S06.E18: Pay the Piper

[Trini]

When Godspeed returns, Barry turns to Hartley Rathaway (guest star Andy Mientus) for help. However, things get tense quickly after Barry realizes one of the changes from Crisis is that The Flash and Pied Piper are now enemies. Meanwhile, Iris tries to escape the Mirrorverse.

Amanda Tapping directed the episode written by Jess Carson.

Airdate: 5/5/2020

[scarynikki12]

I’d like to see Cisco in Atlantis.

Disappointed we had no smoochies for Hartley and Roderick. 

[bettername2come]

I'm glad someone called out Cisco's hair being a dead giveaway to him being Vibe. I love his hair and never want it put up, but it was very impractical not to hide it.

I feel bad for not even thinking of Singh's husband when we found out about the evil doppelgangers. Also, did we know Cisco and Kamilah were living together? I feel like that's a little soon. Maybe I just still wish he were with Cynthia. Good crying by Carlos this ep. Cecile gives good pep talks. Cisco saying "No, ma'am" to her at the end was kind of adorable. Cisco never should have given up his powers. I hate that character arc. It has never rung true to me. 

Barry is an idiot for not realizing Hartley was in love with Rodrick. "Or you can be the person that Rodrick fell in love with." Look, I realize Hartley's morality changes in literally every episode he appears in, but, um, didn't Rodrick fall in love with a supervillain who was totally up for killing The Flash? And in the original timeline, Barry didn't learn to throw lightning until season 2, right?

Hee hee. Frost was reading one of Mick's books. I do think she and Ralph have cute interactions. But I'm ready for Danielle Panabaker to go to on maternity leave since she really can't do anything. 

Ooh, are we actually gonna get to see Atlantis?

[BeautifulFlower]

I didn't care for the Killer Frost plot. Look, I get Danielle was getting ready to go on maternity leave around this time, but it was pointless. This whole plot is pointless. Unless she was playing the title character, they didn't need to create this plot. Similar to Cisco and Ralph, they could've just had a character have one line explaining where she was off screen.

Anyway, I liked this episode.

It's nice for them to have Godspeed stealing speed like in the comics. So this still wasn't the real Godspeed. I have a feeling it wasn't Godspeed himself who's been sending the clones.

I'm so glad Barry went to Joe first. That scene was nice.

I knew Roderick was Hartley's boyfriend from the get go. It sucks we didn't get an onscreen kiss from them.

I wish we saw Singh's husband.

It was so nice to see someone comfort Iris. I really like Kamilla and Iris friendship. Please have her stick around next season.

Why does the mirrorverse mess with your mind? I don't get it.

The team up with Flash and Pied Piper at the end was nice.

[Lady Calypso]

48 minutes ago, BeautifulFlower said:

I didn't care for the Killer Frost plot. Look, I get Danielle was getting ready to go on maternity leave around this time, but it was pointless. This whole plot is pointless. Unless she was playing the title character, they didn't need to create this plot. Similar to Cisco and Ralph, they could've just had a character have one line explaining where she was off screen.

Honestly, I thought last episode, when she said she was going to go talk to her mother, that was going to be her exit. But no, apparently we need even more scenes of her talking to people as she's going off to go see her mother. But this time, it's Frost complaining about Caitlin's mother not liking her or something. I actually do like Frost and Ralph's friendship, but it was totally pointless here. At the very least, if they were going to keep Danielle in for a few episodes, have her be in STAR Labs, helping out from a bed. 

They literally could have had Caitlin or Frost be useful at STAR Labs if they really needed DP for a few more episodes. It also annoys me because I'm not sure whether they kept DP laying down for the last two episodes because DP was on bedrest or if it was the show's choice because it was the easiest way to conceal her pregnancy. But they really did her dirty by giving her pointless scenes. 

Overall, the episode was...decent enough. I love Hartley, and Andy Mientus, so I was pleased to see him return, although...show, c'mon, is he an enemy or a friend? Because it changes every time the timeline changes. Hopefully this one sticks, and we can see Hartley again. Although Roderick being his boyfriend was absolutely predictable, and how annoyed I am that we couldn't have seen Hartley kiss Roderick when they saved him, or at least embrace him lovingly in any sort of way (though this is always a show problem with ANY sort of intimacy with the straight couples...however, this show has not done very well in the LGBTQ department, even with Singh being married to his husband), it still had a nice ending (though that's credit to both actors). Plus, we got at least six different pep talks in this episode. It reminded me of season 1, where there were the most pep talks that this show has ever produced...and these characters often need pep talks in the first place.

But with Hartley teaming up with Team Flash for the episode, it only makes me bitter that he couldn't be a permanent member of the team while next season, we get Whats-His-Face...Chester, I think? 

Moving into the Mirror World, it looks like Iris is being driven mad by the world like Eva has been. It looks like there will be some permanent damage when Iris eventually gets out. But now there's a time limit with Kamilla and Singh probably not far behind either. 

I'm glad we got to see Joe for a scene; it would have been ridiculous if Barry didn't go find Joe to tell him about the Iris stuff, so I'm glad we got to see it play out.

Cisco....is angry about a lot, which reminds me of angry season 3 Cisco. But man, am I still not feeling Cisco/Kamilla. Both have talked about loving each other, and we've had scenes of them together, but...I dunno, last season had Kamilla acting differently in an unlikeable way for me than this season, and I also just don't feel the chemistry like there was between Cisco/Gypsy. So...it's just a big fat meh on that front. 

[bmoore4026]

I want Piper and his boyfriend to become regulars.

Also, I want a spinoff with Frost and Ralph once this show ends.

[thuganomics85]

So.  Many.  PEP TALKS!!!!

I'm actually surprised the show went out of its way to address Singh's husband and have someone talking about looping him in.  Nicely done, continuity department!

While it makes sense to have everyone on edge after what happened, it wasn't the most fun seeing everyone being so grouchy and hostile towards one another.  Of course, part of the problem is that the show really hasn't done a good enough job with the Cisco and Kamilla relationship that it was hard for me to really be that invested in his pain and turmoil, despite Carlos Valdes being on point as always.  Interestingly, I actually felt more for Cisco when Gypsy died, compared to what is going on now.  And then there was the whole Nash/Allegra drama, which I'm still not a fan of either.  In short, I only felt truly bad for Barry in those scene, and I just wanted everyone else to chill.  At least Cecile and Ralph (when he was actually allowed to be in the main story) were able to maintain cool heads.

Great seeing Piper/Hartley again and Andy Mientus shined once more.  But was it really suppose to be a surprise that Roderick was actually his boyfriend and not just his henchman?  Because it was pretty damn obvious after the first frame, but they were treated his mid-episode reveal to Barry like it was huge twist.  Whatever.  Glad that everything worked out for now, and I wouldn't mind seeing him and Team Flash become reluctant allies again (although, I think Cisco would disagree with me there!)

For a second, I thought that maybe they were going to reverse Godspeed's powers somehow, so that Barry can get his Speed Force back, but I guess not.  And it seems like the real Godspeed is still out there.

Another episode where Ralph is basically there to prop up Frost, as she frets over her/Caitlin's mom not accepting her and whatnot.  Sigh...

Glad Iris found the real Kamilla, but now something is going on with her mind in the mirror world?  Oh, boy!

Eva's got herself a human or robot body now?!

Looks like next week will be the impromptu season finale.  I'm hoping/speculating that they will be able to rescue Iris (and Kamilla/Singh) at least, so that can still provide some closure, and then the remaining Eva (and possibly Bloodwork) stuff will come back into play next season.

[Cthulhudrew]

4 hours ago, bettername2come said:

Barry is an idiot for not realizing Hartley was in love with Rodrick. "Or you can be the person that Rodrick fell in love with."

Was I the only one thinking "Um, Barry. He fell in love with a criminal."

#badpeptalks

[Trini]

Wow, an entire episode of pep talks! I know it's a recurring element, and part of the show's formula, but it was a lot for one episode. However I did like most of the pairings, and it was nice that certain characters (Iris, Cisco) got the emotional support they usually don't get.

It was also a nice change of pace to have characters slow down and talk. I didn't like that there was some unnecessary yelling, though. I get that emotions and tensions were high, but Nash and Nash/Allegra in particular I could have done without.

Speaking of talks, they almost got teary from the start with the Joe and Barry scenes! But I'm glad Barry went to tell Joe what happened, because it was irking me that Joe was out of the loop.

Good to see Iris, and good to see that the Mirrorverse extends beyond that one room! Iris leaving a message for Barry - again. 😥  I'm glad that Iris and Kamilla are going to work together, but I fear we won't actually see much of that.

The writers continue to disappoint me with how they've adapted Godspeed. I think they like the costume more than the actual character. And now there's another mystery behind Godspeed -- sigh. There are too many recurring/ongoing mysteries/arcs right now - and none of them are getting enough focus.

Also, no one was curious about how Godspeed somehow knows that Barry Allen is the Flash??  I know we joke how it's an open secret, but it's still kind of a big thing to gloss over.

I did really like the A-plot with Pied Piper. Nice to have Andy Mientus back, and picking right back up with Hartley's Season 1 characterization of being snarky, and making sure everyone knows he's smarter than them all - ha! But also being vulnerable too. It was cool that he has other powers now too -- I don't think it's strictly super-hearing, but he can pick up vibrations from far away.

So, Captain Cold, Grodd, and now Pied Piper. Which other villain is Barry going to help reform? But I kind of do like that Barry/The Flash is one of the heroes that can talk down his adversaries.

It was a little jarring hearing about how Cisco and Kamilla are the love of each other's lives but we've haven't seen that onscreen. They've really done the least to develop that relationship.

It was a little repetitive, but I did appreciate that the writer managed to carry the theme of forgiving yourself/believing in yourself/moving forward into all the plots.

(The synopsis for this episode was pretty inaccurate. Odd.)

[Trini]

Andy Mientus tweeted some BTS info in this thread:

 

[Trini]

Forgot to mention -- yet another McGuffin for Cisco to acquire offscreen. Will he be in the next episode? Pretty sure we're not going to see Atlantis, or associated characters, so I don't like them teasing that.

 

5 hours ago, bettername2come said:

Also, did we know Cisco and Kamilah were living together? I feel like that's a little soon.

It is too soon, but I think they've been living together since at least 6.05, when they showed her sleeping over in Cisco's apartment.

 

5 hours ago, BeautifulFlower said:

I didn't care for the Killer Frost plot. Look, I get Danielle was getting ready to go on maternity leave around this time, but it was pointless. This whole plot is pointless. Unless she was playing the title character, they didn't need to create this plot. Similar to Cisco and Ralph, they could've just had a character have one line explaining where she was off screen.

4 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Honestly, I thought last episode, when she said she was going to go talk to her mother, that was going to be her exit. But no, <...> At the very least, if they were going to keep Danielle in for a few episodes, have her be in STAR Labs, helping out from a bed. 

They literally could have had Caitlin or Frost be useful at STAR Labs if they really needed DP for a few more episodes. It also annoys me because I'm not sure whether they kept DP laying down for the last two episodes because DP was on bedrest or if it was the show's choice because it was the easiest way to conceal her pregnancy. But they really did her dirty by giving her pointless scenes. 

I'm tellin' y'all, if she's not in the A-plot, just skip her scenes.

This is just my speculation, but it seems she was making sure to be in as many episodes as possible before she absolutely had to leave. Maybe that has to do with her contract and pay?

Edited May 6, 2020 by Trini

[quarks]

1. I appreciate the attempt to hide Danielle Panabaker's pregnancy, really, I do, but a) it was not exactly hidden all that well, and b) assuming that she had to be on bed rest as much as possible, I can't help but feel that her couch time could have been integrated in another way - have her say that because she can't control her cold powers or because she has the flu or she's radioactive or whatever, it's not safe for her to come into Star Labs, but she can still consult with Team Flash through a video conference/cell phone or something. It would even be nicely topical and something we can all identify with right now.

Instead, the episode wanted me to believe that, in the middle of a crisis endangering several members of Team Flash and Central City, not to mention the ongoing issue that Star Labs still has zero security so evil speedsters can just speed in whenever, Ralph would run off to deliver a pep talk to Killer Frost - and Killer Frost would let him deliver said pep talk.

The whole wrongness of this was just highlighted by the ongoing commercials for Microsoft Teams (featuring real life scientists, no less!) and by Barry announcing at the end that he needs all hands on deck. Which would presumably mean Ralph and Caitlin/Frost, right? I mean, I realize that the writers could not possibly have predicted those Microsoft Team ads, but they surely could have predicted - or at least read - the end of the script, right?

2. This was not helped by the later plot decision to have Barry zip off to fight Godspeed without Ralph, and, look, I get that Hartley Sawyer/WB have worked out some deal that limits his filming schedule and that the idea was to give Barry hope through the examples of Hartley and Roderick and to "surprise" us with Hartley's "unexpected" appearance, but, Team Flash currently has FOUR, count them, FOUR people with superpowers (Barry, Ralph, Allegra, Cecile). So why does Barry keep heading off on his own? Sure, Cecile's powers only work when the plot wants them to work, but the other two really should be working with/helping Barry out in the field.  

It's bad enough that they didn't call in the other two characters who have superspeed and can even fly at superspeed, but that at least can be handwaved away (although the mention of Atlantis at the end there kinda made it a bit harder to handwave.) To not call in their own team members? Auugh.

3. And, uh, if memory serves, Mirror Iris knew pretty much everything that Iris knew, plus more, so not sure how stories about Kamilla and Cisco counted as something only the real Iris would know. Oh well. At least Kamilla and Iris are united and working together.

[Lantern7]

Why do I have a sinking feeling that if it wasn't for COVID-19 and we'd get the full slate of episodes, this season would still be considered a miss?

Seriously, is Eva the Big Bad? Were the last 4-5 episodes going to have her turn up the heat on Team Flash? As it stands, we get Godspeed . . . and I had to remember that a bunch of him were caught in the season's first episode. We had to be reminded that Piper exists, and that Barry can still retroactively fuck with people's lives without trying even if he isn't doing it by himself. And we get pep talks piled upon pep talks, and Cisco setting off to . . . Atlantis.

Atlantis.

Uh huh.

I don't know . . . it just feels like you'd need a bigger budget for Cisco to go under the sea, and that had been stretched thin by the Grodd episode.

"Dib-ploma." Ralph actually printed that up for Frost. Actually, that is adorable. Of course, her story will no doubt be Corona-corralled as well as the others.

[phoenics]

13 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

I’d like to see Cisco in Atlantis.

Disappointed we had no smoochies for Hartley and Roderick. 

It was easy to miss, but they had a small peck right before they got on the elevator to leave Star Labs.  Unfortunately it immediately blurred out and the focus went back to Barry.

I really enjoyed this episode.  It's upped the stakes and the urgency, which I think the previous episodes lacked (except the one right before this one - that one was great).  But I appreciated the heart of this episode.  It's also the first ep written by the new writer, Jess Carson (a black woman finally!) and I think she did a great job.  I finally felt more of an emotional punch this season has been lacking (except the previous episode and 2 episodes in the first half of the season).

This show really is better when Barry is centered, along with his relationship with Iris, and his family (Joe, etc..).  That's the heart this show needs so much.  

I have a feeling whoever is controlling the Godspeeds - it's not actually Godspeed.  My radar made me think Thawne or Zoom?  Or another speedster who knows who Barry is already.

I LOVED the scene with Barry and Joe - way to keep the stakes high and way to have Barry go to Joe first about Iris.  So glad to see him get the news before the rest of the team.  Though - I wouldn't have minded Barry telling Cisco alone - and then having the team come and learn the rest.  But that's minor.

The only major complaint I have is that KF's subplot was completely unnecessary filler just to give her something to do and keep her onscreen.  It shows how the character could disappear and the show would not suffer one bit.  And seeing poor Ralph used to prop her up is sad.  Speaking of - I miss seeing Ralph in more episodes.  I think he has great onscreen chemistry with the rest of the cast - especially Barry/Iris and that's been absent this season.  What's going on with Ralph/Hartley?  Is he doing other stuff?

I'm worried for Iris.  I still don't think she's getting out next episode - and I'm worried about her mental state when she finally does get out.  

Poor Barry.  He's really gonna be beating himself up about not knowing it wasn't Iris if he can't get her out soon and if she suffers any permanent damage.

But I swear - they better not pull a Lois & Clark ending like that frog-eating clone storyline and make Iris get amnesia!!

 

 

[Starry]

I was bored to be honest.

Too many pep talks.

Too many fake science talks.

Too much Frost coddling. I don't understand how having mommy issues means she has to say goodbye to her life coach. What's the correlation?

 

7 hours ago, quarks said:

3. And, uh, if memory serves, Mirror Iris knew pretty much everything that Iris knew, plus more, so not sure how stories about Kamilla and Cisco counted as something only the real Iris would know.

Too many plot holes.

Last year they gave King Shark and his wife plenty of romance scenes and a kiss but the gay couple can't have a real reunion complete with hugs and kisses. Noted.

It took Barry forever to realize that Hartley was in love with Rodrick. You don't angst this much over a team mate, no matter how valuable he may be.

I liked that Barry felt bad about not realizing he had been living with an imposter and his love for Iris is what made him empathize with Hartley and understand why he said that his world was over.

Did Barry search the entire city/state to find Joe? I don't think he was supposed to know where he was hiding.

Carlos did a good job with Cisco's more emotional scenes. I wish there had been better build-up to him and Kamilla as a couple. They've ignored them for so long I don't really buy the great love that they share.

I could do without the Nash and Allegra drama.

Godspeed was once again a filler villain but I wonder if he is connected to Black Hole or if they're already setting up the big bad for season 7.

[adora721]

The level of blandness with Cisco and Kamilla's supposed great love has increased beyond my tolerance. There's nothing genuine about, "He's the love of your life" or "I'm doing this to help the person I care about most.". None of those words ring true to what's been shown on screen. Talk about telling but not showing.... Ugh! No one believes it, Eric.

For the umpteenth time, why are people apologizing to Killer Frost who has yet to apologize to the women she tried to murder and has yet to apologize to Kamilla for trashing her photography at the art exhibit life coach Ralph took her to? Killer Frost acts likes she's a dangerous child throwing tantrums about nonexistent problems and Ralph has to pacify her by telling her she's just as important as Caitlin. When will she actually grow up and be worthy of that Dib-ploma?!

[phoenics]

24 minutes ago, adora721 said:

The level of blandness with Cisco and Kamilla's supposed great love has increased beyond my tolerance. There's nothing genuine about, "He's the love of your life" or "I'm doing this to help the person I care about most.". None of those words ring true to what's been shown on screen. Talk about telling but not showing.... Ugh! No one believes it, Eric.

It is especially hard to believe given how I forgot Cisco was even with Kamilla in 6.16 when he was flirting with Sue and gushing all over her.  At first I was all charmed and then I was like - wait - he has a girlfriend!!  And she's been replaced and he has no clue!!

I feel like the show does too much telling and not showing for the emotional parts of the show that NEED to be shown, and too much showing and not telling for filler stuff (anything KF really) that don't need to be shown at the expense of the A plot.

 

[tennisgurl]

Truly Barry's greatest superpower isn't his speed, its his ability to talk villains into reforming! This was mostly a good episode, I always think that episodes focused on Barry's family are some of the strongest, even if they are also usually "it sucks to be Barry" episodes. Poor Barry and Iris, its always freaking something. Grant is so good, he really sold Barry's guilt and worry and anger at the whole messed up situation, and I love that he went and told Joe what was going on right away. I would have been really annoyed if they didn't even mention giving Joe a call. 

Nice seeing Hartley again, that poor guy is just constantly stuck in the whims of the multiverse and whatever cosmic retcons are happening this week. First he was evil then he was good post flashpoint then evil again post crisis, at least this possibly real turn to good will stick, as he actually seemed to make the change himself. I called right away that the mook Barry took out was his boyfriend, like come on Barry context clues! I did like how things played out with Hartley and he and Barry made a good team, both fighting together and during the pep talks and their last talk, Andy Mientus shines as always and he plays off the cast really well, I hope that he and his boyfriend can show up again to help out. 

So...many...pep talks. At least most of these were pretty justified, considering how pissed off and mopey everyone was. Cisco especially was in a mood all episode, even snapping at Barry, who was so upset he looked like he was going to start generating lightning bolts by accident or just collapse, which seems rather unfair. If you dont have ideas, stop yelling at Barry to get some! It doesn't help that I still dont really buy Cisco and Kamilla as this big love story. They tell us how in love they are, but they dont spend a lot of time showing us. It also doesn't help that their relationship is tied into Cisco giving up his powers, which was also mentioned, which is by far one of the stupidest, most out of character plots this show has ever done. It was stupid then, its stupid now, and I am amazed that whenever Cisco brings it up, people dont go "yeah I remember you gave up your powers. That was so dumb dude I still dont even get it." Hartley, you want to take that one? I dont hate Kamilla and Cisco or anything, but I never see much spark between them, so I cant get super into their seperation angst. 

I do on the other hand, I really like Kamilla and Iris together, and I am so happy that Iris has somebody to support her, especially as she is apparently catching some of the mirror crazies. And has to leave Barry another sad "If I dont See You Again" message! Seriously, how does this keep happening?!

I am really glad that someone mentioned Singh's husband and that they are going to give him a heads up. Look at the continuity people doing their jobs this week! 

The one subplot that really didn't work for me was Ralph and KF, it was so pointless in the midst of so much drama, and seemed to exist only to explain where Danielle is going to be for awhile and because the writers freaking love to give KF pep talks about what a great awesome hero she is, because sometimes its easier to tell than show I guess. It especially sucked that Ralph got stuck as her life coach when he was one of the only people on Team Flash that was keeping a cool head in all of this, along with Cecile, and could have been a lot of help in the main plot. 

[Samwise979]

Am I the only one that never understands the science mumbo-jumbo. Maybe I don't pay enough attention. "We can use this sound energy to stabilize your boyfriend.  Normally sound energy needs this and this to work but not this sound energy. We can inject this directly into his body" me: huh?? Even when they have someone (like Barry) ask, how does it work? And they dumb it down so the audience can follow along, I'm still, huh?

[catrice2]

Maybe it has been said before but am I missing something? They find out that Singh is not Singh, but they leave Joe in "protective" custody where the not real Singh and his boss know exactly where he is?    Barry moved Joe and I missed it?   The problem with these crossover shows is that it makes not sense for any of them not to call for help when they have all these "friends." 

[Terrafamilia]

2 hours ago, Samwise979 said:

Am I the only one that never understands the science mumbo-jumbo.

This show makes even comic-book science sad.

I was expecting Cecile to clue Barry in on how his mood was affecting his speedforce meter but nooooooo. That crucial info which will lead to a solution to his problem is put off for later.

[Trini]

1 hour ago, Samwise979 said:

Am I the only one that never understands the science mumbo-jumbo. Maybe I don't pay enough attention. "We can use this sound energy to stabilize your boyfriend.  Normally sound energy needs this and this to work but not this sound energy. We can inject this directly into his body" me: huh?? Even when they have someone (like Barry) ask, how does it work? And they dumb it down so the audience can follow along, I'm still, huh?

You're fine. The entire thing didn't make sense. They didn't even try to explain the fantasy "science" this time.

[Trini]

A few re-watch thoughts:

Except for Nash who is still unnecessary and had no reason to be yelling at anybody, I think the new writer here did a good job of getting the emotions of the characters, and having them express their feelings and points of view. A change from the usual dialog that is mostly exposition, and the action/VFX scenes.

Where I think the writer failed is the psuedo-science part of the show.

I did appreciate that they took the time to explore the emotional fallout of the previous episode; but on the other hand we really didn't make much - if any - progress on any of the ongoing plots.

It didn't make sense to me that now was the time to bring back Godspeed as a VOTW after that one tease in the premiere. All we learned is that there's someone else behind these Godspeed copies(?) - which most people guessed anyway? I thought at least they'd tie him to Barry restoring his speed. Seeing as how the speed force is gone, but somehow a cybernetic drone(??) has superspeed.  Maybe it will ties into the main arcs later, or they're setting up an arc for the next season, but we're not going to see those episodes for months - if ever.

I'm glad we finally got an update on Kamilla, but I wish we got more progress on the escaping the Mirrorverse. Nitpick: Since Mirror-Iris had all of Iris' knowledge, Kamilla asking for 'something only Iris would know' wasn't a good test.

They need to stop bringing up how useful Vibe and his powers used to be, because I'm pretty sure they're never giving them back to Cisco.

Kinda weird they never released any promo photos of Godspeed or Pied Piper.

[Starry]

15 hours ago, Trini said:

Except for Nash who is still unnecessary and had no reason to be yelling at anybody

I don't get what's the point of introducing a new Wells every season if all of them end up being rude jerks.

Nash had no business pushing and shoving Barry.

[Lantern7]

Why do I feel like Cisco's trip to Atlantis is going to be like Rick and Morty's trip to Atlantis? That is, we don't see it, and their story is way more fun than what's on screen. Honestly, we'll get Cisco in a wet suit, yelling about how he got "mermaid puss."

I was writing this on tonight's episode thread, but I feel it's better suited here.

[phoenics]

11 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

Why do I feel like Cisco's trip to Atlantis is going to be like Rick and Morty's trip to Atlantis? That is, we don't see it, and their story is way more fun than what's on screen. Honestly, we'll get Cisco in a wet suit, yelling about how he got "mermaid puss."

I was writing this on tonight's episode thread, but I feel it's better suited here.

Actually I feel like this belongs in that thread - given what we ended up getting in 3.19.

[adora721]

The fact that Killer Frost would delay treatment for an injury because KF was scared mommy wouldn't like her is highly selfish and borderline suicidal/homicidal. The injury is so bad that their body went into an ice coma. Caitlin owns the body, too. And she's in danger of dying since the meta powers aren't healing them. What a trash person that Ralph had the gall to call "awesome!"

[phoenics]

On 5/13/2020 at 4:10 PM, adora721 said:

The fact that Killer Frost would delay treatment for an injury because KF was scared mommy wouldn't like her is highly selfish and borderline suicidal/homicidal. The injury is so bad that their body went into an ice coma. Caitlin owns the body, too. And she's in danger of dying since the meta powers aren't healing them. What a trash person that Ralph had the gall to call "awesome!"

I really don’t understand the show’s compulsion to make KF into a saint. It’s unnecessary. It’s worse than Legends and Mivk, but at least Mick stays grumpy. For half the season or more, you couldn’t tell the difference between Cait/KF. 

And since when could Caitlin go out in public or to hospitals, etc? Isn’t KF/CS still technically wanted by CCPD police? Isn’t that why they wouldn’t take her to the hospital in S3 when she was dying of that wound after miraculously directing her own surgery that should have had her pass out from shock?

Frosty Sue strikes again. 

[adora721]

18 hours ago, phoenics said:

And since when could Caitlin go out in public or to hospitals, etc? Isn’t KF/CS still technically wanted by CCPD police?

I believe that Julian dropped the charges against Caitlin in return for Barry's resignation. Remember that Caitlin coerced Barry to allow Julian to join Team Flash to help her with her KF problem. Then Julian developed feelings for her that she took full advantage of by leading him on, even allowing a kiss that she knew would go nowhere. After that, I'm sure that Julian made certain those charges wouldn't ever reappear.

Plus Barry must have convinced Joe to talk to Captain Singh on Cait's behalf, too. The whole world shifts its axis to give Killer Cait a clean slate. And there weren't charges either after she, the doctor sworn to do no harm, and KF worked in meta-human trafficking or tortured people into losing fingers and toes in S4. Such a great example of justice never being served, which reflects the US when it comes to unjustified harm to Black and Brown people by people who look like Cait.

By my count, Cait committed at least 11 felonies in 3x7 alone. She's not an ice meta, she's a Teflon meta.

Edited May 17, 2020 by adora721

[phoenics]

On 5/17/2020 at 12:17 AM, adora721 said:

I believe that Julian dropped the charges against Caitlin in return for Barry's resignation. Remember that Caitlin coerced Barry to allow Julian to join Team Flash to help her with her KF problem. Then Julian developed feelings for her that she took full advantage of by leading him on, even allowing a kiss that she knew would go nowhere. After that, I'm sure that Julian made certain those charges wouldn't ever reappear.

Plus Barry must have convinced Joe to talk to Captain Singh on Cait's behalf, too. The whole world shifts its axis to give Killer Cait a clean slate. And there weren't charges either after she, the doctor sworn to do no harm, and KF worked in meta-human trafficking or tortured people into losing fingers and toes in S4. Such a great example of justice never being served, which reflects the US when it comes to unjustified harm to Black and Brown people by people who look like Cait.

By my count, Cait committed at least 11 felonies in 3x7 alone. She's not an ice meta, she's a Teflon meta.

Caitlin almost dying happened AFTER Julian did all that and they still said Cait couldn't go into the hospital because she was still a wanted meta.  Julian's charges would have just added to her felony count - it didn't wipe out what she'd already done.

So - CS should STILL be wanted by CCPD.

Teflon Meta is right.  ICAM about the way CS is protected and shielded by this show for her actions and what that reflects about our society.  The show will never address this though.  Frosty Sue will never have to pay for what she's done.  The writers believe we've forgotten.

I haven't forgotten any of it.