S06.E05: Daisy

[thewhiteowl]

When Daisy is implicated in the leak of hacked information Liz must decide who to believe and how far she'll go to save her presidency. 

[MerBearHou]

I’ve felt this way for almost the entire series — I HATE watching the McCords eat, crunch, chew, slurp ice cream, etc on TV and Lordy, they eat often.  I’ll comment later on this episode but I had to get this off my chest.

Edited November 4, 2019 by MerBearHou

[bros402]

That was an episode. I don't understand why they are getting rid of Daisy now, but uhhh trying to make the stuff happening IRL into the show has one flaw - the stuff IRL keeps getting crazier and crazier. I would've preferred if they didn't do a "ripped from the headlines" final season - especially since they went in knowing it was the last season.

[NUguy514]

What the fuck was that?  In his first scene, Mike B. is almost gleefully haranguing Bess to fire Daisy; in his last scene, he says he'll miss her?  Fuck off, you asshole.  I actually think that's more Rahm's fault as an actor because it read as completely insincere after being so adamant and uncaring in the first scene.

Dear Henry,

It must be so nice to live in the black and white world of incredible privilege you live in where things are either right or wrong and you get to be the Grand High Morality Master and adjudicate those decisions for all of us.  You're not sure Bess can trust Daisy?  Fuck. you.  Daisy's sense of morality/ethics/whatever is not lesser than Bess's or yours, you asshole, and she made a decision that she thought was right.  And, as anyone with any sense in their heads realized, she did not leak that Miller information.

I hate you.

NUguy514

The whole storyline felt implausible and reeked of attempts by production to cut costs by jettisoning one of their contract actors.

Yeah, I'm infuriated.

[kwnyc]

Ouch. I hate that Daisy had to be Don, Jr. Underlining: if you receive oppo about the other side from a foreign actor (even though she thought the woman was from France), YOU CALL THE FBI.

And Dr. Arm Candy was right: Daisy did the wrong thing for the right reasons, but it was still a serious lapse. She was permanently tainted. (Though most likely, Daisy would get some kind of pundit/host job on a news show after a little time went by.)

They also set it up with the previous flashbacks that the story about the baby with the mistress didn't damage the other opponent too badly; it was Bess's bonding with the electorate that pushed her over the top.

Speaking of which: the guy in Virginia who hadn;t voted, and was crabby...would he REALLY have spoken that way to THE CURRENT PRESIDENT and one of the candidates? Giving the guy a ride to the polls was adorable. (And illegal in some states where they like their voter suppression.)

I don't get why we haven't seen the people who LOVE Bess...she's a first and has been shown to be a compassionate, empathetic leader. If I ran into our last president, I would burst into tears...and if I ever meet Hillary, I'll probably babble at her (and burst into tears).

But according to Senator Prison Break, she is polling at record lows. That doesn't jibe with a president who's gotten at least 2 huge bills passed and signed a treaty with Russia. (Unless Sen. Prison Break is making things up.)

We also got to see a more autocratic Bess: questioning whether the First Amendment should apply in the case of national security. And saying it really didn't have anything to do with her when her AG brought in a reporter and asked her to name a source. Did Bess really believe the reporter would do that? And facing the press with a reporter in jail wouldn't bring out great hostility in the press room?

But I didn't mind her reading the riot act to the reporter (edited to say that the reporter was Jenn Collella, Tony-nominated for "Come From Away.") Because I don't think you walk into the Oval Office and demand an apology like that. Still, Bess was on shaky ground accusing her of aiding the enemy, because the story turned out to be true, and whatever platform the reporter wrote for would have sourced the story with MANY confirmations before running with it.

Interesting that Russell felt that Daisy shouldn't be let go without a hearing: not so much because he wanted her to stay, but because it set a bad precedent for people to target the President's staff. He and Mike B seem to have a mutual respect for each other, and the last scene, where they are throwing darts at Sen. Prison Break's face, was nice.

Also, I had been wondering whether they'd find a way to get Keith Carradine to sing in this show...Pres. Dalton being only cast member with an Oscar for Best Song! I liked seeing ol' hippie Conrad, and I'm glad he's going to UNICEF. They are making more of a Jimmy Carter out of him than a guy who golfs and goes on corporate boards, but that goes along with Conrad's character as written.

Edited November 4, 2019 by kwnyc
Correction.

[Guest]

Loved seeing Conrad. The rest of it? Meh. 

And yeah, they got one high profile person in the administration to resign with the investigation, so they just decided they were done with investigating.  Um..... I know this is just a drama, but that is so outside the realms of likelihood.  Semi-forcing one resignation would likely embolden an investigation.

[Netfoot]

By Presidential decree if necessary, those reporters who threw down their passes would NEVER be allowed in the Whitehouse again.

And as for the one demanding an apology?  I'd be: "Apology? I'm having you taken down to Basement Nine Alpha and shot in the head! You're going to fertilize the Rose Garden. Unless..."

[Florinaldo]

Who'd've thunk? An episode in which Henry of all people is the voice of reason and political rationality. He was right that once Daisy decided not to report the incident to the FBI, she demonstrated her poor judgment and she became a liability for the President, not matter how noble her motives.

17 hours ago, NUguy514 said:

In his first scene, Mike B. is almost gleefully haranguing Bess to fire Daisy; in his last scene, he says he'll miss her?

No contradiction there in my view. It is his job to be forceful in laying out the harsh political reality of the situation and how Daisy might become an albatross for the administration. But that does not mean he will no miss her personally.

Even though she did a stupid thing for allegedly moral reasons, that does not stop her from being a likable person.

[KaveDweller]

I'm kind of wishing that they had just ended last season. I didn't really like the ending they gave Daisy, even though they tried to make it have a positive spin. Did they even give us an explanation for what happened to Matt?

I'm also not totally sure why Bess was getting blamed for the reporter going to jail. The DOJ is investigating her. Obviously she is not controlling what they do. But, I guess presidents get blamed for a lot.

[tvfanatic13]

Haven’t read these posts since the episode was not shown last night. I am in NY. Was it shown somewhere else?

[Dowel Jones]

Doesn't the issuance of a pardon have as a prerequisite the admission of guilt on the party being pardoned?  I can't see the reporter admitting to doing anything wrong.

[memememe76]

I HATED this episode. I don't care about the merits of characters' actions in this episode, why did the writers even put Daisy in this situation in the first place? Second episode in a row where a character of colour is let go because of illegal or dubious behaviour. Now Bess is surrounded by men, except her daughter.

And then they let Daisy go with another morality speech by Henry. HATE!

Talk about your poor optics. Makes me not want to watch the rest of the series.

Edited November 5, 2019 by memememe76

[KaveDweller]

23 minutes ago, tvfanatic13 said:

Haven’t read these posts since the episode was not shown last night. I am in NY. Was it shown somewhere else?

I am in the NY area too, I watched it on demand.

[Florinaldo]

1 hour ago, Dowel Jones said:

Doesn't the issuance of a pardon have as a prerequisite the admission of guilt on the party being pardoned?  I can't see the reporter admitting to doing anything wrong.

Admission of guilt is part of the policy requirements regarding pardons, but it is not a condition stemming from the Constitution which does not impose conditions on the President (other than it must be for a federal offense and cannot apply in cases of an official's impeachment). The President can ignore the policy since it is just a matter of guidelines; and some have done so. The writers did take pains to call it an "unconditional" pardon as if to refute in advance such objections.

Edited November 5, 2019 by Florinaldo

[Dowel Jones]

16 hours ago, kwnyc said:

Though most likely, Daisy would get some kind of pundit/host job on a news show after a little time went by.)

Indications are that she will appear in at least one more of the five remaining episodes.

16 hours ago, kwnyc said:

Speaking of which: the guy in Virginia who hadn;t voted, and was crabby...would he REALLY have spoken that way to THE CURRENT PRESIDENT and one of the candidates?

Personally?  Hell yes.

4 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

I'm also not totally sure why Bess was getting blamed for the reporter going to jail. The DOJ is investigating her.

Would the DA for that District ask the court to send her to jail for refusal to testify, or is that the province of the court alone?  Presumably, Federal District Attorneys act with the guidance of the DOJ, and he/she would not have requested sentencing without an okay from the Attorney General, who takes orders from the President.  That's how I would connect it.  That reporter just bollixed her chance of ever getting an exclusive from anyone in the White House on any story.  She will be lucky to even get a question answered during press briefings. 

16 hours ago, kwnyc said:

Still, Bess was on shaky ground accusing her of aiding the enemy, because the story turned out to be true, and whatever platform the reporter wrote for would have sourced the story with MANY confirmations before running with it.

(I'm not picking on you, honest)  Didn't the story run the day after she received the flash drive from the Iranian agent, or is my timeline off?  If so, the paper would have had the story for some time already, checking with other sources, and would, or should, have contacted the WH for comment.

[bros402]

3 hours ago, Florinaldo said:

Admission of guilt is part of the policy requirements regarding pardons, but it is not a condition stemming from the Constitution which does not impose conditions on the President (other than it must be for a federal offense and cannot apply in cases of an official's impeachment). The President can ignore the policy since it is just a matter of guidelines; and some have done so. The writers did take pains to call it an "unconditional" pardon as if to refute in advance such objections.

I believe there was a court case a century ago where they determined that in most cases, accepting a pardon is implying guilt - however, I think the core of that case was actually "Can a person decline a pardon?" - which the courts said "Yes" (I am pretty sure)

[shapeshifter]

14 hours ago, Florinaldo said:

Henry of all people is the voice of reason and political rationality. He was right that once Daisy decided not to report the incident to the FBI, she demonstrated her poor judgment and she became a liability for the President, not matter how noble her motives.

I generally don't mind Henry's moralizing, because I think it serves a purpose in the show's narrative; he's the Jiminy Cricket. But in this instance I disagreed, because of my personal anger at entitled sexist jerks who take advantage of vulnerable women --which I gathered was in part the nature of the guy whose dirty linen was aired. Is that correct?
  

8 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

On 11/4/2019 at 8:32 AM, kwnyc said:

Though most likely, Daisy would get some kind of pundit/host job on a news show after a little time went by.)

Indications are that she will appear in at least one more of the five remaining episodes.

I thought the final scenes with Daisy were very touching and left no ambiguity about the moral fitness of her character. I hope we do see Daisy get a new, more mom-friendly job, but even more, I've always hoped Patina Miller will get a role in which she gets to look less stiff and in which her vivacious energy and beauty can be highlighted. 
And typing this I just noticed that the last name of the off-screen racist, sexist DB is the same as Patina's IRL. 

The show has done a great job, IMO, of doing Ripped From The Headlines while at the same time remaining non-partisan. I know they did this for ratings and Network image, but I do think the show might wear well in the future because of it
--unless it provides unintentional humor
--which is not a bad thing either.

[Emma9]

As much as I love this show and Bess as a character, I really wish they hadn't established the trend of her constantly reversing her decisions because of public backlash as she has this season. It makes her look wishy-washy.

Not that I'd prefer to see it go in the complete opposite direction of her being bullheaded with no justification, but the implication of flip-flopping as a running theme is that either she can't stand to hear mean things being said about her or she isn't considering her actions thoroughly enough in the first place. I've never gotten that sense from the character before, and I wish I weren't feeling it now, with so little time left.

Obligatory nod to the continuity fairy with Russell and his pandas.

[Florinaldo]

3 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

But in this instance I disagreed, because of my personal anger at entitled sexist jerks who take advantage of vulnerable women --which I gathered was in part the nature of the guy whose dirty linen was aired. Is that correct?

Yes that's what I umderstand about that character. But one does not get to choose if the law should apply according to one's moral preferences; abiding by the law is not optional even of Bess' opponent is indeed a repulsive person. And when you make a choice like the writers chose for Daisy, you must be ready to face the consequences. Dura lex, sed lex as they say.

3 hours ago, Emma9 said:

I really wish they hadn't established the trend of her constantly reversing her decisions because of public backlash as she has this season. It makes her look wishy-washy.

It's like they want to have it both ways. She is supposed to be tough, traditionally envisioned as a male quality, but she can also be moved to change her mind because of her emotions, a stereotype for women.

Edited November 5, 2019 by Florinaldo

[candall]

On 11/3/2019 at 10:20 PM, MerBearHou said:

 I HATE watching the McCords eat, crunch, chew, slurp ice cream, etc on TV and Lordy, they eat often.  I’ll comment later on this episode but I had to get this off my chest.

Right there with you.  Old Law & Order episodes are the background noise of my life.  I can be drifting off to sleep to the soothing rumble of Briscoe or McCoy and suddenly <ree! ree! ree! ree!> OMIGAWD, they're eating again!!  So much Chinese carryout.  So much dialogue with full mouths.

Quote

I don't get why we haven't seen the people who LOVE Bess...she's a first and has been shown to be a compassionate, empathetic leader. If I ran into our last president, I would burst into tears...and if I ever meet Hillary, I'll probably babble at her (and burst into tears).

I've been puzzled by this, too.  She was always sowing good will amongst the peoples back when she was, you know, Madam Secretary.   I scowl at the tv and have a little inner dialogue with the characters.  "You think she's bad?  Lemme tell you a little bit about bad . . ."

[Athena5217]

On 11/4/2019 at 3:04 AM, NUguy514 said:

The whole storyline felt implausible and reeked of attempts by production to cut costs by jettisoning one of their contract actors.

Yeah, I'm infuriated.

Me too. I feel like the producers got rid of Daisy so they could afford to pay Wentworth Miller in a role that could have been adequately played by a cheaper, less famous actor. I like Wentworth, I just don’t see the point of casting a well-known actor in a role that is basically a talking plot device.

[kwnyc]

Quote

 I've always hoped Patina Miller will get a role in which she gets to look less stiff and in which her vivacious energy and beauty can be highlighted. 

Here's hoping she gets another great musical role on Broadway!

[Noneofyourbusiness]

Any reason Valerie couldn't have said publicly that although she wouldn't confirm who her source was, it wasn't Daisy?

On 11/4/2019 at 9:32 AM, kwnyc said:

Speaking of which: the guy in Virginia who hadn;t voted, and was crabby...would he REALLY have spoken that way to THE CURRENT PRESIDENT and one of the candidates?

He wasn't crabby to Conrad, though. He changed his tune as soon as he saw him behind Elizabeth.