S15.E09 The Trap

[SueB]

SUPERNATURAL
“The Trap” — (8:00-9:00 p.m. ET) (TV-14, LV) (HDTV)

AS GOD IS MY WITNESS – Sam (Jared Padalecki) and Eileen (guest star Shoshanna Stern) are faced with the brutal truth. Meanwhile Dean (Jensen Ackles) and Cass (Misha Collins) work together in the hopes of getting a step ahead of Chuck (Guest Star Rob Benedict). Robert Singer directed the episode written by Robert Berens (#1509). Original Airdate 1/16/2020.
 

Source:

CW

Edited January 17, 2020 by SueB

[ILoveReading]

I hated everything about this but damn Jensen Ackles can bring it.

[gonzosgirrl]

Meh.

I just want to know when Jared turned into William Shatner.

I hope that was Berens last episode, because oh boy.

The best part was Dean taking a punch from God, then standing up and telling him to GTFO his planet.

[Myrelle]

7 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

I hated everything about this but damn Jensen Ackles can bring it.

 IMO, Berens tried, but Jensen won.

Man can he Act! or what?!!

 

Edited January 17, 2020 by Myrelle
exclamation points necessary

[BoxManLocke]

The last 30 seconds. That's all the episode had going for it, in terms of moving things along, if we can even call it that.

 

That's actually all that the first 9 episodes were about. Stalling. Because fucking nothing happened. We're back where we were in the last 30 seconds of last year's finale. But then again we knew this would happen as soon as they didn't bring Jack back in the premiere.

 

11 episodes left now to decently close out 15 years. I'm sure this will go splendidly.

 

Apart from that, it was mind-numbingly boring. I have no idea what the writers are trying to do with any character.

 

God I just want this to end.

[ILoveReading]

9 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Meh.

I just want to know when Jared turned into William Shatner.

I hope that was Berens last episode, because oh boy.

The best part was Dean taking a punch from God, then standing up and telling him to GTFO his planet.

I'll give credit where its due.  I liked the framing of the last scene.  Them using Jensen's height and Rob's "not height" was great.

Dean getting into the face of tougher cosmic entities will never not give me life.

Okay, I liked two thing. 

But remember when Sam and Dean mattered in their own show.

[Myrelle]

If there was ever a doubt who the best actor on this show is, it need no longer be debated or questioned. Not IMO, anyway.

Dean was so strong in this episode. 

So. Fucking. Strong.

I can't even.

I have no clue as to how Jensen pulled that out of this script, but DAMN! it all to Hell if he didn't.

I'm so friggin' proud of him at this moment. 

[Bergamot]

14 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

The best part was Dean taking a punch from God, then standing up and telling him to GTFO his planet.

 

2 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Dean getting into the face of tougher cosmic entities will never not give me life.

 

Yes! Loved that!

I also liked Dean at the end, answering Sam's "What now?" by saying, "We'll find another way." Because Sam was right when he told Chuck that Dean would not give up.

[Myrelle]

He eve made the Big Apology seem as if HIS forgiveness of Cas was more important than anything else between them and his I'm sorry was because it took so long because he carries an unsatiable anger around with him all the time and he doesn't even know why; and I can so see that, and more importantly, FEEL! it from Dean-all the time.

But the best was when he got all up in Chuck's grill at the end; and Chuck knew he'd met his match in Dean Winchester.

[SueB]

Well I loved it.  It was meaty, intense, high stakes, and subverted a bunch of expectations IMO.

Quick thoughts:

• I believe the future-cast was real (ish).  Real enough in that Chuck clearly knew the plan was to trap him and that would result in Cas going insane and being at the bottom of the ocean in a Malek box, the monsters run amok, Sam and Dean get overwhelmed.  Not real in that I think individual choice STILL matters -- no matter what Chuck says.  So I think Chuck showed the most probable outcome.  And therefore was likely telling the truth about trapping God unbalances nature (or something to that effect) and the monsters win.  Therefore, Sam (IMO) made the right choice.  
• LOVED Dean/Cas hashing it out.  Cas just has no f*cks to give anymore. He laid it all out, baldly, everytime he got snark from Dean.  And I like that Dean said "of course I forgive you".  Because I think Dean DID forgive him.  The anger is just his coping mechanism. And Dean is so very self-aware.  He knows his response to pain is anger.  And he also knows the danger of just letting that lay there without resolution.  I'm glad he took the time for that prayer and then was heading back to the entrance.  I'm also glad Cas just acknowledged he heard him and that's all Cas needed. I love these two. 
• The boys snark-off with Chuck.  LOVED how neither Sam nor Dean are going to back down in front of Chuck.  Chuck knows it.  Fist pump from me when Sam flat out said "Dean raised me!".  
• I'm glad the wound is gone.  
• I'm bummed Eileen had to go but it makes perfect sense. I'm glad Sam laid one on her before she left and that she left knowing how he felt.  
• I swear, Chuck was into Dean getting up in his face.  I don't know if that was how Rob played it or planned but I get why Dean gets the full frontal sex scenes in the book with Chuck.  I liked that Dean threw a punch and so did Chuck -- excellent snark-off.
• Subverted Expectation: Get the 'blossom' to trap God McGuffin was previously a season-long kind of arc.  This was a one and done.  I think it means the real End is going to be much more sophisticated.
• Jody Mills/Post-Apocalyptic Action Hero; You go girl.  She had some moves.  
• Ending: Jack!  I'm looking forward to his return.  I don't think it'll be next episode.  I think this is like when Cas was in the empty.  I think this is going to play out as background for until the episode after next (or even one more after that).  I wonder if Death was waiting to see if TFW went the Trap route and once they didn't, she felt she had to engage. 

Really excited for the rest of the season!

[Myrelle]

2 minutes ago, Bergamot said:

 

Yes! Loved that!

I also liked Dean at the end, answering Sam's "What now?" by saying, "We'll find another way." Because Sam was right when he told Chuck that Dean would not give up.

He trusted Sam's feeling on the truth of what Chuck had shown him implicitly. No questions asked.

[Myrelle]

All this said, I really think that Dean is a goner by the end of the series.

Chuck would have to recognize this as a necessity if he even hopes to have a chance at winning.

[Myrelle]

The biggest bummer was the very end.

Why, oh WHY?! do we have to bring the NougatBaby back?

Ugh.

Can't stand that character. 

BLECH!

 

[Myrelle]

13 minutes ago, SueB said:

LOVED Dean/Cas hashing it out.  Cas just has no f*cks to give anymore. He laid it all out, baldly, everytime he got snark from Dean.  And I like that Dean said "of course I forgive you".  Because I think Dean DID forgive him.  The anger is just his coping mechanism. And Dean is so very self-aware.  He knows his response to pain is anger.  And he also knows the danger of just letting that lay there without resolution.  I'm glad he took the time for that prayer and then was heading back to the entrance.  I'm also glad Cas just acknowledged he heard him and that's all Cas needed. I love these two

I thought Cas was a Class A Dick until he got the apology that he(but moreso his fandom and the writers) demanded of Dean. But Cas has been turned into Sam II by the writers at this stage of the game, IMO(in that he skated on all of his worst sins over the last four seasons, too, AFAIC), so I would expect no less from the writing because of that.

 

[Castiels Cat]

Dean/Jensen was fantastic in this.  I am not buying that it's obvious that Sam made the right choice given how manipulative Chuck has been. Dean and Cas risked their lives. Sam just ... dropped the ball... literally. EYEROLL.

Wasn't there flower left over.

Boy... that oh so dangerous Eve/leviathan subplot was resolved easily. EYEROLL.

43 minutes ago, Bergamot said:

 

Yes! Loved that!

I also liked Dean at the end, answering Sam's "What now?" by saying, "We'll find another way." Because Sam was right when he told Chuck that Dean would not give up.

Then why did Sam believe the BS Chuck showed him. That was exactly why Sam should not have believed it. Reason 2... Dean became a vamp before and held off feeding and took the cure. It was a BS vision in order for Sam to spoil the one way they could defeat Chuck themselves... without wonderboy.

[gonzosgirrl]

21 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

But Cas has been turned into Sam II by the writers at this stage of the game, IMO(in that he skated on all of his worst sins over the last four seasons, too, AFAIC), so I would expect no less from the writing because of that.

So true.  When Cas has apologized, it was always, ALWAYS qualified with a 'but' followed by an excuse or justification. Dean is the only one who ever makes a real apology, and Cas didn't deserve one, AT ALL. Berens is a cut-rate soap opera writer. 

[Castiels Cat]

28 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

I thought Cas was a Class A Dick until he got the apology that he(but moreso his fandom and the writers) demanded of Dean. But Cas has been turned into Sam II by the writers at this stage of the game, IMO(in that he skated on all of his worst sins over the last four seasons, too, AFAIC), so I would expect no less from the writing because of that.

 

Taking to BvJ

Edited January 17, 2020 by Castiels Cat

[ILoveReading]

47 minutes ago, SueB said:

And therefore was likely telling the truth about trapping God unbalances nature (or something to that effect) and the monsters win. 

This doesn't really make sense because of Amara.  The both have to exist for the balance between Light and Dark.  Things are no better/no worse than when Amara was locked up vs Amara being free. 

If they can trap one and maintain balance why not the other?  Its not like God is dead. 

[ILoveReading]

50 minutes ago, SueB said:

LOVED Dean/Cas hashing it out.  Cas just has no f*cks to give anymore.

I thought Cas was a grade A asshole here.  He was the one that screwed up and lied to protect Jack which resulted in Mary's death, but Cas made himself into the victim rather than take responsibility. 

He walked away (but showed up when he needed something), and expected Dean to chase him when Dean was the victim of Cas' s actions.  This just shows me Cas is really no better than John, and Sam.  They both expect Dean to just accept their actions even when they wrong him. 

[ahrtee]

 

2 minutes ago, Castiels Cat said:

Cas withheld intel to protect Jack who was dangerous and that got Mary killed. Dean had every right to be angry and he had every right to continue to be angry about it for as long as it took for him to trust Cas again and forgive him. Nobody else gets to choose how we grieve or how we heal or how we move on when somebody we trusted betrays us so deeply that they no longer lose our trust; they also cause the death of a loved one by their actions.

#Let Dean Mourn. #Let Dean Have Emotions.

I'll add to that:  people are allowed to be angry.  To be unforgiving, if the offense is big enough (even with people you love.)  You can *ask* for forgiveness, hope for it, pray for it, but no one has the right to *demand* it and be pissed if they don't get it.  Cas lost Dean's trust over several years, not just for one thing (though that was probably the final straw).  He always forgave before, but sometimes it's just too much.  That's what Sam did way too often, especially in seasons 4-5:  "I said I'm sorry.  Why are you still angry?  Why don't you trust me?" as if words, even sincerely said, can make up for betrayal immediately.  He certainly didn't forgive Dean immediately for Amy, or Gadreel, and Dean let him be angry without demanding immediate forgiveness. 

Being angry is human.  Remember there's a reason that "to forgive is divine."   And most especially, NO ONE should be made to apologize for not forgiving immediately.  No one should be made to feel guilty for not forgiving immediately.  And no one should be forced to forgive before they're ready, just to keep the peace.  

  

 

[Wynne88]

I'll watch it again (which isn't true for all of this season so far).

I was surprised when Cas carried the day when it came to them going to purgatory or rescuing Sam.  I almost expected Dean to say they would split up with Cas doing the purgatory job while he went after Sam.  Jensen was awesome when he prayed to Cas and the sincerity absolutely rang through, but in general, Cas probably could have gone after the flower on his own since he seemed to do most of the heavy lifting anyway.  Other than giving him a chance to try to repair their friendship, Dean's side of this episode was pretty light and without much purpose, as so many predicted.

I thought Jared did a good job both while tied to the chair (when all you've got are words and facial expressions) and in the vision scenes.  It did seem weird to have him standing behind his future self watching, instead of just seeing it happen in his mind.  I think the best part of his acting was at the end, when he couldn't force himself to do anything with the magic ball.  He just looked defeated and ashamed.

I did wonder why - when Eileen was digging around in Sam's shoulder, it didn't hurt Chuck.  I thought what happened to one happened to the other, but maybe I misunderstood.

In some ways this reminded me of the episode way back when Dean got sent to the future and met future Dean (although that was an episode with a far better story and a clear purpose that didn't skip around like this one did).  He believed what he was shown there, just as Sam did here.    

At any rate, for me, there was more to like than not.

[KayCordingly]

JFC what the hell was that?? I always forget how infuriating this show can be until I watch a new episode. Halfway through the episode even my wife caved and said "you were right, this season sucks".

I feel like Chuck making Sam lose hope was a metaphor for the writers making the fans lose hope.

 

- Why wasn't Chuck in pain when he was cutting into Sam's wound, seeing as how the entire point was that they were connected?

- Um, Sam losing hope = Chuck's power level restored makes WHAT kind of sense? That was lol so random!

- Why would Chuck being trapped by the mark cause the world to be overtaken by darkness and monsters? The world wasn't all rainbows and kittens when Amara was trapped by the mark.

- I HATED that Dean apologized for daring to show emotions because his best friend would bring up Jack whenever Dean tried to bring up Mary. 

- the Leviathan effect was worse than in season 7.

- Right. Dean is going to blast the Leviathan with a single shot of borax and then turn his back on him. Sure show, whatever you say.

- Wow, what an exciting scene Cas described to Dean about his daring escape. Too bad the writers don't know about "show don't tell".

- Hey, as long as we have an entire two minutes before the portal closes, and it's who-knows how far away, let's stop everything and have a heart-to-heart.

Ok I think I'm done ranting.

[SueB]

10 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

This doesn't really make sense because of Amara.  The both have to exist for the balance between Light and Dark.  Things are no better/no worse than when Amara was locked up vs Amara being free. 

If they can trap one and maintain balance why not the other?  Its not like God is dead. 

Because it’s Chuck’s creation.  In order to prevent the Multiverse from collapsing they both have to live. In order to prevent the Universe dying (the Sun going out was symbolic), Chuck had to live.  So, IMO, it stands to reason the ‘his creation, his rules’ applies.  And if he’s trapped, then I could see how the rules get out of whack.  He is Light, so despite being an asshole, he keeps the balance of ‘nature’.  He said the nature (or maybe the American Park System) was his greatest creation.  

[ILoveReading]

5 minutes ago, SueB said:

Because it’s Chuck’s creation.  In order to prevent the Multiverse from collapsing they both have to live. In order to prevent the Universe dying (the Sun going out was symbolic), Chuck had to live.  So, IMO, it stands to reason the ‘his creation, his rules’ applies.  And if he’s trapped, then I could see how the rules get out of whack.  He is Light, so despite being an asshole, he keeps the balance of ‘nature’.  He said the nature (or maybe the American Park System) was his greatest creation.  

But if he's trapped he's still alive he just can't write or change anything.  His creation and his rules are left in the status quo.

If there has to be symmetry and the light being trapped means darkness runs amuck, than shouldn't the opposite be true if darkness is trapped.  That light would run amuck.  That certainly didn't happen.

Sam should have at least questioned it before giving up.

[ahrtee]

General questions on the ep:

1.  Why was Cas so insistent that Dean go with him (everywhere)?  As someone said upthread, one could have gone to Purgatory and the other to save Sam.  (No one seemed impressed that Dean did choose the world over Sam this time!)

Then, when they got to Purgatory and Dean suggested splitting up, Cas was adamant that they stay together to avoid "getting killed or getting lost."  But he later told Dean that his sense of direction was perfect, and had no problem taking off on his own once Dean was knocked out (and no trouble either getting rid of the Leviathans or finding the flower all on his own.)  And he didn't go to find Dean once he had, but just sat and waited for him to catch up. I wonder what he would have done if Dean hadn't shown up in time.  Left without him?  Missed the rift to wait?  

2.  How can you kill something that's already dead?  It's been asked before (but never answered) what happens to monsters killed in Purgatory.  Since souls in hell apparently can be restored over and over to continue the torture (remember Dean saying every day he'd be whole again, like magic, and Alistair complaining that reality was "too concrete" on earth) then wouldn't monsters regenerate?  Or, if demons who are killed by the Colt or the demon knife wind up in the Empty, wouldn't dead monsters go there, too?  So maybe Benny is still retrievable.  

OTOH, didn't they say that Eve was down in Purgatory?  Is she trapped there (and if so, why?)  Or, since she was killed dead/dead, shouldn't she be in the Empty too?

3. I did have to laugh when Sam said he didn't believe what Chuck was showing him, and Chuck said something like "I'm just the conduit (or mirror, or whatever), showing the truth.  Um, no.  Chuck, honey, you're the author.  You've said that many times.  Even assuming the characters can change their own futures/not follow the script, you wrote the script that you're showing Sam.  It boggles the mind that Sam would even think to accept Chuck's version of the future.  

4. My head was spinning by the about-faces of hope/despair.  Sam and Dean were alternating so fast and frequently that it was making me dizzy.  I still don't know who's on first there.  

5. And finally, as just about everyone has noted, it makes no sense that locking Chuck up would cause any major problems.  He's been absent for millennia; and the balance would remain the same as long as he's still alive.  Amara/The Darkness being locked up since the beginning of time certainly didn't affect anything.  

My personal feelings:  I hate torture porn.  And I don't know why they insist on doing it to Sam all the time, except that his forte really is screaming.  Dean just grunts.  😊

[Cambion]

I have only one thing to say:

 

Sam, "DEAN RAISED ME."

 

 

[S Cook Productions]

2 hours ago, SueB said:

Well I loved it.  It was meaty, intense, high stakes, and subverted a bunch of expectations IMO.

Quick thoughts:

• I believe the future-cast was real (ish).  Real enough in that Chuck clearly knew the plan was to trap him and that would result in Cas going insane and being at the bottom of the ocean in a Malek box, the monsters run amok, Sam and Dean get overwhelmed.  Not real in that I think individual choice STILL matters -- no matter what Chuck says.  So I think Chuck showed the most probable outcome.  And therefore was likely telling the truth about trapping God unbalances nature (or something to that effect) and the monsters win.  Therefore, Sam (IMO) made the right choice.  
• LOVED Dean/Cas hashing it out.  Cas just has no f*cks to give anymore. He laid it all out, baldly, everytime he got snark from Dean.  And I like that Dean said "of course I forgive you".  Because I think Dean DID forgive him.  The anger is just his coping mechanism. And Dean is so very self-aware.  He knows his response to pain is anger.  And he also knows the danger of just letting that lay there without resolution.  I'm glad he took the time for that prayer and then was heading back to the entrance.  I'm also glad Cas just acknowledged he heard him and that's all Cas needed. I love these two. 
• The boys snark-off with Chuck.  LOVED how neither Sam nor Dean are going to back down in front of Chuck.  Chuck knows it.  Fist pump from me when Sam flat out said "Dean raised me!".  
• I'm glad the wound is gone.  
• I'm bummed Eileen had to go but it makes perfect sense. I'm glad Sam laid one on her before she left and that she left knowing how he felt.  
• I swear, Chuck was into Dean getting up in his face.  I don't know if that was how Rob played it or planned but I get why Dean gets the full frontal sex scenes in the book with Chuck.  I liked that Dean threw a punch and so did Chuck -- excellent snark-off.
• Subverted Expectation: Get the 'blossom' to trap God McGuffin was previously a season-long kind of arc.  This was a one and done.  I think it means the real End is going to be much more sophisticated.
• Jody Mills/Post-Apocalyptic Action Hero; You go girl.  She had some moves.  
• Ending: Jack!  I'm looking forward to his return.  I don't think it'll be next episode.  I think this is like when Cas was in the empty.  I think this is going to play out as background for until the episode after next (or even one more after that).  I wonder if Death was waiting to see if TFW went the Trap route and once they didn't, she felt she had to engage. 

Really excited for the rest of the season!

I totally agree with all of this SueB! In fact, I was going to say many of these things but not nearly as eloquently as you...and now I don’t have to type it all because you did. So yes. What you said. 🙂

[S Cook Productions]

1 hour ago, KayCordingly said:

JFC what the hell was that?? I always forget how infuriating this show can be until I watch a new episode. Halfway through the episode even my wife caved and said "you were right, this season sucks".

I feel like Chuck making Sam lose hope was a metaphor for the writers making the fans lose hope.

 

- Why wasn't Chuck in pain when he was cutting into Sam's wound, seeing as how the entire point was that they were connected?

- Um, Sam losing hope = Chuck's power level restored makes WHAT kind of sense? That was lol so random!

- Why would Chuck being trapped by the mark cause the world to be overtaken by darkness and monsters? The world wasn't all rainbows and kittens when Amara was trapped by the mark.

- I HATED that Dean apologized for daring to show emotions because his best friend would bring up Jack whenever Dean tried to bring up Mary. 

- the Leviathan effect was worse than in season 7.

- Right. Dean is going to blast the Leviathan with a single shot of borax and then turn his back on him. Sure show, whatever you say.

- Wow, what an exciting scene Cas described to Dean about his daring escape. Too bad the writers don't know about "show don't tell".

- Hey, as long as we have an entire two minutes before the portal closes, and it's who-knows how far away, let's stop everything and have a heart-to-heart.

Ok I think I'm done ranting.

Lol. As much as I enjoyed this episode, I did totally agree with some of your points; particularly 1, 2, 3, and the last one! I was thinking the same thing! I almost yelled, “you can do this later guys! The portal’s closing!”

 

[7kstar]

For those that loved it. great for you.

So many lines were bad fanfiction.  Chuck, sorry I don't believe you.  "The End" was so much stronger than this one.  So the rehash not a win.

Chuck as the big bad, still fails for me.  I did like Dean standing up to Chuck and towering over him.  Shows how short God is and makes me think of the yippy dogs that try to sound all tuff but fail.

I'm not a fan of the forced forgiveness routine although Jensen does knock it out of the park each time.  Sorry Cas but deciding when you should be forgiven isn't your right.  If you're allowed to be upset still about Jack then you have no right to decide when Dean has to get over Jack killing his mom and the part you played in it.   Owning your actions is more than just words. 

Some of the worst lines ever in this show.

I did wonder why Jared was doing it so over the top.  So I do get the comparison to William Shatner.

Jody - you were awesome.  About the only thing they did right.

I don't remember Vampires hissing so much.  Sorry a fail for me from both Jensen and Jared.

I think God is lying by omission.  Of course Jack couldn't come back until God left so here he comes to save the day.

The shows seems to reflect my life right now, spinning but not really going in any real direction.  Not what I wanted for the last season.  Sorry Dabb, go back to the drawing board.  Try again...maybe you'll get it right sooner or later.

[ahrtee]

1 minute ago, 7kstar said:

I don't remember Vampires hissing so much.  Sorry a fail for me from both Jensen and Jared.

I think they were supposed to be werewolves, since yes, vampires can be cured pretty easily (and Sam was taken down by a bullet, so I assume it was silver.)  Both vamps and wolves seem to have the same teeth these days. though I don't think either of them hiss.  I could be wrong, though. 😊

[AwesomO4000]

1 hour ago, ahrtee said:

Then, when they got to Purgatory and Dean suggested splitting up, Cas was adamant that they stay together to avoid "getting killed or getting lost."  But he later told Dean that his sense of direction was perfect,

Ooh ooh, I have a fanwank for this one... Much of that was "Winchester theatre" for the Leviathan following them? My theory is that they knew the Leviathan was following them for a while - they kinda said as such -  and so they were being distracting with stupid arguments. They did sound kind of weird - and loud?*** - during that exchange.

*** Because if that Leviathan hadn't been following them, then their voices would surely have attracted any monsters in the vicinity.

Quote

How can you kill something that's already dead?  It's been asked before (but never answered) what happens to monsters killed in Purgatory.  Since souls in hell apparently can be restored over and over to continue the torture (remember Dean saying every day he'd be whole again, like magic, and Alistair complaining that reality was "too concrete" on earth) then wouldn't monsters regenerate?  Or, if demons who are killed by the Colt or the demon knife wind up in the Empty, wouldn't dead monsters go there, too?  So maybe Benny is still retrievable.  

I agree that Benny shouldn't be dead dead. In no other realm does anything die for good (like in Hell as you said, the souls come back), and if that was the case that they die die, there wouldn't be millions of monsters' souls for Castiel to have eaten.. they would've all killed each other off by now.

So I think the Leviathan was lying myself.

Edited January 17, 2020 by AwesomO4000

[catrox14]

This was stupid. I never thought I'd be off the Destiel ship and yet here I am about ready to jump. This season is ruining Cas for me. He was such a dick. Why the fuck is Dean the one being hel responsible for not stopping a grown ass man from leaving of his own free will? I have never wanted to see Dean punch Cas like I did in this episode. Cas can fuck right off. And it breaks my shipper heart to say this.

I really don't know what has happened to Jared's acting chops because they don't seem to exist anymore. He was awful in every scene.

I do have two positive comments.

Jensen once again turns shit writing into something nearly palatable and Dean telling Chuck to fuck off was great

RIP Benny.

 

 

[Bessie]

That was boring. I suspect it was written as a final pander to destielers, but I’m not one. And even Jensen’s emoting didn’t move me a bit. But, I’m not against pandering during the final season. Hopefully the writers have checked that box and can move on now. 

While I don’t think Dean has to bestow forgiveness on-demand, castiel probably handled Dean’s anger as well as he could. 

But, I just don’t care enough about their friendship for the resolution to their little spat to matter to me. 

[Castiels Cat]

10 hours ago, SueB said:

Well I loved it.  It was meaty, intense, high stakes, and subverted a bunch of expectations IMO.

Quick thoughts:

• I believe the future-cast was real (ish).  Real enough in that Chuck clearly knew the plan was to trap him and that would result in Cas going insane and being at the bottom of the ocean in a Malek box, the monsters run amok, Sam and Dean get overwhelmed.  Not real in that I think individual choice STILL matters -- no matter what Chuck says.  So I think Chuck showed the most probable outcome.  And therefore was likely telling the truth about trapping God unbalances nature (or something to that effect) and the monsters win.  Therefore, Sam (IMO) made the right choice.  
• LOVED Dean/Cas hashing it out.  Cas just has no f*cks to give anymore. He laid it all out, baldly, everytime he got snark from Dean.  And I like that Dean said "of course I forgive you".  Because I think Dean DID forgive him.  The anger is just his coping mechanism. And Dean is so very self-aware.  He knows his response to pain is anger.  And he also knows the danger of just letting that lay there without resolution.  I'm glad he took the time for that prayer and then was heading back to the entrance.  I'm also glad Cas just acknowledged he heard him and that's all Cas needed. I love these two. 
• The boys snark-off with Chuck.  LOVED how neither Sam nor Dean are going to back down in front of Chuck.  Chuck knows it.  Fist pump from me when Sam flat out said "Dean raised me!".  
• I'm glad the wound is gone.  
• I'm bummed Eileen had to go but it makes perfect sense. I'm glad Sam laid one on her before she left and that she left knowing how he felt.  
• I swear, Chuck was into Dean getting up in his face.  I don't know if that was how Rob played it or planned but I get why Dean gets the full frontal sex scenes in the book with Chuck.  I liked that Dean threw a punch and so did Chuck -- excellent snark-off.
• Subverted Expectation: Get the 'blossom' to trap God McGuffin was previously a season-long kind of arc.  This was a one and done.  I think it means the real End is going to be much more sophisticated.
• Jody Mills/Post-Apocalyptic Action Hero; You go girl.  She had some moves.  
• Ending: Jack!  I'm looking forward to his return.  I don't think it'll be next episode.  I think this is like when Cas was in the empty.  I think this is going to play out as background for until the episode after next (or even one more after that).  I wonder if Death was waiting to see if TFW went the Trap route and once they didn't, she felt she had to engage. 

Really excited for the rest of the season!

I liked the scene with Dean and Chuck because Dean was telling him that he wasn't going to be his puppet (I forget the exact words). It calls back to the fact that Dean has been the character that has gone off script,,the one that Chuck can't always "push" where he wants at pivotal moments.

Dean Dean refuses to play the Apocalypse game and is the driving force in Team Free Will BECAUSE HE REFUSES TO KILL HIS BROTHER. 

Dean shows up and uses Chuck to save Sam in MatEotB which was not written by Chuck, not part of the story.

Dean calls Chuck to find out where the big fight is which Chuck did not foresee, SS.

Dean talks Amara down averting the End which is not what Chuck wrote... probably, s 11.

Moriah... big time.

Lilith tells Dean that Chuck really pervs on him. Why. He is the one that gets away. He is the wild card.

Chuck has seen enough though to know that Dean's weakness as well as his strength is family. Chuck can manipulative Dean bu hurting his family or putting them in peril.

[Casseiopeia]

Well my favorite part was when Claire "died". Other than that a completely forgettable episode. I was embarrassed for everyone who had to make sense of that script.

 

[Ray Adverb]

Unpopular opinion, but I loved it.  I love most episodes of this show.  Too bad to see it go but they had a good run.

I'm wondering how their victory against God would lead to the bleakness they witnessed and monsters overrunning humanity.  Was God keeping the monsters in check?

It's about time they followed up on Jack's fate at the end of last season.  Maybe he'll become the new God?

[gonzosgirrl]

12 minutes ago, Casseiopeia said:

Well my favorite part was when Claire "died". Other than that a completely forgettable episode. I was embarrassed for everyone who had to make sense of that script.

 

Too bad it was only in a possible future.

5 minutes ago, Ray Adverb said:

I'm wondering how their victory against God would lead to the bleakness they witnessed and monsters overrunning humanity.  Was God keeping the monsters in check?

I believe the implication was that if they trapped/disabled Chuck, then the balance would be upset and the monsters would win. That would make sense if the opposite were true when Amara was caged, but it wasn't. So we'll just have to chalk it up to 'new canon' and move on. At least until next week when it can and will be new canon all over again.

[Bobcatkitten]

If the current world is God keeping the monsters in check then he's doing a piss poor job. 

 

I am sort of okay with the Dean apology because he apologized for not forgiving him quicker. And to me when you are talking about forgiveness then that is an implicit agreement that Cas fucked up. It does bother me though that we never actually heard Cas apologize, though. Did we? 

 

Jensen killed that scene and man the last one going up against God was amazing. His speech when he was demoralized in one of the visions was also pretty great. 

 

Glad Sam laid one on Eileen. I understand her going though. 

 

Even mentioning Eve in Purgatory and having Cas tell a tale was weird. Leave it out if you aren't going to show it. Not excited about Jack swooping in to save the day. 

Oh yeah and I have to add. The vampire scene with Jensen bearing his teeth was straight up laughable. How embarrassing. The show used to be scary. 

[Bali]

Wow. Just Wow. Only I mean WOW like I'm seeing a semi run over a blind man, not like WOW isn't that a beautiful sunset. 

I'm okay with the apology because Cas and Dean were very close friends. Dean just found out that Benny is gone. And Dean probably realized that Cas could be gone also. And as the 80's song says, "It's too late when we die to admit we don't see eye to eye." I've had very personal experience watching someone refuse to forgive until after the other person is dead and it's too late. It caused a whole lot of other issues. As for remembering if Cas has apologized yet. I think he might have, but I don't really remember because I'm finding most of this season largely forgettable.

Sam- why oh why would you suddenly believe the exact same dude that has lied to you over and over and over? Like seriously, how many times before you (like normal people always do) eventually say, "You are a liar and I don't believe you anymore. Not sorry." 

Speaking of liars, Dean- why do believe the bad fx Leviathan about Benny? Huh? Why come?

Water pistols for why locking up Amara is okay, locking up Chuck is bad. Yes- I'm calling it water pistols. Chuck's rules? Palease. If darkness is locked away, monsters should be gone. And also- in 2022, or whatever, can't Rowena help with the monster situation? Isn't the more pressing issue that heaven's doors are closed because of fading angel juice or whatever?

Oh never mind Mighty Jack is on the Way. Here he comes to save the day. (Yes that is to be sung in your head to the Mighty Mouse theme song.)
 

DEAN RAISED SAM- and the show FINALLY admitted it.

I love Dean. I love Sam. But really, if Dean towered over Chuckles, should Moose have really towered over Chuckles?

This episode is okay on the surface, but if you look closely, it really isn't okay.

 

Edited January 17, 2020 by Bali
I hit the return button on accident.

[gonzosgirrl]

20 minutes ago, Bobcatkitten said:

It does bother me though that we never actually heard Cas apologize, though. Did we? 

There was a non-apology (the I'm sorry you felt bad kind, not the I'm sorry for what I did kind) and a lot of excuse-making.

20 minutes ago, Bobcatkitten said:

Oh yeah and I have to add. The vampire scene with Jensen bearing his teeth was straight up laughable. How embarrassing. The show used to be scary. 

Gah, I wish I could disagree with this. Adding in that hissing - which I assume was in post-production - was straight-up ridiculous. Not marionette-fight levels of bad, but bad just the same.

Edited January 17, 2020 by gonzosgirrl

[Pondlass1]

Purgatory has blue skies and green grass now and apparently almost empty of vampires and leviathans.  If Benny is dead where is he now?
With no disrespect to the wonderful  Rob Benedict, why wouldn’t God pick a taller, handsomer vessel?   Dean towering over him was quite amusing.

 

 

[Bali]

1 minute ago, Pondlass1 said:

Purgatory has blue skies and green grass now and apparently almost empty of vampires and leviathans.  If Benny is dead where is he now?
With no disrespect to the wonderful  Rob Benedict, why wouldn’t God pick a taller, handsomer vessel?   Dean towering over him was quite amusing.

 

 

OH! THAT'S IT. My new ending will be Dean in Purgatory singing, "Blue Skies, smiling at me. Nothing but blue skies do I see."

God should have chosen Liam Neesan as his vessel. He can appear quite cuddly, but he trained Batman, so you know he's a baddass

[Ray Adverb]

47 minutes ago, Bobcatkitten said:

If the current world is God keeping the monsters in check then he's doing a piss poor job.

What do you mean?  There are monsters, sure, but the various hunters are able to keep them mostly under control.  The flash forward scenes were suppose to illustrate that the monsters utterly overwhelmed the hunters.

24 minutes ago, Pondlass1 said:

With no disrespect to the wonderful  Rob Benedict, why wouldn’t God pick a taller, handsomer vessel?   Dean towering over him was quite amusing.

I think it was always God's intention to confound people by appearing as a short, nebbishy, dork.  Remember Metatron's reaction when he found out?

[Bobcatkitten]

8 minutes ago, Ray Adverb said:

What do you mean?  There are monsters, sure, but the various hunters are able to keep them mostly under control.  The flash forward scenes were suppose to illustrate that the monsters utterly overwhelmed the hunters.

But if they were under control you wouldn't need hunters...

[Bali]

20 minutes ago, Ray Adverb said:

What do you mean?  There are monsters, sure, but the various hunters are able to keep them mostly under control.  The flash forward scenes were suppose to illustrate that the monsters utterly overwhelmed the hunters.

I think it was always God's intention to confound people by appearing as a short, nebbishy, dork.  Remember Metatron's reaction when he found out?

Also, if the monsters are under control because of God's power, then why aren't the monsters getting out of control because God isn't at full power? 

This part of Chuck's story REALLY doesn't make sense. It just keeps bringing up more questions for me. 

Add me to the list of people who are tired of this show being reduced to torture porn. Sorry, it doesn't cut it anymore.

 

[gonzosgirrl]

The thing that made the least sense to me was why Eileen digging around in Sam's wound didn't affect Chuck in the slightest. On at least two prior occasions we're shown the connection between them, but her literally trying to dig it out of him didn't even phase Chuck? I thought that was the reason for his hesitation to do it himself, but nope.... nada.

And having Eileen do it with the exposition that Chuck really likes to watch: the definition of torture porn.

[BabySpinach]

Oh wow, Cas was predictably insufferable in this ep. I just LOVED how he treated Dean like a dumb, misbehaving child and was always framed in the right. No matter what, he's just a woobie sweetheart bullied incessantly by big mean Dean, whose constant screw-ups are never as bad as whatever unpretty emotion Dean is feeling as a response to those screw-ups.

And FUCK him for demanding forgiveness, and apparently giving no fucks about Mary in comparison to her literal murderer. What a petty, self-centered, entitled bitch. But hey, at least all the Destiellers got to cream themselves over what they've always wanted to see: Dean literally on his knees, crying and grovelling to Cas. No matter how good Jensen's acting, it made me want to hurl. Somehow CAS became the wronged party in all this, and he was never forced to grovel like that in regards to Mary and Jack.

The rest of it was pretty damn boring. Vampire Winchesters were so fucking cringey, though. Poor Jensen.

One bright spot was Dean punching God. Another was Dean "Free Will" Winchester shit-talking him to his face. 

BOOO! to Jack returning. I can't think of another character I want to see less. His absence had been one of the few positives of this season, and now it won't even have that going for it.

[Lemuria]

5 minutes ago, BabySpinach said:

Oh wow, Cas was predictably insufferable in this ep. I just LOVED how he treated Dean like a dumb, misbehaving child and was always framed in the right. No matter what, he's just a woobie sweetheart bullied incessantly by big mean Dean, whose constant screw-ups are never as bad as whatever unpretty emotion Dean is feeling as a response to those screw-ups.

And FUCK him for demanding forgiveness, and apparently giving no fucks about Mary in comparison to her literal murderer. What a petty, self-centered, entitled bitch. But hey, at least all the Destiellers got to cream themselves over what they've always wanted to see: Dean literally on his knees, crying and grovelling to Cas. No matter how good Jensen's acting, it made me want to hurl. Somehow CAS became the wronged party in all this, and he was never forced to grovel like that in regards to Mary and Jack.

The rest of it was pretty damn boring. Vampire Winchesters were so fucking cringey, though. Poor Jensen.

One bright spot was Dean punching God. Another was Dean "Free Will" Winchester shit-talking him to his face. 

BOOO! to Jack returning. I can't think of another character I want to see less. His absence had been one of the few positives of this season, and now it won't even have that going for it.

Can I like this 10,000?  

[Myrelle]

"But if they were under control you wouldn't need hunters..."

Maybe since Chuck is supposedly the Light half of the God equation, with Amara the Dark half being locked away(but not dead), the Light was able to be more dominant-not dominate completely because she still lives-but dominate in some ways.

IOW, as bad as things have been with the monsters with Chuck free and Amara locked away, they would be much worse if it was the other way around.

 

Edited January 17, 2020 by Myrelle
Additions

[Ray Adverb]

42 minutes ago, Bobcatkitten said:

But if they were under control you wouldn't need hunters...

What I'm saying is that it's only like 95% under control.  Either by God's choice (more likely) or by his impotence.