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From Entertainment Weekly... 21 Sweetest Shipper Moments of 2014 By Lanford Beard, Mandi Bierly, Samantha Highfill on Dec 12, 2014 http://www.ew.com/ew/gallery/0,,20326356_20882846,00.html#30264161

This is a great interview with Katrina Law (no spoilers)... Katrina Law Talks The Midseason Finale of ARROW, Lazarus Pits, Talia Al Ghul, Flashbacks, and More! (Exclusive) Posted by: Alex Welch 6 days ago http://schmoesknow.com/katrina-law-talks-the-midseason-finale-of-arrow-lazarus-pits-talia-al-ghul-flashbacks-and-more-exclusive/32257/

Actions and fight scenes add excitement to superhero movies. But relationships - romances, bromances, and familial - are at the heart of the superhero movies that I enjoy. The Avengers didn't really have room or time for romance. It was difficult enough to allocate enough screen time to all of the disparate superheroes in one movie. However, I think the heart of that movie was not romance, but bromance. Like the classic romance, the superheroes meet and immediately can't stand each other. They are forced to work together and reluctantly develop trust and respect for each other, before eventually becoming close allies and friends. The Avengers also didn't need romance because each superhero had romance in their respective individual movies. Tony Stark had an eventual romance with Pepper Potts and a bromance with Rhodey. Thor had a romance with Jane Foster, bromances with the Warriors Three & Lady Sif, and conflicted familial relationships with his father Odin and his 'brother' Loki. Steve Rogers had a romance with Peggy Carter (incipient as it was), a beginning bromance with Sam Wilson, and a tragic bromance with Bucky Barnes.

I agree that the" three heroes" mentioned by DR mean costumed superheroes, unfortunately, because otherwise there will have been no change from before - Team Arrow has been fighting to save the city since season 1. But I thought MG had said that just putting on a costume doesn't automatically make you a superhero? So after six months of boxing lessons in her spare time (assuming she's still working full-time in the DA's office), Laurel goes from inept fighter to BC-level superhero? On the other hand, I hope the EPs don't try to speed up Laurel's transition to BC through some cheat device - like mirakuru or the Lazarus Pit. Roy shouldn't be that good either, but at least he's been training longer and training with weapons and learning offensive techniques from Oliver. If the third superhero is Ray Palmer as the ATOM, then his skills would have to come from tech (like Iron Man) unless he has secret fighting skills that we haven't seen yet. If the third superhero is Ted Grant as Wildcat, then he's still just an expert boxer and should be no more capable in the field than Diggle, a military veteran. Thea? I'm not sure about her being the third superhero. Oliver would be spending all his time in the field trying to protect her, and from her awkward fight scene with the Arrow in the last episode, she's not quite up to par yet anyway. Someone here once suggested that they should shorten Arrow's season to 13 episodes and spin off Black Canary and the Atom into their own shows, each 13-episodes long. I agree. Poor SA would get a break and could take on other acting projects during his hiatus. Then I could watch 13 episodes of Arrow that focused on Oliver and Team Arrow, and then change the channel when the other two shows were on.

DR said in that panel that when they were shooting the pilot, there was a lot of pressure (esp. on SA) because they were trying to do something that hadn't been done before on TV and everyone was comparing their show to Smallville, while they were really inspired by Nolan's Batman. While I don't want to see a Smallville 2.0, I think they miscalculated in trying to model Arrow too much on Nolan's Batman movies. There's a difference between going to see a dark-themed superhero movie in the theatres once or twice a year and tuning in every week to see a dark-themed superhero TV show. Like many people, I have a lot of stress in my real life and I watch TV for entertainment and enjoyment. While I enjoy darker shows mixed in with lighter shows for my TV viewing, there's dark and there's too dark. I don't want to watch TV to become sad and depressed every week. Arrow has had too many deaths of characters I liked (Tommy, Shado, Moira, Sara). Oliver is being made into too much of a doomed and martyred character who can never be happy - that has to change. I also watch Gotham and enjoy it even though it is a dark show. However, it has spots of humor and small victories. I also know that Bruce Wayne will grow up to become Batman and defeat the bad guys. I know Jim Gordon will survive to become Commissioner Gordon and retain his decency. On Arrow, I don't know anything anymore. Oliver is so different from the comics' Green Arrow, his story is different, the other characters are different, even the Green Arrow comic book canon is being revised as the series progresses (esp. in introducing John Diggle and the new version of Felicity Smoak). So I don't know if the EPs will end up with Oliver living happily ever after or dying in a blaze of glory.

I'm ambivalent about the possible introduction of the Lazarus Pit. On the one hand, if it is used to bring back Oliver with enhanced abilities, then it will make him more equal to other superheroes who have superpowers. On the other hand, the Lazarus Pit could be used to speed up Laurel's journey toward becoming a competent Black Canary (maybe used to save her after she is mortally wounded while ineptly fighting) - which would be a cheat and disrespect what Oliver and Sara had to go through.

I'm feeling a bit down about Arrow right now. So I'm resurrecting this July 2014 interview in which MG said that Oliver and Felicity have had a connection since Episode 3 of the first season and have had this connection for 43 episodes: http://www.tvfanatic.com/videos/marc-guggenheim-comic-con-q-and-a/?PageSpeed=noscript Also, watching this video makes me happy:

I think DR was just trying to be funny. He made fun of SA's hand twitch and archery excuse as well. I also hope he doesn't get in trouble for it.

Yeah, jbuffyangel's review was great. I debated whether to put it in this thread or the Media thread, but ultimately decided to put it in the Media thread because she analyzes a lot of aspects of "The Climb" episode. I had the same problem with a few reviews of that same episode that really focused on Oliver or Oliver & Felicity..

I agree with just about all of this review... Arrow S03E09: What Worked, What Didn't, and What Needs To Happen Next By Laura Hurley December 13, 2014 2:31 PM MST http://www.examiner.com/article/arrow-s03e09-what-worked-what-didn-t-and-what-needs-to-happen-next

I just watched the hour-long video of David Ramsey at the Phoenix Comicon 2014 Fan Fest (posted in the Spoilers thread) - he's so funny and so insightful... the quotes are my rough transcriptions from the video... On Felicity: "But the show really, really needed Felicity. And she was really a godsend - really, I mean, it was just me and Stephen brooding. Every. Single. Week. It was just - 'I'm gonna go kill 'im.' 'No, you can't. Life is more important than that, Oliver. You don't know what killing people does to the soul.' So thank God for Felicity. She came and brought some light to the Foundry. Otherwise, it just would've been, you know... And actually, to be honest with you, in terms of her personality, the character - her character's kind of more of a fit for The Flash - to be honest with you, just in terms of how they write, but, um, she's needed more where she is on Arrow. Thank God for her." Comparing Diggle to Oliver: "Diggle is Oliver three years later. He's already had his crucible. I always say that. His Afghanistan was his crucible, you know. And Oliver has yet to, uh, fully adjust to his crucible, which was the island. So ultimately that will be Oliver, right? Ultimately, hopefully he will be who Diggle is - a guy who's, who's okay with fighting crime and putting his life on the line and has a wife and a child.... Did you see the look on Oliver's face when he came to the hospital and baby Sara was born and he was just like - (DR makes face) - I know, that was all Stephen face, he was like 'I want that, I want that.' You know, so ultimately that's where that character's going and, you know, if everything works out, I guess it will be with Felicity." (Audience cheers). On Diggle: "Diggle says the stuff that you guys are thinking.... And he's probably the most fully adjusted character on the show." On Diggle's frequent frustration with Oliver's blind spots: "'I can't believe I'm risking my life for this idiot.' Sometimes I think he actually does think that." On Diggle's attachment to Oliver: "He's the brother that he couldn't save - Andy Diggle.... Andy's the brother that he couldn't save, and Oliver's the brother that he can save." On the Suicide Squad: "There's a big Suicide Squad episode coming up. At least one, maybe even two, this upcoming second half of this season. And HIVE, um, the fourth season." On what would make Oliver happy: "I think, for Diggle, he'd be like, 'Get w/Felicity, homie!'" (Audience cheers). On why Diggle's an Olicity shipper: "Diggle's always been about you have to get your humanity, right? 'You can't go around killing people, Oliver. It breaks a part of your soul off. Get with Felicity because you love her.' ... The thing about Felicity, and I think the reason why he wants them together, is because Diggle has always tried to push Oliver into being, um, being more in touch with his humanity, and he is truly, honestly in love with Felicity. So I think - unlike the other 578 women that he's slept with in Starling City. (Audience and DR laugh). I always laugh about that because I'm like, 'Felicity, I know you love Oliver, but didn't you see all these women he slept with?'... In terms of what he would want to make Oliver happy, I think he would want Oliver to embrace his humanity. And I think a big part of that would be embracing the relationship that he could potentially have with Felicity." OMG - you have to watch DR doing impressions of the other cast members (CH, SA, EBR, KC, PB) saying "I have to go to the store and get some milk" (starting at around 29:28 of the video) LOL, his impression of KC saying that line is a blank face while he says the line, and then DR waves his hand over his face and says "no movement". I can't believe he did that.

I'm still thinking about Maseo's presence during Oliver's fight with Ra's. Presumably Ra's selected who would be present. Nyssa's presence is understandable. But Ra's would pick someone he trusted. Maseo only joined the LOA a few years ago. Ra's would've investigated Maseo before allowing him to join the LOA. So Ra's should know about Maseo's history with both ARGUS and Oliver. So why would he pick Maseo to be the only other witness at that fight? Someone floated the theory that Ra's deliberately didn't skewer Oliver through the heart but wanted Oliver to survive for some reason. Perhaps he knew that Maseo would help Oliver?

I'm not sure how I feel about Arrow becoming a multiple superhero show (4 superheroes!). As I've said before, the more masked & costumed characters you have running around the city, the more it feels less like a real world and more like a comic-con fantasy world. And the less real the world seems, then the less real the characters seem - which reduces the emotional stakes (at least for me). I don't want to watch a show called Arrow that doesn't have Oliver in it. But I also don't want to watch a show called Arrow that alternates stories among multiple superheroes. It would be like adding the Flash to Arrow (instead of giving the Flash his own show) and still calling the show Arrow.

Retweeted by the Arrow Production Office... https://twitter.com/ArrowProdOffice https://twitter.com/Titta1706

jbuffyangel's review of "The Climb" (as usual, it's great)... The Brightest Light Before The Dark: The Climb Arrow 3×09 Review December 14th,2014 | jbuffyangel http://www.oliverandfelicity.com/2014/12/14/the-brightest-light-before-the-dark-the-climb-arrow-3x09-review/#more-4576 Heartbreaking!

This reviewer pointed out another hint of the Lazarus Pit: http://www.newsarama.com/22961-arrow-fall-finale-who-killed-sara-lance-oh-and-about-that-ending-and-what-s-next-spoilers.html So we've seen the following clues pointing toward Oliver's survival via some type of Lazarus Pit and/or magical herbs: Ra's first appearance on the show was emerging from water Oliver packed some herbs when he left Ra's last challenge was 67 years ago Fight took place on LOA consecrated ground There is steam rising nearby Ra's didn't skewer Oliver through the heart It was freezing cold, which would slow blood flow Maseo, a former friend/ally, was conveniently present at the fight Someone approached Oliver's body

As someone who never read the comics, I found this article on the Lazarus Pit informative. But I'll leave it to the comics experts to point out any errors. (It's only spoilery if you haven't watched "The Climb" yet.) Arrow SPOILERS Here! Everything you need to know about the Lazarus Pit! by Rose Moore ⋅ Posted on December 11th, 2014 at 9:56pm http://moviepilot.com/posts/2014/12/12/arrow-spoilers-here-everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-lazarus-pit-2501848?lt_source=external,manual

I went back and re-watched this episode. This time, I skipped over all the Ray Palmer scenes and Laurel family drama scenes. I just focused on Oliver's story and tried to watch with a positive and unjaded outlook. I also now had the benefit of reading other people's comments and insights. The result? What a big difference. I could now appreciate the beauty of Oliver's story when viewed on its own. I could also appreciate the wonderful acting nuances (esp. by SA and EBR), the irony of the Oliver-Thea scenes, the poignancy of the Oliver-Team Arrow goodbye scene, the bittersweet intimacy of the final Oliver-Felicity scene, and the stunning cinematography & choreography of the mountaintop trial-by-combat duel between Oliver and Ra's. Too bad my original viewing of this episode had Oliver's emotional journey undercut by the Ray and Laurel B plots.

I'm putting this review of "The Climb" in this thread because it includes a great analysis of Oliver's relationship with Felicity that explains how it affected Oliver's character development and how it's different from his past relationships. Other relationships are also discussed. It also includes the writer's perspective on why Oliver kissed Felicity on the forehead and why Felicity didn't say ILY back. If you like the O/F relationship, then you'll love this review. If you don't, then you may want to skip it. Arrow 3x09 "The Climb" (The Unmerited Favor) http://www.itsjustaboutwrite.com/2014/12/arrow-3x09-climb-unmerited-favor.html

Also from BuddyTV... TV's 17 Sexiest Scenes of 2014 By Chrissa Hardy on Thursday, December 11, 2014 http://www.buddytv.com/slideshows/arrow/17-sexiest-scenes-on-tv-in-2014-31429.aspx

I think this is a great analysis of Oliver Queen, and I also agree with the writer's praise for SA's acting (I've quoted excerpts below but the entire article is worth reading)... Who Is Arrow’s Oliver Queen? By Chris King on Dec 12, 2014 - Written by Laura Schinner (@lschin12), guest contributor to TVOvermind http://www.tvovermind.com/arrow/arrows-oliver-queen-246576 Also includes this brief analysis of Oliver & Felicity:

I'm still trying to understand why Felicity didn't say ILY back to Oliver. So I'm speculating that maybe it had something to do with her father. Maybe the last time she saw him, he was leaving for a work trip and said ILY to her and little Felicity said ILY back. Then he never returned and Mama Smoak believed that he had abandoned his family. So when Oliver was leaving and said ILY to her, maybe she had a sudden deja vu moment and wanted to say ILY back but couldn't because she was irrationally afraid that if she said it, he wouldn't return.

Has Thea ever met Felicity (other than that casual introduction by Oliver in the hospital as a friend when they were visiting Walter)? Why would she know to go to Felicity for this kind of help? Thea may only know Felicity as Oliver's former EA. Maybe Felicity will be the one to tell Thea about Oliver, while Diggle will be the one to tell Laurel. Laurel: "I don't believe Oliver's dead because I know him to his bones. And his bones tell me that he's not dead.... Of course, his bones did lie to me before when he went off on that boat trip with my sister, and I thought he was dead then. And his bones didn't tell me he was the vigilante, so I had to find out from Slade Wilson. But that's all past. Now his bones and I are BFFs." I hope Marc Singer's acting has improved since Beastmaster and V. Right after watching "The Climb", I had some incentive again for tuning in to Episode 10 when it returned in January. But with each successive spoiler coming out lately, my enthusiasm is plummeting... again.

I love these...

Reading reviews of "The Climb" actually makes me view that episode more positively (I now think I was a little harsh in my initial review)... Arrow: The Climb review Review Mike Cecchini 12/10/2014 at 9:50PM http://www.denofgeek.us/tv/arrow/242044/arrow-the-climb-review Arrow: “The Climb” In which Oliver dies the way he lived: shirtless and befuddled... By Alasdair Wilkins Dec 10, 2014 11:50 PM http://www.avclub.com/tvclub/arrow-climb-212881 ARROW: "THE CLIMB" REVIEW "SEE YOU ON THE MOUNTAIN." JESSE SCHEDEEN→ DECEMBER 10, 2014 http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/12/11/arrow-the-climb-review Arrow recap: 'The Climb' Oliver faces his toughest opponent yet: Ra's al Ghul. Ep. 09 | Aired Dec 10, 2014 Chancellor Agard on Dec 10, 2014 at 11:58PM http://tvrecaps.ew.com/recap/arrow-season-3-episode-9/