S05.E04: Company We Keep

[Athena]

Quote

Roger leads Jamie's militia to a trading post and finds himself embroiled in a bitter feud.

Reminder: The is the book talk thread. This can include spoilers for ALL the books. If you wish to remain unspoiled for any of the books, please leave now and head to the No Book Talk episode thread.

[DietCokeJunkie]

Would people in the 18th century really have been so accepting of a mulatto baby? It surprised me when the daughter agreed to nurse the baby and then when they wanted to raise it. Did it happen the same way in the book? I don’t recall. 

[cardigirl]

AS fierce as Marsali may be, did they really leave them all alone on the Ridge?

[Quickbeam]

Rankin does such a good job as Roger. I never really liked the book character but Rankin makes it work for me. He tried! 

[WatchrTina]

THE GOOD

Well, we finally found out why they went to such pains to introduce us to “Morton” in the first episode. (I couldn’t understand it back when I commented on that episode.)

And can we get a round of applause for the stuntman who played Morton’s tumble right of the back of his horse? (Because I really cannot see how he did not break is neck.)

There was so much subtext in Jamie’s yearning look at the baby (followed by out-and-out “text” as Jamie & Claire discussed Jamie’s having missed the opportunity to raise a child.)

I love that they paid off the fact that Fergus accidentally sent the newspaper a copy of Claire’s “Doctor Rawlins Advice” column.  And I’m VERY curious to know where that plot point will lead since it’s off-book.  Also I’m having a weird feeling of déjà vu because someone did that to me while I was in graduate school.  I posted a flyer on the school bulletin board complaining about something stupid the school was doing and the “editor” of a crummy, self-published school “newspaper” reprinted it as if I had written it as a letter to the editor (him).  Wanker.

I love Marsali for helping Brianna.

The conflict between King-of-Men Jamie and his somewhat inept, Fish-Out-Of-Water son-in-law Roger continues to rings true.

 

THE BAD

Yo, Bonnet!  Do not give coins to infants!  It’s a choking hazard!  (As if we didn’t despise the man enough before.)

 

THE UGLY

Ugh, that feeling of panic when Brianna saw that the baby wasn’t where she left him.  Nicely done depiction of how Bonnet continues to haunt Brianna but still . . . what an ugly sensation.

 

UNANSWERED QUESTIONS 

Am I right that the set they used for that VERY nice bedroom that was offered to Jamie and Claire is essentially the same set they used for the wedding night scene from season one (and also Geillis Duncan’s attic workroom)?  The rafter struts are distinctive.  Then again – that mode of construction was probably common so maybe I’m just seeing a reasonable similarity.  In any case that bedroom (like the wedding night bedroom) seems HUGE given that it was available to be offered to Claire.  Does it seem reasonable that anyone in “Brownsville” would have that kind of guest room?

 

OTHER

On 3/8/2020 at 12:45 AM, DietCokeJunkie said:

Would people in the 18th century really have been so accepting of a mulatto baby? It surprised me when the daughter agreed to nurse the baby and then when they wanted to raise it. Did it happen the same way in the book? I don’t recall. 

My recollection is that the baby's inheritance (that trading post) meant that when the time came she would likely have many interested suitors despite being mixed race.  In the the meantime the Browns would run the trading post -- and profit from it -- in her name.  That inherited wealth -- coupled with back-woods pragmatism (you need to stick together with your neighbors when there are so few of them and a big, untamed wilderness surrounding you) -- were sufficient (in Claire's judgement) to ensure that the baby would be welcomed into the community.  I also recall that Jamie made it clear he'd be checking in on the baby's welfare from time to time and Jamie -- a wealthy landowner and head of the local militia -- is not someone they would want to cross.

 

On 3/8/2020 at 11:10 AM, cardigirl said:

AS fierce as Marsali may be, did they really leave them all alone on the Ridge?

Remember that they are out in the middle of nowhere.  If someone was up to no good it would be difficult for them to even FIND the place.  And while most of the men have left, a few older men stayed behind (Arch Bug stayed, right?) and some teenage boys are there (the 14-year-old Beardsley twins are being sent home because of their age as well as their health problems.)  Furthermore, the women left behind are formidable (including Mrs. Bug) and virtually all can handle weapons (including Brianna.)  Remember too that all the children were left behind and there is no animal more dangerous than a mother protecting her young.

 

Edited March 11, 2020 by WatchrTina

[cardigirl]

1 hour ago, WatchrTina said:

Remember that they are out in the middle of nowhere.  If someone was up to no good it would be difficult for them to even FIND the place.  And while most of the men have left, a few older men stayed behind (Arch Bug stayed, right?) and some teenage boys are there (the 14-year-old Beardsley twins are being sent home because of their age as well as their health problems.)  Furthermore, the women left behind are formidable (including Mrs. Bug) and virtually all can handle weapons (including Brianna.)  Remember too that all the children were left behind and there is no animal more dangerous than a mother protecting her young.

 

Those are pretty good points, but I'm still surprised that we didn't see more people then the Bugs around. Jamie didn't take everybody, I  hope.  He's smarter than that.  And unfortunately, bad guy Bonnet is not easily handled.   

I guess we will see.  It looks like Claire makes it back to the Ridge next week at any rate. 

[WatchrTina]

1 hour ago, cardigirl said:

I'm still surprised that we didn't see more people then the Bugs around. Jamie didn't take everybody, I  hope. 

I just watched a second time and there are at least three men helping unload the wagon when Brianna & Mrs. Bug get back to the Ridge after going shopping.  Two have grey hair but at least one (the one wrangling the horses) does not.  So there are definitely SOME able-bodied men left on the Ridge.

[nodorothyparker]

Man, they were really hammering the one true love 4eva ideal in this one, weren't they?  Enough so that everyone else in the room just kind of shrugged with well, bigamy it is then or you run off together and your child is a bastard without any sort of legal protection and it's Alicia who's branded a whore forever.  All because a couple of parallels hit uncomfortably close to home to their own situations, but don't think too hard about it because look, pretty horses running free at the end.  I was a little surprised by how straight that was all played and that Claire for once had absolutely nothing to say about the social or gender politics of that.  But again, pretty horses and Twu Luv.

I was getting a tremendous kick out of Roger just talking and talking and talking about historical origins of things at Jamie to try to explain where he was getting some of his ideas and Jamie side-eyeing him at the point that he was going on about World War I, like you do realize that Claire, who was married to an honest to goodness historian and still managed to retain almost nothing useful, is my sole source of information for anything that isn't current events to me, right?  But otherwise it was kind of rough watching Roger stumble about trying to do what he thought would cause the least harm and getting no end of shit for it. Jamie definitely has his misgivings but at least redeemed himself on that point in the end though by acknowledging that he'd dropped the ball in leaving Roger to fend for himself before he was ready.  You do have to wonder what Fergus thinks of Jamie's strangely incompetent son-in-law being left in charge and making such a hash of it.

I love love love Marsali's stepped up role.  The actress is just so good and the character was great in understanding where Bree's head was at.

It did feel a little like the show was completely glossing over the issues with the baby being mixed race or that the Browns were fully aware of who Mr. Beardsley was and that she was his legal heir to his property and inventory as an Indian trader when they offered to take her.  It's nice, I guess, that the show wanted to portray the situation as just one of love for a child, but it felt kind of whitewashed that there wasn't at least a line or two about those realities.

[Cdh20]

2 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

Man, they were really hammering the one true love 4eva ideal in this one, weren't they?  Enough so that everyone else in the room just kind of shrugged with well, bigamy it is then or you run off together and your child is a bastard without any sort of legal protection and it's Alicia who's branded a whore forever.  All because a couple of parallels hit uncomfortably close to home to their own situations, but don't think too hard about it because look, pretty horses running free at the end.  I was a little surprised by how straight that was all played and that Claire for once had absolutely nothing to say about the social or gender politics of that.  But again, pretty horses and Twu Luv.

I was getting a tremendous kick out of Roger just talking and talking and talking about historical origins of things at Jamie to try to explain where he was getting some of his ideas and Jamie side-eyeing him at the point that he was going on about World War I, like you do realize that Claire, who was married to an honest to goodness historian and still managed to retain almost nothing useful, is my sole source of information for anything that isn't current events to me, right?  But otherwise it was kind of rough watching Roger stumble about trying to do what he thought would cause the least harm and getting no end of shit for it. Jamie definitely has his misgivings but at least redeemed himself on that point in the end though by acknowledging that he'd dropped the ball in leaving Roger to fend for himself before he was ready.  You do have to wonder what Fergus thinks of Jamie's strangely incompetent son-in-law being left in charge and making such a hash of it.

I love love love Marsali's stepped up role.  The actress is just so good and the character was great in understanding where Bree's head was at.

It did feel a little like the show was completely glossing over the issues with the baby being mixed race or that the Browns were fully aware of who Mr. Beardsley was and that she was his legal heir to his property and inventory as an Indian trader when they offered to take her.  It's nice, I guess, that the show wanted to portray the situation as just one of love a for child, but it felt kind of whitewashed that there wasn't at least a line or two about those realities.

I kinda loved that Morton used the true love/soulmates thing on Jamie, Claire & Roger-who are they to argue?? I am sure lots of people rolled their eyes though! 

[Biggie B]

2 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

Man, they were really hammering the one true love 4eva ideal in this one, weren't they? 

Indeed. I was a bit bored by this episode. I really did not care about the star-crossed lovers. Not that I wanted that young man to be killed, or for the young woman to kill herself, but...I just did not feel invested in their story. I guess it once again showed how brutal life could be in that era, but that isn't exactly a newsflash at this point. We get it - people live very hard, die young, and it's often survival of the fittest. That said, I did appreciate seeing how "Brownsville" was really nothing more than a muddy path lined with hodgepodge shacks and tents - the precursor to an actual town of sorts - I found that really interesting. Even the scenes with Roger singing and Jamie dancing truly demonstrated how little these people had and how even something as simple as a song brought pleasure and a temporary respite from the grueling day to day struggle to merely survive. How fortunate that Roger knew the lyrics and music to these songs that are hundreds of years old to him. Did he quickly learn them in the short time he's been in that world, or did he know them from having studied them in the 20th century?

[nodorothyparker]

It was alluded to in the episode where Roger and Bree go to a Scottish festival last season that Roger as a historian has also long been something of an amateur bard and busker at these things and thus would have been familiar with more of their music than the average bear.  Book Roger was always seeking period music out.

[GHScorpiosRule]

2 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

Man, they were really hammering the one true love 4eva ideal in this one, weren't they?  Enough so that everyone else in the room just kind of shrugged with well, bigamy it is then or you run off together and your child is a bastard without any sort of legal protection and it's Alicia who's branded a whore forever. 

They REALLY were. And if we're going to get technical, okay, not we, because I don't want to speak for everyone, but I am going to get technical and point out that Claire wasn't a bigamist. Claire wasn't, because one, Frank wasn't even BORN yet, when she fell in love with and married Jamie. (LALALALALALA!!! Time travel timeywhimey); and Jamie wasn't either, because how many years passed before he married hosebeast? And by law, if Claire was considered "dead" then he wasna a bigamist.

So Morton, who I don't give ANY FIGGEDITY BLUEDILLY FUCKS ABOOT, can just take a gazillion million trillion SEATS.

And Roger isn't a bigamist, either.

What an UTTER SNOOZEFEST. And no, those few and far in between scenes with Jamie and Claire, just weren't enough.

I truly thought with both Sam and Cait as producers this season, I'd get MORE OF THEM. I don't CARE about anyone else. Just don't.

[SassAndSnacks]

1. @WatchrTina - I'm so glad to see your commentary this week.  I always looks forward to reading it and missed it last week.  Thanks for your thoughts!

2. I DID like this episode.  That scene in the woods with Jamie and Claire was exactly what I'd hoped for, and for those people saying these two don't have chemistry anymore, Pfft...did you see that scene?  That forehead touch...  They still have it.

50 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

They REALLY were. And if we're going to get technical, okay, not we, because I don't want to speak for everyone, but I am going to get technical and point out that Claire wasn't a bigamist. Claire wasn't, because one, Frank wasn't even BORN yet, when she fell in love with and married Jamie. (LALALALALALA!!! Time travel timeywhimey); and Jamie wasn't either, because how many years passed before he married hosebeast? And by law, if Claire was considered "dead" then he wasna a bigamist.

So Morton, who I don't give ANY FIGGEDITY BLUEDILLY FUCKS ABOOT, can just take a gazillion million trillion SEATS.

3. SO THIS!  I feel like we're supposed to care about Morton, but then make me care about him.  His random lines over the past few weeks don't make me care about him.  He was a random dude in the books, too, but in the books, you can skip over his parts.  Harder to do that while watching.  So make me care.  

4. So so so many breadcrumbs and foreshadowing in this episode.  I suspect the playing up of Morton and Alicia is important to how the show will incorporate what happens later

Spoiler

with Claire and the Browns. Lots of lingering looks from the Browns at her, the shot of her that's used in the credits with her backed turned to the audience, head Brown asking her what kind of man he would be if he let a woman sleep outside, Claire telling Roger she is the most important thing to Jamie, the glares at Jamie, and so on. 

I think they will re-frame the future situation to be more about revenge on Jamie for the Morton situation and using Claire to do it, instead of how it came about in the book. You can tell they didn't buy his whole goat story.

(I tried to be obtuse enough to not be totally spoilery but decided to use the tags anyway.) 

5. Anyone else mentally pronounce Alicia's name incorrectly.  I always said it as Ah-lee-sha.  But then I also had Marsali wrong, too.  

6. Speaking of Marsali.  Love this actress, love her scenes.  Keep them coming!

[Cdh20]

These 2 episodes have had a lot of Jamie & Claire (played perfectly imo) , but I also liked the snippets of Marsali & Bree, & Roger & Fergus-all the in-law bonding! Obviously we are being introduced to many new characters, & I assume they all might play a role later on (in this season or next?) Doesn't anyone remember when they couldn't keep Rupert & Angus straight because they were new? Maybe we will come to care about some of these people? 

[iMonrey]

I've had about enough of Roger singing, thank you very much. Nothing against Richard Rankin, he has a nice enough voice, but it's starting to feel gimmicky having him sing all the time. I cringed at Jamie's dance number too. You could tell Sam Heughan was very carefully framed so you couldn't tell if that was really him doing the steps or not.

I'm annoyed Brianna didn't tell Marsali or Lizzie she knows Bonnet is still alive. I can't think of any reason she should keep this to herself, and warning others to be on the lookout for him might be prudent, y'know? Especially after she ran around like a crazy person saying "He took him!" when she thought Jemmy was missing. They have to be wondering who the heck she was talking about. I'm also annoyed nobody pressed her harder on this.

[GHScorpiosRule]

2 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

They have to be wondering who the heck she was talking about. I'm also annoyed nobody pressed her harder on this.

It's to show how BRAVEANDSTRONGSHEIS, don'tchaknow?😒

[Sew Sumi]

13 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I've had about enough of Roger singing, thank you very much. Nothing against Richard Rankin, he has a nice enough voice, but it's starting to feel gimmicky having him sing all the time. I cringed at Jamie's dance number too. You could tell Sam Heughan was very carefully framed so you couldn't tell if that was really him doing the steps or not.

I'm annoyed Brianna didn't tell Marsali or Lizzie she knows Bonnet is still alive. I can't think of any reason she should keep this to herself, and warning others to be on the lookout for him might be prudent, y'know? Especially after she ran around like a crazy person saying "He took him!" when she thought Jemmy was missing. They have to be wondering who the heck she was talking about. I'm also annoyed nobody pressed her harder on this.

I assume you have not read the books. But since you're in the book thread, it's safe to reveal that Roger's singing later becomes an integral plot point. 

[Ziggy]

On 3/8/2020 at 12:45 AM, DietCokeJunkie said:

Would people in the 18th century really have been so accepting of a mulatto baby? It surprised me when the daughter agreed to nurse the baby and then when they wanted to raise it. Did it happen the same way in the book? I don’t recall. 

In the book the baby had white skin, as the darker pigmentation usually shows up later.  The baby did have some time of birth mark at the base of her spine that is common in mixed race babies.  Jamie saw it and thought it was a bruise, but Claire recognized it.

Anyway, I'm not sure it was known to the Brown family that she (the baby) was half black.  Also, the girl would inherit the Beardsley property, so Jamie thought that was one of the reasons the Browns were so willing to take her.

The way it played out in this episode did seem idealic and not at all how I would think people of that time would reiact during that time.  But I thought I read/heard somewhere that isolated communities in those times were somewhat accepting of blacks, so, maybe?

[Ziggy]

19 hours ago, iMonrey said:

 I cringed at Jamie's dance number too. You could tell Sam Heughan was very carefully framed so you couldn't tell if that was really him doing the steps or not.

I was pretty bummed by this part.  Didn't quite live up to what I imagined from the book, but maybe that was asking just a bit too much.

[anamika]

Jamie and Claire's exasperated expressions when Morton and Alicia were being all lovey dovey with each other was the best part of that plot. Alicia being all 'I am with child, my life is over, I want to die' a few seconds earlier and then being all joyful about the child with Morton - and the camera pans to Jamie's confused wtf expression lol. Sam Heughan needs to do more comedy. 

The continued clash of ideas and temperament between Jamie and Roger is great. Fergus was a nice supportive brother for Roger.

I agree that Bree not telling anyone about Bonnet is that annoying unnecessary secret kept for plot reasons. I am not sure I see the problem with her telling at least Marsali. In fact his picture should be distributed and everyone at Fraser's Ridge should be told that he is out and about so that people can be on their guard.

[Eureka]

8 hours ago, anamika said:

 

I agree that Bree not telling anyone about Bonnet is that annoying unnecessary secret kept for plot reasons.

Bree always bugged me in the book, did not like her. So annoying without even a plot reason makes sense to me. 😉