S06:E01: I Will Survive

[ClareWalks]

Honestly, I wouldn't bother getting yet another painful surgery just to get labia minora. They're not the most flashy part of the vulva anyway. Certainly not worth paying $20K or whatever to acquire.

[PrincessPurrsALot]

One of the issues with the now ubiquity of porn is the "ideal vagina"; that is, an aesthetic standard is being established.  While in reality there is a great variation in the appearance of genitals, a more restrictive ideal of what people want to see exists.  There is a major increase in genital plastic surgery for aesthetics purposes.  It used to be that genital surgery was only done for issues of not having normal function (e.g., no vaginal opening) or discomfort (extended labia minora).  

While Jazz talked about having the "perfect vagina", I think that part of that was how the heck do you discuss what you would like to see when you are making a major change to your appearance?  Of course we all would like perfect.  However, we get older and learn there is no perfect.  (Or at least most of us do.  There are always the plastic surgery addicts on Botched.) She now wants a vulva that appearance wise fits within norms and to not deal with pain.  It is a shame that it was such a difficult road getting there.  She now has realistic, albeit somewhat sad, expectations.  

[possibilities]

I still don't know which twin is which, but I did like that one of her brothers told her every vulva looks different and that Dr Ting also said that there is a lot of acceptable variation. I think a lot of women need to hear that.

[SunnyBeBe]

I'm still very confused about the hormone thing and whether Jazz still takes hormones. What would happen if she doesn't and do they prevent her from having a libido.  I can't imagine not having an real sex drive.  She says she wants to have orgasms, but, isn't there yet.  ????  I don't get it. This was a problem before the surgery too.  

[Bastet]

3 hours ago, possibilities said:

I still don't know which twin is which, but I did like that one of her brothers told her every vulva looks different and that Dr Ting also said that there is a lot of acceptable variation. I think a lot of women need to hear that.

I tout this whenever it's relevant, because I agree: Me and My Vulva.  Pictures of 100 vulvas, the third in photographer Laura Dodsworth's series showing some of the variety among body parts (the first was breasts, then penises).  The subjects are self selecting, but the project still shows a far more diverse range of shapes and sizes than seen in traditional media or porn.

[gingerella]

Hiya @J. Matazz! I always appreciate you sharing your own experience, and I know that it must be difficult sometimes to read our frustrated postings about Jazz and her family (Jeanette in particular) since you have a personal relationship with them. So thank you for continuing to participate in this thread. I think we’ve probably learned a lot more about this process from you than we have from this show. Thank you for that.

[mamadrama]

7 hours ago, possibilities said:

I still don't know which twin is which, but I did like that one of her brothers told her every vulva looks different and that Dr Ting also said that there is a lot of acceptable variation. I think a lot of women need to hear that.

I sat here and Googled that stuff last night and in my poor man's survey of the interwebs, I learned that there are at least 9 "normal" types out there. Interesting reading, but it embarrassed the hell out of my 12yo son when he came in and caught me.

[lettsjetts]

8 hours ago, PrincessPurrsALot said:

One of the issues with the now ubiquity of porn is the "ideal vagina"; that is, an aesthetic standard is being established.  While in reality there is a great variation in the appearance of genitals, a more restrictive ideal of what people want to see exists.  There is a major increase in genital plastic surgery for aesthetics purposes.  It used to be that genital surgery was only done for issues of not having normal function (e.g., no vaginal opening) or discomfort (extended labia minora).  

 

I read this article the other day and it made me so sad: 

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-40410459

-Some experts fear that pornography and images viewed through social media are leading young girls to have unrealistic perceptions of how their genitals should look.

-Anna - not her real name - considered having labiaplasty from the age of 14.

"I just picked up from somewhere that it wasn't neat enough or tidy enough and I think I wanted it to be smaller.

"People around me were watching porn and I just had this idea that it should be symmetrical and not sticking out.

😢😩

[iwasish]

22 hours ago, retired watcher said:

It seems she is taking a gap year to recenter before starting Harvard.

She’s taking a gap year to spend obsessing about her less than perfect pussy.  And what will the family talk about over dinner and family functions if the doctors are ever able to get it to pass inspection? I can’t wait till she has to take it on a trial run... will the whole family be outside the bedroom door, with their ears pressed against it? 

(I missed most of last season and haven’t caught up, has she had sex with Amir, or anyone of either sex?)

 

 

[iwasish]

8 hours ago, possibilities said:

I still don't know which twin is which, but I did like that one of her brothers told her every vulva looks different and that Dr Ting also said that there is a lot of acceptable variation. I think a lot of women need to hear that.

Just wondering, has any woman ever had a guy refuse to have sex with her because of the appearance of her vulva? Has any guy ever told her he was repulsed by it, that it was deformed? I  truly doubt most men aren’t all concerned with much other than getting in there and getting off. 

[gingerella]

51 minutes ago, iwasish said:

(I missed most of last season and haven’t caught up, has she had sex with Amir, or anyone of either sex?)

Watching last season would probably be helpful to getting you all caught up.

[iwasish]

3 hours ago, gingerella said:

Watching last season would probably be helpful to getting you all caught up.

Will do. 

[Love2dance]

9 hours ago, gingerella said:

Hiya @J. Matazz! I always appreciate you sharing your own experience, and I know that it must be difficult sometimes to read our frustrated postings about Jazz and her family (Jeanette in particular) since you have a personal relationship with them. So thank you for continuing to participate in this thread. I think we’ve probably learned a lot more about this process from you than we have from this show. Thank you for that.

Agree, 1000%. Thank you, @J. Matazz.

[Dobian]

On 1/29/2020 at 6:47 AM, winsomeone said:

At this point, Jazz really needs to make her life private.

This show is now a snore like other TLC shows - Little People Big World, Sister Wives, 90 variations of 90 Day Fiance - where it's no longer about the main premise really but about people enjoying their indulgent reality tv lifestyle.  And when they do address the transgender part it iisn't presented in a very honest way and sugar coats it.

[msrachelj]

On 1/29/2020 at 12:57 PM, Honey said:

Why would you think they're rich?  Greg is an attorney, and Jeanette doesn't have a career outside the home, that's upper middle class at best.  Then add in all the kids to put through school, and I'm not surprised they're still doing the show for the extra money.

Oh, excuse me. Upper middle class to me IS rich, or at least on the rich scale. Not even talking about the filthy rich, just the "don't have to worry about paying the bills, take a vacating anywhere you want, pay for surgeries that insurance doesn't cover, live in an expensive house, and drive new nice cars, etc. rich. "

[msrachelj]

On 1/29/2020 at 4:55 PM, kicotan said:

I could be totally wrong but the OR scenes looked staged-like a re-enactment of sorts, maybe.  I’m not a surgeon, but do surgeons typically wear eyebrow pencil, eyeliner and dangly earrings during surgery with no shield only a pair of eyeglasses in between?

I think the big takeaway could be

1. surgery doesn’t come with a guarantee
2. surgery isn’t going to cure all of your problems
3. women’s bodies don’t all respond the same to identical sexual stimuli
4. no one is guaranteed an orgasm
5. fixation on the imperfection of one body part is a slippery slope to BDD
6. healthy boundaries with family members is a good idea

I was thinking the same thing. What surgeon would wear (dangly even!) earrings and make up  into surgery. Isn't it suppose to be as sterile as possible. I kept thinking "what if her earring or part of it falls off into Jazz's hootchie?!"  And more important , the dr. fucked up the first time, so you have the same doctor perform surgery again. Enter: the arguing in the operating room. It's  a miracle this girl is alive!

[VioletNevermind]

Well.  I don’t know about you guys, but my father (in his 70s) would never, ever have sat in the presence of his wife, daughter, and grandkids and referred to the labia as “the gateway to heaven” or whatever the hell he said.  He wouldn’t have discussed sex organs of any kind or their associated pleasures.  I have also never discussed my orgasms or lack thereof with my brother.  I don’t view this as prude.  I view it as normal, healthy boundaries.  It’s one thing to make “naughty” jokes (guilty as charged), but this family takes it to a ridiculous level.  Different strokes and all, but they’re so effing inappropriate that it makes me kind of sick, to the point where I’m not sure I can continue to watch.  From the gory surgical descriptions to the outrageous oversharing among siblings and made-for-TV “friends,“ it’s just too damn much.

When we were first introduced to little Jazz many years ago, her story touched my heart and her family’s devotion to her gender confirmation journey impressed me.  Jazz had no clue how lucky she was to have such love in her life and frankly, that’s okay.  It could almost be said that a loving, supportive family should be taken for granted when you’re very young.  It just seems like it’s gone off the deep end.  The family is held hostage by Jazz and her constant me-me-me focus on her genitals.  The preview commercial for this season where she’s sitting in front of her assembled family and sobbing about her struggle is painful to watch.  Every face in the room looks uncomfortable, but I would imagine that it’s just par for the course at this point.  The entire family revolves around Jazz.  It’s a good thing she’s the youngest because any child unfortunate enough to have been born after her would have been hard pressed to receive even half the attention she always has.

I’ll give it another week, but please, God, let me not have to hear the following words: stitches, separation, and excise.  I know I’m already a pretty squeamish person, but I find myself wincing through entire episodes of this show.  In other words, what else is going on in your life, Jazz?!

Edited February 1, 2020 by Suzy Rhapsody

[possibilities]

I tell myself that the TV SHOW revolves around Jazz. Hopefully, the family itself does not.

[crazycatlady58]

On 1/29/2020 at 8:29 AM, iwasish said:

As far as my dad knows, I have no clitoris. 

And I am sure you are both happier with  that.

[Bastet]

On 2/1/2020 at 5:43 PM, possibilities said:

I tell myself that the TV SHOW revolves around Jazz. Hopefully, the family itself does not.

Yeah, it is called I Am Jazz, not Meet the Jenningses.

Granted, she's the baby, the only one left at home, has needed a lot more medical care than the other kids, and has been an activist (including traveling for speaking engagements, on which her mom had to accompany her) since childhood, so I'm sure it is and always has been unbalanced in real life.  But I doubt the family's focus is as lopsided as the show's; while show life is centered on what's going on with Jazz, in real life, there's a lot of stuff going on with all the family members and attention is more spread out. 

Edited February 4, 2020 by Bastet

[Granny58]

On 1/31/2020 at 5:19 PM, msrachelj said:

Oh, excuse me. Upper middle class to me IS rich, or at least on the rich scale. Not even talking about the filthy rich, just the "don't have to worry about paying the bills, take a vacating anywhere you want, pay for surgeries that insurance doesn't cover, live in an expensive house, and drive new nice cars, etc. rich. "

I always assumed they were rich too.  

[Visaman666]

On 1/30/2020 at 8:56 AM, SunnyBeBe said:

I'm still very confused about the hormone thing and whether Jazz still takes hormones. What would happen if she doesn't and do they prevent her from having a libido.  I can't imagine not having an real sex drive.  She says she wants to have orgasms, but, isn't there yet.  ????  I don't get it. This was a problem before the surgery too.  

Yes, when you start with Estrogen you are on it for life, if you want to maintain a femme body. There have been cases of detransistioning, but there is a point of no return.

 After SRS surgery, there is no longer any need to take Spirolactone. And yes, the libido is shut down, at least the masculine libido is gone.

15 hours ago, Granny58 said:

I always assumed they were rich too.  

They are "comfortable."

[SunnyBeBe]

2 hours ago, Visaman666 said:

Yes, when you start with Estrogen you are on it for life, if you want to maintain a femme body. There have been cases of detransistioning, but there is a point of no return.

 After SRS surgery, there is no longer any need to take Spirolactone. And yes, the libido is shut down, at least the masculine libido is gone.

They are "comfortable."

Oh my.....it's difficult to digest.  

[xls]

On 1/30/2020 at 7:38 AM, mamadrama said:

I understand that it's not the same and that it means something different to her, but homegirl has already spent more time thinking about the aesthetics of her vagina in one episode than I have in all my 40 years. I had no idea until recently that there was such a thing as an aesthetically pleasing "ideal" vagina. Now I'm afraid to look at mine. Too much pressure on the poor thing. 

Myself, I don't really give a sh!t what mine looks like😏

[Nofo mom]

21 hours ago, xls said:

Myself, I don't really give a sh!t what mine looks like😏

Me either!  I was just discussing this show with a friend the other day and said that I am sure mine looks way worse that Jazz's could ever look!  

[Visaman666]

On 2/3/2020 at 7:26 AM, SunnyBeBe said:

Oh my.....it's difficult to digest.  

The Spirolactone pills are, yes. I am taking two a day now. They want me.up to 4 a day, and eventually maybe 6 to 8 a day. Two give me an upset stomach. 

[all4mom2]

On 1/29/2020 at 4:43 PM, Otter said:

Mom has been feeding her a lie her entire life about perfection.  By what standard?  Cousin Mindy or Cindy (whatever her name is)? 

Cousin Debbie, who happened to be a counselor to the transgendered and convinced Jeanette that Jazz would commit suicide if not allowed to transition at age two.  Specifically, Deborah Eve Babyatsky-Grayson, PhD, LMHC | AASECT:: American Association of Sexuality Educators, Counselors and Therapists.  She made Jazz the subject of her doctoral dissertation (it's viewable online) and has made several appearances on the show, advising other children and their parents as well as continuing to minister to Jazz and Jeanette themselves.  She also sits - or did - on the board of the Jennings' Transkids Purple Rainbow Foundation. 

Jeanette may be pulling Jazz's strings, but Debbie was the first to pull Jeanette's.

(Late to the party, but TLC has been rerunning last season leading to the next.)

[all4mom2]

On 1/30/2020 at 4:38 AM, mamadrama said:

...in all my 40 years. I had no idea until recently that there was such a thing as an aesthetically pleasing "ideal" vagina. Now I'm afraid to look at mine. Too much pressure on the poor thing. 

I mean, there is literally nothing to see.  It collapses upon itself until in use.  Does Jazz still think "vagina" is female external genitalia and has no one yet corrected her?

Edited October 8, 2021 by all4mom2