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S01.E04: Josefina and the Holy Spirit

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AIRING MAY 17/ 20

Tiago scours Sister Molly's beach house for clues; Peter Craft invites Elsa to a party; Lewis asks a gangster to help battle the growing Nazi menace in Los Angeles; Josefina Vega has a harrowing encounter with the police; Mateo seeks retribution.

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First off- poor poor poor Josefina. She sought comfort at Sister Molly’s church (which it looks like she got), but if she ever learns about Tiago and Molly she is going to feel betrayed. 
 

Secondly- Magda sure has her hold on Mateo now that he’s killed someone in cold blood. That POS racist cop certainly deserved it giving his torture and abuse of innocent people (wanting to mutilate Mateo for crying over his brother and then sexually assaulting Josefina for walking down the damn street), I’m glad he’s gone BUT this is going to come back to bite the Chicano community in the ass (not like they weren’t being harassed by the police already). 
 

Thirdly- the councilman is such a stupid fool. You think that studly young man wants to fuck you just because? And they have everything on tape. In the same vein Magda has played that doctor like a fiddle, and Mrs Craft might me more than her role of “abused mistreated wife” bargained for. 
 

Another great episode in my book. 

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I forgot to comment on the Detective- he does still have a code (hence why he didn’t shoot the guy), but it’s clear he has the ear of the mobster’s right hand man. 

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Birthday boy needs Frasier Crane! Stat!!

Lewis refused to shoot that guy...so the mob IS going to help from now on?

Tiago will end up shooting Mateo

Edited by paigow

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16 minutes ago, paigow said:

Lewis refused to shoot that guy...so the mob IS going to help from now on?

Yes I think the mob is going to help him. 

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2 hours ago, paigow said:

Lewis refused to shoot that guy...so the mob IS going to help from now on?

It's in their best interests, at least as Jews, to help him break up the Nazi plan to steal the rocket information.  Not that they won't, as gangsters, seek something in it for themselves.

I'm confused a bit on the timeline.  I thought the V2 wasn't even under development until well into WWII, and this is set in the late 30's?  Or am I wrong on that?

I can see the head Nazi playing the film for Councilman Brainless and saying to him, "Would you like to rephrase that?"

It seems odd that the mob would be smuggling weapons out to Palestine through Mexico.  True, no one would be looking for them on that side of the country, but it would sure be a long trip by cargo ship all the way to the Middle East.

Am I evil to think that Sister Molly was going to vomit out a swarm of flies, a la The Green Mile at the climax of her sermon?

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Surprised that Trojan condoms predate WW2. Tiago is now less likely to get VD. Hope Rico finds a good car wash.

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1 hour ago, paigow said:

Surprised that Trojan condoms predate WW2. Tiago is now less likely to get VD. Hope Rico finds a good car wash.

Condoms (the modern version of them) have been around a long long time. I think the Trojan brand got popular in the 1920s.  

 

8 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

I thought the V2 wasn't even under development until well into WWII, and this is set in the late 30's?  Or am I wrong on that?

I’m taking it that this is the primary intel on the rocket. WWII isn’t that far away, it’s 1938 now and the USA entered the the war at the end of 1941. I’m sure scientist were working on it well before it was an official project (on either side). 

 

8 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

I can see the head Nazi playing the film for Councilman Brainless and saying to him, "Would you like to rephrase that?"

 

That guy is so damn STUPID and wimpy I cannot see how he even made it to city council. Ugh he annoys me. 

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Von Braun was working on rockets in the 30s. I just don't think they were calling it the V2 yet. But it makes more sense to the audience than talking about the A4.

I don't see the conflict between Chaos and Death, will there be a third entity of Life/Order that appears?

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I like Natalie Dormer, but this show just reminds me how much better Tatiana Maslany (sic) from Orphan Black was at portraying multiple characters. Nathan Lane is great, Tiago, meh, but I'm enjoying the show. Can't wait to see Nazis get their do.

 

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7 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

That guy is so damn STUPID and wimpy I cannot see how he even made it to city council. 

Last episode, Tiago was waiting for a bus owned by the Townsend Transportation Co. 

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Mateo killing Reilly, while certainly a bad thing because its leading him down a dark and corrupted path and will probably just create even more tension between the Hispanic community and the cops, and murder is bad and stuff, and its all a part of Magdas evil plan, but...Reilly was such a despicable piece of shit, I cant be too mad. Its like every second he was around he was more and more horrible, if he lived much longer, we would have probably seen him stealing food from orphans and kicking puppies. 

Poor Josefina, no wonder she went to Sister Molly for comfort, and while I am glad that she seemed to get some, and I dont think that Sister Molly is a bad guy or anything, but I dont see her joining this church ending well. There are clearly very bad sketchy things happening here, especially with Sister Molly's creepy ass mom, and their whole family are in the cross hairs of Magda. 

That kid of Magdas, whoever or whatever he is, is so freaking creepy. Poor Tommy, now he is stuck with this creepy ass kid and his ghosts because his dad is hot for his mom. 

So Lewis calls in the big guns, freaking Murder Inc! Brad Garrrett is always welcome, this should certainly be interesting, bringing the mob in as yet another faction in all of this. In real life, the mob were certainly no fans of the Nazis (especially the Jewish mob, for obvious reasons) for the most part and actually did make moves against them a few times, so as wild as all this seems, it does have some actual historical basis. 

Loved when the councilwoman schooled Townsend, she really took his ass out to the cleaners. Yeah Townsend, I am sure that the young hot Nazi assassin/driver totally wants a piece of you and has no ultierer motives whatsoever. You can totally see him being the kind of narcissist who would totally think that, what a dumbass. At least Dr. Kraft can at least imagine the young sexy mom would want his pudgy Nazi self based on a damsel in distress thing or because he has money. He sure did look unhappy about her talking to that young guy though, and his wife isn't going out without a fight.

I really hope that Tiego doesn't have to shot Mateo, its bad enough having to shoot one brother (who is doing a lot better and is pretty cool about the shooting thing) let alone two. 

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There could be more twisted stuff if Mama Vega saves birthday boy by calling Santa Muerte again. Then Dr. Nazi will owe Tiago a favour....

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I know it’s a super weird time for everything, including television, but I wanted to say I really appreciate that you guys are discussing these episodes. I’ve had a hard time focusing on the show (and everything else), and the posts here have helped my quarantine brain actually connect with the material and understand what’s happening. 

I loved OG Penny Dreadful, and I love many of the performers here (Natalie Dormer and Kerry Bishe are in my top ten actresses for sure), but the OG version was so in your face with the Victorian horror from the jump that you got pulled right in. This one is a little slower paced and doesn’t “pop” the same way for someone with a short attention span like me (and one who has never been terribly intrigued by the 30s/40s). But after reading the posts here, I’ve started rewatching from the beginning and am much more invested now. 

Are there any carryover performers besides Caliban/John Clare?

 

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Reilly was a rotten human being who deserved to die. What he did to Josefina was disgusting and hard to watch. He has been a racist scumbag since the start. The police department failed miserably in doing nothing about the guy and letting him carry on with his garbage. They should have fired the guy years earlier, but they seemed to turn a blind eye. They are the ones who deserve blame for what happened. The pachucos did the city a favor by eliminating that scumbag.

This show has tremendous casting. Seeing Brad Garrett show up in that role was a true treat! Interesting that both Mateo and Lewis were both told to kill someone and only Mateo did it. Didn't Lewis comment in an earlier episode that he had never used his gun before while on the job?

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11 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Councilman Brainless

May he be called this from now on. (I still don't remember his name). 

7 hours ago, BigBlueMastiff said:

I like Natalie Dormer, but this show just reminds me how much better Tatiana Maslany (sic) from Orphan Black was at portraying multiple characters.

That's not a fair game. Who could? To be fair, she is doing a good job. 

So it's looking like this murder case is unraveling a whole lot more. 

Molly's little rant was a bit much for me to think she's not playing a role whining to Tiago.

Edited by DoctorAtomic
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29 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Molly's little rant was a bit much for me to think she's not playing a role whining to Tiago.

I think Molly does hate her cage but loves being the bird inside of it. She loves singing and being an inspiration but not the way her mother treats her. If she really hated her life that badly she would’ve left- she obviously has enough freedom to meet lovers at the beach, so it’s not as if she’s being kept prisoner. 

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2 hours ago, kieyra said:

Are there any carryover performers besides Caliban/John Clare?

I'm looking, but haven't seen any more. I was wondering if his place here indicates that this is the same universe. No sweater carryover either. Yet. 

20 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

It's in their best interests, at least as Jews, to help him break up the Nazi plan to steal the rocket information.  Not that they won't, as gangsters, seek something in it for themselves.

I think it underscores how dire the nazi threat that Nathan Lane is going to organized crime for help. I mean, we know they're a threat, but it's a good way for the show to place that within the show. Also Nathan Lane saying 'FUCKING RIGHT I AM' to the mob boss too. 

I get the times and all, but the overly racist cop takes me out of the show. It's just so over the top. I mean I get it, conceptually, but even with a show about a demon, I'm finding my suspension of disbelief strained. 

So basically he's just a plot point. 

Edited by DoctorAtomic
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9 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

I think Molly does hate her cage but loves being the bird inside of it.

I'm stealing this.

I think there's more going on in the actual case. She was all, 'oh, so I slept with him and now you think I killed him.' It is a murder investigation, and you lied to the police. They're likely going to want to follow up. It was a little too over the top even for a someone who is a drama queen. 

 

Edited by DoctorAtomic
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Molly’s reaction to being questioned about sleeping with the murder victim (which is a totally legit line of questioning for a cop) was so over the top, that I feel positive that she is hiding things. Probably attached to her mom, or maybe she really does get visions but her mom is using her gifts for nefarious purposes? 

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58 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I get the times and all, but the overly racist cop takes me out of the show. It's just so over the top. I mean I get it, conceptually, but even with a show about a demon, I'm finding my suspension of disbelief strained. 

I’m not surprised at all at the cop’s behavior. LA isn’t the Jim Crow south but those types were everywhere. Tiago is the VERY FIRST Chicano detective on the LA PD, only a Jewish detective would take him as a partner. Thats an indicator as to where he stands in this society. 
 

The guy is certainly a “bad cop”, the casual racism of the lieutenant is more of what the “average” sentiment was but those types existed and went unchecked. 

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44 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I get the times and all, but the overly racist cop takes me out of the show. It's just so over the top. I mean I get it, conceptually, but even with a show about a demon, I'm finding my suspension of disbelief strained. 

The LA police department had a long history of bad behavior, as did many big city departments in those days. I think that cop wouldn't have been seen as unusual. A cop like Bud White in LA Confidential would have been unusual.

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48 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I'm stealing this.

I think there's more going on in the actual case. She was all, 'oh, so I slept with him and now you think I killed him.' It is a murder investigation, and you lied to the police. They're likely going to want to follow up. It was a little too over the top even for a someone who is a drama queen. 

 

Oh yeah for sure! I don’t think she killed the guy and his family, but don’t act so outdone when you were sleeping with someone that ended up dead and kept it from the cops when they came to question you about his gruesome murder. 
 

 This is a murder investigation not a gossip tabloid. You MIGHT have info that could catch the killer. 

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Ironically, the Nazis would not care about the exact motorway route...just that Via Hermosa gets paid...Councilwoman Beck would make a better mayor that could be killed off later...

If "meat hook guy" had been the actual killer, Lewis would have plugged him

Edited by paigow

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Not to pile on, but yeah - having a cop in LA be that racist and violent against Mexicans/Mexican-Americans in the 1930’s is one of the most believable things about the show for me.

I did an Ancestry family tree last year and found about 3 Josefinas on my Dad’s side.  I guess I hadn’t paid attention to what the sister’s name was until this week but that made me smile.  Until that cop found her, that is.

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6 hours ago, paigow said:

Last episode, Tiago was waiting for a bus owned by the Townsend Transportation Co. 

Which, as we all know, became the infamous Townsend Directive, right?  Let's hope the FBI doesn't get involved in this...

1 hour ago, Broderbits said:

The LA police department had a long history of bad behavior, as did many big city departments in those days.

The "Zoot Suit Riots" in Los Angeles were only a few years off.  I think there's a Wikipedia page on it if people are interested.

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1 minute ago, Dowel Jones said:

Which, as we all know, became the infamous Townsend Directive, right?  Let's hope the FBI doesn't get involved in this...

OMG..Magda is Reddington & Katarina

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Not sure if I can’t stand Molly because of Molly or if it’s residual hate for Donna from Halt and Catch Fire.

It can’t be easy to beat a demon but I so want to see the doctor’s wife outmaneuver “Elsa”.

With the Caltech stuff I half expected a cameo by Jack Reynor as Jack Parsons. A crossover with Strange Angel would be really fitting.

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18 hours ago, BigBlueMastiff said:

I like Natalie Dormer, but this show just reminds me how much better Tatiana Maslany (sic) from Orphan Black was at portraying multiple characters. Nathan Lane is great, Tiago, meh, but I'm enjoying the show. Can't wait to see Nazis get their do.

I like Natalie but do we even need her to be the evil demon? That whole story line seems unnecessary, the rest of it is compelling enough, and the bad acts would happen without her stirring shit.  

I thought Brad Garrett would be Bugsy Siegel, was he supposed to be a real person?   He's good in dramatic roles. 

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Lewis is The Depression Era version of Stannis Baratheon - Grammar Nazi.

[Interior: Meat locker]

Berman: Kill him. Less rats in my gang.

Lewis: Fewer.

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2 minutes ago, teddysmom said:

I like Natalie but do we even need her to be the evil demon? That whole story line seems unnecessary, the rest of it is compelling enough, and the bad acts would happen without her stirring shit.  

Then we would just have a historical fiction murder mystery/crime drama (which would be fine), but Magda as the demon is a representation of the darkness inside everyone. I think the point is that we all have darkness within us, which can be manipulated if we aren’t self aware enough to check it.  

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Just now, Scarlett45 said:

Then we would just have a historical fiction murder mystery/crime drama (which would be fine), but Magda as the demon is a representation of the darkness inside everyone. I think the point is that we all have darkness within us, which can be manipulated if we aren’t self aware enough to check it. 

I get that, and it's an interesting way to approach this story of LA in the 30s.  I like it either way.  I love the actor playing the doctor. He was SO good in the original Penny Dreadful. 

That little story Frank told at the slumber party was creepy AF.  I thought for sure he was going to kill whatever the animal in the cage was, a hamster I guess?  

He does look like Natalie, I wonder if that's CGI or they just found a boy who resembles her. 

I really do like this whole series.  Lots of Nazi fighting shows these days...

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1 minute ago, teddysmom said:

He does look like Natalie, I wonder if that's CGI or they just found a boy who resembles her. 

I really do like this whole series.  Lots of Nazi fighting shows these days...

I think they just cast a boy that resembles her, Santino Barnard is his name.  I have seen him in other things. But I have to say the child actor is doing a great job because I am officially CREEPED OUT. With his big eyes and facial structure he should be an attractive man in 20years. 
 

I think the Nazi fighting shows bring us comfort because we know how it ended. 

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3 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

I think the Nazi fighting shows bring us comfort because we know how it ended. 

ITA. Hunters, and Plot Against America, it's a whole genre that I think is giving people some comfort.   How much more can I love Nathan Lane? He is SO good in this. 

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Nitpick a bit, and this has been happening since episode 2, but it irritates me that characters who are supposed to be German who were born and raised in Germany speak with each other in English with fake German accent. Either they speak German entirely or speak German at the beginning and continue with normal English (alla Vikings). It becomes even more ridiculous at the gathering when they sing German song in German but speaking English with German words thrown in. 

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23 minutes ago, teddysmom said:

I like Natalie but do we even need her to be the evil demon? That whole story line seems unnecessary, the rest of it is compelling enough, and the bad acts would happen without her stirring shit.  

I actually wish we were seeing more of Magda, and definitely more of Santa Muerte. I think we still don't really know Santa Muerte's actual 'motivation', so to speak. Incarnation of death, seems to hate her job, knows there's A Prophecy, and that's about all we've got. 

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11 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

I think the Nazi fighting shows bring us comfort because we know how it ended. 

Not only that, but from the storyteller's point of view the Nazi is a convenience. They can be depicted as bad or as evil as possible and nobody will dare to criticize, while remains politically correct. 

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Isn't Santa Muerte's purpose to bring the dead to heaven? That's why she's there when people die?  

 A personification of death, she is associated with healing, protection, and safe delivery to the afterlife by her devotees

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18 minutes ago, teddysmom said:

Isn't Santa Muerte's purpose to bring the dead to heaven? That's why she's there when people die?  

 A personification of death, she is associated with healing, protection, and safe delivery to the afterlife by her devotees

I think that's right.  It was telling that she only took the little girl after the massacre (which was the gun stealing we heard about later right?). 

I said it after the first episode and I'll say it again, I love the costuming and make up on her.

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4 minutes ago, TexasGal said:

I think that's right.  It was telling that she only took the little girl after the massacre (which was the gun stealing we heard about later right?). 

I said it after the first episode and I'll say it again, I love the costuming and make up on her.

Yes that's what I got. I read a review that said it was a flashback, that the girl was Maria, but when the Brad Garrett character spoke of it when they had the guy strung up in the butcher shop, it had just happened. 

Plus the cars and clothing indicated it was current day, not 50 or so years earlier, and the girl wasn't Maria because Maria's still alive. 

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1 hour ago, Scarlett45 said:

Then we would just have a historical fiction murder mystery/crime drama (which would be fine), but Magda as the demon is a representation of the darkness inside everyone. I think the point is that we all have darkness within us, which can be manipulated if we aren’t self aware enough to check it.  

That's kind of the gist of using the Penny Dreadful name. It's an established premise in this show universe. 

Also sweaters. 

I keep thinking how perfect it would have been if Eva Greene was Santa Meurte though. 

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13 minutes ago, TexasGal said:

I think that's right.  It was telling that she only took the little girl after the massacre...

She saved Raul in the hospital because...she decides who lives or dies?? [The Pretender]

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16 minutes ago, TexasGal said:

I think that's right.  It was telling that she only took the little girl after the massacre (which was the gun stealing we heard about later right?). 

I said it after the first episode and I'll say it again, I love the costuming and make up on her.

My Mom and I watch this show together (our Sunday night bonding during quarantine) and she said “the girl was the only innocent”, when she saw her being carried away by Santa Muerte.  

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4 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I keep thinking how perfect it would have been if Eva Greene was Santa Meurte though. 

Or Ethan was the detective/werewolf. 

I'm still pissed at how PD ended. I sat on my bed for 20 minutes yelling at the tv. 

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On 5/17/2020 at 7:27 PM, Scarlett45 said:

And they have everything on tape.

Film. The show is not *that* anachronistic.

On 5/17/2020 at 7:44 PM, paigow said:

Lewis refused to shoot that guy...so the mob IS going to help from now on?

That was a bit off. You call in the mob, you already *are* responsible for the murders that ensue. But you can still impress them with your ethics by refusing to get your hands dirty. What?

 

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21 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I think Molly does hate her cage but loves being the bird inside of it. She loves singing and being an inspiration but not the way her mother treats her.

It's clear in that last sermon she went off script. I think at some point we'll see that she has real paranormal senses and is reacting to forces that are stirring things up.

Edited by dr pepper · Reason: oops, mispelling.
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15 hours ago, dr pepper said:

I think at some point we'll see that she has real paranormal senses and is reacting to forces that are stirring things up.

Force sensitive, she is. Many midichlorians there must be.

Edited by paigow
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For those that might be curious, the murder and dismemberment story of the little girl Florence Moore is based on the real-life Los Angeles case of Marion Parker from 1927.

This link goes to a great history site called "Deranged LA Crimes: True 20th Century tales of murder, mayhem, political corruption, and celebrity scandal", and the Aggie of the title is notable LA reporter Aggie Underwood. She gained fame for her reportage of the Black Dahlia murder, but her career started much earlier.

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1 hour ago, dr pepper said:

It's clear in that last sermon she went off script. I think at some point we'll see that she has real paranormal senses and is reacting to forces that are stirring things up.

Now I’m wondering: do we have any viewers who did *not* watch the original series? Because if you haven’t seen Eva Green being possessed by an ancient evil ... you haven’t seen anything.

And yes, I was waiting for Molly to go there during that last sermon. Creepy mom clearly knew something wasn’t right. 

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