S01.E05: Stardust City Rag

[starri]

If anyone follows Michael Chabon on Instagram, he answers fan questions one or two days a week.  Not sure if this is a spoiler, but I'll tag anyway.

Spoiler

Those of use that read sexual tension between Seven and Bjayzl were correct.

 

[marinw]

FWIW I love the title of this episode.

[summitsw]

Eh, I’m still unconvinced about this show, the pilot was intriguing, the next three were slow, this one was mostly ridiculous, only Seven’s subplot was interesting. I loved any scene with her, but everything else was meh. The only upside was there was none of the Soji side plot. 

I didn’t even watch Voyager but I’d rather watch a show about Seven being a Ranger than Picard wandering aimlessly around the universe trying to save the less interesting twin.  🤷🏻‍♀️

[marina to]

@Florinaldo, thanks for the link to the Canadian vids. I've been going nuts trying to find them!

[Sandman]

So, the elevator pitch for Star Trek: Picard was probably "Imagine TNG, if everyone in it were completely bugfuck crazy," right?

[Tyro49]

On 2/25/2020 at 7:16 PM, dwmarch said:

I have been watching Youtube reviews by The Critical Drinker (thus far he hates the show) and he uses a lot of promo footage in his reviews. A moment flashed by that addressed this. I'll spoiler code it because it hasn't come up yet.

  Reveal spoiler

There is a half-second long shot of Jurati getting grabbed about the face by Commodore Oh in what I can only assume is a forced mind-meld. We know from Enterprise (and probably other sources but "In A Mirror Darkly" was a great example) that people can be compelled to do things they wouldn't otherwise do when under the influence of a mind meld, even if they didn't go into it willingly.

This moment also answers whether Oh is Vulcan or Romulan unless this show wishes to establish Romulans with Vulcan psy-talents, which they certainly could do. I mean, they've already given us Irish Romulans so why not? Cheeky feckers.

 

I have also thought that Agnes has been under some sort of mind control since her encounter with the Admiral. She was crying because she did love Maddox but could not stop herself from killing him because of the compulsion she was under. What is she "programmed" to do when she meets Soji, I wonder?

[mledawn]

On 2/20/2020 at 9:56 PM, Prower said:

Also great job, Seven, resorting to murdering your 'son' instead of disabling whatever was preventing beaming and getting him out of there. Or grabbing some of the medical equipment lying around and healing him.

I thought he literally asked her to end his life - she tried to take him, she was pulling him off the table. He tells her no.
 

[Prower]

12 hours ago, mledawn said:

I thought he literally asked her to end his life - she tried to take him, she was pulling him off the table. He tells her no.

So?

On 2/22/2020 at 5:07 AM, dwmarch said:

When Picard was Locutus the Borg had full access to all of his knowledge of Starfleet technology and tactics. Locutus destroyed 39 Starfleet ships and killed 11,000 of Picard's fellow officers.

And? I already said that the experience obviously traumatised him. But how would he have lost his humanity? Annika struggled with her humanity because she was assimilated as a little child and spent half her life in the collective. Picard was in it for an hour.

Trying to say that both were the same is extremely stupid writing.

Edited March 30, 2020 by Prower

[mledawn]

11 hours ago, Prower said:

So?

So? So that's not murder.

[Llywela]

12 hours ago, Prower said:

And? I already said that the experience obviously traumatised him. But how would he have lost his humanity? Annika struggled with her humanity because she was assimilated as a little child and spent half her life in the collective. Picard was in it for an hour.

Trying to say that both were the same is extremely stupid writing.

That's like saying someone who gets raped in a back alley quickie shouldn't complain because at least they didn't have it as bad as someone who got kidnapped and abused for days. Comparing one trauma to another is not helpful. Trauma is trauma. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

14 hours ago, Prower said:

So?

And? I already said that the experience obviously traumatised him. But how would he have lost his humanity? Annika struggled with her humanity because she was assimilated as a little child and spent half her life in the collective. Picard was in it for an hour.

Trying to say that both were the same is extremely stupid writing.

This played out a little in TNG and First Contact.

Imagine, if you will, that you were mesmerized into participating in one of history's greatest massacres. 11,000 people died, specifically because of knowledge and assistance you provided against your will. That your individuality had been suppressed and you were made to be part of some larger whole. That it was largely luck that the death toll wasn't greater.

Yes, intellectually, you know it's not your fault. But emotionally, part of you will always wonder why couldn't you be stronger, fought harder? How did they take what makes you you and break it down? What was it like to have those memories, however detailed, of everything that you were forced to do to murder thousands on thousands of innocents?

That has to be something that would haunt you, I would think, no matter how much you realize you were not in control.

There are arguments, I suppose, to be made that 20+ years of being Borg is a greater violation of one's humanity, versus being responsible for Wolf 459. If I would say which I would rather happen to me, I probably would prefer being assimilated at a young age and not really knowing the meaning of my humanity (plus not having personal responsibility for any of the Borg's actions) versus being assimilated as an adult and knowing that I was too weak to stop them and having the guilt over my personal connection to it. But YMMV.

Edited March 30, 2020 by Chicago Redshirt

[Emily Thrace]

On 2/23/2020 at 10:06 PM, tennisgurl said:

I know that Patrick Stewart said that one of the reasons he used a classy British accent to play the very French Picard was because he said his French accent sounded silly, but I had no clue how right he was!

Very interesting mix of camp and some intense darkness, especially connected to our old pal, Seven of Nine! Despite having never been on screen together, Seven and Picard had great on screen chemistry, so much that I was sad to see her go after just one episode, as I hoped she would stick around for a longer arc. Hope to see her again, I feel like they have a lot more to talk about, with the mutual history with the Borg. I really want to know what happened with Seven in-between now and the end of Voyager and if we will check in with anyone else. What happened between Seven and Chakotay? Are Tom and Torres still together? Did Harry Kim ever move up from being an ensign? Did Neelix ever get arrested for a mass food poisoning incident? inquiring minds want to know! Poor Icheb, what a said ending for his character. That really was nasty as fuck, I had to turn away when they were yanking his eye out. I know that Trek has had violence before, but damn guys! I get why Seven wanted revenge, and why Picard wanted Seven not to kill her, but...there had to be some other option beyond killing and leaving her alone to be evil and torture and kill more people. 

I wonder if some of the anger Raffi's son feels for his mom is because so many of her conspiracy's involve Romulans being behind stuff is that he has a Romulan wife and feels like the "BUT ROMULANS!" attitude would make her life harder? Obviously thats not what started their estrangement, but it probably didnt make him any more excited to welcome her back into his life again. 

 

On 2/24/2020 at 7:30 AM, marinw said:

That and the fact the Eureopeans French peopleoften learn to speak English from the British, so they speak English with a Brtish Accent.

I also suspect in Stewart's case part of his issue with a French accent is that his usual posh Brit is actually faked. Stewart grew up in rural Yorkshire speaking full Yorkshire dialect, he deliberately adopted his current more neutral British accent in drama school. I imagine adding another layer of accent to that would be difficult.

Its partly just this story reminding me of him but is Rios reminding anyone else of Tom Paris? Some of it is just that they are cut from the same pile of rogueish pilot tropes but there also seems to be a certain similar layering going on there.

[Llywela]

7 hours ago, Emily Thrace said:

Its partly just this story reminding me of him but is Rios reminding anyone else of Tom Paris? Some of it is just that they are cut from the same pile of rogueish pilot tropes but there also seems to be a certain similar layering going on there.

I don't see it, no. There isn't much 'roguish' about Rios at all, really - they are very different personalities. Paris was sociable and outgoing, something of a womaniser before settling down, enjoyed role playing holonovels with friends and hanging out in bars. Rios is quiet and introverted, prefers his own company and spends his downtime reading philosophical works (and when Agnes makes her pass at him, he stumbles, barely knows how to even attempt to flirt back). There really is very little of the 'roguish pilot' trope about Rios at all, beyond the fact of his owning a small freighter. He falls more into the mold of the Starfleet XO - which figures, because that's what he was, before his career crashed and burned.

Heck, in this episode, his idea of acting flamboyantly is to ask for a second umbrella in his drink and then bop awkwardly along to the music! Which is the kind of thing that happens when you ask an introvert to behave like an extrovert. (Paris would have had a much easier time of pulling off that cover, because his personality is more flamboyant to begin with).

Edited April 25, 2020 by Llywela

[blueray]

How dare they kill Echib he was one of the best characters from Voyager. I also feel like she could have easily saved him. And I did like when she killed that bitch (who really looked like Dianna Troi). I was hoping it would be, as that would have been an interesting twist but I quickly realized she wasn't as she would have reacted to Picard and his horrible accent. Definitely by far the best part of the episode was when Seven went badass and killed all the people. Including that annoying Star Wars lizard guy. As much as I want to like the scene between Seven and Picard. His experience can't compare to hers with the borg. Sure it was horrible and people died but Seven lost her childhood because of them.  I hope and don't think this will be the last of Seven. She clearly had a plan and including an exit strategy when she killed her. I honestly wish we could just watch a show about Seven she is way more interesting then any of the other stuff.

I realized I couldn't careless about any of the other characters. I didn't even notice that what's her face went back on the ship. I don't care about her relationship with her son. I honest fastfoward their conversation as it was boring. I was spoiled about Agnes (?) killing the doctor, and honestly still didn't really care.

I feel at this point I'm just watching the show to say that I did. So sorry for being so negative but this could have been way better than it is.  Well at least we have the 90 shows still.

[Affogato]

On 3/30/2020 at 12:08 AM, Prower said:

So?

And? I already said that the experience obviously traumatised him. But how would he have lost his humanity? Annika struggled with her humanity because she was assimilated as a little child and spent half her life in the collective. Picard was in it for an hour.

Trying to say that both were the same is extremely stupid writing.

Picard was a good leader of men and a good mentor and he said what Seven needed to hear from him. Good writing. And Picard, devoted to the Federation, being used against it would be dehumanizing. It would be hard to come back from. 

[rmontro]

It's hard to believe, but I think Jeri Ryan might look better now than she did back when she was on Voyager.