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S02.E08: Say It Ain't So

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Despite promising Liz that he'll take things easy with his new heart, Max sets out to find Cameron after learning that she's gone missing. Michael grows concerned about Maria after a surprising discovery about her family history leaves her vulnerable. Alex goes on a date with Forrest. Rosa makes a decision about her future.

Airdate: 05/04/2020

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Kudos to the posters who predicted that Walt is in fact Sanders... Hopefully that means we will get some concrete info about the 1947 stuff... Was a bit surprised rosa's thing was a drug filled fantasy but I gotta imagine the actress who played the other girl will pop back up.. Kind of a well known actress for such a small part... May mean something later.. Didn't care about Alex and his paintball date.. And thanks to my DVR I didn't really have to watch it..ditto for his chat with poppa manes... Did enjoy Maria and Isobel working together.. Are we sure Maria and Liz are friends?  Seems they have all their interactions off screen... And until the end I found it kinda weird that her friend has a degenerative alien brain issue but she seemed more interested in helping her boyfriend go look for his old FWB... So at least she dug into at the end... Looking fwd to next week as long as they don't futz about with the 47 stuff

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I'm amused at Max stealing Isobel's "Taylor Swift" wake-up line. I liked Max's plot in general this episode. Liked him as a bartende, gives him more reason to interact with Maria.  Nice job with his regular guy cop skills. He's a good partner. But I'm gonna be really annoyed if that flash of light at the end turns out to be headlights or just missing time. I want answers or at least more interesting questions!

I don't know what Rosa was thinking with her outfit choice. She looked like she stepped out of the 1950s. She took drugs and passed out in a cave, but I think the outfit might have been an even more questionable choice. I am glad she's going to rehab, especially glad it was her idea. I was surprised it was all a dream, but given the dreams Rosa's had lately, it probably isn't just a dream. 

I didn't realize Sanders was Walt until right before it happened. God, is that guy 80? But I really like that and it explains why he's been looking out for Michael. Glad Isobel got to see her mom. And I'm always glad when the group gets more integrated and I'm glad they've worked towards that this season.

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I hope that it's the last we see of Rosa for the rest of the season.  The actress is great, but I am not a fan of the character.

Good call on those who called out who Walt is.  But if he knows that Michael is an alien, I'll be disappointed.I mean, does everyone know that they are aliens?

I am curious to see what happens with Daddy Manes- has he really turned over a new leaf?  And when will we learn more about Uncle Tripp?  (Any excuse to have Jason Behr back).

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14 minutes ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

I hope that it's the last we see of Rosa for the rest of the season.  The actress is great, but I am not a fan of the character

The cast is very bloated, and Rosa’s story is a detour. 

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6 hours ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

Good call on those who called out who Walt is.  But if he knows that Michael is an alien, I'll be disappointed.I mean, does everyone know that they are aliens?

He got out of that barn somehow, I'm guessing via Louise? So I think he might know about the aliens. And I'm having a hard time how he could look so unsurprised that Michael is Nora's son even though he's only 28 if he wasn't aware of the pods in some form. But yeah, WAYYYYYY too many people know the alien secret at this point. 

I agree that Rosa's story is a detour from the main plot. I was actually irritated every time they cut to her because it was a distraction from trying to get some real alien and/or government conspiracy answers. I hope she gets better at rehab, and then I hope she goes to live in California to be an artist or whatever, lol.

I think Jesse is doing something. I don't think for a minute he actually wanted to shake Max's hand. But I did laugh when he was kind of whining that he failed and Alex just said "Yes" and waited a second to ask about what specifically. 

I wasn't that wild about Charlie, and her weird commentary on seeming to think Liz couldn't be a scientist and still have a boyfriend seemed outdated to say the least, but I'm glad Cameron is okay. 

In terms of Liz and science and her final scene, I wonder if that was indicating she can't really be satisfied with human science now that she's had a taste of what she can do with alien science. 

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It really annoys me how they never allow Alex to have happiness. But Carina's golden boy is able to have happiness with his new relationship. Its like the gay character always suffers. I am sick of it. 

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17 minutes ago, backhometome said:

It really annoys me how they never allow Alex to have happiness. But Carina's golden boy is able to have happiness with his new relationship. Its like the gay character always suffers. I am sick of it. 

It also doesn't...totally track with Alex's history? I feel like they're regressing him. He was in public on a date with Michael in 1x03, fairly defiantly in front of his father, and he asked Michael to be in a real relationship at the end of last season/beginning of this season, but now he can't kiss Forrest in The Wild Pony with his father nowhere around? First Alex, after spending his entire time on the show identifying as gay, acts like he's just now beginning to sort out his sexuality. Now he's back in the closet?

I am so irritated at how isolated Max is from the 1947 plot. It's not like he doesn't care - he wanted more of his childhood memories in the last episode. The show needs to get back to the Pod Squad, not just one scene every other episode.

Also, Noah seemed to have plenty of that pollen, so why is everyone acting like the flower in Maria's necklace is the only one that can ever exist? 

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6 minutes ago, Cristofle said:

It also doesn't...totally track with Alex's history? I feel like they're regressing him

7 minutes ago, Cristofle said:

First Alex, after spending his entire time on the show identifying as gay, acts like he's just now beginning to sort out his sexuality

 

Exactly. Its like Carina is coming up with new ways to make him miserable. All the straight couples got multiple kisses but the gay character continues to be unhappy. 

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I saw her say some weird thing on Twitter about how something was going around the set and that's why Forrest and Alex didn't kiss...but Max and Liz kissed more than once and so did Michael and Maria. She said they weren't the sick ones, but it just seems...convenient that Vlamis, Heather, Nathan, and Jeanine didn't manage to catch whatever was going around onset.

I was looking forward to Forrest because I thought the whole point of him was to allow Alex to have a normal relationship without all the Michael baggage. There are only 13 episodes a season and we've already wasted a couple regressing Alex as if he's just now sort of figuring out that he's gay. 

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3 minutes ago, Cristofle said:

...convenient that Vlamis, Heather, Nathan, and Jeanine didn't manage to catch whatever was going around onset.

Hmm how convenient. She is such a hack. 

I wanted Alex to have a nice healthy relationship. I will be so annoyed if they have him running back to Michael at the smallest hint of gratitude. Or if they make Forrest a baddie. 

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Yeah, it looks like Walt DOES know about aliens and about Michael, because he was nodding to Michael exclaiming that he was the boy in the picture, like he knew what Michael was referring to and I bet that he has a whole lot of answers for Michael and Isobel. Well, if it provides answers on what happened way back when...ok, I'll accept it. Plus, way too big of a coincidence that Michael works with Walt, who knew his mother.

Not a bad episode, per say, but also not entirely interesting. I do like Rosa and I do like her storyline, but it was predictable that something was up with her suddenly making a new friend. It sucks that she couldn't get that dream, but at least she's off to rehab.

Maria...seems to think that she can stop her disease from progressing if she just doesn't go too far. But, per TV show guidelines, she WILL go too far and someone else will have to save her. Again, not necessarily a solely this show problem, since it ALWAYS ALWAYS happens on EVERY TV show when someone declares that they'll be fine. 

Alex/Forrest....was ok. I think part of me is still annoyed that Forrest's actor is besties with Vlamis (I shouldn't be, but there it is); however, I still would rather Alex move on with someone like Forrest, because he desperately needs a fresh start. But something about Tyler Blackburn isn't working for me on this show. Which is a shame because he was my favourite male character on Pretty Little Liars, so it can't be just on him. And I like him in scenes with Michael Trevino so...what's the deal? 

Max meets Charlie! It's the chick from Sense8! Hello! I liked his scenes with the Camerons. Again, Max is certainly a lot better this season when he can actually smile. Last season, he was just so...moody. Max/Liz is also working quite well for me. I'm semi-interested in the person who kidnapped Jenna and then also showed up at the end.

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One thing that I did notice about Rosa is she- sorry to insult her sense of fashion - looked SO MUCH BETTER in this episode, lol, namely without the eyeliner. Amber Midthunder is lovely, and does not wear that eyeliner in life from what I can tell from IG videos and such, so I don't think she's insisting on it. Please, let that eyeliner go. 

I feel like this is the second time they've hinted that Max and Isobel's mom - Anne Evans, that is - is not super happy with her husband. First it was her pretty clearly fake claims of happiness when Max asked how she and their father were, now it was Isobel mentioning she dreams about her ex boyfriend. 

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I didn't see Rosa's whole plot being a drug trip coming, thats certainly concerning. I like Rosa and I think she adds an interesting dynamic to the show and characters, but I feel like she is off in her own world so often, that I almost feel like we are leaving the show sometimes to check in with her. Its all very Meanwhile, but thats kind of been a thing all season, going from one subplot to the next that arent connecting with each other. Meanwhile, at the lab, Meanwhile, at the cave, Meanwhile, at the bar...

I like Forrest, and lord knows Alex could use some normalcy, but they seem to be seriously piling the gay angst on him lately. I know that it makes some sense given his backstory and his awful father, but in the first season, he was kind of over most of his shame about being gay, and most of his issues were more specifically about his terrible dad being terrible and his dysfunctional relationship with Michael, not really about being gay in and of itself. I also feel like Forrest will end up being involved in something shady, and I am so not looking forward to Alex getting his heart stomped on. 

So on the one hand, Maria has powers! On the other, her brain might be breaking down! Apparently for now, Maria wants to focus on the power part, which is admittedly more fun part of the whole issue. 

So the auto-shop guy is the kid from the past? So we will finally get some answers possibly?I guess he also knows about Michael, or maybe he just guessed, or else it would be a pretty big freaking coincidence that the one guy in town who remembers the aliens from the 40s is also employing one of the three aliens that currently live in town, who are also all related. 

Glad that Max found Cameron, but I am not sure what is even going on with her and her sister, and who kidnapped her. So this is the secret government agency that her sister was mixed up in, so why did it look like she was abducted by aliens or something? Do these guys just coincidentally kidnap people in ways that look like an alien abduction, or are they actually aliens that stage their abductions to look like some kind of shady black ops? I dont know if I much care for Charlie, but we might be stuck with her for a bit if she and Max have to fight...whoever keeps shining lights on people.  

In general, I really like Max so much more this season, he seems so much more chill and less angsty. Maybe because Liz knows the whole truth and forgave him? Or maybe he really just really needed a long ass alien goo nap, and woke up much better rested? I like him bartending, it gives him more time to interact with other characters, especially Maria. I really hope that Michael tells Max what is going on with the 40s alien stuff, this effects him too. 

Edited by tennisgurl
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I appreciate the show seems to be giving Maria some more crumbs but they could always do much better when it comes to writing for her. HH always brings it with the little she's given.

That said, I won't applaud RNM for the slight increase cause Maria should have been a tier one character from the beginning of this series and not some glorified day player like she'd been relegated to by Carina (and some fans) for *reasons*.

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This show really works for me, as I have at least some level of affection for everyone in the show. Jenna saying she will need a rape kit really touched me. 

I would like more episodes with all of the characters together, but I realize that is quite a time-consuming and expensive ask. 

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4 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Glad that Max found Cameron, but I am not sure what is even going on with her and her sister, and who kidnapped her. So this is the secret government agency that her sister was mixed up in, so why did it look like she was abducted by aliens or something? Do these guys just coincidentally kidnap people in ways that look like an alien abduction, or are they actually aliens that stage their abductions to look like some kind of shady black ops? I dont know if I much care for Charlie, but we might be stuck with her for a bit if she and Max have to fight...whoever keeps shining lights on people. 

I'm just glad that I'm not the only one who doesn't know what's going on with this B (or is it C or D or E?) plot.

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I’m glad they found Cameron, but what have they injected in her neck? I expected Max to tell Liz about that, and for her to run some experiments. Have they come up with another identity for Rosa- she’s supposed to be dead! She needs ID etc etc, maybe assume the name of someone her age who died in infancy??

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5 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

they found Cameron, but what have they injected in her neck?

The lightning bolt patterns on [Jenna] Cameron's neck looked like what Max did to Noah, but when Max said it looked like a burn, he sounded pretty earnest.

 

 

8 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

Have they come up with another identity for Rosa- she’s supposed to be dead!

They should have introduced her as cousin Rosalinda as soon as Arturo was in the know. Lots of cousins look alike, and with nobody having seen Rosa for 10 years, I doubt the identical resemblance would matter.

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I probably would have come up with a name other than Rosalinda, but other than that, I don't think too many people would question it, especially since Rosa died ten years prior and she's still a kid. And honestly, she DOES look like a different person without the make-up, lol. That said, if Rosa can manage to get into a rehab that sticks, I think she'd be better off living outside of Roswell. 

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I like this show and think its its only worthy show to watch on the CW these days, Its the only one I watch from there, anyway. But its starting to show some cracks, has been for a while actually. 

Like pointed out by others , Rosa's story is a detour to the main plot. I like her, Jenna Cameron too but their stories seem to get too much time, for characters that are supposed to be guest stars/recurring. On top of that, they add Jenna's sister, Charlie. Just what the show needs, more people with their own little plots....

The show established in season 1 that Rosa and Maria where very close but when Rosa comes back, Maria barely is given time to interact with her. This is the person whose grave she has been going to for the past 10 years, every month. The show is dropping the ball also on Maria's friendship with Liz.  Maria is dealing with her new powers, just found out unsettling new information on her family but Liz is nowhere to be found for support. Liz and Alex barely interact either. They feel like lip serviced relationships. 

I was thrown off by the Alex is back in the closet plot, just doesnt seem to track with where his character is now. He has been established as accepting of himself and unashamed about being gay. Just seems like they have rewinded his journey for some drama. 

The episodic cliffhangers aren't as suspenseful and game-changing as they used to be anymore, where are the stakes, who is the big bad this season...8 episodes in and im not really sure what anything is leading to.

The show is still more good than bad, I just hope these cracks dont get bigger leading to a show that becomes unwatchable. They need to work on maintaining internal logic and canon consistences. 

Edited by CabotCove
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@CabotCove I agree with a lot of what you’re saying. This is episode 8 of the season and we are just beginning to get somewhere. This could’ve been episode 4. I don’t think they should’ve kept Max in the pod for more than 3 episodes. 

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5 hours ago, CabotCove said:

The show established in season 1 that Rosa and Maria where very close but when Rosa comes back, Maria barely is given time to interact with her.

I keep forgetting that Maria and Rosa were friends back in the day, why are we not doing anything with that? That would not only be interesting, but would give Rosa something to do thats connected to the story more, and it would better use Maria being in the know now about the alien stuff and everything surrounding it. When Rosa "died" Maria was her peer and friend, but now, likes her sister, Maria is a grown woman while Rosa still remembers her as a teenager, and like with Liz, thats an interesting dynamic to explore. 

Of course, thats also part of the problem with the season so far, everyone is kind of on their own in their own little subplots, and while there is some crossing of characters sometimes (like when Kyle was dealing with brain stuff with Maria and Michael) but no one seems to interact with each other that much outside of their romantic interest, and its weird! This isn't Game of Thrones where all of the characters are spread out over a continent in different groups, everyone is in the same small town! You would think they would just bump into each other naturally going to get gas or something!

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On 5/5/2020 at 2:13 PM, memememe76 said:

Jenna saying she will need a rape kit really touched me. 

That got to me, too. The Jenna actress was great in that scene.

12 hours ago, CabotCove said:

The episodic cliffhangers aren't as suspenseful and game-changing as they used to be anymore, where are the stakes, who is the big bad this season...8 episodes in and im not really sure what anything is leading to.

Really though! I still enjoy the show a lot but seriously what is the point lol. There being no discernible plot would be fine if they were doing something interesting with the characters but they're really not.

As has been said, it is ridiculous that Maria has not interacted with Rosa at all when we were told they were close as teens and that Maria visited her grave regularly for 10 years. Come on! Plus, Liz, Maria, and Alex were supposedly close and yet they never interact anymore. There is too much separateness and not enough interconnectedness between the characters/stories.

I think TB and the Forrest actor have more chem, or at least less awkwardness, between then TB and MV do, but I still don't really give a shit about them lol. And yea, why is Alex suddenly back in the closet so much that he won't kiss a man when they're seemingly alone at a paintball park? I did love the scenes with Alex and his dad though. TB was funny in those.

Speaking of Alex's dad, what the fuck is up with him? There's no way he's just suddenly a good guy. His character has always been so pointless imo because they never really do anything with him.

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1 hour ago, peachmangosteen said:

Speaking of Alex's dad, what the fuck is up with him? There's no way he's just suddenly a good guy. His character has always been so pointless imo because they never really do anything with him.

Yeah, no. He's up to something. He does seem genuinely and creepily attached to Uncle Tripp (I mean, I too get emotional when I think about not being able to see Jason Behr regularly, but come on, dude) but there's no way he was being straight with Max. 

Also, it's a sign that they haven't fleshed out his character that when I see him, I automatically think of the actor's One Life to Live character Frodd (AKA Fraudulent Todd). 

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4 minutes ago, Cristofle said:

(I mean, I too get emotional when I think about not being able to see Jason Behr regularly, but come on, dude)

Yea, that part is understandable at least!

Quote

Also, it's a sign that they haven't fleshed out his character that when I see him, I automatically think of the actor's One Life to Live character Frodd (AKA Fraudulent Todd).

I literally just call him Todd when I talk about the show with my sisters.

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9 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

I literally just call him Todd when I talk about the show with my sisters.

LOL, poor Trevor. He's not a bad actor - he's especially effective at being creepy - but I didn't think of him as Todd when he was supposedly playing Todd (I am a 90s soap baby and Roger Howarth in all his terrifying glory will always be Todd) and now I can barely keep his character's name straight here. I keep expecting Starr to show up so he can throw her down a flight of stairs.

This is really Carina's fault in all seriousness. She hasn't been consistent in building up any sort of tension or urgency on the government conspiracy side. Jesse COULD be a good spoiler in the sense that he seems to have little to no conscience, heh, meaning there is virtually nothing he wouldn't do and that's always a good character to throw the board into chaos. She's just not utilizing him properly, so the only time he's really interesting is when Alex goes all NFTG on him.

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16 minutes ago, Cristofle said:

This is really Carina's fault in all seriousness. She hasn't been consistent in building up any sort of tension or urgency on the government conspiracy side. Jesse COULD be a good spoiler in the sense that he seems to have little to no conscience, heh, meaning there is virtually nothing he wouldn't do and that's always a good character to throw the board into chaos. She's just not utilizing him properly, so the only time he's really interesting is when Alex goes all NFTG on him.

This. Jesse could easily be a big bad because, like you said, he's basically full-on evil plus TSJ is good at playing that. If he was more fleshed out maybe there'd be some urgency in the show.

I call him Todd because he was playing him when I first started watching OLTL but also because I can't remember what his name was on OLTL lol. Was it Victor?

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12 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

call him Todd because he was playing him when I first started watching OLTL but also because I can't remember what his name was on OLTL lol. Was it Victor?

Yep, he turned out to be Todd's brother Victor. I started watching OLTL in 1995, so that was wayyy back when; Roger Howarth didn't stop playing Todd until 2004.

There are emotional connections here too - Jesse abused Alex, he mutilated Michael, he tried to convince Cameron that Max was an evil alien serial killer, he tortured and murdered numerous other aliens who might have had any number of connections to the Pod Squad. Jesse can have an impact on the gang. He's just being wasted. 

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10 hours ago, CabotCove said:

I was thrown off by the Alex is back in the closet plot, just doesnt seem to track with where his character is now. He has been established as accepting of himself and unashamed about being gay. Just seems like they have rewinded his journey for some drama. 

Exactly.  I was like "wait, what?"

Nice that Jesse is admitting his (numerous) faults and crimes regardless if he's pretending or not. I hope that we'll learn more about Jesse when we get (hopefully) more Uncle Trip.   

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All this OLTL talk is making me sad. 😞 

This episode ... was fine? Given that I really don't like Rosa, I expected this to be much worse. I love Madison McLauchlin, so was glad she was on there as Rosa's (possible) drug fueled hallucination. The actress that played Charlie, however, just didn't work for me at all. Her scenes were almost funny - the dialogue did not help. Is Jenna Cameron staying around? I love that actress.

I agree with the comments above about Maria and how the character relationships are not well balanced. Maria is supposed to be Rosa's best friend, so there should be the natural tension between Rosa expecting the friendship to pick up where it left off, and finding out that Maria and Liz are now the tight ones (not that they show us that side, either). I like the story line with her trying to figure out what the deal is with her family, and the interaction with Isobel was good. 

I don't understand the point of the Alex story line. Either give him one or don't, this was a lot of time wasted for "I don't want to hang out in your closet".

All in all I'm not sure what this season is supposed to be about. On one hand, I think a shorter season should help tighten up the season and eliminate a lot of wasted time (think how long Max would have been in the pod if it were a 23 episode season!) but on the other hand, what is it even about? The alien parents I guess? OK. I'm whelmed.

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I call him Todd too! Yeah OLTL! I watched the show during his run and immediately stopped after Evangeline went into a coma but oh the memories...and wait, he turned out to be someone else? Amazing.

So yeah, it really is odd how they've set up the friendships on this show. They've adequately shown the bond between the alien squad but not so much with the humans. OG Roswell did a much better job at showing how close Liz was with Maria and Alex, which I guess is easier to display with a bunch of high schoolers who constantly have to be together? But we're supposed to *believe* that Maria and Rosa are friends and that Maria and Alex are super close when they show us NOTHING and I'm not feeling that AT ALL. Which is partly why I don't buy all the arguments about Maria stabbing her friend in the back...there's no there there.

No interest in the Alex/Forest storyline. Ditto on Cameron and her sister.

I actually missed Kyle and Steph. I really want to know what her deal is!

I'm here for Isobel training Maria and Rosa how to properly use their powers. Here for the visions, here for reading minds, here for the lightbulbs.

Also don't really care if Michael and Maria are MFEO or endgame but they had some touching moments this episode that I really loved. As much as the actor irritates me, he's got palpable chemistry with both of his love interests and I agree with an earlier post: Heather does so much with the little she's given.

All in all though, this season is weird and all over the place.

 

Edited by Heartsparkgirl
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Do I have this right?

Liz tells Max she needs to go cry alone —which, to me, was like: Wha-a-at? —but Max buys it.  
Then we see Liz in her secret Mad Scientist Lair reading the blue folder papers about alien physiology or some such stuff, which Michael told her not to do, but he left the Alien Papers in Liz’s care in the Lair. Michael is a Secret Super Genius too, he just doesn’t have a white lab coat to put on when he turns into that persona.

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4 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Liz tells Max she needs to go cry alone —which, to me, was like: Wha-a-at? —but Max buys it.  

I can see why this wouldn't surprise Max; Liz has been open with him that she has emotional barriers, and a lot of people just want to cry alone sometimes. But if she'd said she wanted to do research on the flower because Noah clearly had access to the pollen so there is more than one in existence and Maria, Rosa, and Mimi should not have to keep passing that necklace back and forth like it's an anti-Horcrux, lol, that also would have been a fair thing to say? Max didn't want her focused on HIM instead of advancing her career; I doubt he would have had any issue if she said it was about Maria and Rosa. I don't even know why there was suddenly a divide between Michael and Liz in this episode re: working on the alien research.

 

Quote

and wait, he turned out to be someone else? Amazing.

 

Yeah, Trevor's initial entry to the Todd character was that he was Todd Manning (originally played by Roger Howarth) with plastic surgery. In true soap fashion, when Howarth returned, they said he was the real Todd and Trevor had been playing his brother Victor all along.

Edited by Cristofle

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On 5/7/2020 at 9:42 AM, Cristofle said:

I can see why this wouldn't surprise Max; Liz has been open with him that she has emotional barriers, and a lot of people just want to cry alone sometimes. But if she'd said she wanted to do research on the flower because Noah clearly had access to the pollen so there is more than one in existence and Maria, Rosa, and Mimi should not have to keep passing that necklace back and forth like it's an anti-Horcrux, lol, that also would have been a fair thing to say? Max didn't want her focused on HIM instead of advancing her career; I doubt he would have had any issue if she said it was about Maria and Rosa. I don't even know why there was suddenly a divide between Michael and Liz in this episode re: working on the alien research.

Okay, so I did understand what's going on. It seems like a soap-opera-style of storytelling. 

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