S03.E20: I Love You

[Koontzie]

On 3/31/2020 at 4:59 AM, Diana Berry said:

I’m so tempted to be done with this show.  So disgusted.

 

please tell me Nicolas Gonzales got some great job offer.

 

 

There's a petition online asking the screenwriters to bring Dr. Melendez back. Please sign it. We actually didn't see him dead: he was in a bad shape and dying, yes, but not dead yet. So there's still hope. Let's not give up. The show is set for failure without Nick Gonzalez anyway. https://www.change.org/p/the-good-doctor-fans-save-melendez-thegooddoctor?lang=en-US

[whydoiwatchtv]

^^That’s what we said. They never pronounced him dead. We’ll see (if there’s a show still).

[Trini]

11 hours ago, DarkHorse said:

Leah also looks much older than Shaun come to think of it. Although she is only two years older as far as the actors go. Maybe Shaun just looks far too young?

Highmore definitely has a babyface.

[ElectricCityy]

I would sign a petition if I felt it would make a difference but sadly, I dont. In fact, the showrunners are probably thinking that by the time the show comes back for another season everyone will be over Melendez. 

[SunnyBeBe]

I hate saying goodbye to this show, but I will. The actor who plays Shaun resembles my real life former doctor in a big way. I’m not kidding. I’ve posted about it before. And the real doctor is substantially older that Freddie. I’m debating about posting the real doctors photo.....not sure. We’ll see.....

[sinkwriter]

21 hours ago, DarkHorse said:

This is where TV fantasy lands fails because in real life most people would not take someone with the bobble head, robot voice and thousand mile stare seriously. In fact they would be quite off putting. 

I agree with you generally, but I also think that's a subjective thing. Because I know people who are super logical / rational / pragmatic thinkers, and they tend to be a little more 'robotic' (a friend of mine used to call her son Spock because that's just how his mind works - super smart but not particularly sociable), so I think if someone like that met Shaun, they'd feel kinship rather than put off by his demeanor. It all depends on the patient.

[bros402]

21 hours ago, DarkHorse said:

I think they needed someone who looked sympathetic, dare I say it "normal" to play Shaun. Someone who would appeal to female audiences perhaps? There is a lot about the character that needs to be offset with other things. 

Leah also looks much older than Shaun come to think of it. Although she is only two years older as far as the actors go. Maybe Shaun just looks far too young?

The way he comes across. Before he can demonstrate any skill he has to convince the person he has that skill/is competent. This is where TV fantasy lands fails because in real life most people would not take someone with the bobble head, robot voice and thousand mile stare seriously. In fact they would be quite off putting. 

It would be like your surgeon walking in and perhaps he/she is the world's best surgeon but you feel they are drunk/depressed/high or get any kind of weird vibe about them I doubt you will let them cut you open. 

Then on a personal level he just doesn't understand social interaction at all. On any level. 

People with autism have normal physical appearances.

The network chose a neurotypical person to play Shaun because that is what the networks do - whenever possible, they avoid representation of people with disabilities. In some cases, it can make sense - in others, it does not make much sense (Like in the cases of shows where they have a character who uses a wheelchair and it is an able-bodied actor - with not even a paper thin reason for it).

I have seen multiple doctors who give off that eccentric vibe. One is one of the best doctors I have ever had - and a lot of people in my state who are familiar with disabilities recognize his name like they would a huge celebrity. However, he was more... social and just eccentric.

I have also seen an oncologist who was more of a Dr. House, without the limp or good writers. I managed to see him for a year and a half before I fired him because my insurance might have changed to one that didn't cover him (Then they ended up covering him, but by then, I was already at the new doctor, oh no, what a tragedy).

The character of Shaun is written inconsistently - with all of the data he has, he should have a base understanding of human behavior (at minimum from his college psychology courses) along with having been graded on bedside manner in med school, and for some of the more difficult things (which, admittedly, are difficult for someone with autism) he has learned and has demonstrated (when it is plot appropriate) socially appropriate behaviors. He has also sought out help for interpreting cues on occasion, but he typically requires prompting in order to ask someone about a social situation.

1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I hate saying goodbye to this show, but I will. The actor who plays Shaun resembles my real life former doctor in a big way. I’m not kidding. I’ve posted about it before. And the real doctor is substantially older that Freddie. I’m debating about posting the real doctors photo.....not sure. We’ll see.....

My neurologist gives me strong Tom Ellis (Lucifer on Lucifer) vibes - it's not like an exact match, but my brain always goes "Huh, he looks like Lucifer."

[Sarnia]

4 hours ago, ElectricCityy said:

I would sign a petition if I felt it would make a difference but sadly, I dont. In fact, the showrunners are probably thinking that by the time the show comes back for another season everyone will be over Melendez. 

By the time it comes back for another season, I will be over the show (I already am, actually. What a waste of a good idea).

[cinsays]

10 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I hate saying goodbye to this show, but I will. The actor who plays Shaun resembles my real life former doctor in a big way. I’m not kidding. I’ve posted about it before. And the real doctor is substantially older that Freddie. I’m debating about posting the real doctors photo.....not sure. We’ll see.....

why would you want to post the read doctor's photo? 

[SunnyBeBe]

1 hour ago, cinsays said:

why would you want to post the read doctor's photo? 

Because, often it's interesting when a person you know in real life, strongly resembles a tv character AND, they have the same profession.  (Both doctors. ) And, both look younger than their years. But, I've decided not to do it.  

[bros402]

4 hours ago, DarkHorse said:

 

I understand you are very personally invested in the topic but I think you are wrong. Not all autistic people look "normal". Some look very different to the rest of us. 

They did need a sympathetic looking actor to play the role, someone who would compensate for what is a very odd and cold character. A bit like giving Dr House a limp and an addiction to pain meds to make up for his grumpiness. 

I do agree that Shawn is written very inconsistently. The way he is written I get the impression he was given a lot of free passes through his life and college because it seems he has little understanding of anything and isn't used to being challenged. 

Are you referring physically, or mannerisms? Yes, some people with autism have similar mannerisms - and sometimes physical manifestations of their anxieties. Mannerisms are easy enough for a doctor to imitate, but there are no physical differences that are part of any diagnosis method of autism.

[possibilities]

Lots of people on the spectrum go unnoticed by bystanders, because they do look the same as anyone else. The general public only notices people who look different, but that doesn't mean those examples represent the majority of people in the category.

My sincere hope is that people will actually educate themselves instead of spewing prejudices and unkind and insulting pronouncements.

It's too bad that TV reinforces misinformation and contributes to this problem, but we should all still make an effort to fact check our fiction, so we don't get more confused and wind up hurting ourselves and others by allowing ourselves to be misled.

 

[mijakatt]

There was a soap opera in1986  "Dallas " where the character Bobby Ewing died in a car crash  and then came back to life a year later because the fans protested ..we did not see Melendez die ,Clair and Lim did not seem that upset , Lim didn't even go back in the room they just walked away  so maybe he will be bought back ,its the stroke of a pen and he's back  anything can happen and its happened before ,I've already disengaged from this series ,it was great in the beginning but this season the quality of the writing has suffered ,Killing one of the most popular stars was not the most intelligent thing to do for the series , it can be undone ,just bring him back ,no big deal ,if you alienate the fans ,rating will fall ,there are other things to watch on tv other than the good doctor ,for now I will focus on New Amsterdam and if the writers of the good doctor come to  their sense ,if they have any , and bring back Nick Gonzales I will happily continue to watch , I was kind of interested in where he and Clair could take their relation ship ,if anywhere  and how would Lim react to that ,not thats gone and we are left with Shaun and Leah and I am not remotely interested in that .. So I guess thats  ,that..

[statsgirl]

I don't have a problem with Highmore playing Shaun, especially since it's a difficult role and requires a skilled actor.

I think the two problems of the show has been inconsistent writing for Shaun (at one point he understands social skills and at another he has no knowledge of them), and the decision to make Shaun the show's romantic hero.  I suspect the latter also was a reason for killing off Melendez.

[bros402]

9 hours ago, statsgirl said:

I don't have a problem with Highmore playing Shaun, especially since it's a difficult role and requires a skilled actor.

I think the two problems of the show has been inconsistent writing for Shaun (at one point he understands social skills and at another he has no knowledge of them), and the decision to make Shaun the show's romantic hero.  I suspect the latter also was a reason for killing off Melendez.

Yeah, Highmore is good at Shaun - the writers are the ones at fault here. I have actually liked some of Shaun's portrayals of overstimulation and his stimming behaviors.

I don't understand the sudden thrusting of Shaun into a romantic role, either - I mean, it is good that they aren't going with the "asexual disabled character" trope - but it was rather... sudden. It would've been much better if they had had Shaun get in a few casual relationships, so he could get his bearings in the world of relationships.

[rmontro]

On 4/9/2020 at 3:57 PM, mijakatt said:

There was a soap opera in1986  "Dallas " where the character Bobby Ewing died in a car crash  and then came back to life a year later because the fans protested ..we did not see Melendez die ,Clair and Lim did not seem that upset , Lim didn't even go back in the room they just walked away  so maybe he will be bought back

How about this:  The entire episode was a dream that Lea had after she slipped into unconsciousness from the building collapsing on her.  Season four opens with Shaun, Melendez, and the others attending Lea's funeral.

Too mean?

[SunnyBeBe]

3 hours ago, rmontro said:

How about this:  The entire episode was a dream that Lea had after she slipped into unconsciousness from the building collapsing on her.  Season four opens with Shaun, Melendez, and the others attending Lea's funeral.

Too mean?

Hey, that’s no crazier than what we did get!

[Bobcatkitten]

I honestly didn't know for sure he died until everyone in here said he did. And the things the actor was tweeting. I wouldn't have known that for sure. If so that "let's go get a drink" thing was so weird.

[Meowwww]

On 4/10/2020 at 8:29 PM, rmontro said:

How about this:  The entire episode was a dream that Lea had after she slipped into unconsciousness from the building collapsing on her.  Season four opens with Shaun, Melendez, and the others attending Lea's funeral.

Too mean?

Who shot JR.   

[topanga]

On 4/10/2020 at 9:29 PM, rmontro said:

How about this:  The entire episode was a dream that Lea had after she slipped into unconsciousness from the building collapsing on her.  Season four opens with Shaun, Melendez, and the others attending Lea's funeral.

Too mean?

Nope. Too perfect. 

Edited April 15, 2020 by topanga

[Virtual]

I'm very concerned now that Shaun will begin to think he will get what he wants if he raises enough hell. Last season, even though he initially didn't get his job back after the office meltdown, he got it back some time later. The same deal just happened with Lea. If so, I hope it won't be an aspect we will have to deal with for all of next season.

I actually think the show had guts in killing off one of the main characters after the show had been established. Bates Motel shied away from it until it HAD to happen for story timeline reasons or because they were at the finale episode, and a lot of the characters killed off in that show were one-off appearances or characters who didn't appear often.

[WinJet0819]

On 4/30/2020 at 10:18 AM, Zenlethic said:

I'm very concerned now that Shaun will begin to think he will get what he wants if he raises enough hell. Last season, even though he initially didn't get his job back after the office meltdown, he got it back some time later. The same deal just happened with Lea. If so, I hope it won't be an aspect we will have to deal with for all of next season.

I do wonder if Shaun would have honored the promise to Vera if she had died, as we know how regimented he is?

Though had there been no earthquake, I think he might have eventually forced himself to move on. When he was telling Vera why he couldn't move on, it wasn't because he wanted to keep trying with Lea. It was the fact he was scared he'd stop growing as the person he'd become with Lea in his life.

[topanga]

On 4/30/2020 at 11:18 AM, Zenlethic said:

I actually think the show had guts in killing off one of the main characters after the show had been established. Bates Motel shied away from it until it HAD to happen for story timeline reasons or because they were at the finale episode, and a lot of the characters killed off in that show were one-off appearances or characters who didn't appear often.

I agree that it took guts. But it seemed out of left field--it didn't fit the narrative of the show, IMO. Which made it jarring and unsatisfying for me. Glassman almost died from cancer... but he's still hanging around doing nothing except when the writers can think of a somewhat plausible story line for him. Lim almost died, but she didn't -- I would've been sad and would have missed her character if she'd died, but story-wise, her death made sense. Leah was trapped underground after an earthquake...but she didn't die. *sigh* Melendez, on the other hand, was healthy and had become one of the most visible characters in the main cast who was involved with almost every major story. Writers can kill any character they want, of course--this show isn't fan fiction.  But it wasn't like the writers couldn't think of anything to do with Melendez. They were doing plenty with him every week.  

[statsgirl]

6 hours ago, WinJet0819 said:

Though had there been no earthquake, I think he might have eventually forced himself to move on. When he was telling Vera why he couldn't move on, it wasn't because he wanted to keep trying with Lea. It was the fact he was scared he'd stop growing as the person he'd become with Lea in his life.

This is exactly why he should have honoured his promise to Vera -- his belief in his own growth is now tied to being with Lea and now that he is with her, he's going to be even more afraid to move away from her.

Then later, when he is secure in himself and his ability to grow, he could get together with Lea if he wanted. The way they got together now reminds me of the line from Speed "I have to warn you, I've heard relationships based on intense experiences never work."

 

[possibilities]

On 4/7/2020 at 3:21 AM, DarkHorse said:

in real life most people would not take someone with the bobble head, robot voice and thousand mile stare seriously. In fact they would be quite off putting. 

That's their problem. It's like saying we shouldn't have women surgeons because "people" won't take them seriously, or we should not allow Black people to be doctors because racists won't be comfortable. A person can be as much of an ignoramus and/or bigot as they want, but others don't have to go along with it.