S02.E01: Trove

[jjj]

First episode of Season 2 aired -- and I loved it, except for the relationship between the murdered young woman and the lover/father.  That twist seemed so unnecessary -- there could have been so many other reasons she needed to be killed.  And surely he had kept track of her and her mother over the years, so how could he not know that was his daughter?  But loved the Trove theft and the other plot line.  What was that at the end?  The only person on the episode with a pinky ring* was the contest mastermind, and I could not tell if the ending was meant to be mysterious, or whether it will be continued?  (*The missing notebook was handed over to someone with a pinky ring.  But it was a very luxurious setting.)

[Badger]

I'm sure "Downton Abbey" fans recognized Crawley family solicitor Mr. Murray in the episode.

[Milz]

I don't understand why no one realized the fake Captain was a fake, especially his secret society.  Don't they have regimental reunions? Anyhow, I think the whole "secret society" thing is a plot device to explain why Strange rose in the ranks to become Morse's boss. But if Morse got on the Secret Society's bad side, why did Strange stay loyal to Morse (especially in The Remorseful Day, the last Inspector Morse book/episode)? Needs more 'splaining........

 

I got that Diana Day was supposed to be like Diana Dors (the UK's version of Marilyn Monroe....who was also married to Richard Dawson AKA Newkirk on Hogan's Heroes and host of Family Feud), but who was the female politician? Can't be Maggie Thatcher (could it?)

[M. Darcy]

So, I guess the Wolvercote Tongue is somehow related to the Wolvercote Trove.   And, it took until 1990 but the Masons did finally get their revenge!

 

Recently I've been listening to the radio series Cabin Pressure nonstop, so its a little weird to actually see Roger Allam as opposed to just hearing his voice.  It was nice seeing Abigail Thaw again. 

 

So, if your husband gets arrested for killing his daughter and it turns out your marriage wasn't legal, do you resign the office you were just elected to?

[attica]

his mentor Friday

 

Ooh, magdalene, you're a day late! Roger Allam plays Thursday. :)  I agree that the older man's fondness for Morse is the best part of the show.

[jjj]

Yes, it was fun to hear the reference to the Wolvercote treasures.  The specialist/assistant at the exhibit mentioned the discovery of the Wolvercote Buckle, which he said was on display at the Ashmolean Museum.  The later series episode "The Wolvercote Tongue" was about restoring the "tongue", or the missing piece, to the buckle at the Ashmolean.  I can't bear that episode because of the dreary American tourists. 

Yes, you are right, Milz, you would think that reunions would have outed the Captain.  And surely he had some family that deserved to know  he had died, or who wondered who this stranger was who turned up after the war.  Shades of "Mad Men"! 

They were playing the Brahms Requiem at the start and conclusion of this episode. 

[Milz]

They were playing the Brahms Requiem at the start and conclusion of this episode. 

 

I'm not a hard-core opera fan, but I know enough opera to recognize the brindisi from La Traviata during the beauty queen/election results montage. I didn't understand it being used in the montage, other than the really superficial "hey, let's celebrate!"

 

you would think that reunions would have outed the Captain.  And surely he had some family that deserved to know  he had died, or who wondered who this stranger was who turned up after the war. 

 

Especially since his wife was running for political office and he was a "respected" man in Oxford. Unless his entire regiment was wiped out, you'd think someone would notice that's not the real Captain Batten. Also, didn't Thursday or Morse say that Frida's mother was still alive? (I guess she never picks up a newspaper......)

[M. Darcy]

No, I think her mom had died. That's why she had her Mom's box.

[jjj]

Frida's mother (Elspeth) died, although I'm not sure if the stepfather said when.  But you'd assume the Captain would be keeping track of Frida, if only to avoid Frida and Elspeth both. 

I appreciate that you posters are reminding me of the characters in the "Inspector Morse" series -- I've seen them all, but the reminders are very helpful! 

[Milz]

That makes sense. But it doesn't make sense that Captain Fake wasn't keeping tabs on Frida or Elspeth to avoid bumping into them. Or that he managed to avoid being found out, considering he lead a rather high profile life.

[attica]

you'd think someone would notice that's not the real Captain Batten.

 

Hey, it worked for Don Draper! Mostly, anyway.

[whatsatool]

SO glad to have Endeavor back on my screen. He may be my favorite detective ever - not counting the guys and dog at Person of INterest.  But yes incest is icky and made me much less sympathetic for the victim so seems very dim brained. I must have missed the last episode of Season 1. How did he get shot and what happened. Also this seems like a very unresolved episode.  LIked Endeavors humility.

[jjj]

That very last scene still bugs me, and I was hoping the eagle-eyed posters here had seen some clue I missed.  I looked at it again, and it looks like  a very posh residence (note black and white checkered tiling), with a butler in white gloves handing off the notebook to someone else, who had a pinky ring.  I do hope this gets resolved at some point! 

 

ETA:  that I just remembered that Thursday asked who had secured the scene where the notebook was last seen, and Morse/Endeavour said "Strange -- not that I mean anything by that."  So perhaps that was the clue I thought must exist somewhere in the episode. 

Edited June 30, 2014 by jjj

[starri]

Sigh, I may be a married man, but Shaun Evans is dreamy...

 

More topically, they certainly came back and hit the ground running.  I mean, I don't know why they had to go immediately for the incest thing, as I don't think that really added anything to the episode other than being revolting.

 

Is Freemasonry going to be a running black-hat this series?  I know that Strange is a high-level Mason by the time of "Morse," but the little insert of the Master Mason getting what I assume was Morse's name on some black list was really ominous.

[M. Darcy]

 

How did he get shot and what happened.

 

They went to arrest the woman who was the killer and while Morse's back was turned when he was on the phone calling the police station, she shot him.  She had a gun hidden in her chair. 

[Milz]

They went to arrest the woman who was the killer and while Morse's back was turned when he was on the phone calling the police station, she shot him.  She had a gun hidden in her chair. 

 lol, I read that really fast and thought you wrote "She had a gun hidden in her hair."   I knew that bouffant 'do could be tall and scary but....yikes!

 

But that explains, Morse's limp. And all these cases happening on roof tops and people committing suicide by falling off roof tops explains why Morse wasn't fond of heights (and sent Lewis to deal with that sort of thing). and Morse is hitting the bottle too. :-(

 

As I wrote above, if Lewis wakes up in 1966 or 1967 a la Life On Mars, he would probably break all of the "don't change the future" rules of Sci-Fi and tell Endeavour what's in store for him.

[yeswedo]

 

After a man falls to his death, the investigation sees Morse back in action. He uncovers some secrets at the university and also outside of the city. He needs to move quickly though as the body count increases and doomsday beckons.

 

Description from TVDB

[starri]

As I said in the Masterpiece thread, I really liked "Trove."  As much as I like omniscience TV sleuths, it was refreshing to see Morse being off his game and suffering with a bit of PTSD.  

 

I liked the nurse immediately, and if she's going to be a love interest, I'm in favor.

 

As several people said, I REALLY could have done without the incest bit.  

[catrice2]

What happened at the end when he kept saying that he felt like there was something he was missing?  Is that going to carry over to future episodes? I also missed what he said to the neighbor when she asked for the favor, and what he thanked her for giving him?

[magdalene]

Ooh, magdalene, you're a day late! Roger Allam plays Thursday. :)  I agree that the older man's fondness for Morse is the best part of the show.

Oops! I don't know why I wrote that - some kind of weird Freudian slip?

[Merneith]

I liked this episode a lot but it felt like conclusion kind of came out of left field. I don't really know how Morse got that Banner was involved (his name was Banner, right? Mr. MP?) but maybe I missed something with everybody muttering. I can put up with the incest but I'd like to know what made Morse suspect that. OTOH, I can't work up much enthusiasm for Morse vs the Masons.

 

I like Shaun Evans in the role and I would watch a whole show devoted to the Thursday household.

 

Also, @yeswedo - Love your avatar! Kimba was a seminal influence for me.

[jjj]

The thing that was "missing" that he "forgot" was the notebook -- and the final scene showed what happened to it.  (I've already obsessed about that in two posts above!)  But as he mentioned it over and over, it surprised me that they expect us to accept that he "forgot" it. 

The neighbour loaned him a can opener, or "tin opener," as he said, in exchange for the ten pence he gave her for the gas (not everyone knows that then, and today in many parts of the world, you pay for electricity and gas as you consume it). 

What amazed me is that he kept walking around with that notepad with "FRIDA Y", etc., on it, when it was a piece of evidence that should have been sent to be registered and preserved as evidence. 

Edited July 1, 2014 by jjj

[jjj]

On to the similarities and discrepancies of "The Wolvercote Tongue" and "Trove". I pulled it up on Netflix.  In the Inspector Morse episode, the expert said that a boy had stumbled across the Wolvercote Buckle in 1873, in the Thames, followed by "treasure hunters" who made off with the Wolvercote Tongue, and spirited it away to the U.S., with the tongue discovery being revealed to the British when it was put on display in Philadelphia in 1922.  In "Trove," The new expert said the buckle was found in the famous dig of 1931, along with the other treasures.  In "The Wolvercote Tongue," Morse makes a big deal out of the fact that it is one of the treasures of the Ashmolean (Lewis said he had never been there), but the way Morse said it, it almost seemed like sarcasm -- "of course EVERYONE knows about the WOlvercote Buckle, Lewis."  At any rate, nice backward continuity on that point, but not on the history of the buckle.  Don't know why they changed the history -- the original story would have worked fine. 

By the way, LOVED the way Endeavour went after DOCTOR Copley Barnes about incorrectly referencing the Historica Ecclesiastica and going on to his own observations about Bede the Venerable.  That bonnet-wearing DOCTOR was a jerk to all. 

[yeswedo]

Hi all, if you want to have any posts moved here from another forum add the links below or PM me.

@Merneith same here!

[sugarbaker design]

don't really know how Morse got that Banner was involved (his name was Banner, right? Mr. MP?)

 

 

The letter in Frida's memory box, addressed to her mother was from Mr Batten, the husband of the MP.  Morse confronted him about it, Batten feigned ignorance, Morse later found a photo with Batten and Frida.  

 

Kitty Batten looked so familiar, it was killing me, I finally realized she's Jessie from I'd Do Anything!

 

My memory of old Morse episodes is atrocious, did the Masons finally get back at Morse?

 

I have no clue what that last scene meant!

Edited July 1, 2014 by sugarbaker design

[Milz]

What amazed me is that he kept walking around with that notepad with "FRIDA Y", etc., on it, when it was a piece of evidence that should have been sent to be registered and preserved as evidence. 

 

I thought he copied what was on the notepad onto his notepad?

 

On to the similarities and discrepancies of "The Wolvercote Tongue" and "Trove". I pulled it up on Netflix.  In the Inspector Morse episode, the expert said that a boy had stumbled across the Wolvercote Buckle in 1873, in the Thames, followed by "treasure hunters" who made off with the Wolvercote Tongue, and spirited it away to the U.S., with the tongue discovery being revealed to the British when it was put on display in Philadelphia in 1922.  In "Trove," The new expert said the buckle was found in the famous dig of 1931, along with the other treasures.  In "The Wolvercote Tongue," Morse makes a big deal out of the fact that it is one of the treasures of the Ashmolean (Lewis said he had never been there), but the way Morse said it, it almost seemed like sarcasm -- "of course EVERYONE knows about the WOlvercote Buckle, Lewis."  At any rate, nice backward continuity on that point, but not on the history of the buckle.  Don't know why they changed the history -- the original story would have worked fine. 

By the way, LOVED the way Endeavour went after DOCTOR Copley Barnes about incorrectly referencing the Historica Ecclesiastica and going on to his own observations about Bede the Venerable.  That bonnet-wearing DOCTOR was a jerk to all. 

 

With this episode, it seems like Morse was indulging in a private joke when he said that to Lewis. And of course, Lewis didn't get it. It gives me a new insight to the Morse-Lewis relationship though. Because I'm getting the feeling when Morse says things like that to Lewis it was more of a private joke (to Morse) or out of frustration that they went through this before so Lewis should know it already than any criticism of Lewis' geordie background. Of course, Lewis is clueless because he wasn't around when Morse had gone through it before. 

 

Dr. Bonnet would be one of those characters that need a Lewis or Hathaway around to give a mental eye-roll the audience could see.

[starri]

 

Kitty Batten looked so familiar, it was killing me, I finally realized she's Jessie from I'd Do Anything!

Barbara Batten was the one who drove me crazy.  And I'm looking up her resume and I'm still not entirely sure.

[peeayebee]

Are there two forums to discuss Endeavour, here and Masterpiece Theatre? 

 

My memory of old Morse episodes is atrocious, did the Masons finally get back at Morse?

 

I haven't seen any of the Inspector Morse shows. (I saw the Inspector Lewis ones, and last season of Endeavour.) Was this fraternity discussed in Morse?  Also, was it actually called the Masons or are you just referring to it that way? 

 

I guess I was right in getting the impression that the threat/warning Batten issued to Morse will come to pass during this season. I assume it'll pop up during the episodes as the police work other cases.

 

I have no clue what that last scene meant!

 

With the little notebook being handed over to someone? I figure this was the thing that Morse was talking about when he said he felt like he was missing something. It's the Pettifyr (sp?) notebook that went missing. I don't think we're supposed to know yet who took it. It's being treated like a very special object, so I'm thinking someone in the fraternity wanted it, or the fraternity itself wanted it for its historical collection.

 

As for the ep itself, I enjoyed it, though I sure have a hard time following what's going on. I don't see how Morse came to solve everything, like Frida being Batten's daughter. Still, I thought it was good.

 

BTW -- bad memory here -- can someone remind me what happened to Morse at the end of last season?

[yeswedo]

@peeayebee see my post above. I can move any posts from the Masterpiece forum if someone can direct me to the relevant ones.

[peeayebee]

Yes, I saw your post, but I couldn't find the Masterpiece Theatre forum/thread.

[photo fox]

@peeayebee, this is what you're looking for.  I've locked it, so all future discussion will be in this forum.

[peeayebee]

Thanks. It was helpful reading thru that.

[M. Darcy]

 

My memory of old Morse episodes is atrocious, did the Masons finally get back at Morse?  Also, was it actually called the Masons or are you just referring to it that way? 

 

In the episode Masonic Mysteries from Season 4, Morse is framed (by Ian McDiarmid aka Emperor Palpatine) for murder.  They weren't even subtle about the Masons in the episode - there were masonic symbolism all over the episode.   Now I really want to watch the episode again - Mark Strong is also in it and Kevin Whatley's wife played the murder victim. 

[Milz]

Few things from the old thread in Masterpiece...

 

1. I don't understand how Captain Fake was able to go unrecognized by anyone (Frida's mom, his family, his regiment, the real Captain Batten's friends/family) for two decades. Okay, there is a certain amount of suspension of reality, but Captain Fake was a prominent member of Oxford society and Mrs. Captain Fake was a running for political office.

 

2.  At least this gives me more insight to the Morse-Lewis relationship. Many times Morse says something to Lewis as though Lewis is a dummy or uneducated. I'm getting the impression now that Morse isn't doing that to belittle or tease Lewis but more like Morse is recalling it from his past and is frustrated that Lewis didn't remember it or isn't familiar with it. 

 

3. This explains the limp.

 

4. Morse is hitting the bottle. I didn't think he started that early in his career.

 

5. It's beginning to explain why Strange became his superior.

[yeswedo]

Posts from June 30th and beyond have been moved from the old thread. Thanks @jjj for the assistance!

[Hyacinth B]

Speaking of. Did anyone notice a couple of throwaway lines, about 51 minutes into the episode (per my TiVo recording)? Morse and Thursday are interviewing the Todds (beauty pageant bigwigs) about the dead girl. Mrs. T comes into the room and announces to her husband that he has a phone call: "Val, it's Lane at SCDP." Mr. Todd turns to the officers and says "East Coast" and excuses himself. 

 

I'd probably have missed that but I'm watching the recording with captions on.

I caught the "SCDP" too, but missed the rest of it, too busy shouting "Sterling Cooper Draper Pryce!" to the DH. Still gave me a giggle though, especially when you think about Morse's growing passion for Jaguar motorcars. It's always good to find Mad Men references!

Edited July 4, 2014 by Hyacinth B

[Enigma X]

I am so glad this show is back. I just finished the first episode and loved it. I did not quite know who the murdered girl's dad was until the murderer was revealed, but I did guess that her dad was still alive after it was mentioned that he had died. I was not a fan of the twist but liked the episode as a whole.

[7-Zark-7]

I could never get into Inspector Morse, but Endeavor is fantastic.  The lead is a compelling actor.

[Endeavour]

I was a big fan of Inspector Morse (this username is quite old and, until now, not well known) but have not watched it in years. I thought this past ep of Endeavour was really good. I agree with those who weren't crazy about the ending, but it didn't surprise me. I thought a lot of the Morse stories were convoluted.

 

I like the relationship between Thursday and Endeavour, and I really like how we are now seeing more of how the Morse some of us know came about. I think we're now seeing a change in his mood from the first series; we're seeing the origins of his drinking and possibly the limp. I also thought the actor captured a bit more of Morse's personality. The scene at the police station that he later apologized for reminded me very much of Morse. Not the apology as Morse would rarely, if ever, do that, but the facial expressions and frustration seemed spot on to me.

 

I'm a little leery of the threat given about how they will go after everyone Endeavour knows - makes me fear for Thursday.

Edited July 5, 2014 by Endeavour

[kassygreene]

As I'm two weeks behind I've only just watched Trove, and I think I can respond to some of the questions upthread:

 

1.  If I remember correctly, both Captain Battan and Private Spurgis (sp??) were Japanese POWs (which explains the letter being dated after the war), and also the marriage between the original Private Spurgis (sp??) and Frida's mother was "not a love match".  Assuming an officer's identity and abandoning a family you didn't want to begin with is not such a stretch, and surviving probably four years as a Japanese POW will physically change a person.  Also, it's good odds that most of his original unit were killed or died in captivity.

 

2.  According to the canon, Morse had a lifelong adversarial attitude, if not contemptuous relationship, with the Freemasons.  I don't think it started here, but his advice to Strange was in keeping with his later views.

 

3.  That "pinky" ring was a signet ring, almost certainly masonic.  Pinky rings in the U.S. vernacular are usually vulgar, blinging things with big obvious gemstones (like a class ring on an acid trip).  Signet rings are very posh.

 

4.  I'm sufficiently OCD that I had to look it up.  If Trove occurs in line with the 900th anniversary of the Battle of Hastings (October 1066), then Lane Pryce was indeed still at SCDP - his sudden "resignation" (quoting wikipedia) happened about five months later.

Edited July 19, 2014 by kassygreene

[dcalley]

PBS sometimes puts little easter eggs in the Mystery episodes by making some of the letters red in the end credits. This episode: Venerable Bede

[deke]

I mean, I don't know why they had to go immediately for the incest thing, as I don't think that really added anything to the episode other than being revolting.

 

 

 

I believe they added incest to the plot to tie back with the daughter's frustrated and angry social commentary on women's contribution to British history as viewed by 1960's mores. In this view, disposability and anonymity dominate husbands', boyfriends' and fathers' regard of the women they brutalize. They sleep with their daughters because they can't recognize them as individuals. And if the patriarchy can't see them as individuals, them how can their history recognize the substantive contribution of women?

[Iju]

i like the actor of morse, because he isn't a benedict cumberbatch or any of the detectives in US TV nowadays (i know he isn't exactly a detective but bear with me). he's in the middle of very cute and normal looking, which is pretty darn refreshing for a male lead in these type of shows. he's not so unnatractive that one would ignore him, but his looks aren't enough to sorely pull in viewers, so you really have to pay attention to the story. so kudos go to the casting director. shaun not only has the looks but the talent. that is, if the director planned on my explanation of his looks exactly.

my favourite part of the episode was when the car backfired next to morse and he jumped, and fred quickly jumped to find logical reasons why he did, instead of admitting and possibly humiliating morse on his PTSD. as funny as it was, my reasoning is that PTSD was probably still seen as a mental illness and fred couldn't bear seeing that in morse.

poor morse, he just got back on the job from getting shot and gets beat up! on another after thought, i wonder if morse brought his sister to oxford since they both don't have much to go by at home.

interesting but nice to know morse doesn't vote. i don't either my friend. :)

Edited April 24, 2018 by Iju