off a little and learned to let things (like the impromptu tent sleepover) go. She also didn't even mention Lori in this episode. Carter and Taylor are apparently getting along fine now, no competing over boys at all. They apparently forgot about Taylor being friends with/infatuated with Gabe first; now it seems like Carter brought this group into their lives. Carter is much easier on Elizabeth now -- she won't call her "Mom" but she's stopped actively trying to antagonize her. Carter's actually starting to forget Lori sometimes. This is stuff I expected to see eventually, but it feels like the writers are trying to condense a couple of seasons worth of story lines into one shortened season, and I think they're really missing out by skipping over so much of Carter's initial integration into the family. I'm pretty sure this is building to Lori approaching Carter and telling her it's time to leave and Carter choosing to stay with her real family, and it's too soon for that.

 

I'm starting to hate David. I rolled my eyes at all of that bullshit about how buying things makes him feel better about himself. He's spending money he doesn't have and trying to guilt-trip his wife when she's the one being responsible! That whole speech was a big passive-aggressive load of crap, from the "I can see I'm pushing buttons here; I'm not trying to" through "I want to make it up to you; it's all I've been thinking about" to "I was hoping that [buying the car] would help how you feel about me." He bought that car so the kids would continue to think of him as the fun, cool parent. That comment to Max and Grant ("If I'm not back in two days, send a search party") was also inappropriate -- he shouldn't be painting his wife as the bad guy all the time.

 

Gabe is also still annoying, and I'm disappointed that it looks like he and Carter could end up together. His entitled attitude and the "nice guy" shtick (everything nice he does, he does with the goal of getting into her pants, and then he bitches to his friend when Carter dares to spend time with someone else) are really offputting. I saw some comments elsewhere online from fans who think he's perfect and that Carter is blind and crazy for not jumping him whenever possible, and that made me sad.

I agree with all of this.  And the Gabe thing is really starting to bother. It initially seemed like the show was going to have Carter continue to avoid his attentions, but nope.  I hate the idea of them rewarding his behavior.  And Carter's initial refusal to consider dating him was the only thing she did that made her seem like less of an asshole in the pilot.

[FAU]

 

I don't agree.  While everything in this episode was as super-contrived as the others, I think they reversed the targets completely.  Elizabeth was really humanized with her dealings with Max in this one--she was outright likable.  The father was still slimy, yes, but at least they shored up his motive somewhat as being a desperate need to "provide".  It doesn't excuse his actions in the least, but it at least colors in the picture a bit.  And Carter I think came off pretty well in this episode. Sure she freaks out, but I couldn't find it in me to disagree with why, and I think we saw that she could be both forgiving, as well as determined.  Putting aside the fact that the contrivance gets worse and worse every episode, I actually think this was a very good one around those limitations.

 

It was pretty much similar only the conflict involved someone else other than Elizabeth, next week seems like more of the same with Carter back on the Lori bandwagon.  This episode just felt like the writers took a short break and then put things back by the end for the next episode.

 

 

It seems like the writers are still trying to figure out what to do with these characters, or that they're rushing character development and having most of it happen off-screen. Elizabeth has backed off a little and learned to let things (like the impromptu tent sleepover) go. She also didn't even mention Lori in this episode. Carter and Taylor are apparently getting along fine now, no competing over boys at all. They apparently forgot about Taylor being friends with/infatuated with Gabe first; now it seems like Carter brought this group into their lives. Carter is much easier on Elizabeth now -- she won't call her "Mom" but she's stopped actively trying to antagonize her. Carter's actually starting to forget Lori sometimes. This is stuff I expected to see eventually, but it feels like the writers are trying to condense a couple of seasons worth of story lines into one shortened season, and I think they're really missing out by skipping over so much of Carter's initial integration into the family. I'm pretty sure this is building to Lori approaching Carter and telling her it's time to leave and Carter choosing to stay with her real family, and it's too soon for that.

 

I'm starting to hate David. I rolled my eyes at all of that bullshit about how buying things makes him feel better about himself. He's spending money he doesn't have and trying to guilt-trip his wife when she's the one being responsible! That whole speech was a big passive-aggressive load of crap, from the "I can see I'm pushing buttons here; I'm not trying to" through "I want to make it up to you; it's all I've been thinking about" to "I was hoping that [buying the car] would help how you feel about me." He bought that car so the kids would continue to think of him as the fun, cool parent. That comment to Max and Grant ("If I'm not back in two days, send a search party") was also inappropriate -- he shouldn't be painting his wife as the bad guy all the time.

 

Gabe is also still annoying, and I'm disappointed that it looks like he and Carter could end up together. His entitled attitude and the "nice guy" shtick (everything nice he does, he does with the goal of getting into her pants, and then he bitches to his friend when Carter dares to spend time with someone else) are really offputting. I saw some comments elsewhere online from fans who think he's perfect and that Carter is blind and crazy for not jumping him whenever possible, and that made me sad.

 

The pacing, characters, storytelling, etc. it just feels so awkwardly put together.  All those things you've mentioned aren't believeable with the way things are being played out because they're not being developed the way it should be.

 

 

Yes, I think the worries people expressed after Episode 1 of the show "justifying" Lori are pretty totally unglued by this episode.  It doesn't leave you with much doubt that she's totally looney tunes.

 

Or that Carter was in 'denial' bs, otherwise she wouldn't have temporarily forgotten about Lori.

 

But that's not the only thing it unglues:

 

 

I think it's potentially good that Faux-Mom was too permissive.  That provides the hook they eventually need to show her as dysfunctional. 

 

The key is finding a clever way to get the girl to realize this. 

 

I can't say that having Bio-Mom be a heavy-handed, insensitive control freak, and the kid showing her up on it, is necessarily the right way to go.  But it's probably not an unsolvable character problem. Yet.

 

Clearly not, it only created more unnecessary problems for the characters and the writers, brushed across important moments where Carter should be adjusting and dealing with her situation appropriately as well as affecting other characters and how they're awkwardly portrayed.

Edited July 25, 2014 by FAU

[Kromm]

Speaking of contrivance, wasn't it SO convenient that Elizabeth's parents just HAPPEN to be Country Club Rich.  It makes the whole storyline with what Asshole Dad is doing more about his pride.  I mean again, I do think the show at least tried to show his desperation, which was better than simply having him betray everyone's trust, but the flip side is that it also showed that if the family really NEEDED money... they could have it. 

[FAU]

Speaking of contrivance, wasn't it SO convenient that Elizabeth's parents just HAPPEN to be Country Club Rich.  It makes the whole storyline with what Asshole Dad is doing more about his pride.  I mean again, I do think the show at least tried to show his desperation, which was better than simply having him betray everyone's trust, but the flip side is that it also showed that if the family really NEEDED money... they could have it. 

 

Even if it was desperate, it's underhanded, especially by trying to be the cool dad while Elizabeth gets to be painted the bad guy in the family while going behind their back to profit off their tragedy, it benefits him the most.

 

Contrivances are never a good thing and this series is a good example of terribly contrived drama.

 

There's a lot of could've/should've that can be used to desperately defend everything about this series, that doesn't necessarily make them any good.

[Cranberry]

Oh, one other example of how they're trying to move things along too quickly -- Max was gone for what, a third of an episode? The writers wanted to have that cute/awkward goodbye scene with Max and Taylor (and Grant), and they also wanted to have Max return and reveal that he's back to stay, delighting Taylor -- I get that, and that's fine. But those two scenes shouldn't have happened in a single episode!

 

There's a lot of could've/should've that can be used to desperately defend everything about this series, that doesn't necessarily make them any good.

 

I don't think anyone's trying to "desperately defend" anything. We're being critical, which means we discuss the aspects we like and the ones we don't and explain why we think they work or don't work. Personally, I neither love nor hate this show -- I find it middling so far.

[In2You]

If asshole dad really cared about his pride and providing for his family he would have gone out and found a job instead of just sitting on his ass at home waiting for his next bestseller book.

[FAU]

 

Oh, one other example of how they're trying to move things along too quickly -- Max was gone for what, a third of an episode? The writers wanted to have that cute/awkward goodbye scene with Max and Taylor (and Grant), and they also wanted to have Max return and reveal that he's back to stay, delighting Taylor -- I get that, and that's fine. But those two scenes shouldn't have happened in a single episode!

 

A lot of things happened in this episode but because of the pacing and how rushed it was, it didn't have any impact on the characters because it wasn't developed properly.

 

 

I don't think anyone's trying to "desperately defend" anything. We're being critical, which means we discuss the aspects we like and the ones we don't and explain why we think they work or don't work. Personally, I neither love nor hate this show -- I find it middling so far.

 

It is when the 'at least the show didn't' excuses come out and I've seen it for other shows too.

 

 

If asshole dad really cared about his pride and providing for his family he would have gone out and found a job instead of just sitting on his ass at home waiting for his next bestseller book.

 

Yup and trying to be Mr. 'Cool' while promising to buy them things they're struggling to afford.

[Cranberry]

It is when the 'at least the show didn't' excuses come out and I've seen it for other shows too.

 

Ah. I tend to see that as more, "I guess it could have been worse" than, "The writing's good because they did this instead of that," but I'm sure each poster has a different intent when they say something like that. 

[candall]

Yeah, it's just a little MTV summer thing that attracted a lot of attention because the original premise was novel and interesting.

 

I, too, would have preferred it if they'd spent more time on the problems of reintegrating a lost member into an established family structure.

 

But I wanted Revolution to be about daily life in a world without power.  And Under The Dome to be about the crisis of suddenly limited resources.  Someone in The Walking Dead should have died of an abscessed tooth by now.  Always with the damn zombies.

 

(Why don't they ask me this stuff?  I'm not that hard to find.)

 

However, in this forum, each episode has a couple of pages of comments, with one or two thousand views, so the show seems to generate a decent amount of discussion just the way it is.

 

It's not setting my world on fire, but I like it well enough to be curious about what happens next. 

Edited July 25, 2014 by candall

[Kromm]

There's a lot of could've/should've that can be used to desperately defend everything about this series, that doesn't necessarily make them any good.

It is when the 'at least the show didn't' excuses come out and I've seen it for other shows too.

@FAU, honestly, while it's clear you are frustrated by the show, it sounds like you are also frustrated by people "desperately defending" it too. But I think defending the show is inevitable here, minus the desperation (which I just don't see, or feel I've done myself either--at least with any level of desperation I mean) unless and until we go into total "hate watch/snark" mode, and whatever the show's contrivance and deficiencies it's still a distance IMO from total hate watch territory (maybe eventually). Edited July 25, 2014 by Kromm

[FAU]

 

Yeah, it's just a little MTV summer thing that attracted a lot of attention because the original premise was novel and interesting.

 

I, too, would have preferred it if they'd spent more time on the problems of reintegrating a lost member into an established family structure.

 

Hence the disappointment and resulting criticism, the show itself doesn't have much to offer either since they decided to brush that aside.  With all the excuses, one would expect something special out of this series and yet it doesn't offer anything new or unique enough to warrant that.

 

 

Ah. I tend to see that as more, "I guess it could have been worse" than, "The writing's good because they did this instead of that," but I'm sure each poster has a different intent when they say something like that.

 

It's pretty much similar, but it's the same general idea in posting.  This is what you would say to make almost anything sound good or better than it actually is.

 

 

But I wanted Revolution to be about daily life in a world without power.  And Under The Dome to be about the crisis of suddenly limited resources.  Someone in The Walking Dead should have died of an abscessed tooth by now.  Always with the damn zombies.

 

And those shows wasted their premise and turned into terrible shows, which I've also posted in.  In TWD's case, it was a decline in quality.  Comparing this to other bad shows doesn't exactly make it any better either.

 

 

However, in this forum, each episode has a couple of pages of comments, with one or two thousand views, so the show seems to generate a decent amount of discussion just the way it is.

 

Which plenty of shows do as well, that's not really much of an excuse either, I guess I can also add this to the list of excuses for this series.

 

 

FAU, honestly, while it's clear you are frustrated by the show, it sounds like you are also frustrated by people "desperately defending" it too. But I think defending the show is inevitable here, minus the desperation (which I just don't see, or feel I've done myself either--at least with any level of desperation I mean) unless and until we go into total "hate watch/snark" mode, and whatever the show's contrivance and deficiencies it's still a distance IMO from total hate watch territory (maybe eventually).

 

I just find it fascinating how many excuses are thrown at a show like this, I've been to other forums for both good and bad shows so this type of reaction to fans such as yourself on these forums is much more interesting than the show itself.  It didn't even take long for people to come up with a lists of excuses in a short period of time defending this series, especially when it sounds more like people trying to make up long analysis trying to convince themselves that it's something better/deeper than it actually is.

Edited July 25, 2014 by FAU

[Cranberry]

Well, this is a TV forum. The entire purpose of this place is to discuss TV shows, and that discussion is going to include analysis and speculation about character motives and personalities. A show doesn't have to be deep to be fun/interesting to analyze. I haven't gotten the impression that anyone here thinks this show is a great work of art.

 

We don't have a "boards on boards" rule here like TWoP did, and I agree that it's interesting to discuss fandoms and fan impressions of shows. However, I'd like to ask all of you to be careful not to imply that your opinion is the one real truth (for example, by saying that other posters' opinions are "bs"), and not to ascribe motive to your fellow posters ("you're making excuses for this show because X" or "you're all desperately defending this show" or "you're writing these posts because you're trying to convince yourself that this crappy show doesn't suck"). Debate the points; don't insult the poster.

[Kromm]

Hence the disappointment and resulting criticism, the show itself doesn't have much to offer either since they decided to brush that aside.  With all the excuses, one would expect something special out of this series and yet it doesn't offer anything new or unique enough to warrant that.

 

 

It's pretty much similar, but it's the same general idea in posting.  This is what you would say to make almost anything sound good or better than it actually is.

 

 

And those shows wasted their premise and turned into terrible shows, which I've also posted in.  In TWD's case, it was a decline in quality.  Comparing this to other bad shows doesn't exactly make it any better either.

 

 

Which plenty of shows do as well, that's not really much of an excuse either, I guess I can also add this to the list of excuses for this series.

 

 

I just find it fascinating how many excuses are thrown at a show like this, I've been to other forums for both good and bad shows so this type of reaction to fans such as yourself on these forums is much more interesting than the show itself.  It didn't even take long for people to come up with a lists of excuses in a short period of time defending this series, especially when it sounds more like people trying to make up long analysis trying to convince themselves that it's something better/deeper than it actually is.

@FAU I'm trying to be nice about this, because you are starting to border on being pretty insulting.  Looking back at my own posts I've consistently admitted to massive faults with the show.  I don't see how countering those faults with some balance and saying that other pieces of the show DO work as "a list of excuses".  It's a flawed show, massively.  But the acting is actually not terrible between the contrivance, and I don't personally find the characters completely unbelievable--its just the situation and speed of them being thrust into stupid soap opera elements that's unbelievable. Having those opinions about some aspects is not "making excuses".  Making excuses would be to ignore the faults in my discussion, bolster the aspects that do work FAR over their actual importance, and/or take some kind of "I like what I like" attitude.  

 

To me this is a show that's barely functioning.  But it IS functioning nonetheless.  The contrivance sadly is all too common on shows like this, but if we roundly dismissed every single contrived show totally, then at a bare minimum the whole genre of family dramas/soaps would be eliminated from any intelligent discussion... like... ever.  

[dr pepper]

Agreed with the folks that think the show should be more Max. I'd like to see a show that was entirely from his pov with the others revolving around him. It would feature his voiceover comments. So in the first episode, he'd be working at the froyo counter.

VO: And there's Carter. She's a great girl, really easygoing and friends with everyone. That's her mom with her. She likes us to call her Lori. They're more like buddies than mother and daughter, don't you think? Sometimes, though, i think Lori is trying a bit too hard, like she's trying to forget something that's worrying her.

Then the amusement park. VO: Yeah, we're just a bunch of bored kids doing dumb things for fun. But we never let it get out of hand. Oops-- looks like this night is over!

Then the police station. Max: Hey Carter, do you know when your mom is coming? Carter: They won't tell me. They say i've got to talk to some people about something. The cops hustle her off.

Next day. Max and his family see Carter's story on the news.

Then the next few episodes could be about Max helping out other friends of his, or just lending a sympathetic ear. This would be punctuated with a scene of him getting a call from Carter, who would talk about her new experiences, school, family, new job at a yogurt joint. VO: In spite of herself, i think Carter is starting to fit in over there.

Episode 4 will have a news story about Lori coming to Carter's workplace and almost getting caught.

Episode 6 will have Lori approach Max and beg him to see Carter on her behalf. So he gets a temporary transfer to the other town's yogurt place. He talks to Carter about Lori's somewhat fuzzy plan for getting them both away. But he also meets the other5 half of the cast. He starts to get a connection with Taylor, helps the brother out with some adolescent crisis, consoles Bird on her issues, and deduces that the father is up to something.

Then he goes back home. Etc, etc.

[FAU]

@FAU I'm trying to be nice about this, because you are starting to border on being pretty insulting.  Looking back at my own posts I've consistently admitted to massive faults with the show.  I don't see how countering those faults with some balance and saying that other pieces of the show DO work as "a list of excuses".  It's a flawed show, massively.  But the acting is actually not terrible between the contrivance, and I don't personally find the characters completely unbelievable--its just the situation and speed of them being thrust into stupid soap opera elements that's unbelievable. Having those opinions about some aspects is not "making excuses".  Making excuses would be to ignore the faults in my discussion, bolster the aspects that do work FAR over their actual importance, and/or take some kind of "I like what I like" attitude.  

 

To me this is a show that's barely functioning.  But it IS functioning nonetheless.  The contrivance sadly is all too common on shows like this, but if we roundly dismissed every single contrived show totally, then at a bare minimum the whole genre of family dramas/soaps would be eliminated from any intelligent discussion... like... ever.  

 

I never said anything about the acting though, it's always the writing that I've focused on and it makes sense given that the problems are mainly there.

 

A show barely functioning is never a good thing because unless there is some sort of major turnaround where tptb realizes and course corrects the direction the series, it can only get worse form here.

 

Other family dramas have done a better job handling their characters by comparison and they're not wasting a good premise that they're struggling with like this one is.  As for soap operas, they're generally more overdramatic and ridiculous.  I'd say this series is more teen drama than soap even though it relies on the same contrived drama cliches.

[candall]

Agreed with the folks that think the show should be more Max. I'd like to see a show that was entirely from his pov with the others revolving around him. It would feature his voiceover comments. So in the first episode, he'd be working at the froyo counter.

VO: And there's Carter. She's a great girl, really easygoing and friends with everyone. That's her mom with her. She likes us to call her Lori. They're more like buddies than mother and daughter, don't you think? Sometimes, though, i think Lori is trying a bit too hard, like she's trying to forget something that's worrying her.

Then the amusement park. VO: Yeah, we're just a bunch of bored kids doing dumb things for fun. But we never let it get out of hand. Oops-- looks like this night is over!

Then the police station. Max: Hey Carter, do you know when your mom is coming? Carter: They won't tell me. They say i've got to talk to some people about something. The cops hustle her off.

Next day. Max and his family see Carter's story on the news.

Then the next few episodes could be about Max helping out other friends of his, or just lending a sympathetic ear. This would be punctuated with a scene of him getting a call from Carter, who would talk about her new experiences, school, family, new job at a yogurt joint. VO: In spite of herself, i think Carter is starting to fit in over there.

Episode 4 will have a news story about Lori coming to Carter's workplace and almost getting caught.

Episode 6 will have Lori approach Max and beg him to see Carter on her behalf. So he gets a temporary transfer to the other town's yogurt place. He talks to Carter about Lori's somewhat fuzzy plan for getting them both away. But he also meets the other5 half of the cast. He starts to get a connection with Taylor, helps the brother out with some adolescent crisis, consoles Bird on her issues, and deduces that the father is up to something.

Then he goes back home. Etc, etc.

You're not a Pepper, you're a Pepsi Max!

[Kromm]

To me the key is "is the show beyond repair".

 

I think its not.

 

While they can't pretend the contrivances already executed never happened, none of them have affected the status quo of the show in a way that can't be adjusted to something more reasonable.  For example, Elizabeth somehow being allowed to act as a cop on nabbing her own daughter's kidnapper, for example, is something it's possible to ease off of, and in fact have someone in that show world get in trouble for allowing.  The boy drama can just kind of be shrugged off, because the worst problem with it was the speed it developed, and once you are past that you are past that.  The "sympathy for the kidnapper" dilemma, I think they already started to move past.  Carter's own feelings on the matter of "who's Mom" is not something I ever found totally unbelievable, but the impression of some posters that she's been a total bitch about it is something the show can easily move past--she hasn't been so hateful I think that anything she's done is unforgivable yet.  

 

We're bound to get more contrivance, I'll bet. I can already see the writing on the wall where what the Dad is doing gets exposed to the family, and this somehow bonds Elizabeth and Carter in some way.  Then Faux-Mom gets arrested somewhere around the season ender, and the new closer relationship is shattered.  It's sure to be paint-by-numbers.  But will it be unwatchable?  That's what I'd debate.  

[David T. Cole]

Everyone simmer down. Deep breaths. Be nice. Ahhhhhh.

[Kromm]

Everyone simmer down. Deep breaths. Be nice. Ahhhhhh.

Zen moderation?

[FAU]

To me the key is "is the show beyond repair".

 

I think its not.

 

While they can't pretend the contrivances already executed never happened, none of them have affected the status quo of the show in a way that can't be adjusted to something more reasonable.  For example, Elizabeth somehow being allowed to act as a cop on nabbing her own daughter's kidnapper, for example, is something it's possible to ease off of, and in fact have someone in that show world get in trouble for allowing.  The boy drama can just kind of be shrugged off, because the worst problem with it was the speed it developed, and once you are past that you are past that.  The "sympathy for the kidnapper" dilemma, I think they already started to move past.  Carter's own feelings on the matter of "who's Mom" is not something I ever found totally unbelievable, but the impression of some posters that she's been a total bitch about it is something the show can easily move past--she hasn't been so hateful I think that anything she's done is unforgivable yet.  

 

We're bound to get more contrivance, I'll bet. I can already see the writing on the wall where what the Dad is doing gets exposed to the family, and this somehow bonds Elizabeth and Carter in some way.  Then Faux-Mom gets arrested somewhere around the season ender, and the new closer relationship is shattered.  It's sure to be paint-by-numbers.  But will it be unwatchable?  That's what I'd debate.  

 

It's not just the contrivances or cliches that this series is riddled with, it's that it doesn't even try to come up with something new or unique despite the fact that the premise alone should've provided something new, interesting, and unique for a series like this and yet they've done almost everything they can to avoid it: having the main character barely even care about it at all, having the other characters going along with it, dumping in contrived drama just for the sake of it, etc.  Once you shrug and brush everything off like the writers did with this premise, this show is left with almost nothing.

Edited July 25, 2014 by FAU

[maraleia]

Yes let's remember this is just a TV show peeps and some showrunners just aren't that good at their jobs which happens in every profession.

[Brian Cronin]

The only thing that really gets me is that Elizabeth and David don't seem like they really should be married (with her cheating and his general awfulness to her), which is fair enough, except that that's not a very good set-up for a show, right? Carter splitting time with her divorced parents? That doesn't work, so they have to keep them married and that's where I can't fathom how they can make it so that Elizabeth and David staying married makes any sense.

[FAU]

The only thing that really gets me is that Elizabeth and David don't seem like they really should be married (with her cheating and his general awfulness to her), which is fair enough, except that that's not a very good set-up for a show, right? Carter splitting time with her divorced parents? That doesn't work, so they have to keep them married and that's where I can't fathom how they can make it so that Elizabeth and David staying married makes any sense.

 

Exactly, but like I said, it's more contrived drama they threw in there.  They're not interested in actually setting things up properly.

[Kromm]

The only thing that really gets me is that Elizabeth and David don't seem like they really should be married (with her cheating and his general awfulness to her), which is fair enough, except that that's not a very good set-up for a show, right? Carter splitting time with her divorced parents? That doesn't work, so they have to keep them married and that's where I can't fathom how they can make it so that Elizabeth and David staying married makes any sense.

And yet while it may be questionable how to proceed with it on a show, it may actually be one of the few realistic things in this whole setup.  Not the affair and the book writing and the mom who also happens to be a cop, and all that bullcrap, but the whole idea that couples put through a child abduction often have their marriages turn to crap.  It's yet another example of how the ideas behind the show aren't bad, it's just the execution that's questionable. 

 

Again, I don't rate the current status quo as anything that's unfix-able.  The long-range plan of the show doesn't even really necessitate having the family stay together.  Alexis Denisof is only third billed, so part of me wonders if this has always been there as a back door to get him off the show once he serves a purpose (bonding Elizabeth and Carter through mutually screwing them both over).  And yes, that's super-soap-operay.  He could be shuffled to off-screen-land and only brought back later as a guest star to stir things up again.  So the divorced parents thing might be on purpose, not something they'll have to magically overcome to keep the show the same.  Shows like this like to fuck with the status quo--they don't WANT to keep it the same.  And that's why this is more of a soap than a drama, I guess. I think that's the key here to being able to bear this.  If you came in expecting a realistic drama, then you're screwed.  If you came in thinking "hey, it's on MTV, it's probably going to be some kind of teen/family soap" (I'd expect this even more on ABC Family, but MTV is usually in that area too), then I doubt it seems like it's as much of a total wash.