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Jeffrey Epstein: Filthy Rich

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Anyone watching this? I am right now........

OMG....this is very powerful and well done. I learned a lot and it really has caused me to change some of my long held opinions. I hope others are viewing and will comment. I watched all the episodes in one day.

Edited by SunnyBeBe
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Not a whole lot of new ground in this series but I thought it was great when the attorneys at the deposition shamed Epstein when they asked him if his penis was "egg shaped" as described by his victims. (Also: 🤮🤮🤮)

Related: Alan Dershowitz's disgusting yellow bottom teeth. I wonder if this dude knows that Crest White Strips also cover the lowers?

While I thought it was great this documentary gave the victims an opportunity to be heard, I wanted to know more about Epstein's unindicted co-conspirators. How the hell is Ghislaine Maxwell walking around a free woman? What about those other two large adult women who procured the children he could abuse? How is Prince Andrew not in jail?

And I was really hoping they'd get to the source of his finances because that asshole wasn't sitting around investing people's money as an income source. I'll never not believe his wealth wasn't derived from blackmailing all those powerful people who similarly abused those children. 

 

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1 hour ago, Giant Misfit said:

Not a whole lot of new ground in this series but I thought it was great when the attorneys at the deposition shamed Epstein when they asked him if his penis was "egg shaped" as described by his victims. (Also: 🤮🤮🤮)

Related: Alan Dershowitz's disgusting yellow bottom teeth. I wonder if this dude knows that Crest White Strips also cover the lowers?

While I thought it was great this documentary gave the victims an opportunity to be heard, I wanted to know more about Epstein's unindicted co-conspirators. How the hell is Ghislaine Maxwell walking around a free woman? What about those other two large adult women who procured the children he could abuse? How is Prince Andrew not in jail?

And I was really hoping they'd get to the source of his finances because that asshole wasn't sitting around investing people's money as an income source. I'll never not believe his wealth wasn't derived from blackmailing all those powerful people who similarly abused those children. 

 

Well, you must have known a lot more about him than I did. I had read some things, but, this was really my first look at the case in depth.  So:

Yes, I was glad they embarrassed him with the egg shaped penis thing.  The description of it being thin in places really ticked him off.  That was rich. (Pardon the pun.)  lol 

I agree about the source of funds.  He got his money from where?  It had to be from some mystery source. What was he doing? What did his taxes say he was doing? One guy said he was successful at investing other people's money.....how so?  No real indication of that.  

What was the relationship with he and Maxwell? It seemed really odd.  I also watched another piece last night on ID Discovery on she and Epstein.  The facts presented on that show were slightly different than Filthy Rich, but, substantially the same. Theirs was not as detailed. And, not as many of the survivors spoke.  I'll post a link if anyone is interested. THAT piece gave more background on Maxwell and said she and Epstein were lovers. 

Apparently, the photo of Clinton on Epstein's plane was taken before Epstein was convicted of charges in FL.  Still, people knew of his proclivity, no?    AND, other people photographed with him were Prince Andrew and Woody Allen?  

Do you believe the denial by Dershowitz's about not having sex with girl supplied by Epstein? 

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33 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Do you believe the denial by Dershowitz's about not having sex with girl supplied by Epstein? 

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Dershowitz is traaaaash. There's no way he was not partaking in any of that. I 100% believe the victim here. She zero reason to lie. What's more is that Dershowitz was trying to downplay his actual friendship with Epstein when there he was -- photographed with him dozens of times in non-professional settings. While there was no evidence presented to suggest it, I'll never not believe Dershowitz didn't intervene in the FBI's case against Epstein which resulted in him getting, more or less, a gentle tap on the wrist with a feather for his crimes. 

Here's more about Nadia Marcinko, the un-indicted co-conspirator

There's also no way that this sex trafficking still isn't happening. Those rich, sick bastards aren't sitting idly by while their supply chain of children has been cut off. 

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Yeah, I agree. Also, WHY did Acosta make the secret SWEET deal in FL years ago?  It was like they were in love with Epstein.  They let his lawyers say what he would do.  The part about not having the evidence was laughable. He had to know that. THEN, he got rewarded down the road with appointment. Hmm.....

I do have a comment about the survivor who brought her little sister into it. She didn't do it on purpose, but, did seem to know that it was a risky situation.  I won't judge her for that though, but, why was she doing paintings of her younger sisters nude and selling them as art?  One had an intruding looking man in it, peering at the young girl.   (I saw this painting on the ID Discover show last night.)  

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4 hours ago, Giant Misfit said:

Not a whole lot of new ground in this series but I thought it was great when the attorneys at the deposition shamed Epstein when they asked him if his penis was "egg shaped" as described by his victims. (Also: 🤮🤮🤮)

2 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Yes, I was glad they embarrassed him with the egg shaped penis thing.  The description of it being thin in places really ticked him off.  That was rich. (Pardon the pun.)  lol 

I've not watched the series yet, but I remember coming across that tidbit online about a year ago--or around the time he died--and it was so bizarre-sounding that I had to double-check to make sure I wasn't reading an Onion article. That deposition is hilarious!

 

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Yeah, I wonder what it really is....small at the ends and fat in the middle?  I can't even imagine how that would work. 

Did you see that video of him and a certain person watching young women dance and he looks like the other man is embarrassing him? If you didn't catch it, please PM me and I'll tell you.  I'm not sure we are allowed to post it, even though, I don't see it as political.  I'd rather be on the safe side. 

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I felt like there were a lot of unanswered questions - the co-conspirators, Maxwell, the blackmail tapes - if his home was raided and he wasn't expecting it, where were those?  There must have been some kind of records (I'm not talking about the raid decades ago when he cleared out the computers).

Also, why the hell was he allowed to move his money to a trust while he was in jail?  Aren't assets supposed to be frozen?  All I know about this stuff I learned on Law & Order.

The victim interviews were very powerful and I am glad they focused on them.  The pix of young, smiling women and girls being shown was heartbreaking. 

8 hours ago, Giant Misfit said:

There's also no way that this sex trafficking still isn't happening. Those rich, sick bastards aren't sitting idly by while their supply chain of children has been cut off. 

ITA.  The cynical part of me says the women will never have justice and the public won't know all of the names.

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I have a 14 year old daughter and it's scary to think of her being targeted like this.  I am just speechless to think of the evilness (money, etc) that compelled people to lure these girls to his houses and keep it quiet.  It's horrifying.  And then for it to happen to at least two sets of sisters?  

I don't believe Dershowitz or Clinton in their denials. Clinton was on his island or plane 27 times?  Yep, sorry Bill, you're digusting.  Have any women accused Clinton of anything thru Epstein?

Maxwell is apparently suing Epstein's estate for money. She belongs in jail with the rest of them, his assistants, Prince Andrew, etc. Why did the FBI not follow through with the first case of the two sisters?  Bought off?

I was impressed with the victims and their stories. You always think you'd walk out, but I guess in some of their situations they didn't know what to do especially at their age.  

I'm still shaken by watching this as I had no idea as to the extent of it all and how long it went on.  I knew about Harvey Weinstein, but not Epstein.  Did anyone see Epstein's face during the depositions.  Man he got SCARY when he didn't like the question being asked.  

I still think he was murdered, he had too many secrets that could absolutely not be exposed.

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10 hours ago, raven said:

the blackmail tapes - if his home was raided and he wasn't expecting it, where were those?

His home in Florida was raided.   His private island was not.    The private island went to the brother in Epstein's Will.   You can connect the dots as to who has the tapes now.  

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I'm beginning to think he was murdered too. And, I don't even think you have to be a conspiracy theorist to get that impression.   And, it's not just the second autopsy that says it was not suicide.  It's too convenient. I do admit that jail cell was very horrific looking, even for an average person, but, for someone who was used to his style, it would have been extremely uncomfortable.  

 I can't say that I am glad he's dead. Makes no difference to me, but, it does in getting money to the survivors AND to get to the evidence and other criminals who were involved. Was it the FBI or NYC police who searched his NY home?  Did they get the evidence he held on other people?  

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11 hours ago, merylinkid said:

His home in Florida was raided.   His private island was not.    The private island went to the brother in Epstein's Will.   You can connect the dots as to who has the tapes now.  

I was talking about the search of his place in NY where they found child pornography.  I though that was where the videos were made but maybe I am not remembering correctly.

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11 hours ago, raven said:

I was talking about the search of his place in NY where they found child pornography.  I though that was where the videos were made but maybe I am not remembering correctly.

They might have been made there but no waaaaay in hell Epstein kept the tapes/discs/flash drives somewhere that easily accessible and obvious.   A blackmailer never keeps the evidence where the blackmailee can easily find it.    That private island was never searched.

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Yes, more than one person talked about the key hole cameras in the NYC apt.  So, where are all the secret tapes?   I wonder if he divulged the whereabouts after his arrest.  Was anyone questioning him about those tapes the night he was killed?  With guards asleep and cameras off, who's to say what went on in the cell.  Just saying.......sure is weird. Maybe, Maxwell has them.  Maybe, that's why she's not being prosecuted........very odd. 

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So glad to see a topic for this program. I am on episode 2 and will finish the series tomorrow. I'll read the comments after I finish watching and then comment. 

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Just one episode left.

The tapes/blackmail material are definitely on the Island.    When they searched his  Florida home in 2006 they found nothing then either.  Not a darn thing on the computer.    He knows better than to keep incriminating evidence where it can easily be found.   How does he know this?

The source of his "fortune."   He ran a damn ponzi scheme in the 80s.   Charming white boy that no one wanted to "ruin his future."    He lied about his education to get one job.   And of course, CWB, so no one checked too closely because such a nice man wouldn't lie would he?   Then he shows some ability to scope out things, so he gets sent to Wall Street.   Where his native ability to lie and scheme helped him make some really good trades (and probably skim more than a bit off the top).   Boss finally finds out the truth -- only because Epstein can't stay away from young girls.   But just cuts him loose instead of destroying his reputation.    So he hooks up with another guy who runs the ponzi scheme and Epstein's native abilities really go wild here.    He was most likely stashing money right and left.    When that house of cards falls down, he moves on to another mark.   The Victoria's Secret guy who he flat out steals from.    Guy knows it too but again doesn't want to make a fuss.   Probably afraid he will look stupid.   Boom invested trustworthily in the 90s, you got a TON of money.   Then other people trust him to invest their money -- and I'll be another ponzi scheme is born.    He was always using OPM -- other people's money.   

Then he kept using the CWB persona to keep getting away with it.   He gave money to the police department to get some needed equipment.   Would a criminal get cosy with the PD?   Of course not, so there's no way nice Mr. Epstein did anything wrong.  He gives money to charity.   

THEN he started really hanging in stratified circles.   Presidents, "Billionaires."    He was perfectly protected.   because the rich and powerful do not want to look stupid.    They don't want it revealed that they fell for his CWB persona instead of seeing him for the snake he is.   It might reflect poorly on THEIR judgment (it does).   So they covered for him.   Including pressing for that "deal" that was a joke and half.   Bullshit they couldn't prove it or the girls wouldn't be believable.    The rich white folks just didn't want to look stupid.   

A deal that covers someone other than the defendant is unheard for.   Usually its a deal for yourself in order to testify against the others.    Blanket immunity for everyone involved in a conspiracy is never done.    Again rich white folks don't want to hear the messy details.   So just sweep it allllllll under the rug so we can go about our lives.   

And that's how Jeffery Epstein got away with it.   Until he didn't.    In his deposition you could sooooooo tell he did not like being questioned about anything.   he did not like it being implied he did anything wrong.   The cool part about the deposition -- it was a civil case.   In a civil case invoking your 5th amendment means a judge can draw an adverse inference from your refusal.    5th Amendent cannot be used against you only in criminal trials.   But civil, a judge can use it in part of his rulling and to determine credibiity.    Because, of course, an innocent person would deny such things vehemently.    

Those girls though.     They are still all messed up.    The people in their lives who failed to protect them in order to keep their own access to Epstein's money is amazing.   The first one, the artist, whose patron was all "you must keep these people happy even if it means losing money for yourself."    Then the ones who did come forward in the early 2000s and were called prostitutes or worse threatened themselves because to protect themselves they found other girls.   They were MINORS, they did what they had to do to survive.   But again, rich white guy is not the problem, his poorer victims are.   

Ghislaine Maxwell.    I only found out last night who her dad was.   I remember when he died.    No wonder she is so good at this.   She learned from the best.   Now she needs to do something her father never did -- go to jail for her crimes.

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None of us will ever know whether or not he was killed or killed himself. There are plenty of reasons for both. The will change suggests he planned to off himself because he knew the jig was up and as one of the attorneys said, it was a final "fuck you" to the victims. 

This was very powerful and I felt for the young women. That Azar guy's wife and kids looked like Stepfords. Why would someone like him make such a deal and host meetings in hotels and give blanket immunity? Why? And after it was discovered, why was he not in trouble? Where was the outrage?

The smirk faced Epstein at his depositions spoke volumes. Asking if he had sex with one of his victims is a question but his lawyers just kept saying "argumentative, harassing..." I was hoping the attorneys would ask him more needling and embarrassing questions just to piss him off. You have to take the little victories as it was clear he was going to get nothing from the depositions.

Epstein's actions were very well orchestrated and once again shows that money buys everything. What is truly upsetting is that so many women have dealt with powerful men like this and yet there are no marches in the streets demanding that these men be held accountable. This might sound weird but it makes me raise and eyebrow that men like Epstein, Weinstein, and Cosby were able to spend their "prime years" abusing all these women and it's only when they are old, wrinkly, likely flaccid-without-pills that they are caught and tried. There is no doubt that this stuff continues, shielded by money and power.

Virginia Roberts, who got married and changed her name in the show, said early on that there were a lot of famous people involved and I believe she said that she was "sent" to them at times. In episode 3 said that she and her husband decided it was time to bring them "all" down. I wondered why no other names were brought up. I'm assuming that there are legal issues involved but is it really illegal to say "I saw X person at a party mingling with young girls"? or even "I saw X person at the house many times," or "at many parties"? She said it about Dershowitz without pictures and such so why not "bring them all down"? It seems that these women know a lot more than they are saying. And what of Bill Clinton saying he never went to the island but the airline records say otherwise? At this point is anything being pursued by anyone? If Prince Andrew went on that talk program to prove his innocence, boy did he make a mistake. Eyes downward, blinking a lot... please. 

 

 

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I just watched this. I was familiar with the story because I keep up with celebrity gossip. I knew about Clinton and Andrew but not about Dershowitz. The brother could've been innocent. But what did he know? Is he hiding evidence? I just think there was a lot of bribery and blackmailing going on. 

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Dershowitz is traaaaash. There's no way he was not partaking in any of that. I 100% believe the victim here. She zero reason to lie. What's more is that Dershowitz was trying to downplay his actual friendship with Epstein when there he was -- photographed with him dozens of times in non-professional settings. While there was no evidence presented to suggest it, I'll never not believe Dershowitz didn't intervene in the FBI's case against Epstein which resulted in him getting, more or less, a gentle tap on the wrist with a feather for his crimes. 

I have never liked him and after watching this series, my opinion of him has not changed. He is an opportunistic egomaniac who thinks he is smarter than everyone else in the world.

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Finished it.   One of the survivors put it best about confronting Epstein "Do you remember me?   Of course you don't because there were hundreds of girls.   But I remember you.   I will always remember you."

Epstein, Dershowitz and Prince Andrew can all state that they do not remember these girls.   They can even say they didn't have sex with THAT particular girl.   Because they don't remember -- they all blend in.    There were so many.    But those girls who say Epstein trafficked them to Dershowitz and Andrew -- they remember.   They know.   Because it wasn't just another night for them.   

Andrew will never be held accountable.    The Royal Family will see to that.   Not for his sake, but for the sake of the Royal Family's reputation.   Dershowitz on the other hand.    How's that defamation suit going there buster?    Because she came on camera and said flat out you had sex with her when she was a minor.   Just like you challenged her to.   

As for Ghislaine Maxwell, I hope she winds up homeless, friendless and then when she dies may she rot in Hell.   

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I just got James Patterson's book about the case from the library on my Kindle. For those interested, Bradley Edwards, one of the attorneys for some of the girls has written a book called Relentless Pursuit.

Also, the smoking gun has the original police report (22 pages) from 2006 in which many girls were interviewed. The names are redacted of course but you can totally see the pattern and his MO. Two amusing notes while reading the document were that the first girl interviewed said his "wee wee was very small" and then later on in indicates that Epstein gave "Christmas bonuses" to these girls. 

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/crime/jeffrey-epstein-brief-history-of-slime-786903 On the left, you can click View the Document. You'll need a shower afterwards.

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On 6/4/2020 at 4:28 AM, merylinkid said:

He was perfectly protected.   because the rich and powerful do not want to look stupid.    They don't want it revealed that they fell for his CWB persona instead of seeing him for the snake he is.   It might reflect poorly on THEIR judgment (it does).   So they covered for him.   Including pressing for that "deal" that was a joke and half.   Bullshit they couldn't prove it or the girls wouldn't be believable.    The rich white folks just didn't want to look stupid. 

I think it's much more than that - I'm fairly certain many (if not most) of those rich white people partook of the same activities that Epstein did, which gave him an abundance of blackmail material. So in addition to his financial ponzi schemes, this was no doubt the source of his mysterious "income". He had dirt on everyone, so a lot of wealthy powerful people had to keep him happy.

I'd be curious to know if Acosta had a sudden influx in his bank account after Epstein's first go-round in country-club jail.

Dershowitz is scum. 

I still don't understand why Ghislaine Maxwell is out there free as a bird. From what I understand, she was completely obsessed with Epstein, and therefore acted as his handmaiden. I guess she must have had a very charming and engaging facade, to lure so many people in. I thought it was weird that someone who had that much money and privilege always looked like a middle-aged office administrator - even when she was young. The only thing worse than one sociopath is two of them working in tandem.

The testimony of the victims was extremely powerful, and I'm very sad they will never see real justice.

 

 

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5 hours ago, Cheezwiz said:

I think it's much more than that - I'm fairly certain many (if not most) of those rich white people partook of the same activities that Epstein did, which gave him an abundance of blackmail material. So in addition to his financial ponzi schemes, this was no doubt the source of his mysterious "income". He had dirt on everyone, so a lot of wealthy powerful people had to keep him happy.

I'd be curious to know if Acosta had a sudden influx in his bank account after Epstein's first go-round in country-club jail.

I agree with you. It is a bit hard to believe that all of his rich guests at the island or in his apartment were there to play poker. None of the girls mentioned signing NDAs or anything so why more are not namedropping is a mystery. Another interesting thing is that James Patterson, who was perfectly willing to write a book that describes what a disgusting pig Epstein was, is a buddy of Bill Clinton and currently writing a book with him. 

I think a lot of these very famous attorneys that represent victims are part of the cover ups of these types of things as well. After all, someone getting arrested, tried and convicted is nice and all but doesn't put the big bucks into the attorney's pocket. There have been a few occasions in which some high powered attorney will go on television claiming to have a client with devastating info about some famous person, they milk it for a few days, promise a press conference to spill the tea, and then bam, it gets canceled, presumably because a large check was handed to both victim and lawyer.

Here is a very lengthy piece that the Times did about a guy who came to them with supposed blockbuster info about Epstein. He later disappeared and it's unclear if he was a plant or what.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/30/business/david-boies-pottinger-jeffrey-epstein-videos.html

Boies is an attorney for some of the girls. 

This is an NPR piece about the above Times investigation. 

https://www.npr.org/2020/03/12/804949055/the-new-york-times-the-unreliable-source-and-the-expos-that-missed-the-mark

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 I watched this. I didn't know much about this case or Epstein so it was very informative. The stories of all the survivors were heartbreaking to hear.

I can't believe that one news story referring to Virginia Roberts as a former prostitute. It seems like these women weren't really looked at as victims until after Me Too.

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12 hours ago, Cheezwiz said:

I think it's much more than that - I'm fairly certain many (if not most) of those rich white people partook of the same activities that Epstein did, which gave him an abundance of blackmail material. So in addition to his financial ponzi schemes, this was no doubt the source of his mysterious "income". He had dirt on everyone, so a lot of wealthy powerful people had to keep him happy.

I'd be curious to know if Acosta had a sudden influx in his bank account after Epstein's first go-round in country-club jail.

Dershowitz is scum. 

I still don't understand why Ghislaine Maxwell is out there free as a bird. From what I understand, she was completely obsessed with Epstein, and therefore acted as his handmaiden. I guess she must have had a very charming and engaging facade, to lure so many people in. I thought it was weird that someone who had that much money and privilege always looked like a middle-aged office administrator - even when she was young. The only thing worse than one sociopath is two of them working in tandem.

The testimony of the victims was extremely powerful, and I'm very sad they will never see real justice.

 

 

Maxwell is a mystery.  She is described as charming, engaging, personable, persuasive, upscale,  etc.  NONETHELESS, I really wonder about all that.  I have repeatedly read those terms to describe individuals, who when they are eventually unmasked ARE NOT like that at all.  They often seem very obviously deceitful and suspicious.  I don't think it takes a genius to see through some people.  But, apparently, there are a lot of people who are gullible and with poor judgment. I'm not referring to the CHILDREN.  (They don't have a duty to have discerned  any of the adults. but, even they seemed to have Maxwell's number.) They are innocent.  It's the other adults who Maxwell and Epstein manipulated or conspired with that makes me furious. 

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I was shocked by Ghislaine Maxwell’s role in all of this. She was as bad as he was. What a creep.

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1 hour ago, Gigi G3 said:

I was shocked by Ghislaine Maxwell’s role in all of this. She was as bad as he was. What a creep.

She's clearly still being protected by very powerful people. Where is she? Why hasn't she been indicted? Why aren't there warrants out for her arrest? 

I was very moved by the portraits Maria Farmer did of her fellow survivors that were shown in the final episode. They were a testament to their courage & strength, and she is a very talented artist.

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I'm only in the first part, but this seems to be skipping a lot of details that have been in other things I've seen or heard (there are at least three seperate podcast series on Epstein--the best was https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/broken-jeffrey-epstein/id1478460758 and is mega detailed.  Even the survivors we see here had MUCH more detailed stories, with many more acts from Epstein towards them than the little stubs we saw here.  He predated people over and over, not just once.

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17 hours ago, Kromm said:

I'm only in the first part, but this seems to be skipping a lot of details that have been in other things I've seen or heard (there are at least three seperate podcast series on Epstein--the best was https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/broken-jeffrey-epstein/id1478460758 and is mega detailed.  Even the survivors we see here had MUCH more detailed stories, with many more acts from Epstein towards them than the little stubs we saw here.  He predated people over and over, not just once.

What do you mean by the boldface above?

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On 6/4/2020 at 12:27 PM, configdotsys said:

This might sound weird but it makes me raise and eyebrow that men like Epstein, Weinstein, and Cosby were able to spend their "prime years" abusing all these women and it's only when they are old, wrinkly, likely flaccid-without-pills that they are caught and tried. There is no doubt that this stuff continues, shielded by money and power.

Yup. Slow clap for you saying exactly what I was thinking. 

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On 6/15/2020 at 11:17 AM, SunnyBeBe said:

What do you mean by the boldface above?

I think they meant he was a predator and repeatedly victimized these young women.

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On 6/4/2020 at 7:28 AM, merylinkid said:

The source of his "fortune."   He ran a damn ponzi scheme in the 80s.   Charming white boy that no one wanted to "ruin his future."    He lied about his education to get one job.   And of course, CWB, so no one checked too closely because such a nice man wouldn't lie would he?   Then he shows some ability to scope out things, so he gets sent to Wall Street.   Where his native ability to lie and scheme helped him make some really good trades (and probably skim more than a bit off the top).   Boss finally finds out the truth -- only because Epstein can't stay away from young girls.   But just cuts him loose instead of destroying his reputation.    So he hooks up with another guy who runs the ponzi scheme and Epstein's native abilities really go wild here.    He was most likely stashing money right and left.    When that house of cards falls down, he moves on to another mark.   The Victoria's Secret guy who he flat out steals from.    Guy knows it too but again doesn't want to make a fuss.   Probably afraid he will look stupid.   Boom invested trustworthily in the 90s, you got a TON of money.   Then other people trust him to invest their money -- and I'll be another ponzi scheme is born.    He was always using OPM -- other people's money.   

And that's how he go away with it.  He knew how to be a "charming white boy" and nobody ever suspects Charming White Boys of anything.  

Nobody wants to admit that Epstein suckered them, so they kept quiet.

As for the girls, those poor girls.  Epstein knew what he was doing.  I watched a film called "Very Young Girls" about 13 and 14 year old black girls who are trafficked right here in the USA.  These folks have young girls out here looking for victims.  They look for neglected, abused girls.  Girls they feel no one will miss if they disappear.  

And that's how they do it.

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There are many similarities with Epstein, R. Kelly, Michael Jackson and Dr. Nasser. 

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@Neurochick  I put a sad face reaction on yours.   Not because your post was bad but because it was so very sadly true.    I worked on anti-human trafficking legislation in law school.     The human traffickers prey on the vulnerable.   Vulnerable for whatever reason, financially, emotionally, whatever.    Like the Artist that Epstein and Maxwell abused.   She was vulnerable in that she was a student artist trying to get her work recognized.   They took advantage not only by disgustingly low balling the price of her work, but then in luring her in to abuse her.    

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1 hour ago, peachmangosteen said:

Ghislaine Maxwell has been arrested!

I just came here to post that too! They nabbed her in New Hampshire. I figured she was out of the country.

By the way, in addition to the two books I posted above, there is another book called A Convenient Death about, surprise, Epstein's death.

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3 hours ago, configdotsys said:

They nabbed her in New Hampshire

My big question is what is a "socialite" doing in New Hampshire?   It sounds like she wasn't too hard to find so they could have arrested her before this.   I have no other questions because that "lady" is up to her botoxed face in this mess.   She procured the girls for Epstein,  period full stop.

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3 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I'm not much of a conspiracy theorist, but, if she ends up dead, I'm not going to buy suicide.  They better keep a close watch on her. 

I'm not big on conspiracies either, but she will be dead soon - either by ahem, "suicide", or perhaps a Corona virus cover story. She's got too much info on too many high-powered people. Glad she was at least arrested - wonder where the hell she's been hiding.

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It's a mystery.  I don't know much about New Hampshire. Maybe, there'll be a news story feature soon by 20/20.  

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I thought this was pretty well done; it didn't really contain anything I didn't already know, but it laid things out very clearly and really got at who he was and how he was enabled for so long, and how vulnerable these girls were.

Virginia Roberts escaping by marrying a guy she'd just met was a "yikes" moment.  You do what you have to do.

The survivor who connected her little sister with him (not the artist, the one shown later in the series) because she had no idea he was doing this to anyone other than her and didn't think it would happen to her sister - they kept showing pictures of the sister, but we didn't hear from her.  I was afraid we were going to find out she'd died.  But her absence seems to instead be because she's still angry with her sister (who says she doesn't blame her; she'd be angry, too).  I would be, too!  It's one thing to understand she was a victim, she certainly didn't intentionally set her up to be abused, etc. but forgiveness is another matter.

That's the dynamic at play with this entire pyramid thing - victims recruited others, knowingly making them victims, and those girls did the same thing in turn.  But they were girls.  And victims.  And desperate.  It all started with, and thus lands on, Epstein, Maxwell, and the other two adults who started and ran the ring.

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11 minutes ago, Bastet said:

That's the dynamic at play with this entire pyramid thing - victims recruited others, knowingly making them victims, and those girls did the same thing in turn.  But they were girls.  And victims.  And desperate.  It all started with, and thus lands on, Epstein, Maxwell, and the other two adults who started and ran the ring.

Yes, exactly - quite a clever way to keep people from making too much of a fuss. If everyone feels guilty and complicit, they're less likely speak up and cause problems. Sadly there are a lot of people who still consider these girls as prostitutes who voluntarily offered up their services for pay, rather than vulnerable underage people who were lured in with the hope of a better life.

15 minutes ago, Bastet said:

Virginia Roberts escaping by marrying a guy she'd just met was a "yikes" moment.  You do what you have to do.

Yeah, that was a whoa! holy cow! moment for me as well - there are SO many ways that could have gone horribly wrong, but apparently her instincts were right and it was a gamble that paid off, because it seems she's still married to the guy, and he's been supportive of her.

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17 hours ago, Bastet said:

That's the dynamic at play with this entire pyramid thing - victims recruited others, knowingly making them victims, and those girls did the same thing in turn.  But they were girls.  And victims.  And desperate.  It all started with, and thus lands on, Epstein, Maxwell, and the other two adults who started and ran the ring.

One the attorneys had a whole chart that showed all the connections, every girl brought in by another girl and flowing back up to Epstein, Maxwell and that other woman.   Every. Single. One.     They only showed a portion of the chart and it was scary how many had been recruited.

17 hours ago, Cheezwiz said:

Yes, exactly - quite a clever way to keep people from making too much of a fuss. If everyone feels guilty and complicit, they're less likely speak up and cause problems. Sadly there are a lot of people who still consider these girls as prostitutes who voluntarily offered up their services for pay, rather than vulnerable underage people who were lured in with the hope of a better life.

Not only feeling complicit, I think one of the girls was threatened with being charged with sex trafficking herself for having recruited other girls.   Epstein knew what he was doing.    He got an endless supply of girls and co-conspirators he hoped would keep quiet in order to protect themselves.   

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On 7/4/2020 at 3:09 PM, Cheezwiz said:

Yes, exactly - quite a clever way to keep people from making too much of a fuss. If everyone feels guilty and complicit, they're less likely speak up and cause problems. Sadly there are a lot of people who still consider these girls as prostitutes who voluntarily offered up their services for pay, rather than vulnerable underage people who were lured in with the hope of a better life.

That they were labeled prostitutes really pissed me off. These were girls with very dysfunctional families who thought $200 was a ton of money. They were used and manipulated by these people because they knew that these girls would be written off as low class scammers who were not to be believed. It's just awful. I still am not understanding why Virginia-- who specifically said that she was rented out to powerful people-- is not naming names. If they want the walls to come down on these people and all that's been going on for years and years, someone has to throw a match at the pile. It won't be Ghislane Maxwell, that's for sure. My money is on her taking the fall, or getting a deal in which she gives up lots of dirt but it gets sealed for some reason. No doubt Barr will have a hand in whatever happens to her.

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2 minutes ago, configdotsys said:

That they were labeled prostitutes really pissed me off. These were girls with very dysfunctional families who thought $200 was a ton of money. They were used and manipulated by these people because they knew that these girls would be written off as low class scammers who were not to be believed.

The "prostitute" label makes me see red, too.  So many fundamental flaws here.  First and foremost, as minors they were legally incapable of consenting to sex with an adult to begin with, so cops/reporters shouldn't even be talking about what they did and did not do.  But once we do start that discussion, they didn't solicit money for sex!  They didn't knowingly accept a solicitation of sex for money!  They accepted an offer of a massage gig (often accompanied by the promise the dude seeking a massage is a powerful philanthropist who likes to help and could become a benefactor in an educational/training pursuit that would lead them to a better life).

When they got there, they were stunned, confused, and frightened by sexual abuse at the hands of an older, wildly wealthy and powerful man who blatantly and calmly stated he's connected to the cops and can get away with anything.  Any return visit(s) and/or recruiting of other girls, now knowing what "massage" was code for, must be viewed in that original context (and of their financial desperation, history of abuse/neglect, age, etc.).

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12 hours ago, configdotsys said:

I still am not understanding why Virginia-- who specifically said that she was rented out to powerful people-- is not naming names.

She did name some names and got called a whore, a slut, and a liar just out for money.    What would naming more names accomplish?   WE believe her.    But those who can actually do something about the Jeffrey Epsteins of the World do not.   Dershowitiz is STILL claiming her story has inconsistencies in it so that means she is lying and he never touched her.   Oh well, forgive me if the sex trafficking victim didn't get the fucking receipts and might be confused on which date specifically you raped her.   

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5 hours ago, merylinkid said:

She did name some names and got called a whore, a slut, and a liar just out for money.    What would naming more names accomplish?   WE believe her.    But those who can actually do something about the Jeffrey Epsteins of the World do not.   Dershowitiz is STILL claiming her story has inconsistencies in it so that means she is lying and he never touched her.   Oh well, forgive me if the sex trafficking victim didn't get the fucking receipts and might be confused on which date specifically you raped her.   

Um, to state the obvious: naming names would bring these people into the public eye and likely result in investigative reporters and such looking into what was going on there. These situations thrive in darkness. Public disclosure usually results in more and more people coming forward who are able to corroborate the stories of others. That's how cases are built.

And what whistleblower ever existed that was embraced by the people they accused? It's part of being a whistleblower that those you are talking about will try everything possible to discredit you and deflect attention from themselves. If being called names was enough to make people be quiet, we'd have no whistleblowers at all. Cosby would still be free as would Harvey Weinstein. Epstein never would have been arrested. I don't think that's the world we should desire to live in.

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Names have been named.   In the Maxwell case, various records were unsealed.   Including a lot of Virginia Roberts' documents.   That pic of her with Prince Andrew?   FBI had it for YEARS.    They made copies for their file.   She also stated that she was forced to have sex with Andrew while underage.    

Dershowitz said "prove it."   Guess whose name is ALL over the unsealed records?    Why it would be Alan Dershowitz.   Who helped negotiate the infamous plea deal that not only covered Epstein but "all other co-conspirators" i.e. his own sick sorry ass.   which is  a conflict of interest.

Some other names there but we can't mention on this forum due to rules on politics.  

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