S04.E03: Fairytale

[swanpride]

The slouch is overdone, but I wouldn't claim that Charles has a great posture in RL.

[AZChristian]

14 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Charles has spent much of his life on horses.  People who ride horses regularly generally have great posture.

IRL there wasn't that much difference in their heights, especially when Diana was wearing heels.

Maybe he was hunched over from looking down for his polo ball??

They were the same height - 5'8".  In the pictures where he appears taller, he's usually standing on a step.

[andromeda331]

Poor Diana she really had no one. The bulimia scenes were hard to watch but I'm glad they put them in. Charles couldn't come off less interest in marriage if he wanted too. Refusing to kneel, sending her home after proposing, his answer in the interview, leaving afterwards, not calling Diana once during the six weeks and lying to her about coming back early so he can spend it with the woman he does love. Asking her to give Camilla ring? Yeah, that's a good idea. Camilla was definitely marking her territory during the lunch.

I'm sure it probably didn't happen in real life but I'm glad Margaret said something. You also have to love how the ones pushing forward it and thinking it will work out are the ones who ended up in a happy marriage. Elizabeth gives the story to Charles about his great-grandmother but Elizabeth got to marry the man she wanted. The Queen Mum also had a happy marriage (although she seems to have amnesia at how many times she turned down Bertie before finally accepting). Its easy to say its always been done when your not the one who actually has to do it.  The show does a good job showing how stupid it is though. A hundred or so years ago it was more important for Kings and Heirs to marry well for diplomatic reasons and stuff, for the good of the kingdom and both heirs and whoever they married usually had no choice in the matter. But 1980? None of those reasons existed. They forced Charles to marry the "proper" one for reasons that no longer existed. The world would not have ended if he married Camilla. The days of choosing the "proper" one were already over for most royal families. It shows how out of touch the BRF really was.     

You have to love the Queen, Queen Mum and Anne sitting around waiting to hear about the proposal, excited about it and disappointed when it wasn't as romantic as they hoped when they know very well that Charles isn't in love with Diana. 

Edited November 29, 2020 by andromeda331

[Roseanna]

1 hour ago, andromeda331 said:

Poor Diana she really had no one.

So she recalled, but it wasn't like that IRL.

[Clanstarling]

5 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Poor Diana she really had no one. The bulimia scenes were hard to watch but I'm glad they put them in. Charles couldn't come off less interest in marriage if he wanted too. Refusing to kneel, sending her home after proposing, his answer in the interview, leaving afterwards, not calling Diana once during the six weeks and lying to her about coming back early so he can spend it with the woman he does love. Asking her to give Camilla ring? Yeah, that's a good idea. Camilla was definitely marking her territory during the lunch.

I'm sure it probably didn't happen in real life but I'm glad Margaret said something. You also have to love how the ones pushing forward it and thinking it will work out are the ones who ended up in a happy marriage. Elizabeth gives the story to Charles about his great-grandmother but Elizabeth got to marry the man she wanted. The Queen Mum also had a happy marriage (although she seems to have amnesia at how many times she turned down Bertie before finally accepting). Its easy to say its always been done when your not the one who actually has to do it.  The show does a good job showing how stupid it is though. A hundred or so years ago it was more important for Kings and Heirs to marry well for diplomatic reasons and stuff, for the good of the kingdom and both heirs and whoever they married usually had no choice in the matter. But 1980? None of those reasons existed. They forced Charles to marry the "proper" one for reasons that no longer existed. The world would not have ended if he married Camilla. The days of choosing the "proper" one were already over for most royal families. It shows how out of touch the BRF really was.     

You have to love the Queen, Queen Mum and Anne sitting around waiting to hear about the proposal, excited about it and disappointed when it wasn't as romantic as they hoped when they know very well that Charles isn't in love with Diana. 

That is really an important point in all the pressure given to Charles - Elizabeth was able to marry the man she wanted. It's easy to ask someone to sacrifice themselves when you haven't had to.

[suomi]

On 11/18/2020 at 10:49 AM, MaggieG said:

Even though Margaret was the only one who brought up that the marriage was a bad idea, I still can't stand her. I know she's a spoiled princess, but does she really have to be so rude all the time? I still love HBC.

Willing to bet that "royal bitch" was coined with her in mind.

Kidding... I know the term precedes her. There's a book called 99 Glimpses of Princess Margaret. Oy!

On 11/21/2020 at 7:01 PM, CeeBeeGee said:

Oh my stars, her high-ruffled collar with the bow around it!!! We ALL wore that look, the bow looped around the collar, in 1981. Hello, my 8th grade self.

A pie crust collar (or sometimes a hem), aptly named.

On 11/23/2020 at 12:43 AM, buttersister said:

I was #TeamDiana

"It's too late now, Duch, your face is on the mugs."

On 11/26/2020 at 8:56 AM, AZChristian said:

They were the same height - 5'8".  In the pictures where he appears taller, he's usually standing on a step.

And there were many, many standing-on-a-step photos! They both were 5'10" when they married; she continued growing and ended up at 5'10.75". Notice how long her forearms are (forearms and feet are the same length). He usually looked taller in photos of them sitting because her height came from her long legs but his height came from his long torso. 

https://blog.theveteranssite.greatergood.com/lt-princess-diana-prince-charles/

[chaifan]

On 11/29/2020 at 3:42 AM, andromeda331 said:

Poor Diana she really had no one. The bulimia scenes were hard to watch but I'm glad they put them in. Charles couldn't come off less interest in marriage if he wanted too. Refusing to kneel, sending her home after proposing, his answer in the interview, leaving afterwards, not calling Diana once during the six weeks and lying to her about coming back early so he can spend it with the woman he does love. Asking her to give Camilla ring? Yeah, that's a good idea. Camilla was definitely marking her territory during the lunch.

I'm sure it probably didn't happen in real life but I'm glad Margaret said something.

 

The weird thing I noticed about the proposal-now-go-home scene is the crap car they sent for her.  I have to wonder if that was accurate - it looked like just an ordinary car a staffer would own, not something from the royal fleet. 

Margaret's line about forcing the engagement - HBC said in an interview that she added that line herself.  There's no history of Margaret saying anything of the sort, but HBC felt it fit with the character. 

[WatchrTina]

3 hours ago, chaifan said:

the crap car they sent for her.  I have to wonder if that was accurate - it looked like just an ordinary car a staffer would own, not something from the royal fleet. 

I noticed that too and I'll bet it's accurate.  Given the way previous girlfriends had been scared away by the press it made sense to sneak Charles's dates into the palace via nondescript cars while the courtship was going on.  

But that being said -- I'll bet that's not the main reason she's shown in an ordinary car.  I'll bet Diana simply wasn't "entitled" (in accordance with strict royal protocol) to ride in a car from the royal fleet car while merely being a girlfriend of the prince. 

[Roseanna]

5 hours ago, chaifan said:

The weird thing I noticed about the proposal-now-go-home scene is the crap car they sent for her.  I have to wonder if that was accurate - it looked like just an ordinary car a staffer would own, not something from the royal fleet.

Perhaps it was intentional: in order to keep their meeting secret. 

[Razzberry]

On 11/15/2020 at 2:23 PM, Saxo said:

Was the rat crossing the living room at the feet of the Queen Mother at about 1'00" intended?

Thank you!  I thought maybe I was seeing things.  WTF

[MamaBird]

On 11/18/2020 at 11:00 AM, dubbel zout said:

It takes a lot of guts to call off a wedding once the invitations have gone out. I have a lot of admiration for people who know it shouldn't happen and make that tough call. 

So true. I watched that scene and wondered, "Why doesn't she just call a cab and leave that cold, unwelcoming place?" --And then I remembered my own 19-year-old self, in May of 1973, two weeks before the wedding that had been almost a year in the planning.  I dropped my lipstick in his car, reached under the front seat to get it - and found a baggie of marijuana.  After he'd promised me that he wasn't going to do that anymore.  With the invitations out, some gifts already received, my notice given at work, my dad's tux already rented, I truly believed I had no choice but to go ahead with it.  And there weren't even any tea towels with our faces on them.  

The marriage, which thankfully produced no children, lasted less than a year.

[blackwing]

I get that the show is a fictionalized account of events based on fact, but watching this episode truly made me feel for Diana the character.  She started off as some shy teenager who purposely wanted to meet her sister's boyfriend.  Then at the start of this episode, she was celebrating with her friends and dancing and having the time of her life.  Then she is brought into this big empty lonely palace, is more or less forced to meet her fiance's mistress who makes it very clear that she knows way more about the guy than she does, and suffers the humiliation of everyone but her being in on the joke and knowing that her husband-to-be lied about the day he was coming home in order to be able to spend the night with his mistress first.

What I thought was reprehensible was when Diana walked in on the family all standing around in a big circle.  They clearly knew she was arriving.  And she had previously impressed them so very much at Balmoral.  So why did they act like she was a country bumpkin who accidentally stumbled upon them and interrupted their party?  She was the daughter of an earl.  I get that it wasn't a duke or a marquess, but from the first episode, clearly the family was very wealthy and had some status.  The "oh my, this one needs a lot of work" attitude was appalling.  Was there no one in the family who wanted to get to know her or be friends with her?  Why didn't Anne take this role?  I get that she was a mother and was probably having problems in her own marriage, but I don't understand why it wouldn't have been natural to have Anne introduce her to customs.

Instead, they have her grandmother, who apparently was a close friend of the Queen Mother, be her teacher.  Was Diana really so uninformed as to royal protocols?  Wouldn't she have received some sort of knowledge or instruction about this since she was the daughter of an earl?  At least with respect to order of precedence and all that?

Were Diana's friends and sisters not allowed to visit her?  Instead of calling them, couldn't she have invited them over for tea?  They took a 19 year old and shut her in this house all alone and didn't allow her to see anyone?  What did they expect her to do all day?

[Ohiopirate02]

14 minutes ago, blackwing said:

 

Were Diana's friends and sisters not allowed to visit her?  Instead of calling them, couldn't she have invited them over for tea?  They took a 19 year old and shut her in this house all alone and didn't allow her to see anyone?  What did they expect her to do all day?

The show does play fast and loose with this time in Diana's life in order to heighten her isolation.  One of the biggest reasons why she moved into Clarence House (the show has her in Buckingham Palace) before the wedding was for her protection.  Once the tabloids found out where she lived, they camped out and harassed her in the streets.  She could barely get to her car and drive off without being accosted.  Then someone at one of the tabloids figured out which flat was hers and rented out the flat opposite.  Pictures were published of Diana at home in her kitchen.  She moved into Clarence House in order to have some privacy.  We also know she met with her sisters before the wedding.  She was not all alone all day.  She would still have been able to invite her friends for a cuppa.  

[Roseanna]

On 12/3/2020 at 10:21 PM, Ohiopirate02 said:

The show does play fast and loose with this time in Diana's life in order to heighten her isolation.  One of the biggest reasons why she moved into Clarence House (the show has her in Buckingham Palace) before the wedding was for her protection.  Once the tabloids found out where she lived, they camped out and harassed her in the streets.  She could barely get to her car and drive off without being accosted.  Then someone at one of the tabloids figured out which flat was hers and rented out the flat opposite.  Pictures were published of Diana at home in her kitchen.  She moved into Clarence House in order to have some privacy.  We also know she met with her sisters before the wedding.  She was not all alone all day.  She would still have been able to invite her friends for a cuppa.  

Irl she had a lady-in-waiting (not her grandmother) to teach her and also many other ladies knew her before and spent time with her, so she wasn't left alone at all.

[Adiba]

Just catching up with this show so a little late to the party. The luncheon scene with Camilla—if it happened that way irl and I had been Diana, I would have called it off then. It was glaringly apparent that Camilla was number one in Charles’ life.

When Camila was talking about Charles’ eating habits ( no lunch, and a soft-boiled egg on everything) she made him sound like a “ royal” pain in the ass. Then when she was talking about Charles complaining about gas and bloating— ugh— poor Diana should’ve told Prince Dyspepsia the wedding was off.

[Umbelina]

9 minutes ago, Adiba said:

Just catching up with this show so a little late to the party. The luncheon scene with Camilla—if it happened that way irl and I had been Diana, I would have called it off then. It was glaringly apparent that Camilla was number one in Charles’ life.

When Camila was talking about Charles’ eating habits ( no lunch, and a soft-boiled egg on everything) she made him sound like a “ royal” pain in the ass. Then when she was talking about Charles complaining about gas and bloating— ugh— poor Diana should’ve told Prince Dyspepsia the wedding was off.

Apparently, pretty close to the truth, check the history and tabloids threads here for more.

Remember, Diana was only 19, and Camilla 34 I believe.  I think, more than anything, that age difference might explain not having a more robust reaction to Camilla.  I'd bet it was one of those times where, when looking back, people realize what they wish they had said and done.

[Razzberry]

The rat in this episode (other than Charles) reminded me of the ones in the very first episode of season 1, in the kitchen of Buckingham Palace I believe. 

[Camera One]

I felt so badly for Diana stuck in such a messy situation.  The actress did a great job and kept the episode riveting as we watched the monotony.  It was also frustrating because the way everything was laid out, you just want to tell these people to just stop going down the path of disaster.

Having said that, the writing was rather heavy-handed and the strength of the Diana focus is countered by the one-sidedness of the narrative.  Diana impressed everyone at Balmoral but couldn't figure out the order of people to address?  Having her in the middle of that disorienting circle was clearly supposed to represent a deer surrounded by wolves.  The lunch with Camilla was as subtle as a ton of bricks.  

This is a story where everyone is very passive and they never delve into why.  Last episode, Charles exclaimed that he hardly knew Diana, but they jump ahead and we never see why he didn't try to get to know her or spend more time with her.  It is presented like if Charles didn't marry Diana, there won't be another chance.  Charles did seem charmed by Diana in Episode 1, but there was zero signs of that in these last two episodes, making it a very cut-and-dry situation.  The biggest question I had in the episode was why Elizabeth never returned Diana's call, and why Elizabeth was MIA throughout.  Like in Season 3, Elizabeth is just a cursory character with no attempt to explain or show her POV.  Was Diana not allowed to join the other members of the family for breakfast, lunch or dinner?  Margaret actually said the truth, but she never spoke to Charles to at least try to impart her wisdom?  How would he have reacted?  As beautifully produced as this show is, it really does feel like a bunch of empty calories at the end of an episode.  It capitalizes on the fact that these are real people, but I'm not sure they do the real people justice.

[Natalie25]

On 11/30/2020 at 10:25 AM, chaifan said:

The weird thing I noticed about the proposal-now-go-home scene is the crap car they sent for her.  I have to wonder if that was accurate - it looked like just an ordinary car a staffer would own, not something from the royal fleet. 

I think it was her own car. They showed her singing while driving back.

[Spartan Girl]

You guys know how we called Diana being schooled by her grandmother the UnDisneyfied Princess Diaries?

Well yesterday wasn’t just the 40th anniversary of the royal wedding, it was the 20th anniversary of The Princess Diaries.