S10.E05: What It Always Is

[nodorothyparker]

Airdate 2019.11.03

Quote

Supplies go missing from Hilltop as Negan finds himself idolized by an Alexandrian. Ezekiel holds a secret.

Mod Note:  This thread is for discussion of the episode only.  If you didn't see it happen onscreen, discussion of it does not belong here and your post WILL be removed.  DO NOT DISCUSS CASTING NEWS, including reported cast comings and goings.   We have separate threads for discussing spoilers or the comics.  

[CletusMusashi]

Negan was just way too interested in immediately teaching that boy how to finger each other's crotch areas. And the craziest thing is that I don't think the writers even realize how bad that looks. Because they are honestly just that bad at their jobs.

[AngelaHunter]

7 minutes ago, CletusMusashi said:

Negan was just way too interested in immediately teaching that boy how to finger each other's crotch areas. And the craziest thing is that I don't think the writers even realize how bad that looks. Because they are honestly just that bad at their jobs.

Really, it's outrageous. You just know the next step was Negan teaching the kid how to finger HIS (Negan's) crotch. Any port in a storm I guess and he's tired of fingering himself.  Aren't there any adults writing for this show?

This is horrible but the thought of Negan as child molester just cracks me up big time every.single. time I think of it. 

Well, I didn't nearly expire from boredom this week, so I'm satisified.

[peach]

7 minutes ago, CletusMusashi said:

Negan was just way too interested in immediately teaching that boy how to finger each other's crotch areas. And the craziest thing is that I don't think the writers even realize how bad that looks. Because they are honestly just that bad at their jobs.

Someone wrote that, and they cast a boy to sit there and listen to it, and JDM said it to him, and the director and crew filmed it.  And it's apparently not meant to be part of his villainy.  While Hollywood is currently under a cloud of systemic sex abuse.

Fuck this show.  Not even going to bother reading about it now.

[mightysparrow]

8 minutes ago, CletusMusashi said:

Negan was just way too interested in immediately teaching that boy how to finger each other's crotch areas. And the craziest thing is that I don't think the writers even realize how bad that looks. Because they are honestly just that bad at their jobs.

You're right.

These assholes are so convinced that Negan is the KOOLEST THING EVER that they have no idea how disgusting he REALLY is.

A big part of the Negan Redemption Tour is to give him the 'Parents Just Don't Understand' edit.  He's the only one who can relate to the kiddies.  So having a sexual predator 'befriend' a confused young girl and telling a boy he just met to keep his 'meaty fingers' off his (Negan's) scrotum is perfectly acceptable to Kang and Co.  I really shudder to think about what goes on in the writer's room.  I wonder if ANYBODY connected to the show or even AMC pointed out how incredibly inappropriate this is.

[Lamima]

Glad to see I wasn't the only one who's jaw dropped during the Negan and kid scene tonight. I yelled WTF so loud it woke my husband up. Like, really, WTF!?!?!?!?! Why don't they hire Spacey while they're at it?

[AngelaHunter]

9 minutes ago, mightysparrow said:

telling a boy he just met to keep his 'meaty fingers' off his (Negan's) scrotum i

He said that?? I refused to listen to the whole thing and muted it. Just...wow wow wow.

You know those moronic writers and the equally brain-dead Kang and pervert Kirkman will say it's just Negan's way of relating to kids on their level. Wow again.

ETA: I wonder if JDM found it incredibly inappropriate as well.

Edited November 4, 2019 by AngelaHunter

[mightysparrow]

4 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

You know those moronic writers and the equally brain-dead Kang and pervert Kirkman will say it's just Negan's way of relating to kids on their level. Wow again.

They will and it shows how untalented, brain dead and morally bankrupt these people are.

Because Negan's a monster.  They're trying to sell him as a guy we 'love to hate' but Negan is just a monster, who raped women, threw people in furnaces, burned a man's face for wanting to be with his own wife and beat Glenn and Abraham's heads to pulp.  There's no walking that back. 

Edited November 4, 2019 by mightysparrow

[AngelaHunter]

3 minutes ago, mightysparrow said:

Because Negan's a monster. 

Yeah, I've been saying that since Day 1. And Kirkman is the secret monster who created him and loves him so.

ETA: I know I've said what an irredeemable monster Negan is ad nauseum, but I've never seen him any other way. I know I've harped on it and was no doubt tiresome, but was always convinced I was right, no matter what those fools who write this shit want us to think.

Edited November 4, 2019 by AngelaHunter

[nodorothyparker]

13 minutes ago, mightysparrow said:

A big part of the Negan Redemption Tour is to give him the 'Parents Just Don't Understand' edit.  He's the only one who can relate to the kiddies.  So having a sexual predator 'befriend' a confused young girl and telling a boy he just met to keep his 'meaty fingers' off his (Negan's) scrotum is perfectly acceptable to Kang and Co.  I really shudder to think about what goes on in the writer's room.  I wonder if ANYBODY connected to the show or even AMC pointed out how incredibly inappropriate this is.

I'm guessing not since the scene made it onto the air framed as oh look at this heart-warming scene of Negan relating to this sad lonely kid he gets to add to his save of the week list.  This is spot on.

The thing that really gets me is that all they had to do was leave Uncle Negan's happy fun times of instructing someone else's child on the proper way to smack nuts around out and there was a decently serviceable story there.  Leaving aside his musings about terrible airplane food that might as well have been the color of socks Martians wear to this kid, it did hit a moment of understanding that there's an entire world that's just gone to all of these kids who have been born and lived since then.  Negan nutcase cosplayer was indeed a nutcase, but I kind of like the idea of Negan being forced to see what Savior assholery looked like from the other side and having to reckon with the reality that he comes off the way he does in those hero worship stories for legitimate reasons that don't go away just because the redemption bus is making regular stops for him to get his save of the week.

[mightysparrow]

10 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

Yeah, I've been saying that since Day 1. And Kirkman is the secret monster who created him and loves him so.

ETA: I know I've said what an irredeemable monster Negan is ad nauseum, but I've never seen him any other way. I know I've harped on it and was no doubt tiresome, but was always convinced I was right, no matter what those fools who write this shit want us to think.

You're not alone. 

I've never tasted a drop of the Negan Kool-Aid.  I don't think he's sexy or charming or even slightly redeemable.  Aside from all that murder, raping, torture and mutilating, I will NEVER forget or forgive what he did to Glenn and Abraham.

[AngelaHunter]

2 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

it did hit a moment of understanding that there's an entire world that's just gone to all of these kids who have been born and lived since then.

I didn't mind that. It's pretty much the first conversation we've heard in years that sounded like it could be genuine. They couldn't stick to topics like that? Negan has to always get back to his nuts-and-dick stuff, even to a kid? BTW, I found out that kid is 13. I was curious as to his age that he was put there to listen to a 50 year old man talk about his genitals.

I"m so pissed off. This is the first ep in I don't know how long that I didn't actively hate. Now it's ruined. Thanks, Kang and Kirkman, you fucking deviants.

2 minutes ago, mightysparrow said:

I will NEVER forget or forgive what he did to Glenn and Abraham.

That actually didn't affect me as much as seeing that young blonde girl crying and being forced to service the monster after she watched him burn her boyfriend's face off. That's what made him utterly repulsive to me.

[mightysparrow]

3 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

I'm guessing not since the scene made it onto the air framed as oh look at this heart-warming scene of Negan relating to this sad lonely kid he gets to add to his save of the week list.  This is spot on.

The thing that really gets me is that all they had to do was leave Uncle Negan's happy fun times of instructing someone else's child on the proper way to smack nuts around out and there was a decently serviceable story there.  Leaving aside his musings about airplane food that might as well have been the color of socks Martians wear to this kid, it did hit a moment of understanding that there's an entire world that's just gone to all of these kids who have been born and lived since then.  Negan nutcase cosplayer was indeed a nutcase, but I kind of like the idea of Negan being forced to see what Savior assholery looked like from the other side and having to reckon with the reality that he comes off the way he does in those hero worship stories for legitimate reasons that don't go away just because the redemption bus is making regular stops for him to get his save of the week.

That's what so fucked up. 

The scene with Negan telling the boy about airplanes and flying was a NICE scene.  And it was interesting that Negan was getting a chance to see how sick and twisted he must appear to the rest of the world via Brandon.  But that wasn't good enough.  The powers that be seem to think that Negan's not Negan unless he's talking about dick, even if it's with a child. 

[AngelaHunter]

OH, sorry. I didn't mean to say Kang is a deviant. She's just an moronic, clueless puppet. Kirkman is the deviant.

[amazinglybored]

So. This is legit the story of a sexual predator and pretty accidentally nuanced for this show. He gained power and did whatever he wanted. He had his rape harem and was too interested in Carl. Then he went to jail. Now he’s getting back in society and returning to the same behaviour. People miss or ignore the danger. Prison failed to reform him because iirc the chances of that are super low even now. Or he’s a super cool guy kids love. So sketchy.

[peach]

41 minutes ago, mightysparrow said:

You're not alone. 

I've never tasted a drop of the Negan Kool-Aid.  I don't think he's sexy or charming or even slightly redeemable.  Aside from all that murder, raping, torture and mutilating, I will NEVER forget or forgive what he did to Glenn and Abraham.

This is why I can't believe they would also resurrect stupid Lucille and remind the viewers of that.  

I've never understood anything, really, about what they do with this revolting character.  

[CletusMusashi]

I did like Daryl telling Connie about Merle. Still not quite sure how he wrote "private property" on the notepad with like two or three taps of his pen, though. It looked like Norman halfassed that part, then realized his mistake and started writing more realistically for the rest of the conversation, and probably would have been fine with a reshoot, but everyone else was in too much of a hurry to get to the big "Tickle Fights with Uncle Negan" scene.

Edited November 4, 2019 by CletusMusashi

[AngelaHunter]

17 minutes ago, amazinglybored said:

He had his rape harem and was too interested in Carl.

I guess Neeg doesn't care where he gets his kicks.

13 minutes ago, peach said:

I've never understood anything, really, about what they do with this revolting character.

When you look at who spewed him out, it's clearer.

So, pedophilia is okay, but adults having sex or even making innuendos about it is verboten.

Got it.

[peach]

20 minutes ago, CletusMusashi said:

but everyone else was in too much of a hurry to get to the big "Tickle Fights with Uncle Negan" scene.

The AMC twitter acct for TWD happily posted about "Uncle Negan," literally, with a gif of him sitting next to the kid saying "I don't bite.". With plenty of positive comments under it.  😕

[Ms Lark]

Glad I wasn't the only one wondering if "Uncle Negan" was grooming that kid. Ugh. I don't drink the Negan kool-aid, either. Still pissed Rick didn't kill him off when he had ample chances. 

[CletusMusashi]

Come to think of it, Negan was also pretty excited to stick his finger into Coral's eye socket. I didn't read as much into it then as I do now, but... yikes. I don't think Kirkman's childhood was quite normal. No matter how much candy those guys in the van gave him.

[AngelaHunter]

16 minutes ago, peach said:

With plenty of positive comments under it. 

That does not surprise me in the least. I can imagine how many fanfic "writers" are melting their keyboards. They like pedophiles.

5 minutes ago, CletusMusashi said:

Come to think of it, Negan was also pretty excited to stick his finger into Coral's eye socket.

Oh shit oh-my-dear! 🤣

I'm imagining someone who never saw this show stumbling on this forum and thinking, "What the HELL are these people watching??"

Edited November 4, 2019 by AngelaHunter

[Mu Shu]

3 hours ago, CletusMusashi said:

Negan was just way too interested in immediately teaching that boy how to finger each other's crotch areas. And the craziest thing is that I don't think the writers even realize how bad that looks. Because they are honestly just that bad at their jobs.

What the hell was that? Who wrote that shit? I was yelling stranger danger to my TV.

Luckily, Ezekiel gets to die and end this misery. The shark is so jumped that all that is left is Negans stupid leather jacket. 

[rmontro]

Everyone seems to be focused on the "nut tapping" interaction.  Negan may be a monster, but I get no pedophile vibe from him whatsoever.  He just has a filthy mouth and in his mind was engaging in some adolescent bonding, because in many ways he's clearly never grown up.  Having said that, yeah I don't know what the heck they were trying to do in that scene, or why they thought it was a good idea to include it.

Most people seem to hate Negan on here, but I like him as a character (and the way JDM plays him), I think he's interesting.  He's done some terrible things, no question, I'm not saying he's a great guy that I'd like to hang around.  But I do think he's made some "rehabilitation" changes, and you could see that he cared about Carl, and even had respect for Rick.  Now that little psychopath creep that was following him around, I was glad to see him get what was coming to him.  I'm sure Negan deserves the same, but I understand the writers keeping him around, like I said, his character is interesting.  Obviously YMMV.

[wrlord]

I disagree with most people here due to this perspective: This is not a well-written show. This is not a show that's been planned in detail like Breaking Bad.  

Neegan is redeemable - and is being redeemed - because that is the Neegan that the writers are currently writing. They are not writing the Neegan who caved in the heads of Glenn and Abe or who threw people in furnaces. I am not saying Neegan has changed (though that's the easy shorthand, and that is what they'll ultimately have to say). I'm saying they're writing a different character.  Neegan is on his way to redemption because the writers have decided that is who the character they're writing is.

I'm reminded of the Fantastic Four, and the explanation for how Ben and Reed could have fought in WWII:  there is no explanation. As the years passed the writers simply stopped mentioning it.

As for the nut tapping, I don't get a pedo vibe here. I think the writers just think that's how a grownup can seem cool to a kid.

Edited November 4, 2019 by wrlord

[amazinglybored]

6 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

That does not surprise me in the least. I can imagine how many fanfic "writers" are melting their keyboards. They like pedophiles.

Oh shit oh-my-dear! 🤣

I'm imagining someone who never saw this show stumbling on this forum and thinking, "What the HELL are these people watching??"

I watch it and wonder what the hell we’re watching.

Edited November 4, 2019 by amazinglybored

[Ouisch]

I saw an episode of Judge Judy once where a kid's parents were suing his classmate for injuring his testicles when they played "the sack tap game" at school. I was all WTF?! then; never thought I'd hear about that past time on TWD.

Who is the cousin that that one girl (Yumika's girlfriend) was talking about? "He killed my cousin." And who was the "he" - Negan? There are too many characters for me to keep track of!

[Mr. Sparkle]

1 hour ago, Ouisch said:

Who is the cousin that that one girl (Yumika's girlfriend) was talking about? "He killed my cousin." And who was the "he" - Negan? There are too many characters for me to keep track of!

I took that as a pre-Z.A. event. Yumiko was a lawyer who defended Magna 13 years ago, when she got revenge on someone who harmed her young cousin. 

[SamBeckett]

9 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

ETA: I wonder if JDM found it incredibly inappropriate as well.

What makes your comment even more interesting is that JDM’s wife had her own #metoo situation a while back. For many reasons — but especially that — did JDM not realize just how uncool that scene was? Sure, he’s merely the actor, so what power does he have? I’m sure if he thought of speaking up he was likely to think, “Hey, I might lose my job.” (Such as it is.) this is example of just hypocritical Hollywood is. It’s frankly disheartening. I wish someone would start some kind of Twitter or Instagram or Facebook campaign to let us mere mortals show how this stuff pisses us off.

[mightysparrow]

2 hours ago, Ouisch said:

I saw an episode of Judge Judy once where a kid's parents were suing his classmate for injuring his testicles when they played "the sack tap game" at school. I was all WTF?! then; never thought I'd hear about that past time on TWD.

Who is the cousin that that one girl (Yumika's girlfriend) was talking about? "He killed my cousin." And who was the "he" - Negan? There are too many characters for me to keep track of!

I wonder why the writers think we'd be interested in a 100 year old pre-ZA beef between a couple of newbies.

[mightysparrow]

20 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

The King doesn't look like he is going to live much longer.  That growth on his neck seemed to come out of nowhere.   I don't blame him for hanging up on Carol.   If she cared about Ezekiel she wouldn't have run off in the first place.

The LAST thing the King needs while he's facing death is a cold, selfish creature like Carol. 

[Lamima]

3 minutes ago, mightysparrow said:

I wonder why the writers think we'd be interested in a 100 year old pre-ZA beef between a couple of newbies.

This. Yawnfest. And Kelly and Yumika were on Talking Dead. Bore fest! 

[mightysparrow]

29 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

Daryl should have had those people that stole supplies booted from the settlement.   Daryl can't keep letting people off of the hook like that.  Without rules to live by, there is nothing but anarchy.

Earl Sutton is really losing his shit.   He is 24/7 preoccupied with the Whisperers.

Daryl might be thinking back to the time when he, Rick and Carol hid a bunch of supplies when they arrived in Alexandria.  I don't think they stole anything but it was a danger to a community that had taken them in.

[TattleTeeny]

14 hours ago, CletusMusashi said:

Negan was just way too interested in immediately teaching that boy how to finger each other's crotch areas. And the craziest thing is that I don't think the writers even realize how bad that looks. Because they are honestly just that bad at their jobs.

The whole thing was weird in a million ways. Like, for instance, if that kid grew up from a baby/toddler in this whole apocalypse mess, how do we even know what slang words (for testicles or anything else) he would be familiar with? Non-apocalypse kids learn shit from TV, school, other kids, etc; if this kid has basically been by his mom's side his whole life amid the fall of society, would he know "balls"...or even anything Negan was talking about? The scene could have been mostly* OK if it stuck to airplanes or whatever. 

* "Mostly" because why on earth would that mom leave her kid alone outside their shelter--which had just been besieged--with an adult male complete stranger?! Also, exactly how much did she have in that bus to pack?

Edited November 4, 2019 by TattleTeeny
WHOOPS! I mean "nut," not "ball"--but my question/point remains.

[nodorothyparker]

The thing is that I don't actually think the writers are deliberately setting out to write a Negan the Happy Pedophile story.  The writing for him has always been sufficiently juvenile enough that they probably think this is just a character tic for him that he consistently comes across as a cooler than cool 14-year-old avatar for Kirkman trapped in the body of a middle-aged monster wielding a barbed wire-wrapped bat.  But it's a seriously overdone trope that even psychopaths love dogs and kids, and since they already gave Daryl the dog, weirdness with kids because aw shucks he's really just a big kid himself at heart it is then.  Even individual scenes like the how-to guide on nut tapping by themselves aren't really the issue.  It's the sum total of them, from his general fixation with Carl to his barely legal harem to sharing secrets with Judith to befriending the odd loner girl to now.  I can only conclude that the writers and showrunners are so in love with that version of Negan they think they're putting out there that none of them are able to see that he's reading to a lot of us instead more like Michael Jackson inviting the kiddos to Neverland.

Daryl's been around long enough to remember that they've all done highly questionable things of dubious motivation at one point or another, like the time he was one of the parties planning to overthrow original recipe Alexandria.  If they take the supplies back and that's really the end of it, no harm no foul and nobody ends up maybe exiled when they're in a numbers game against the corpse-wearing nutballs in the woods.  

If Zeke actually does have cancer, that sucks as he and Jerry have been consistently pleasant sources of light and organic levity in what has sometimes felt like an endurance exercise in nihilism the last few seasons.  But right now, it's guesswork, even if somewhat educated guesswork, and it does highlight a tragic reality of living through the end of the world.  Not to bring the other show into it as this isn't the place for it, it also wouldn't be the first time a character in this franchise self-diagnosed one thing only to see it turn out to be something entirely different.

[AngelaHunter]

7 hours ago, rmontro said:

He just has a filthy mouth and in his mind was engaging in some adolescent bonding, because in many ways he's clearly never grown up.

You're right. He's a child. An extremely dangerous child with no boundaries and there are so many other things he could have talked about to the boy.

6 hours ago, wrlord said:

As for the nut tapping, I don't get a pedo vibe here. I think the writers just think that's how a grownup can seem cool to a kid.

I admit I did not watch the whole scene. I'll take another crack at it. It's so true about the writers. I'm mentioned before they seem to have no clue how men talk to each other and how they talk to kids either I guess. I'm still convinced the writers are teenaged boys so we're presented with what they think is cool or funny.

1 hour ago, icemiser69 said:

Daryl should have had those people that stole supplies booted from the settlement.

Daryl is  not nor has ever been a leader who is going to take any initiative. He's always been at his best as second in command. When not following orders he's a bit of a hothead who acts first and thinks later.

[mightysparrow]

23 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

The thing is that I don't actually think the writers are deliberately setting out to write a Negan the Happy Pedophile story.  The writing for him has always been sufficiently juvenile enough for him that they probably think this is just a character tic for him that he consistently comes across as a cooler than cool 14-year-old avatar for Kirkman trapped in the body of a middle-aged monster wielding a barbed wire-wrapped bat.  But it's a seriously overdone trope that even psychopaths love dogs and kids, and since they already gave Daryl the dog, weirdness with kids because aw shucks he's really just a big kid himself at heart it is then.  Even individual scenes like the how-to guide on nut tapping by themselves aren't really the issue.  It's the sum total of them, from his general fixation with Carl to his barely legal harem to sharing secrets with Judith to befriending the odd loner girl to now.  I can only conclude that the writers and showrunners are so in love with that version of Negan they think they're putting out there that none of them are able to see that he's reading to a lot of us instead more like Michael Jackson inviting the kiddos to Neverland.

Daryl's been around long enough to remember that they've all done highly questionable things of dubious motivation at one point or another, like the time he was one of the parties planning to overthrow original recipe Alexandria.  If they take the supplies back and that's really the end of it, no harm no foul and nobody ends up maybe exiled when they're in a numbers game against the corpse-wearing nutballs in the woods.  

If Zeke actually does have cancer, that sucks as he and Jerry have been one the consistently pleasant sources of light and organic levity in what has sometimes felt like an endurance exercise in nihilism the last few seasons.  But right now, it's guesswork, even if somewhat educated guesswork, and it does highlight a tragic reality of living through the end of the world.  Not to bring the other show into it as this isn't the place for it, it also wouldn't be the first time a character in this franchise self-diagnosed one thing only to see it turn out to be something entirely different.

Very well said!

[walnutqueen]

10 hours ago, peach said:

The AMC twitter acct for TWD happily posted about "Uncle Negan," literally, with a gif of him sitting next to the kid saying "I don't bite.". With plenty of positive comments under it.  😕

And the code for their Rewards Club was "nut tap".

[CletusMusashi]

The biggest reason that we know the unfortunate implications were unintentional is that Chris Hardwick wasn't jumping around on the couch asking everybody if Coolest Guy In the World Negan being a child molester was a deal breaker for them or not. They're proud of everything they do, so if they're not bragging about it they somehow have no fucking idea. Did you ever have a schoolteacher who'd apparently gone into the profession not understanding the concept that being named Mr. Wienerschitz or something was going to make students laugh hysterically and mock him all day? That level of cluelessness is the closest comparison I can make to this show's writing room.

[Lamima]

11 minutes ago, CletusMusashi said:

The biggest reason that we know the unfortunate implications were unintentional is that Chris Hardwick wasn't jumping around on the couch asking everybody if Coolest Guy In the World Negan being a child molester was a deal breaker for them or not. They're proud of everything they do, so if they're not bragging about it they somehow have no fucking idea. Did you ever have a schoolteacher who'd apparently gone into the profession not understanding the concept that being named Mr. Wienerschitz or something was going to make students laugh hysterically and mock him all day? That level of cluelessness is the closest comparison I can make to this show's writing room.

It's because of all the stupid fans that kiss their butts. They just think they are the bomb diggity. Kinda like GOT's last season. They thought that shit was THE BEST. Kinda like they are so good that they don't HAVE to put any effort into it. Their most basic lazy writing will be awesome...cause that's how good they are.

And I said this about GOT, and it applies here too. The cast and writers and staff are all having fun together and trying to make things LOOK cool and over the top. And they all love each other and it's like some after-school club. They forget about the audience and the writing. They are just having fun playing cops and robbers in the woods together. Blah!

Edited November 4, 2019 by Lamima

[AngelaHunter]

1 hour ago, nodorothyparker said:

It's the sum total of them, from his general fixation with Carl

That fixation was even weirder when you think as that was originally written Carl was around eleven years old.

6 minutes ago, CletusMusashi said:

Chris Hardwick wasn't jumping around on the couch asking everybody if Coolest Guy In the World Negan being a child molester was a deal breaker for them or not.

Thanks. I was wondering about that, but not even curiousity could make me watch him.

2 hours ago, mightysparrow said:

I wonder why the writers think we'd be interested in a 100 year old pre-ZA beef between a couple of newbies.

I zoned out on that and have no idea what they were going on about.

[Lamima]

11 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

That is true, but the one thing that Hilltop needs is leadership.  That is the primary reason that place is falling apart.  Hilltop is incredibly fragile, and since the newbies are stealing supplies and if the rest of that colony finds out about it, that could cause everyone else at Hilltop to start stealing and hoarding all of the supplies they can find.

They only returned the supplies because they got caught.

Add into that the way Earl Sutton is acting, and he could be the one that causes complete anarchy to breakout at Hilltop.

Who the eff is Earl Sutton? Nevermind...don't care!

[Lady Iris]

11 hours ago, peach said:

This is why I can't believe they would also resurrect stupid Lucille and remind the viewers of that.  

I've never understood anything, really, about what they do with this revolting character.  

He took his jacket and bat and we saw where he was headed. He's gonna complete his redemption tour one way or another. I'd be happy to see Negan nut tap Beta for shits and giggles though.

5 hours ago, Ouisch said:

Who is the cousin that that one girl (Yumika's girlfriend) was talking about? "He killed my cousin." And who was the "he" - Negan? There are too many characters for me to keep track of!

Exactly! I felt like we walked into the middle of a conversation he never saw the beginning of and didn't even care to see. Why is ZA Lady Gaga all pissy with Yumiko anyways? Last week we got a steamy scene with them and now they're all miserable.

Poor Zeke. He'll be meeting Shiva in the afterlife soon.

[Lamima]

Do people really call it nut tapping? I never heard that before last night. Heard of being punched in the nuts. Or kicked in the balls...and such. But nut tapping....that's a new one.

Edited November 4, 2019 by Lamima

[CletusMusashi]

For the first part of the conversation, Little Redshirt Nut-Tappinghood probably thought Negan was explaining how to crack acorn shells or something. "Hey, wow, this could be a useful survival tip. Wait, he's talking about what? And he's still going on about it five minutes later? Yeah, this guy is not normal. Hey, did he just call Mom a slut? As soon as this weirdo goes off to get firewood or something I'm gonna tell her about all this. Maybe we can run off with that nice normal younger guy he had the falling-out with."

Edited November 4, 2019 by CletusMusashi

[AngelaHunter]

14 minutes ago, Lamima said:

Do people really call it nut tapping? I never heard that before last night.

I did mention it brought back childhood memories for me, but I never heard any boy over the age of 10 saying or doing it. Perfect for Negan.

[RedDelicious]

Re: nut tapping, I totally remember 4th-5th-6th grade boys doing this in intermediate school but they got over it by junior high. I don’t remember what it was called but for sure it was a thing. 

I saw a glimmer of hope in Negan’s eyes like maybe this woman and her son could eventually become his new family. He wanted to protect them and guide them to safety. And then that asshat kid took that away from him. 

1 minute ago, AngelaHunter said:

I did mention it brought back childhood memories for me, but I never heard any boy over the age of 10 saying or doing it. Perfect for Negan.

Yes, exactly!!

[CletusMusashi]

What's Negan's favorite Christmas story?

The Nut-Tapper!

[iMonrey]

I honestly had no idea what the hell Negan was talking about with that little kid. I thought for sure I was misinterpreting the conversation. I simply couldn't believe my own ears.

Who is the girl Whisperer this episode spent so much time on? Alpha seems to have adopted her as a replacement for Lydia. For some reason her Walker mask totally cracks me up. It has gotten to the point where the Whisperers just look downright silly in those skin masks.  They're not scary or creepy of coming across as they are meant to, they just seem totally absurd.

There is just no logical reason whatsoever why anyone would want to be part of this group after watching Alpha slice and dice one of their own simply because he dared to ask her a question. Frankly I'm just as baffled by her plans and motives as he was. Hey, Whisperers - your leader is a psychopath and if you haven't figured that out by now I don't know what else needs to happen. Perhaps a house falling on you.

Quote

The cast and writers and staff are all having fun together and trying to make things LOOK cool and over the top. And they all love each other and it's like some after-school club. They forget about the audience and the writing. They are just having fun playing cops and robbers in the woods together. 

You know, that's a very good analogy. The show runners are all in this little bubble and are overly influenced and validated by the sycophants on Twitter while ignoring the ratings and hand-waving any criticism as "haters." 

There was a scene in this episode where Negan cuts the head off a Walker with razor wire. I can't bring myself to watch Talking Dead anymore but this is exactly the kind of thing they spend time patting themselves on the back over on that show. They're so focused on style and visuals and somehow have delusions people are invested in these new characters I can't even remember the names of half the time. 

From what I can gather, Kelly and Connie are sisters. Is that right? And Kelly is going deaf like her sister did. I guess. But frankly I've been given no reason to care whatsoever about either of them. 

[amazinglybored]

3 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

The thing is that I don't actually think the writers are deliberately setting out to write a Negan the Happy Pedophile story.  The writing for him has always been sufficiently juvenile enough that they probably think this is just a character tic for him that he consistently comes across as a cooler than cool 14-year-old avatar for Kirkman trapped in the body of a middle-aged monster wielding a barbed wire-wrapped bat.  But it's a seriously overdone trope that even psychopaths love dogs and kids, and since they already gave Daryl the dog, weirdness with kids because aw shucks he's really just a big kid himself at heart it is then.  Even individual scenes like the how-to guide on nut tapping by themselves aren't really the issue.  It's the sum total of them, from his general fixation with Carl to his barely legal harem to sharing secrets with Judith to befriending the odd loner girl to now.  I can only conclude that the writers and showrunners are so in love with that version of Negan they think they're putting out there that none of them are able to see that he's reading to a lot of us instead more like Michael Jackson inviting the kiddos to Neverland.

It’s for sure unintentional. I think it’s pretty clear they didn’t think his harem was that bad and they’re choosing to use him getting close to kids as part of his redemption. It’s just that his harem was that bad and he’s exceptionally creepy with these younger characters.
 

Them missing how disturbing Negan is is messed up. What’s really annoying is that they used to treat rape as a sign a character was bad. Shane getting forceful with a Lori was one of his big tipping point moments, Randall and co in season 2, the Governor threatening to rape Maggie, and the guy who Rick ripped his jugular out. I don’t like rape being a plot device like that but this is worse. They initially showed how hard being in the rape harem was in those women but refused to acknowledge that it was rape. Now they’re trying to redeem a serial rapist.