S02.E07: Chapter Fifteen - The Believer

[pezgirl7]

I watched this episode three times on Friday, and two more times this weekend, but am finally getting around to posting about it. Despite the baby not being in it, it was one of the best episodes. Although I did have to hand wave a few of the things for the sake of the story. When Mando took off his helmet, I was like Noooo, but also Yessss, because of Pedro. 😊  How sucky that the first person to ever see his face as an adult was that Empire scum. Mando looked so uncomfortable and unsure. He probably felt like everyone was staring at him, and he didn't know what to do with his face. He was willing to forsake his "way" for the child, and if he doesn't refer to the child as "my son" in the next episode, I will very sad.

The fight scene on top of the juggernaut was really well done, and I liked that Mando was moaning in pain afterwards. He really is such a great fighter and just doesn't give up. When the second wave of fighters came, and he looked so tired, he still stood up and put his fists up. It reminded me of when he was fighting the mud horn, and although he had no energy left, he still sat up and held up his knife. He's not going to go out quietly.

I didn't like Mayfeld in season one, and thought it was a bad casting choice. He just didn't seem to fit in the Star Wars universe. But for some reason, I really enjoyed his character in this episode. He was funny and Bill Burr did some great acting in the cafeteria scene. He was one of the most hated characters because he dropped the baby, but they somehow redeemed him in just one episode! I had to pause the show after the TPS report line because I was laughing so hard! It was just so out of left field.

The inside of Boba's ship was really cool, and I liked the new paint job on his armor. I'm hoping Mando never paints his armor though. It looks best in it's original silver color.

Edited December 14, 2020 by pezgirl7

[Capricasix]

Mando and the juggernaut fight made me think a little bit of Daredevil, and how he was frequently shown to be physically exhausted after a big fight but would still keep going until all the bad guys were down - I’m thinking in particular of the hallway fight scene in the first season.

[paigow]

On 12/11/2020 at 10:05 PM, rwlevin said:

I thought it was hilarious Mayfield mentioned those damn TPS reports to get away from his former boss.

Hess: TPS Reports were replaced last month...Guards!

[Writing Wrongs]

On 12/12/2020 at 12:32 AM, Zuleikha said:

I was very impressed by Burr's facial acting here. I felt like I was watching a rage temperature gauge steadily rise. 

I admit I got a bit teary eyed watching him struggle. Damn good acting.

[bethy]

A couple of people have already noted this, but the use of “his kid” to describe Grogu and Din’s acceptance of it was so fun to see.
 

I’ve noticed, especially this year, how much Din talks to the Child - tells him what they’re doing and where they’re going, what the plans are. I find it so sweet and parental, like when you’re in a car with a young child and you just chat with it even when it’s not of an age to really understand or respond. Today I started rewatching from the beginning (don’t judge me) and in the second episode, the first episode with Mando and the Child together, the only thing Mando says to the Child is “Hey! Drop that!” when the baby puts the frog in his mouth. And the baby completely ignores him (doesn’t understand him?) and swallows it. So much growth for both of them. Grogu is Din’s kid and I think he’s beginning to recognize and accept it.

Actually it might be more accurate to say he’s already accepted it with this episode.

Edited December 14, 2020 by bethy

[formerlyfreedom]

I've watched this episode twice more - it's just that good. Bill Burr is so much better than I found him in the Season One episode. Din and Mayfeld are so great together, Mayfeld with all his oversized energy, and Din just...watching. And my mom, who has been watching with my stepfather (and really not paying attention honestly) GREATLY appreciated my spoilers about this episode - she especially liked the pictures of Din without a helmet. 😉 She will enjoy watching this one, knowing what's coming!

[Capricasix]

Yeah, I’ve watched it three times as well 😄

[FnkyChkn34]

11 hours ago, Capricasix said:

Yeah, I’ve watched it three times as well 😄

I'm up to 3 or 4 also... 🙂  

I can't wait for Friday!!  Eeek!

[joanne3482]

On 12/12/2020 at 12:26 PM, Llywela said:

We have seen clearly over the last two seasons that there are most definitely not many occasions when Din would remove the helmet to save a life. What we have seen, however, are many occasions when removing the helmet would have made Din's life a hell of a lot easier and more comfortable but he still chose not to do it, no matter what - heck, we've seen that he was prepared to die of a treatable injury rather than have another living being see his face. The show has gone out of its way to show us how important it is to him to not let anyone see his face, ever, and it did that so that we would understand the full weight of the moment when he finally did. Far from being pointless, that was in fact the entire point. It's a narrative trope. The pay-off is the point of the set-up, not vice versa.

I wonder too if meeting Mandalorians who don't subscribe to the helmet belief system helped open up his mind to other possibilities of "the way."  Like growing up in any super religious sect he had no idea you could still be a Mandalorian but have relaxed rules about things like the face (kind of how a person can be a Mormon without having to be the prairie dress, polygamist, living on a crazy compound version).  It seems like a way to introduce him to the possibility that "the way" isn't the ONLY way and we could end up seeing his face more. 

[raven]

12 hours ago, Capricasix said:

Yeah, I’ve watched it three times as well 😄

 

52 minutes ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

I'm up to 3 or 4 also... 🙂  

I can't wait for Friday!!  Eeek!

Count me in!  I've watched both seasons a few times.  I'm an addict 😆

[Llywela]

23 minutes ago, joanne3482 said:

I wonder too if meeting Mandalorians who don't subscribe to the helmet belief system helped open up his mind to other possibilities of "the way."  Like growing up in any super religious sect he had no idea you could still be a Mandalorian but have relaxed rules about things like the face (kind of how a person can be a Mormon without having to be the prairie dress, polygamist, living on a crazy compound version).  It seems like a way to introduce him to the possibility that "the way" isn't the ONLY way and we could end up seeing his face more. 

It's possible - and I'm sure we'd all love to see it, so fingers crossed! 😄  And that still wouldn't negate the point of introducing the strict regime in the first place, because it would represent positive character growth. 🙂

[tennisgurl]

13 hours ago, saoirse said:

I've watched this episode twice more

It gets better every time! Three times for me! 

[pezgirl7]

1 hour ago, joanne3482 said:

I wonder too if meeting Mandalorians who don't subscribe to the helmet belief system helped open up his mind to other possibilities of "the way." 

I think it has. I read a post somewhere else that theorized that the title of this episode, The Believer, was about Din, and him reprioritizing his beliefs/religion. In The Sin, he traded the child for his beskar, essentially choosing his religion over the child, which was a sin. But in this episode, he chose the child over his religion. 

I think I'm up to 5 views for this episode, maybe 6. 😝

Edited December 15, 2020 by pezgirl7

[bethy]

20 minutes ago, pezgirl7 said:

I think it has. I read a post somewhere else that theorized that the title of this episode, The Believer, was about Din, and him reprioritizing his beliefs/religion. In The Sin, he traded the child for his beskar, essentially choosing his religion over the child, which was a sin. But in this episode, he chose the child over his religion. 

I think I'm up to 5 views for this episode, maybe 6. 😝

It seems like, in the Mandalorian religion Din was raised in, there’s not any provision for love. It’s a religion of duty - this is the way. His relationship with and love for Grogu is changing how Din thinks about the rules he’s followed and “believed” in. In my mind, gratefulness and a desire to have some control - by rigidly following the rules - have tied Din to the religion of the group that saved him and raised him. Loving Grogu, as well as meeting Mandalorians with different practices, have opened him up to a different way of doing things and new priorities. 
 

I dig it.

[FnkyChkn34]

If Disney+ had a counter for how many times I've watched and re-watched the entire series, I think mine would just say "Don't you think that's enough already?" 🤣🤣  But they want my money and I want the cuteness, so it's all good. 😉

[bethy]

Right? Instead of the “Are you still watching?” message from Netflix, mine would say, “Really? Again?”

[Capricasix]

Hess’s bit about the New Republic falling to pieces, and the people crawling back to the Empire when they realized that they wanted order, reminded me of Loki’s speech in the Avengers: 

Quote

Is not this simpler? Is this not your natural state? It's the unspoken truth of humanity, that you crave subjugation. The bright lure of freedom diminishes your life's joy in a mad scramble for power, for identity. You were made to be ruled. In the end, you will always kneel.

 

[raven]

Watched it again.

Love Din's helmet hair 😆

[laprin]

I really need my Grogu fix in the finale episode. 

[mledawn]

 

On 12/13/2020 at 10:08 PM, pezgirl7 said:

I didn't like Mayfeld in season one, and thought it was a bad casting choice. He just didn't seem to fit in the Star Wars universe. But for some reason, I really enjoyed his character in this episode. He was funny and Bill Burr did some great acting in the cafeteria scene. He was one of the most hated characters because he dropped the baby, but they somehow redeemed him in just one episode! I had to pause the show after the TPS report line because I was laughing so hard! It was just so out of left field.

This. Bill Burr seemed massively out of place in his previous episode, so this was definitely redemption in my eyes. Great job.

[CeeBeeGee]

On 12/11/2020 at 8:14 AM, Llywela said:

First opportunity? He's taken off his helmet exactly twice in the entire show so far. We're near the end of the second season and this is the first time a living being has seen his face. That hardly counts as taking it off at the first opportunity. On the contrary, Din removing his helmet here was used perfectly to underscore how very desperate he is to get the child back, that this is his kid and this is how far he'll go to save him. The removal of his helmet was set up as sacred precisely for such a moment as this. Far from undermining it, this was the payoff of that set-up.

This this THIS

This show is about Mando and the Baby.

On 12/11/2020 at 8:51 AM, SnoGirl said:

Still bummed that Gina ruined me liking Cara because seeing two women together, sharpshooting to protect the getaway would have been awesome. Oh well. Still love Fennec. 

Loved Din’s threat at the end...and for a moment of badassery, I’m kinda shocked he gave away the element of surprise. Gideon might have thought Din wouldn’t chase him-he didn’t even fly (we know why) after the Dark Troopers last time they saw each other. Gideon might have been on the fence or doubting Din would chase after Grogu. Din might have had a slight element of surprise.

I'm so, SO disappointed that I can't just enjoy Cara Dune unreservedly because of the actress. Because I LOVE her--she is so badass and I don't even mind the awkward acting. The scene where she and Fennec were just--BADASS together is so awesome. 

I was also surprised that Mando showed his hand like that. As awesome as it was, he's given away the element of surprise. He'd better have a plan in mind.

On 12/11/2020 at 6:49 PM, paigow said:

This could turn into The Fresh Prince Of Man-Air. Din joins mainstream Mandalorian society, Grogu goes to a fancy private school and struggles to fit in....

Innnnnn...

West Coruscant I was born and raised/In the temple was where I spent most of my days...

 

[MisterGlass]

I'm okay with the idea of Mando eventually removing his helmet in defense of the child, but I thought this was a clunky way to force the issue, starting with the overt dialogue from Mayfield early on.  A facial scan is required but counts for nothing?  Mayfield is afraid of being recognized by the officer, but then immediately goes up and starts a conversation with him after attention has already been drawn?  And imperials use computers all the time with helmets on.  Those combined exceed my handwave capacity.

A better intermediate step would have been to have the terminal facing away from the others, so that Mando could nervously remove his helmet without technically showing his face, then quickly get it back on before turning around.  That would have been more tense to me.  I would still want an in-show explanation of why a facial scan is needed.  This could have made

Spoiler

The first real reveal of his face be to the child in Episode 2.8, and by choice instead of necessity.

 

Edited January 3, 2021 by MisterGlass
Tag error

[FnkyChkn34]

On 1/3/2021 at 12:19 AM, MisterGlass said:

I'm okay with the idea of Mando eventually removing his helmet in defense of the child, but I thought this was a clunky way to force the issue, starting with the overt dialogue from Mayfield early on.  A facial scan is required but counts for nothing?  Mayfield is afraid of being recognized by the officer, but then immediately goes up and starts a conversation with him after attention has already been drawn?  And imperials use computers all the time with helmets on.  Those combined exceed my handwave capacity.

A better intermediate step would have been to have the terminal facing away from the others, so that Mando could nervously remove his helmet without technically showing his face, then quickly get it back on before turning around.  That would have been more tense to me.  I would still want an in-show explanation of why a facial scan is needed.  This could have made

  Reveal spoiler

The first real reveal of his face be to the child in Episode 2.8, and by choice instead of necessity.

 

I think this episode was all about sacrifices and improvising - they both did what they had to do.  Mando had to take off his helmet to save Grogu, and Mayfeld had to talk to someone who might recognize him to save Mando.  

Someone earlier explained the facial recognition - it scanned their face as like a no-fly list.  It was looking for known enemies, not necessarily members of the organization.  

[paigow]

On 1/2/2021 at 1:03 AM, CeeBeeGee said:

Innnnnn...

West Coruscant I was born and raised/In the temple was where I spent most of my days...

Then a couple of Siths

who were up to no good

started making trouble

in my neighbourhood

[lucindabelle]

This episode was awesome!

I loved that they... were wrong about mayfield. He fucking HATES the empire.

The Vietnam refs were everywhere: it was a jungle climate, the people had been colonized by different powers for centuries, the people were Asian looking and wore sarongs...

Hess sounded southern, like a baddie in a Vietnam film.

loved Mayfeld pointing out his whole unit died... “was it good for them?”

also! LOVED seeing things from the “common man” stormtrooper POV- how this time it was TIE fighters as cavalry, how stormtroopers saluted. We get to see these guys as not especially evil just enlisted men which sets us up well mayfeld’s rage at their slaughter (though by blowing up the base he kills everyone in it but we know it’s in service of a greater good).

And by the time he does that he knows despite what he said the empire and the new republic are NOT the same.

I hope he finds some friends on planet Vietnam.

much as I loved mandos callback message as drama I can’t help feeling it was putting Grogu in jeopardy.

Edited January 18, 2021 by lucindabelle

[Capricasix]

As much as I liked the finale, I think this episode is my favourite of the season. I agree with everything in your post, Lucindabelle! I think I’ve watched it about five times now 😄

[John Potts]

I guess they’re really pushing the “Republic aren’t so good” line – hard(ish) labour enforced with shock sticks isn’t exactly what I’d expect from them.

I’m sure there’s a good reason Mando alerted Moff Fring he was going to attack.

On 12/11/2020 at 9:22 AM, paigow said:

Imperial facial recognition software is useless...Mando can not be in the database as a trooper...so ACCESS GRANTED!

Don’t know why everyone else was so worried about it. “Yep, they’ve got a face! Good enough for this Security check!” If I was being charitable, I suppose it’s possible he’s the clone of a trooper (and had learned that at some point).

On 12/11/2020 at 1:53 PM, raven said:

I wasn't sure if Mayfeld would get killed off (glad he didn't), though I was sure he was going to shoot the Imp. 

Very surprised he didn’t either betray Mando or die. Also, "The Imp" had me going, "Wait - Peter Dinklage was in this!?" (let's face it, it could easily happen).

On 12/12/2020 at 2:17 PM, paigow said:

Note to Pirates: Try using the tunnel as a kill box.

Note to Empire: Try escorting the trucks all the way from the mine to the refinery with those Tie Fighters.

I did wonder why the pirates didn't just mine the entrance (or exit) to the tunnel. Given how unstable the fuel seemed to be, even a small explosion would take out the whole shipment. It didn't seem like the Empire were keeping it under observation (considering how our heroes managed to heist the truck without them noticing) - which they absolutely should be able to do.

I assume the pirates are trying to drive the Imperials off the planet so they can keep all the fuel for themselves. In that situation, you're aiming to make extracting the ore expensive (prohibitively so) with the aim of claiming it all in the future. It's why real world terrorists today blow up pipelines - short term loss for long term gain.

On 12/12/2020 at 7:44 PM, callmebetty said:

He's use to his strength getting him out of situations,  but he needs to work on cover stories and deflection banter.

He probably took Charisma as his dump Stat to boost his Dex & Con!

[Camera One]

I wasn't looking forward to an episode with Mayfield (I really disliked him in his Season 1 appearance), but they really surprised me with how much he added to this episode.  He brought a different perspective as ex-Imperial and he was a good foil for Mando.  It was fun to see them push each other/work together.   Mando fighting without his usual armour and tech was also different.

I agree the face-scanning terminal requirement was a bit flimsy and Mayfield was being stupid by coming out of the truck without his helmet on.  He could have removed his helmet to scan at the machine while Mando could have blocked his view from his old supervisor.  Still, it was a great setup for Mando showing his face, and that was satisfying and resulted in an amusing scene with the three of them having a "drink".

I liked watching Cara and Fennec working together too, though Fennec is still a bit of a cipher.  They seemed to be testing the chemistry between Cara and Mayfield, maybe for a possible spinoff.

Edited July 14, 2022 by Camera One