Ratings and Scheduling: Who's the fairest of them all?

[FurryFury]

I don't think Wonderland would have been that much more popular in another timeslot. The pilot was just bad. Way too cheesy and CGI-reliant, some of the actors overacted. Once was grounded and had a much more serious feel.

[Rumsy4]

That was after Frozen. By this point, it's clear none of the viewers that got into Once with 4A have remained.

 

IIRC, it was either before season 4 started, or in the early part of the season, where the Nielsen numbers were really high (due to an internal error). As 4A went on, it was clear that adding the Frozen characters was not enough to hold the attention of the new viewers. While ONCE is still outperforming in its timeslot, the lower ratings might affect the budget proportioned to the show for Season 5. That's what happened in Fringe (which had much lower ratings, IIRC. Sigh... I miss Fringe).

[FurryFury]

Fringe was another story entirely. It was a bubble show ever since s3 (if not s2). It was even on Fridays since s3, so it's a miracle it even got the final season. Once is still outperforming most shows on air, because the ratings now are generally much lower than a few years ago.

[HoodlumSheep]

I don't think Wonderland would have been that much more popular in another timeslot. The pilot was just bad. Way too cheesy and CGI-reliant, some of the actors overacted.

I will defend Wonderland until the day I die, but I don't think Wonderland would have been much more popular either, I just believe it would have done better in the Sunday timeslot. Like, I think it could have managed to at least stay at a 1.0 or slightly above. We've all got our own opinions, but I thought the pilot was average, not bad, they didn't rely on the cgi as much near the end, and I thought the actors were just fine.

Also, I can remember there being a decent amount of animosity toward the show from Oncers (on tumblr and such) before the spin-of even aired, which is a shame.

OT: I've been wondering, since Wonderland is done and over with, and doesn't really have an active board, would it make sense if I think the Once board should absorb the Wonderland board and just have it as a sub-section or something?

[FurryFury]

The Red Queen was just horrible. I know people love the character and say she gets better, but it the pilot, she was so bad I wanted to claw my eyes out.

 

I did like Will and Alice. Too bad Will's wasted on the mothership and Sophie Lowe is on some show I'm not going to watch because it sounds boring.

[YaddaYadda]

I don't think Wonderland would have been that much more popular in another timeslot. The pilot was just bad. Way too cheesy and CGI-reliant, some of the actors overacted.

 

And I hated Alice and the whole Cyrus things.  I felt like I was being slapped upside the head with Alice and her true love.  It's the first show, calm down!  I loved Will but he wasn't enough to keep me watching.  Dropped out after the 1st episode.

[FurryFury]

Oh yes, Alice and Cyrus were just too much! I hate it when the show takes a couple and tells me "Here they are, your destined OTP! Sure, they have already met and fallen in love in the past so you only get to see a few flashbacks, but don't worry, they are separated and now must find a way to each other again, isn't it fun?" I mean, the only reason I didn't hate Snowing at first sight is that they weren't actually the main characters, Emma was (and she had no OTP), plus Ginny and Josh had great chemistry (unlike Alice and Cyrus).

[TheGreenKnight]

I actually prefer Alice and Cyrus to Snowing, but I agree--it's better to see the romance play out rather than be told they are epic (classic show v. tell).

 

I do think OUATiW would've done much better during the winter gap on Sunday nights. Not great and probably not enough to inspire more spin-offs--although I could've seen them going with OUAT in Arendelle during the winter gap if they had got better ratings with OUATiW during the gap--but I believe OUAT's viewers would've given the spin-off more of a chance if the (better) main show wasn't on to distract them. The show wasn't wonderful, but I enjoyed all of the main characters (Jafar, Ana, Will, Cyrus, Alice). I wonder why it was never put on DVD/Blu-Ray anyway?

[Mathius]

OUATIW was much better than OUAT has been from 3B onward, IMO.

The Red Queen was just horrible. I know people love the character and say she gets better, but it the pilot, she was so bad I wanted to claw my eyes out.

I'm sorry, but no. She wasn't bad at all, you were annoyed with a stiff performance that was INTENDED as a stiff performance. As in, the character of Anastasia is literally putting on an irritating uppercrust facade to hide the sad, scared girl she is underneath. That Emma Rigby pulled off such successful "good bad acting" is to her credit, and she does amazing work as the show goes on and we get to see Anastasia's true self. Her voice/accent even changes.

I wonder why it was never put on DVD/Blu-Ray anyway?

I'm hoping Season 5 has a big OUATIW connection (likely Jafar due to Aladdin's Blu-Ray release) and that it will be released on DVD/Blu-Ray alongside OUAT S4 so that people can buy it and get caught up with what happened.

I don't think Wonderland would have been that much more popular in another timeslot. The pilot was just bad. Way too cheesy and CGI-reliant, some of the actors overacted. Once was grounded and had a much more serious feel.

I agree that the pilot needed to have more of a serious weight to it. As the series went on, it gained that same serious feel OUAT has (especially where Jafar is concerned, things got DARK with him), but that should have been apparent from the beginning. More people would likely have stuck with it then.

Edited April 8, 2015 by Mathius

[KingOfHearts]

Wonderland's first few episodes were atrocious. The second half was much more like Once and had a much deeper writing style. Unfortunately the first impression is likely what sealed its fate as a DOA, at least inside the fandom.

Edited April 8, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Zuleikha]

Is Wonderland viewable anywhere online? My spouse and I have completionist tendencies, and we want to watch it but we couldn't find it on any of our usual places (Netflix, Hulu Plus, Google Play)

[Mari]

Is Wonderland viewable anywhere online?

Amazon has it at about $1.99 an episode.

[daxx]

$19.99 for the season.

http://www.amazon.com/Down-the-Rabbit-Hole/dp/B00FS6COPU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1428460196&sr=8-1&keywords=once+wonderland

[HoodlumSheep]

Ana/the red queen is a precious angel cupcake that deserves to be protected at all costs.

Once again, I didn't think the first few episodes were bad. They may have been a bit dull and slow, but I'd sooner watch them than some of the recent episodes like 4x05, 4a finale, etc.

Wonderland picked up at around 1x04 (Jafar's backstory)/ 1x05 when the red queen's story begins to unfold.

I liked Alice and Cyrus. I never felt like they were forced upon me. I also liked that as a couple they actually talked and worked things out compared to some of the couples in Once.

IMO these are Some of the reasons why the Wonderland spin off didn't do so good.

1. Thursday nights instead of Sunday.

2. Completely new cast (so there's no previous attachments).

3. Slow/dullish first few eps.

4. CGI--> they relied on it less at the end

I remember these complaints when lurking on the internet before/when it premiered:

5. No mad hatter (IMO he wasn't needed at all)

6. Some believed it was stealing from Once's budget

7. Some believed that Once's quality would suffer if A&E had to focus on two shows

7. People took one look at the red queen and wrote her off as a one-dimensional cardboard cutout of Regina (IMO she is a far more superior character).

8. Some were disgruntled that Jafar was used for Wonderland, and therefore there was less of a chance at seeing him on the mother show.

Well, just like some of the other threads, we seem to be veering off topic.

I'd love to continue the Once/Wonderland discussion, but I don't think the ouat ratings thread is the right place to do it, and the Wonderland board has very, very little activity.

Would the Once vs other fairy tales be more appropriate? Or a new thread??

Edited April 8, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[Camera One]

I agree with those four reasons for why "Wonderland" failed.  I really liked the back half of "Wonderland", and I liked Alice and Will enough to stick with the show despite some initial dislike for the hamminess of Ana and Jafar.

 

Most of my "Wonderland"-related posts have been in the Will/Knave thread.  The Other Fairy Tales would fit as well, but it's nice to segregate it from other unrelated shows.

[Serena]

I honestly don't think the quality of the Pilot really mattered, because Wonderland was DOA. People didn't give it a chance, so it's not like lots of people saw the pilot and hated what they saw (like what happened with Shield). 

[FurryFury]

I actually liked the pilot of SHIELD. Not loved, but it was entertaining and made me want to watch more of it. The suck only started to become apparent around episode 3. 

[LizaD]

I think the main big reason why Wonderland tanked was because it was on Thursdays. Put S2 and on Once on there and it wouldn't do significantly better either. S1 wouldn't have been as big a hit either. Once's timeslot is easily the easiest in the business. They only have football to contend with in the fall and it's positioned as the counter programming to football. Spring is wide open for them and they don't even have to deal with the big cable juggernauts in Walking Dead and Game of Thrones.

 

Here, people want to know what those ratings really mean? I've linked to an article revealing the ad rates for each show. Interesting points? Castle whose demos are lower than Once's command a slightly higher price. SHIELD's ratings are slammed but it too commands a higher rate. People keep saying Once is ABC's 4th strongest show but a quick glance tells me that in terms of ad rates it's 7th or 8th. 

 

http://variety.com/2014/tv/news/tv-ad-prices-football-walking-dead-big-bang-theory-blacklist-top-the-list-1201314484/

 

I've seen talk where people claim Once's Frozen arc will keep the season average high or ok for them on par with S3 but ad rates are set in May at the upfronts. It's based on predicting next season which means the spring or the tail end of the season is a better indicator as a predictor. This is not to say Once is in any danger of getting cancelled but just to put things in perspective.

[KingOfHearts]

 

I honestly don't think the quality of the Pilot really mattered, because Wonderland was DOA. People didn't give it a chance, so it's not like lots of people saw the pilot and hated what they saw (like what happened with Shield).

The Pilot mattered more to the avid Once fans than casual audiences, imo. From what I've seen, most Oncers like us turned it off after watching the Pilot because it was so disappointing. Wider viewership probably cared more about the marketing, scheduling and appeal, all of which Wonderland was poor in. I don't think audiences felt a real need for a lower budget, cheesy CGI show about the Lewis Carroll classic that happened to be a spinoff of something completely else.

Edited April 8, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[stealinghome]

The Pilot mattered more to the avid Once fans than casual audiences, imo. From what I've seen, most Oncers like us turned it off after watching the Pilot because it was so disappointing.

Yeah, I tend to agree with this. I watched the pilot because I was curious about the show and willing to give it a chance, but it was so, just, uninteresting that I didn't really tune back in. I do hear that the show improved--and I caught an episode or two toward the end that was much better--but I think a stronger pilot might've kept more of the core OUAT fanbase.

 

I also think that Wonderland had the misfortune of airing after 2B, and that may have hurt it. I know that after the debacle of 2B, I personally had lost of a lot of belief in the OUAT writers and wasn't willing to stick around Wonderland to see if the show got better after the very flat pilot. I wonder if, had Wonderland come a year later, after the show righted the ship somewhat in S3 (despite the fact that 3B wasn't exactly awesome either), I might have given it a longer chance--like tried to hold on for 2-3 more episodes past the pilot. But at the time I very much felt it was a fool me once, shame on me, fool me twice, shame on you situation.

[KingOfHearts]

I wonder if, had Wonderland come a year later, after the show righted the ship somewhat in S3 (despite the fact that 3B wasn't exactly awesome either), I might have given it a longer chance--like tried to hold on for 2-3 more episodes past the pilot. But at the time I very much felt it was a fool me once, shame on me, fool me twice, shame on you situation.

It might have helped to air the show during the winter hiatus after 3A for this reason. 3A gave such a great cliffhanger that Oncers were on their pins and needles that whole break. There was a large amount of interest in the fandom at the time that Wonderland might have helped soothe if it were there in the absence of the parent show. Between 4A and 4B... not so much.

Edited April 8, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[stealinghome]

Agreed--I mean I definitely think that Wonderland would have done better as a bridge series in general, and that 3A/3B was the right hiatus in terms of people being excited about the show again. Alas....

[Souris]

This post has a graph with ep-by-ep ratings for each season up til now.

[Serena]

Interesting news, in light of our conversation about Wonderland and the possibility of ABC doing another OUAT spin-off: they're developing a SHIELD one. I'm surprised, considering SHIELD isn't exactly lighting NIELSEN on fire and that Agent Carter was a semi-flop.

[FurryFury]

Hmm, maybe Mockingbird? Can't see anybody else from the current cast as a lead for a new show.

[Mari]

Agent Carter was a semi-flop.

Which is sad, because while I haven't cared for AOS and gave up on it, I did enjoy most of Agent Carter.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Mari

[stealinghome]

Agreed--Agent Carter, while not perfect, was much better than AoS. THAT is a show that I wish had been a fall premiere instead of a mid-season bridge--I do think the January premiere hurt it.

 

It doesn't entirely surprise me that they're considering an AoS spinoff. Marvel is pretty desperate to make their TV universe both work (to keep up with DC's Arrow/Flash/Supergirl/etc) and play a somewhat important role relative to the films, and the TV shows are basically free advertising for the movies anyway. I doubt ABC itself would have wanted an AoS spinoff, but I can see the directive coming from above ABC.

 

What Marvel really needs to do is get some really, really good showrunners and writers for their TV shows. While AoS' cast isn't the most talented, the problems with it and Agent Carter both are really more creative.

[Mathius]

What Marvel really needs to do is get some really, really good showrunners and writers for their TV shows. While AoS' cast isn't the most talented, the problems with it and Agent Carter both are really more creative.

Kinda like OUAT, huh?

[Serena]

EW also gives OUAT a garanteed renewal. They say Galavant is probably dead. 

[HoodlumSheep]

[url=http://www.ew.com/article/2015/03/31/deathwatch-spring-tv-survival-odds/2]They say Galavant is probably dead.

Nooo! I refuse to believe this.

[stealinghome]

Talk about never giving a show a chance--ABC scheduled Galavant in literally the worst four weeks they possibly could have! That scheduling was TERRIBLE. I caught the last episode, and found it really charming (reminiscent of Once S1, and something I wish Once would revert more toward), but given the low ratings was totally unmotivated to watch the previous episodes because pretty much everyone agrees it's DOA. I guess the only hope is for ABC to look at what it put Galavant up against?

[FurryFury]

What Marvel really needs to do is get some really, really good showrunners and writers for their TV shows.

 

Well, I'm quite satisfied with AC's duo, while AoS spinoff (which I personally suspect could be about EJO-led organization) will have Jeffrey Bell (an experienced writer and showrunner whose Angel s5 I did like, Alias s5 had some promise -  although I'm not sure if he was the one to outline the horrible character derailing finale, but he was also co-showrunning AoS with Jed & Marissa, and it didn't turn out great at all, so who knows) and also some guy from Hawaii 5-0 whose name I haven't heard before.

 

Anyway, if ABC greenlights a spin-off to such a low-rated show as AoS, they really are desperate.

Edited April 11, 2015 by FurryFury

[HoodlumSheep]

Talk about never giving a show a chance--ABC scheduled Galavant in literally the worst four weeks they possibly could have! That scheduling was TERRIBLE. I caught the last episode, and found it really charming (reminiscent of Once S1, and something I wish Once would revert more toward), but given the low ratings was totally unmotivated to watch the previous episodes because pretty much everyone agrees it's DOA. I guess the only hope is for ABC to look at what it put Galavant up against?

They should have waited until football had ended. Instead they put it up against some pretty big games (seeing how it was nearing the end of the season).

[YaddaYadda]

I really enjoyed Galavant.  It didn't take itself seriously and King Richard was all kinds of awesome.  Agent Carter was pretty good and I still really hate AoS and I wish I didn't, but I just do and it bugs right now because I'm assuming they might be setting up some stuff regarding Age of Ultron like they did with the Winter Soldier and it bugs because I don't get to see it since I've pretty much boycotted the show.

 

But regarding AoS, isn't Marvel also shelling a lot of money for that?

[FurryFury]

it bugs right now because I'm assuming they might be setting up some stuff regarding Age of Ultron like they did with the Winter Soldier and it bugs because I don't get to see it since I've pretty much boycotted the show.

 

No, they're setting up Inhumans, actually (which is kinda interesting). And maybe Civil War as well, theme-wise.

Edited April 11, 2015 by FurryFury

[MostlyC]

Once Upon a Time....This was a thread for ratings and scheduling. 

 

It looks as if someone has put a curse on our little thread and now it's meandering all over the place.

 

I was giving you some latitude, but it looks like that may have been a mistake,  Stick to the topic.

 

Further off topic posts will vanish in a puff of smoke.

[RadioGirl27]

Initial ratings for Heart of Gold: 1.6 (a new series low) and 5.02 million viewers.

[YaddaYadda]

Posted at the same time as RG27.  Mah bad!

Edited April 13, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[Souris]

Breakdown from Marc Berman:

 

8:00 p.m.

ABC – Once Upon a Time
Viewers: 5.08 million (#2), A18-49: 1.6/ 5 (#2)

———-

8:30 p.m.

ABC – Once Upon a Time
Viewers: 4.96 million (#3), A18-49: 1.6/ 5 (#1)

 

ABC didn't have a lot to tout, but there was this:

 

Once Upon a Time (8-9pm – 5.0 million and 1.6/5 in AD18-49): Spiking 60% over its lead-in at 8pm, ABC’s Once Upon a Time ranked #1 in its hour for its 6th consecutive original telecast in Adults 18-49 (1.6/5). The ABC drama was on par with its most recent Adult 18-49 rating (1.6/5 vs. 1.7/6).

[YaddaYadda]

That's a bit of a kick in the teeth.  I have to say though that I'm really surprised at how very little promotion there is for Once and I don't know why that is.  Making abstraction of a sort of iffy show last night, I have seen the promo twice in two weeks, I think.  I wonder if the ratings will bounce back next week.

[Delphi]

We Listen to the radio at my job and When once first Came back from hiatus I was hearing promos at least twice an hour but I haven't heard a single commercial for it in weeks. Does abc think that they fandom is so set in stone that they don't have to announce things anymore?

Edited April 13, 2015 by Delphi

[sharky]

Does anyone know how that drop off to the second hour looks compared to past weeks? Because to me, it looks pretty bad, as if people were not interested in sticking around for the second half. I hope this is the nail in Scott Nimerfro's stint with the show -- he has been such a disappointment this season.

 

So now here's a new question: Ratings are fine overall and the show is still a success. Season 5 is a guarantee. But the powers at ABC know what kind of numbers this show could pull and has pulled in the past. They know it's a great vehicle for hyping Disney properties when done right. And they haven't been afraid to replace show runners when ratings plummet, which they did a few seasons ago for Revenge. So do you think the ABC people love this show but could consider the possibility of putting new show runners at the helm?

[KingOfHearts]

Hyping Zelena in the promo was a bad move, in my opinion. From what I've seen, she's only popular with a small faction of fans. I don't think anyone really cared for 3B. Perhaps it would have been better to hint at a major twist or an unknown character coming back. Robin Hood isn't that liked either, which means this episode was a recipe for disaster from the start.

Edited April 13, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Rumsy4]

I sort of expected low ratings for the episode. With the one-week break, a Robin Hood-centric was not the sort to pull viewers back. 

[stealinghome]

We Listen to the radio at my job and When once first Came back from hiatus I was hearing promos at least twice an hour but I haven't heard a single commercial for it in weeks. Does abc think that they fandom is so set in stone that they don't have to announce things anymore?

They may also feel OUAT is a sinking ship that it's not worth putting resources into anymore. I mean, at this point, it's so serialized that very few people are going to pick it up cold, and the sinking ratings indicate that it's...I don't want to say on its last legs, but perhaps not too far off.

 

So do you think the ABC people love this show but could consider the possibility of putting new show runners at the helm?

Sadly, no. If they were going to make that move, they would have done it after 2B or (at the latest) 3B. At this point, they're just going to let it limp to its ending.

[Serena]

Yeah, I agree. They're never replacing A&E. Now, when Once is done, maybe commissioning another fairy-tale style show from different writers? Sure. I think they've seen putting a kid-friendly show at 8pm on Sunday works.

[OnceUponAJen]

I'd be all in favor of a Captain Swan spin-off set on the Jolly Roger!

[orza]

So now here's a new question: Ratings are fine overall and the show is still a success. Season 5 is a guarantee. But the powers at ABC know what kind of numbers this show could pull and has pulled in the past. They know it's a great vehicle for hyping Disney properties when done right. And they haven't been afraid to replace show runners when ratings plummet, which they did a few seasons ago for Revenge. So do you think the ABC people love this show but could consider the possibility of putting new show runners at the helm?

Network executives also have access to the extensive viewing data that Nielsen charges for and that tells a different story. They don't base their decisions on just the limited free data that is available to the general public. This show is also a managed Disney brand so they no doubt have access to the consumer survey data that Disney collects from theme park visitors and cruise/resort vacationers. In the case of this show it is a lot more complex than looking at the overnights and saying thumbs up up or down.

Edited April 13, 2015 by orza

[YaddaYadda]

Live +7 Ratings

 

‘Enter the Dragon’ received a 1.8 and has been adjusted up to a 2.9 - a solid 61% increase and 1.1 points up.
‘Poor Unfortunate Soul’ received a 1.9 and has been adjusted up to a 2.9 - a solid 53% increase and a solid 1 point up.
‘Best Laid Plans’ received a 1.7 and has been adjusted up to a 2.8 - a solid 65% increase and a solid 1.1 point up.

[Mathius]

I've been looking over ratings for the whole show lately, and I am still astounded how badly they've flubbed Season 4 following Season 3. Season 3 was THE steadiest season the show's ever had, keeping the majority of its audience from start to finish and only losing a few thousand from 3A to 3B (contrast to the infamous 2B drop, or even the big 1-million viewer loss Season 1 had thanks to "Dreamy"...I'm not kidding, that episode really screwed things up badly.)

Season 4 gained a ton of new viewers due to Frozen, and 4A's total average is higher than all of Season 3's total as a result, but from "Smash the Mirror" onward the audience went right back to its Season 3 numbers, and now 4B is rapidly losing THOSE viewers. Already around 1 million have dropped out. I wonder what the Season 4 total average will end up being at this rate, and whether or not Season 5 can hold onto the viewers it has left like Season 3 was able to do with Season 2's remaining audience.