S15.E06: Golden Time

[gonzosgirrl]

10 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

I thought she survived the Banshee as a baby because she was deaf?

Oh, maybe you're right. My bad (I've blocked so much of the show out, lol).

ETA: From SuperWiki

Eileen Leahy is an Irish-born hunter. Thirty years ago her father was killed by a banshee and her mother sacrificed herself to protect Eileen by performing a spell that sent the banshee away. A hunter named Lillian O'Grady found the infant Eileen in her crib with her ears bleeding, having gone deaf from the banshee's piercing scream.

Edited November 25, 2019 by gonzosgirrl

[SueB]

If she was going to be able to hear, I would have expected a baby, not the grown woman.  It brought her back as whole as she was before she died. Works for me.

[gonzosgirrl]

5 minutes ago, SueB said:

If she was going to be able to hear, I would have expected a baby, not the grown woman.  It brought her back as whole as she was before she died. Works for me.

It healed the Hellhound wounds, so having it heal her hearing as well wouldn't have been so far-fetched as 95% of the post-14x20 storytelling as been.

Just to be clear, I have no issue with it either way, and they couldn't have done with the same actress, but I don't think it would have been an insult to the entire deaf community had they done so.

[Aeryn13]

19 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Oh, maybe you're right. My bad (I've blocked so much of the show out, lol).

ETA: From SuperWiki

Eileen Leahy is an Irish-born hunter. Thirty years ago her father was killed by a banshee and her mother sacrificed herself to protect Eileen by performing a spell that sent the banshee away. A hunter named Lillian O'Grady found the infant Eileen in her crib with her ears bleeding, having gone deaf from the banshee's piercing scream.

Ah, thanks. 

[PAForrest]

On 11/21/2019 at 9:30 PM, Bergamot said:

I didn't realize that Dean was not going to be part of this episode, except minimally. It's a situation that automatically equals a minimally interesting episode, for me. I hope that this means there is an episode coming up that is mostly Dean.

I know. It makes the loss of anyone basically pointless and meaningless. And this resurrection bugs me especially because they could do nothing to help Kevin.

Not that I dislike Eileen, either the character or the actress. But she was just not significant enough a character, in the larger scheme of things on the show, for her to be the one and only soul saved after being sent to Hell. (Unless, I guess, she ends up as Sam's happy ending, as some are speculating.)

I did like the moment when Dean says to Eileen, "It's about time," and she responds with this big, mischievous, urchin grin. It made me smile. I do like this actress.

There has been some horrible background music for this season, hasn't there? I mean, some incredibly bad, scene-ruining stuff. I wish it would stop.

I have not missed Castiel, and I thought his part of the episode was boring and a waste of time that could have been spent on better characters.

Word to all this, and I thought it was an appropriate post to respond to since I just got back from the JaxCon and hadn't posted here yet. But it's a good thing I didn't because literally I was forewarned that there was essentially no Dean, so my traveling companion and I FF'd to the ... what was it, 2 minutes, less than that? - miniscule Dean parts and ignored the rest before we headed out the door to Jax. Yes, the next episode better be Dean-heavy and sans almost all Sam, because it's only fair.

Yet I can answer the music question because this came out in Jensen's M&G - and I don't think it's a big secret kind of answer because it was a natural flow to answering about the teaser to episode #4 again. Essentially Jensen said this season the show has no music budget - it's in the toilet. And that's because the arm of WB who used to kick in every year for music didn't this year. I'm guessing probably because it's the last season and WB feels it's money is better spent on other projects. So if it feels like the budget has been slashed, that's because it has.

Therefore, yes, they're using a lot of stock in-house non-descript music and are saving their pennies to be able to use some actual rock music toward the end.

On 11/21/2019 at 8:48 PM, gonzosgirrl said:

Loved Dean's jammies. That's all I got. That might be the most boring eposode of this show,  ever. 

Don't care what anyone says, Dean energizes the show.

Agreed and agreed.

[gonzosgirrl]

That is really interesting about the music budget @PAForrest  I guess on its face it makes sense, financially. But what disrespectful way to end a show that's been the lynch-pin of your network since day one. Seriously, it's twenty more episodes - do them right. A-holes.

[Lemuria]

44 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

That is really interesting about the music budget @PAForrest  I guess on its face it makes sense, financially. But what disrespectful way to end a show that's been the lynch-pin of your network since day one. Seriously, it's twenty more episodes - do them right. A-holes.

Thing is, doing them right would have meant firing Dabb, Singer, the Nepotism Duo and basically all of the writers before the season started. 

[Ray Adverb]

22 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I agree with you. I understand why 'curing' a deaf person would be unacceptable on the whole. But in show, Eileen was not born deaf, her hearing was taken from her as a result of the Banshee's scream, so having it restored by this supernatural resurrection would have been fitting. 

But even if the character were born deaf, it would make sense if her disembodied soul was not deaf.  I mean, that's kind of what real world theology says.

[Bobcatkitten]

Sad to hear about the music budget. Frankly I think it's just them covering all these other actors' pay they are bringing back every episode. Instead of just 3 big salaries they have 3 big salaries and a crap ton of smaller ones, which means less for everything else. 

[juppschmitz]

6 hours ago, Ray Adverb said:

But even if the character were born deaf, it would make sense if her disembodied soul was not deaf.  I mean, that's kind of what real world theology says.

Well, the simple Doylist reason is that the actual actress is actually deaf 🤷🏻‍♀️

[trudysmom]

8 hours ago, Lemuria said:

Thing is, doing them right would have meant firing Dabb, Singer, the Nepotism Duo and basically all of the writers before the season started. 

Can I give this about a thousand likes?  

Also, I have not seen this episode.  I just couldn't face it and from the postings here I made the right choice.  First time for me, to intentionally skip an episode.  

Edited November 26, 2019 by trudysmom

[auntvi]

11 hours ago, PAForrest said:

Essentially Jensen said this season the show has no music budget - it's in the toilet. And that's because the arm of WB who used to kick in every year for music didn't this year. I'm guessing probably because it's the last season and WB feels it's money is better spent on other projects. So if it feels like the budget has been slashed, that's because it has.

That may be what Jensen heard, but the music was crappy seasons 13 and 14 too. CW or WB must have cut the budget for music a couple years ago, I doubt it has anything to do with this being the last season. In fact, the last season should be when they splurge.

[Ray Adverb]

The whole Eileen character was a bad idea.  Okay it makes thematic sense that someone could be deafened from a siren and maybe go on a revenge quest to kill that siren.  But a deaf person as a hunter is just ridiculous.  Human hunters are already at a disadvantage due to their fragility compared to monsters.  But then to add the handicap of deafness, making it incredibly easy for even the clumsiest monster to sneak up on you, and it strains belief.

[ILoveReading]

4 minutes ago, Ray Adverb said:

The whole Eileen character was a bad idea.  Okay it makes thematic sense that someone could be deafened from a siren and maybe go on a revenge quest to kill that siren.  But a deaf person as a hunter is just ridiculous.  Human hunters are already at a disadvantage due to their fragility compared to monsters.  But then to add the handicap of deafness, making it incredibly easy for even the clumsiest monster to sneak up on you, and it strains belief.

I agree.  As tacky as the way they killed her was, it probably what would happen to her hunting with that disability. 

[FlickChick]

22 hours ago, auntvi said:

That may be what Jensen heard, but the music was crappy seasons 13 and 14 too. CW or WB must have cut the budget for music a couple years ago, I doubt it has anything to do with this being the last season. In fact, the last season should be when they splurge.

Very, very true. I also noticed that only one of the original music guys who wrote the themes and background is still there (or was last time I looked). Someone else is now doing some of that composing. Or like everything else in this show, it could be Dabb/Singer who is dictating the change of style/volume.

[AwesomO4000]

14 hours ago, Ray Adverb said:

The whole Eileen character was a bad idea.  Okay it makes thematic sense that someone could be deafened from a siren and maybe go on a revenge quest to kill that siren.  But a deaf person as a hunter is just ridiculous.  Human hunters are already at a disadvantage due to their fragility compared to monsters.  But then to add the handicap of deafness, making it incredibly easy for even the clumsiest monster to sneak up on you, and it strains belief.

14 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

I agree.  As tacky as the way they killed her was, it probably what would happen to her hunting with that disability. 

I may be remembering incorrectly, but I was thinking that until Eileen met the Winchesters that maybe Eileen wasn't a regular hunter. I thought she specialized in hunting Banshee, in which case her being deaf would be an advantage rather than a disadvantage.

[Female83]

4 hours ago, AwesomO4000 said:

I may be remembering incorrectly, but I was thinking that until Eileen met the Winchesters that maybe Eileen wasn't a regular hunter. I thought she specialized in hunting Banshee, in which case her being deaf would be an advantage rather than a disadvantage.

She was hunting Banshees or at least the one who killed her parents. 

[azam]

My least fave episode this season so far.

When I get to watch the video, i literally fast forward the Castiel's hunting part. So boring.!

I don't like they brought back Eileen either. What is the point? And Sam and Eileen have ZERO chemistry. Seemed cringey on all the scenes they together. Please make they are the endgame. Please...

Not much of Dean on the  episode was kinda disappointed.

[hunenka]

I finally watched the entire episode (not just the Dean bits), and came across Sam saying this to Eileen: I've been there, too uh, Hell. A long time ago. You try and forget, but it gets inside you.

Why, Meredith Glynn, why? “You try and forget, but it gets inside you?” What a surprise, and what an unexpected, deep thought!

It almost makes me feel bad for Jared and Sam, having to say dumb, banal stuff like that about something that is, on one level, perfectly obvious, and on another level, something that shouldn’t even be possible to put into words, something so horrible that it’s unthinkable, unnamable.

Imagine how much powerful Sam and Eileen’s bonding over Hell would’ve been if Sam had been unable to say anything besides maybe “I’ve been there too” and then trailed off, lost in the horror, or better yet, cut himself off because he can’t even go there in his thoughts.

The show’s tendency to spell everything out for the audience is taking away so much weight and depth from what the characters are going through.

[ahrtee]

7 hours ago, hunenka said:

I finally watched the entire episode (not just the Dean bits), and came across Sam saying this to Eileen: I've been there, too uh, Hell. A long time ago. You try and forget, but it gets inside you.

Why, Meredith Glynn, why? “You try and forget, but it gets inside you?” What a surprise, and what an unexpected, deep thought!

It almost makes me feel bad for Jared and Sam, having to say dumb, banal stuff like that about something that is, on one level, perfectly obvious, and on another level, something that shouldn’t even be possible to put into words, something so horrible that it’s unthinkable, unnamable.

Imagine how much powerful Sam and Eileen’s bonding over Hell would’ve been if Sam had been unable to say anything besides maybe “I’ve been there too” and then trailed off, lost in the horror, or better yet, cut himself off because he can’t even go there in his thoughts.

The show’s tendency to spell everything out for the audience is taking away so much weight and depth from what the characters are going through.

Actually, that was the line that pissed me off most, and not for the same reason.  

Sam, honey, you weren't in Hell.  At least, not the same hell as Eileen or Dean.  You didn't have the same experiences.  You were in solitary confinement, locked away with two insane jailers as constant company.   You were important, not one of the crowd, surrounded by endless screaming and begging and watching others being tortured.  You didn't lose yourself or your identity.  Your hell was more personal.   Lucifer wanted you to stay yourself, so you would know what was going on.  Didn't Ruby say something like, "that's what hell is...losing yourself."  

I'm not saying that wasn't worse than the "real" hell, just different.  So, really, you can't understand their hell any more than they can understand yours.  

ETA: that's not to say that I don't understand Sam trying to help Eileen by saying that he understands, just that's it's kind of disingenuous. 

Edited November 30, 2019 by ahrtee

[Pondlass1]

Dean was in hell for 40 years. But he’s fine now...  a few grey cells gone and must be corrected by Sam, but fine...

Unfortunately no one involved with the series- except Jensen- remembers this tragic fact. 😡

[The Companion]

On 11/21/2019 at 8:40 PM, Katy M said:

Good point. It's not as if they need to breathe, which is the main point of choking someone.

Hee. I honestly didn't think about that and it now makes the entire scene sort of unintentionally hilarious to me. 

On 11/22/2019 at 12:26 AM, tennisgurl said:

 

I did like seeing Rowenas place and the spells she cast to keep people out of her stuff, and that she let the guys in, and not dysfunctional witch families out to steal all of her best spells. The giant painting of herself was an especially nice Rowena touch. 

 

Something about the painting and the better tour of her place made me smile. I loved Rowena. Even bad Rowena. 

On 11/22/2019 at 10:05 AM, ahrtee said:

That's Eileen's fate.  Now that she's back in a body, so Sam can sleep with her and then watch her die (instead of offscreen like last time) and feel horribly guilty about it.  

Ugh. You are probably right and I am not happy about it. Someone needs to explain that bringing characters back doesn't undo the fridging, especially if they do it again.

On 11/23/2019 at 12:06 PM, Bergamot said:

Yeah, I have to say that it does seem a bit much. Dean had a even longer, more intense, although very strange and conflicted relationship with Crowley, but I would have thought it weird if he had been weepy and depressed over him when Crowley sacrificed himself. And it's not like it was for Sam when Charlie died, for example. Or it doesn't seem to me that it should be, from what we saw happen on the show. I feel as if his reaction might be more like a set up for Future Plot Points in episodes to follow, which is why is seems, let's say,  un-organic to me.

Rowena was actually a more interesting and complicated character, I think, than she is currently being viewed. It's like all her sharp edges have been sanded down and smoothed away so that she can be an acceptable object of grief for Sam. It is interesting now to think of how we first met her, when she had nailed hotel workers to the ceiling and was happily relaxing under their dead bodies. And how she then murdered a waiter in a horrible fashion for interfering with her lunch at a nice restaurant, and sacrificed as bait to save herself one of the women she had recruited.

But then, Rowena never pretended to be anything other than what she was. She was not selfless or loving; she always acted to please and protect herself, and did whatever she needed to do to gain and keep power. Specifically, magical power. It was all she really cared about, all that was important to her: being a powerful witch. Rowena made it absolutely clear that she served magic above all else. As she told Sam at the end,  "I don't care about anything enough to take my own life. Not you, your brother... not even the world. But I believe in prophecy. I believe in magic."

That's why I like the speculation that Rowena could someday end up as the Queen of Hell. I think it does the character a disservice to have her set on a pedestal by the show as a redeemed soul who nobly sacrificed herself to save the world after bonding with Sam. I just don't like the idea of her death serving as an inspiration for Sam -- it sounds too much like "fridging" her. I would rather think of her as someone who in the end remained true to what she served, which (as she once told Sam) was Magic, not God. And someone who would maybe find a witchy way to come back, because Rowena always did!

I agree with this. I love that she was always working for her own goals. It was something I thought they actually screwed up with Crowley. She ultimately died for her own reasons too, and I don't want to see that taken away. 

 

On 11/24/2019 at 7:04 AM, Aeryn13 said:

I agree, it would have an undercurrent of "hey, we fixed you so you are no longer damaged goods" instead of "nothing wrong with you beyond being dead".   

Yep. I think it would absolutely imply that being Deaf was inferior in some way. That her deafness required fixing. 

 

On 11/25/2019 at 10:39 AM, gonzosgirrl said:

It healed the Hellhound wounds, so having it heal her hearing as well wouldn't have been so far-fetched as 95% of the post-14x20 storytelling as been.

Just to be clear, I have no issue with it either way, and they couldn't have done with the same actress, but I don't think it would have been an insult to the entire deaf community had they done so.

I disagree, or at least the that many in the Deaf community would have had a huge problem with it. I am not a member of the community myself, but one of my best friends is a CODA. Many in the community struggle to be seen as whole and complete people. Look, for example, at the way many within the community see cochlear impants. Here is a pretty comprehensive explanation. 

https://time.com/76154/deaf-culture-cochlear-implants/?amp=true

In the end, I think it would have been an exceptionally controversial thing to do and it would certainly have offended many. 

 

EILEEN. I loved her and I am still pissed that they killed her off the way they did. I loved this episode, despite its faults. Apparently, I am an outlier, but I loved Rowena's apartment and Eileen. I even liked Cas actually getting to do something other than look sad. 

I even liked Sam as a witch, something I probably would have hated in theory.

Mostly, though, I am happy to see Eileen. I know they will fuck it up, but I am taking the win until they disappoint me again. 

[gonzosgirrl]

1 hour ago, The Companion said:

In the end, I think it would have been an exceptionally controversial thing to do and it would certainly have offended many. 

Yeah, so does having God be the universe's biggest douchebag - didn't stop them from doing it. And as much as I hate Dabb and pretty much everything about his seasons, I don't think it was done with the intention of insulting the couple billion Christians on the planet, any more than healing Eileen would have been intentionally insulting the deaf community. They had paralyzed Bobby get up and walk again.

Gah, I can't wait til I never have to think about these episodes again.

Edited August 27, 2020 by gonzosgirrl

[Katy M]

3 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

They had paralyzed Bobby get up and walk again.

The major difference with that is that Jim Beaver was never paralyzed.

[gonzosgirrl]

11 minutes ago, Katy M said:

The major difference with that is that Jim Beaver was never paralyzed.

The optics are still there though.

[The Companion]

55 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Yeah, so does having God be the universe's biggest douchebag - didn't stop them from doing it. And as much as I hate Dabb and pretty much everything about his seasons, I don't think it was done with the intention of insulting the couple billion Christians on the planet, any more than healing Eileen would have been intentionally insulting the deaf community. They had paralyzed Bobby get up and walk again.

Gah, I can't wait til I never have to think about these episodes again.

Oh, I am sure they backed into the better choice.