S08.E10: Hold Our Ground

[jewel21]

Members of Firehouse 51 are dismayed to learn their boundaries have been redrawn to overlap with an adjacent station, and problems quickly arise. Casey and Gallo hunt a missing piece of equipment. Brett and Foster find themselves at odds.

Airdate: 01/08/2020

[dovegrey]

This was a somewhat decent episode, until the 4-rig, on-radio firecop pursuit happened. They should all be fired. 

This show used to blow through story arcs at breakneck speed, but character storylines were at least given 2-3 episodes at minimum. It's disappointing to have a potentially interesting storyline, like Foster's tonight, originate, play out, and culminate as one of multiple other storylines in a single episode. It's always like this now, unless it's somehow about or involving St. Severide. 

I used to think Casey was the last likable, believable original/longstanding character left who hadn't been caricaturized or overglorified. He's been lifeless and miserable for nearly two seasons, and now he's leading multi-company fire truck pursuits of robbery suspects through Chicago. I'd like for him to move to Puerto Rico now, before the writers completely ruin him. 

[mxc90]

Conrad goes from holding a flare, threatening Kelly to receiving a well deserved beating from Kelly to having Kelly rescue him, to shamefully standing by Kelly's hip hoping to escape the fire.

That's it! Kelly is done with OFI? Waste!

The driver "trapped" in the car is a real diva! I thought he was stuck in there. He could have exited the car through the window on his own power. Nope! He just sat there, waited for Casey to waste time with the jaws and when the door opened he just rolled out easily.

All those firefighters, police, a photographer and bystanders around and no one noticed the guy stealing the jaws? 

Gallo had the jaws in his hand after seeing Violet. Maybe he was so upset after his encounter with her, saw the red pickup, thought it  was the truck 81 and put the jaws in the pickup's trunk?!!?

Why did the criminals tie up the old man in chains in the side walk? Was he guarding the ATM?

Wendy has no shame! Stella is right there and she's pushing on Kelly! I hope they are done with her and this story line.

Sylvie and Foster's feud ended too quickly. I wouldn't mind seeing this carried out for a while.

Who sees a fire truck waiting at a red light, assumes they are after you and drives off quickly like a lunatic? 

Seems like Gallo and Violet should have gotten it out of their systems a long time ago.

 

[MsJamieDornan]

3 hours ago, mxc90 said:

Wendy has no shame! Stella is right there and she's pushing on Kelly! I hope they are done with her and this story line.

But we will never know why she has such terrible hair !!

[Waterston Fan]

Meh... Didn't care for this one but I only liked the stupid car chase scene. 

Maybe Gallo really liked Violet but acted like a jerk just because. 

[mxc90]

6 hours ago, MsJamieDornan said:

But we will never know why she has such terrible hair !!

This is one mystery I wouldn't mind staying a mystery!

If Stella wants to know if Kelly is really into her, she should put on that wig to see his response.

Was the US Postal Service ashamed to have their current logo shown in this episode? I'm sure Mouch lost a lot of checks during his mail clean up.

[preeya]

7 hours ago, MsJamieDornan said:

But we will never know why she has such terrible hair !!

 

50 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

Wendy has no shame! Stella is right there and she's pushing on Kelly! I hope they are done with her and this story line.

I still say her face/facial expressions remind me of Carl Gallagher on Shameless.  And yes, what's up with that hairdo. 

[iMonrey]

It seemed like Foster's issue with Shay just came out of nowhere. I swear the writers really struggle to come up with material for a lot of these characters. 

I'm so glad the whole thing with Severide being assigned to the investigation department is over. Let's hope we've seen the last of Bad Wig Lady. 

Not only does this show routinely imply their hierarchy is corrupt and evil, but all the other fire stations are also evil and contemptible. 

Quote

The driver "trapped" in the car is a real diva! I thought he was stuck in there. He could have exited the car through the window on his own power. Nope! He just sat there, waited for Casey to waste time with the jaws and when the door opened he just rolled out easily.

LOL, this scene was badly choreographed. Not only that, but when the explosion finally happening it didn't reach anywhere near the interior of the car. The dude would have been fine even if he'd never gotten out.

[rhys]

Did we ever find out why Stella was so exhausted last season? Was it just due to the extra p/t job?

[iMonrey]

Yes is was because she was teaching at the academy and working her regular shifts at the same time. 

[dovegrey]

4 hours ago, iMonrey said:

It seemed like Foster's issue with Shay just came out of nowhere. I swear the writers really struggle to come up with material for a lot of these characters. 

I agree, and would add that they're struggling to come up with material for the premise of the show. How many investigation/faux-policework episodes have there been this season alone, on top of all the ones from seasons 6 and 7? 

Along those lines, I checked out Derek Haas' Twitter, only to find that the multi-rig firetruck chase was literally Haas fanboying himself. This writing team has become a bunch of network-sanctioned 11-year-olds writing bad AU fanfic about a formerly halfway decent show.

[Guildford]

5 hours ago, iMonrey said:

 

Not only does this show routinely imply their hierarchy is corrupt and evil, but all the other fire stations are also evil and contemptible. 

 

Don't forget the US Postal service.......they are evil heartless foils to our hero's quest to serve all mankind.

[Dowel Jones]

I walked out of the room when the car chase started; I was slapping my forehead way too much.  Suppose the (alleged) robber had decided to run at Sylvie's ambulance?  I would love to be a fly on the wall at that hearing.

They could have salvaged the entire chase scene idea with just a little addition to the dialogue:  

"If my calculations are correct, the Honorable Richard J Daley Plaza is just ahead."  "That's where they have that Picasso, isn't it?"

[iMonrey]

Quote

 How many investigation/faux-policework episodes have there been this season alone, on top of all the ones from seasons 6 and 7? 

Agreed. So many of the stories rely on other agencies being either corrupt or incompetent, so that House 51 can swoop in and save the day. It's ironic they're all griping about some other station being scene stealers and glory hounds. I didn't think the people of Chicago knew of any other station besides 51! Surely no other firefighter in the city is more famous than Casey.

[dovegrey]

12 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

I walked out of the room when the car chase started; I was slapping my forehead way too much.  Suppose the (alleged) robber had decided to run at Sylvie's ambulance?  I would love to be a fly on the wall at that hearing.

Yep. Plus, if the pick-up truck driver had wrecked into bystanders (other vehicles, pedestrians, buildings), the CFD would be as liable as if one of the rigs had hit someone or gotten hit by the suspect. Casey telling Kidd to be careful was pointless. Maybe it was a fun scene to film, and maybe it was a fun scene for some viewers, but it's plain disrespectful to portray the CFD as being willing to risk lives to get back a piece of equipment. Of all the stupid crap this show has done, I think this might be the true jump-the-shark moment for me. The writers have breached Casey.

FWIW, I've seen experienced police officers get their departments and municipalities successfully sued for lots of money due to borderline improper and/or unsafe police pursuits, which were carried out by officers trained to pursue in vehicles designed to pursue. If there had been injury, Casey, et al would be at risk of being personally sued and not indemnified by the city, since their actions were so grossly negligent and improper. I just... WTF.

[Court]

Do firehouses really overlap boundaries? I live in a city with it's own fire, police, etc but it is literally in the middle of a county. So sometimes the city helps the county and vice versa if they're close or it's a large fire. However, I don't think any of the firehouse bkundsides overlap 

 

[Dowel Jones]

The only way I can see districts overlapping is to test the response time from each station.  I thought Boden mentioned in the morning briefing that the overlap would be temporary, but I don't really remember.  HQ might change the first in boundaries ( and the second, and third, if necessary) to update their computer dispatch system.

[WinJet0819]

On 1/9/2020 at 11:59 PM, Dowel Jones said:

I walked out of the room when the car chase started; I was slapping my forehead way too much.  Suppose the (alleged) robber had decided to run at Sylvie's ambulance?  I would love to be a fly on the wall at that hearing.

They could have salvaged the entire chase scene idea with just a little addition to the dialogue:  

"If my calculations are correct, the Honorable Richard J Daley Plaza is just ahead."  "That's where they have that Picasso, isn't it?"

IKR!!! Firefighters using their fire trucks and ambo for a high speed pursuit. Seriously? I didn't know the CFD did pursuit training. I can only imagine the lawsuits coming if civilians had been injured in that chase.

It would have been better had Matt contacted one of the Intelligence members from CPD who just happened to be in the area, who could have legally pursued them. But that's something that's a bit too realistic for this show.

But outside of the chase, decent episode.

[lonestar]

This show is getting idiotic now, Another couple shows like this and I will do like I did with Chicago Med, stop watching it.

[spunky]

Sylvie where was all this energy when you were Gabby’s ride or die. I actually liked Gabby but ole girl did some things far worse than questioning a coworker. So now firehouse 51 are part time cops 🙄. Gallo and the paramedic were just childish with their interactions. Wendy is one bold woman. How do you try to move in on someone else’s man right in front of them?

[spunky]

On 1/9/2020 at 2:36 AM, MsJamieDornan said:

But we will never know why she has such terrible hair !!

Because the CFD hair stylist doesn’t know what a good wig looks like.

[dovegrey]

16 minutes ago, spunky said:

Sylvie where was all this energy when you were Gabby’s ride or die. I actually liked Gabby but ole girl did some things far worse than questioning a coworker. So now firehouse 51 are part time cops 🙄. Gallo and the paramedic were just childish with their interactions. Wendy is one bold woman. How do you try to move in on someone else’s man right in front of them?

Gallo/ParamedicLady barely made any sense. The woman (Violet?) was PIC, but she and Gallo acted like they'd just come out of the Academy together. Even Shay wasn't eligible to be PIC in season 2, and she'd been a paramedic for probably 3 years by then. Either the writers/costumers don't know/care, or Gallo was a candidate for a while before Casey poached him. (I'm going with don't know/don't care, because, when Brett was gone earlier this season, either there was no PIC or it was Foster, who hasn't been a paramedic that long.)

I'm embarrassed to admit this, but I'm a nosy data person, and I'm procrastinating on a project, and so I looked... 60% of this season's episodes have involved an investigation of some sort (including OFI), while 64% of season 7's episodes included investigations. Remember in the old seasons, when the characters got jumpy when someone checked in on a victim or followed-up on a call? I miss that. 

[spunky]

6 minutes ago, dovegrey said:

Gallo/ParamedicLady barely made any sense. The woman (Violet?) was PIC, but she and Gallo acted like they'd just come out of the Academy together. Even Shay wasn't eligible to be PIC in season 2, and she'd been a paramedic for probably 3 years by then. Either the writers/costumers don't know/care, or Gallo was a candidate for a while before Casey poached him. (I'm going with don't know/don't care, because, when Brett was gone earlier this season, either there was no PIC or it was Foster, who hasn't been a paramedic that long.)

I'm embarrassed to admit this, but I'm a nosy data person, and I'm procrastinating on a project, and so I looked... 60% of this season's episodes have involved an investigation of some sort (including OFI), while 64% of season 7's episodes included investigations. Remember in the old seasons, when the characters got jumpy when someone checked in on a victim or followed-up on a call? I miss that. 

Don’t be embarrassed about being a data person. This show needs new writers and fast.

[NJRadioGuy]

On 1/10/2020 at 12:59 AM, Dowel Jones said:

They could have salvaged the entire chase scene idea with just a little addition to the dialogue:  "If my calculations are correct, the Honorable Richard J Daley Plaza is just ahead."  "That's where they have that Picasso, isn't it?"

Use of unnecessary violence in the apprehension of Truck 81....has been approved.

Good ghods, I could feel my brain cells dying for most of this episode. You've got a working fire, E51/T81 are first due and E20 isn't added to the box, but rather they cancel the first-due companies? Uh huh. And which truck prey tell did they rustle up for the job (handwaving the fact that a real worker would get at least 4 and 2). Slammigan sighting (beer!). 

I don't know what kind of wacky t'baccy is being passed around in the writers' room but it must be the Really Good Stuff.

The USPS licenses their logo and are ultra protective of their brand. No conceivable way they'd lend their blessing to that episode. I don't think I've ever seen a correct USPS logo in any TV show or movie recently, come to think of it.

[NJRadioGuy]

17 hours ago, Court said:

Do firehouses really overlap boundaries? I live in a city with it's own fire, police, etc but it is literally in the middle of a county. So sometimes the city helps the county and vice versa if they're close or it's a large fire. 

This was another heaping pile of horseshit. Firehouse response is based on proximity and ease of access to the incident location. There are generally no boundaries except the actual border of the department, and even there, there are mutual aid agreements in place. 

If Station 51 is closest to the job they'd be the first due companies. If there's a barrier like a drawbridge, railroad crossing, speed humps, known heavy congestion, perhaps a different company that's slightly further out would be first due. That's all in the computers at the FAO (Fire Alarm Office). Heck, go back to Emergency! episodes from the 70s and you'll see dispatcher Sam Lanier scanning microfiche files for the address, which would have given him the correct companies to assign to the job.

But first due is just that. They're the first ones called on an alarm, but not the only ones. As I posted above, a house fire, even a small one, would get 3 or 4 engines and 2 truck companies in any sort of a realistic scenario on the first alarm. Apparatus from the nearest houses would be called. So E51, E20, E69 and E60 would be first, second, third, and fourth-due. And it's really immaterial since E60 may get a clean shot to the address, but the other 3 held up in a traffic jam. E60 would assume command and set up their lines. It's all very fluid.

I come at this from a NY perspective, not Chicago, but here's a list of what would be sent in NYC for different types of jobs. Compare that to TV Show Land. http://www.fdnewyork.com/aa.asp

[dovegrey]

2 hours ago, spunky said:

Don’t be embarrassed about being a data person. This show needs new writers and fast.

Thanks for that. 🙂

I agree about needing new writers. The writers don't appear to care about in-world consistency at all anymore, and that's what makes this show less enjoyable with each episode. Nearly every episode is manufactured plot junk. I get that the show can't depict 100% realistic conditions for a whole host of reasons, and I get that there will be some fun creative storytelling, but this is like watching Barnyard Firefighting PD, where anything goes. And they are clearly stumped about what firefighters do. 

It's a shame, too, because there are some hardhitting PSA-type episodes they could do, considering how often firefighters respond to overdoses. I wouldn't even mind a Puerto Rico episode or two, to be honest, if Dawson was written like it's 2014. And there's a lot of organic humor that could come out of routine bullshit runs and the characters' personalities. But Derek Haas is literally more interested in revisiting his 2 Fast 2 Furious days by writing firetruck streetracing hee hee. (He said "hee hee," not me, and he interviewed to this.) But the ratings are great, so nothing's going to change. 

[spunky]

3 hours ago, dovegrey said:

Thanks for that. 🙂

I agree about needing new writers. The writers don't appear to care about in-world consistency at all anymore, and that's what makes this show less enjoyable with each episode. Nearly every episode is manufactured plot junk. I get that the show can't depict 100% realistic conditions for a whole host of reasons, and I get that there will be some fun creative storytelling, but this is like watching Barnyard Firefighting PD, where anything goes. And they are clearly stumped about what firefighters do. 

It's a shame, too, because there are some hardhitting PSA-type episodes they could do, considering how often firefighters respond to overdoses. I wouldn't even mind a Puerto Rico episode or two, to be honest, if Dawson was written like it's 2014. And there's a lot of organic humor that could come out of routine bullshit runs and the characters' personalities. But Derek Haas is literally more interested in revisiting his 2 Fast 2 Furious days by writing firetruck streetracing hee hee. (He said "hee hee," not me, and he interviewed to this.) But the ratings are great, so nothing's going to change. 

You’re welcome. 😊

You would think that since the guy who plays Tony is an actual firefighter, that the writers and Derek Haas would draw from his experience. At this point it’s just lazy writing.

Edited January 12, 2020 by spunky

[Guildford]

6 hours ago, spunky said:

You’re welcome. 😊

You would think that since the guy who plays Tony is an actual firefighter, that the writers and Derek Haas would draw from his experience. At this point it’s just lazy writing.

The show is one big Ego stroke for Haas who obviously lives in Twitter land where they constantly blow sunshine up his ass. It's getting cringeworthy tbh.

I was talking to a Firefighter on the weekend, here's some ideas from real calls they could use that would be infinitely more interesting than that lame 'chase'

- Called to remove woman stuck on toilet in the smallest room ever that they still can't work out how she got in there.

- HIghrise (granted in my town that's five floors up) the resident hooker had put grease all over her balcony to stop people breaking in....they went ass over tit trying to break in.

-Called to break in to apartment when the resident couldn't be roused. He checked him, seemed dead, turned around to call for paramedics & when he turned back the guy was standing up beside him - scared the crap out of him.

Any of these types of calls...perhaps a whole episode where they go to one crazy call after another might liven this show up a bit, because it's stale.

[dovegrey]

9 hours ago, spunky said:

You’re welcome. 😊

You would think that since the guy who plays Tony is an actual firefighter, that the writers and Derek Haas would draw from his experience. At this point it’s just lazy writing.

Someone on Twitter once asked Tony if he has any say in the storylines, or if they consult with him at all, and he said something like "no, that's why we have advisors." I can't imagine what it would be like, though, to get scripts like these and have to keep my mouth shut as a real firefighter, let alone a real Squad guy. 

But I rewatched the chase scene, and Tony was only shown driving when it was a legit call. After it became the chase, they only showed Severide, Cruz, Casey, Kidd, Herrmann, and ambo. Tony was one of the drivers, and you'd think they'd show him at least once. I wonder if he couldn't/wouldn't film that.

Also, as I rewatched it, I caught how dumb it was for Main to return Truck 81 to quarters. Engine 20 and Squad 1 ended up responding to a two-story fire with multiple trapped victims, while Main canceled the first-due ladder company with the aerial and roof vent crew (which is what NJRadioGuy is saying, too, I believe). Beyond the fact that the fire would still need all of those rigs except Squad 3 in the real world, this is yet another example of how the writers handwave their own in-universe rules to manufacture their plot junk. So, sure, Haas reeeeeaaaallllly wanted a Fast and the Furious storyline with the firetrucks, and he  needed all of 51 available for that....so, have it AFTER the call. Or just don't do it all - even better!

[spunky]

3 hours ago, Guildford said:

The show is one big Ego stroke for Haas who obviously lives in Twitter land where they constantly blow sunshine up his ass. It's getting cringeworthy tbh.

I was talking to a Firefighter on the weekend, here's some ideas from real calls they could use that would be infinitely more interesting than that lame 'chase'

- Called to remove woman stuck on toilet in the smallest room ever that they still can't work out how she got in there.

- HIghrise (granted in my town that's five floors up) the resident hooker had put grease all over her balcony to stop people breaking in....they went ass over tit trying to break in.

-Called to break in to apartment when the resident couldn't be roused. He checked him, seemed dead, turned around to call for paramedics & when he turned back the guy was standing up beside him - scared the crap out of him.

Any of these types of calls...perhaps a whole episode where they go to one crazy call after another might liven this show up a bit, because it's stale.

Exactly. I went to grad school with a bunch of first responders, and the stories they told me are closer to what you just wrote. I’m not expecting the show to be 100% real, they can at least aim for 65%.

[spunky]

56 minutes ago, dovegrey said:

Someone on Twitter once asked Tony if he has any say in the storylines, or if they consult with him at all, and he said something like "no, that's why we have advisors." I can't imagine what it would be like, though, to get scripts like these and have to keep my mouth shut as a real firefighter, let alone a real Squad guy. 

But I rewatched the chase scene, and Tony was only shown driving when it was a legit call. After it became the chase, they only showed Severide, Cruz, Casey, Kidd, Herrmann, and ambo. Tony was one of the drivers, and you'd think they'd show him at least once. I wonder if he couldn't/wouldn't film that.

Also, as I rewatched it, I caught how dumb it was for Main to return Truck 81 to quarters. Engine 20 and Squad 1 ended up responding to a two-story fire with multiple trapped victims, while Main canceled the first-due ladder company with the aerial and roof vent crew (which is what NJRadioGuy is saying, too, I believe). Beyond the fact that the fire would still need all of those rigs except Squad 3 in the real world, this is yet another example of how the writers handwave their own in-universe rules to manufacture their plot junk. So, sure, Haas reeeeeaaaallllly wanted a Fast and the Furious storyline with the firetrucks, and he  needed all of 51 available for that....so, have it AFTER the call. Or just don't do it all - even better!

These writers along with Haas are living in dream world. 

[Ailianna]

17 hours ago, dovegrey said:

Gallo/ParamedicLady barely made any sense. The woman (Violet?) was PIC, but she and Gallo acted like they'd just come out of the Academy together. Even Shay wasn't eligible to be PIC in season 2, and she'd been a paramedic for probably 3 years by then. Either the writers/costumers don't know/care, or Gallo was a candidate for a while before Casey poached him. (I'm going with don't know/don't care, because, when Brett was gone earlier this season, either there was no PIC or it was Foster, who hasn't been a paramedic that long.)

I'm embarrassed to admit this, but I'm a nosy data person, and I'm procrastinating on a project, and so I looked... 60% of this season's episodes have involved an investigation of some sort (including OFI), while 64% of season 7's episodes included investigations. Remember in the old seasons, when the characters got jumpy when someone checked in on a victim or followed-up on a call? I miss that. 

I'm sure you know this, but Shay died and has been off the show for years (still missed though).  Sylvie Brett is the blonde paramedic on now.

I was paying so much attention while watching that I didn't even realize there was a car chase.

[dovegrey]

50 minutes ago, Ailianna said:

I'm sure you know this, but Shay died and has been off the show for years (still missed though).  Sylvie Brett is the blonde paramedic on now.

I was paying so much attention while watching that I didn't even realize there was a car chase.

Yep. I was talking about Shay.

[Ailianna]

Sorry. I quoted the wrong post!

On 1/9/2020 at 1:07 PM, iMonrey said:

It seemed like Foster's issue with Shay just came out of nowhere. I swear the writers really struggle to come up with material for a lot of these characters. 

 

[NJRadioGuy]

3 hours ago, dovegrey said:

Also, as I rewatched it, I caught how dumb it was for Main to return Truck 81 to quarters. Engine 20 and Squad 1 ended up responding to a two-story fire with multiple trapped victims, while Main canceled the first-due ladder company with the aerial and roof vent crew (which is what NJRadioGuy is saying, too, I believe). Beyond the fact that the fire would still need all of those rigs except Squad 3 in the real world

You rewatched this? My deepest condolences.

And yeah, a working house fire in an urban neighborhood, with entrapment noted, handled by just one engine company. Uh huh. I mean I guess it's possible in a desperate situation if you can throw a ground ladder and somehow open the roof, but that's 2 FFs right there, leaving one on the pump and one on the nozzle. And that's assuming they've already taken the hydrant before going to work on the roof. If they can get horizontal ventilation to work from a top-floor window after going in, but before starting a primary search, then maybe? Still a fools' errand that has the potential to lead to a Very Bad Outcome.

A heavy rescue wouldn't be necessary for that kind of job, I don't suspect, but I'd guess at least 3 trucks, at a bare minimum. One to vent, one for the searches (along with interior attack engine companies), one for accountability and/or FF rescue (FAST truck in FDNY parlance; not sure what CFD calls it).

[AnnA]

I really liked this episode and watched it a few times.