tv echo

I've been thinking about what someone said earlier - that Laurel has no motivation to become the Black Canary (if she does become the BC). Her previous acts of blackmail have shown that she is willing to bend or break the law to get what she wants (even though she is a lawyer and now an ADA). As a teen, she was willing to sabotage her sister's attempt to hook up with Oliver. She turned a blind eye to pre-island Oliver's infidelity. She was determined to save those files during the earthquake regardless of what anyone else said. I think she wanted both Tommy and Oliver, and would've kept them both on the hook if Tommy had lived. But Tommy died and she let Oliver go, out of guilt. While part of the prosecution team, she violated legal ethics in meeting with Moira without Moira's lawyer present and disclosed prosecution strategy. Another thing about that first blackmail act - As I recall, Laurel demanded that DA Kate Spencer let her keep her ADA job or else Laurel would expose the trap set up by the DA's Office to capture Helena that resulted in endangering public citizens' lives. If Laurel really was a hero and a good person, then she would have cared more about the public's safety and the integrity of the DA's Office, and gone to the press with the whole story, to ensure the DA's Office never did this again. Instead, she used it as a bargaining tool to get her job back. Laurel has a pattern of keeping her eye on the prize while doing what she must in order to achieve it. So maybe there's something she wants that can only be accomplished by turning vigilante. Maybe she thinks she's being a hero and that the end justifies the means (like Oliver when he first returned to Starling City). As for training, just like the addiction storyline, we'll see a few shots of her training and, voila, she's a trained fighter!

So I guess Oliver will be sleeping with both Katana and Waller in the flashbacks? Katie Cassidy's interview just further confirms my belief that the EPs are committed to making Laurel the Black Canary. They'll start by making Laurel an increasingly close ally and confidante of Oliver now that she knows he's the Arrow, slowly bringing her character front and center again.

I actually like Skye and think she has potential. They need to tone down her special snowflake status, keep her as part of the ensemble, and make sure the back story really is intriguing and not cliche. I don't want to watch the Skye Show (or the Skye & Coulson Show). I don't have a favorite character because I think all of the regular characters have flaws - esp. Coulson who has turned into one of the most annoying, unlikeable characters on the show.

I do have to say, however, that this episode was better than the recently aired episode of Under the Dome. I think that show and Falling Skies will be vying for the title of Most Stupid Sci-Fi Show on TV this summer. Which one will have more ridiculous plots and unintentionally laughable moments? At this point, Under the Dome is leading because Falling Skies still has potential (in my opinion).

This episode was one of the stupidest things I've seen on TV in a long time - and yet I couldn't stop watching the entire thing. I guess I'm not the only one (based on the ratings). Is this a real drama or a comic parody of a real drama? Oh, and now they've got the emerging love triangle - er, quadrangle - with Barbie, Julia, Rebecca and Sam.

I'm almost sorry I read this thread because it's putting me off of watching The Flash when it premieres. It sounds like the only thing original about it is the character of Barry Allen/Flash himself. You got the young genius scientists who look like they should be in college or high school (check), the cop father with a beautiful daughter who's loved by the hero (check), the geeky female friend (check), the potential love triangle (check), and the supernaturally-powered people (check). I can understand why they would copy elements from Arrow and Smallville, though. Despite those shows' flaws, Smallville did last 10 years (I believe) and Arrow has been successful enough to be renewed for a third season.

My imagination is running wild with nightmare scenes of Laurel and Felicity bonding in the new Arrowcave. Picture a scene where Laurel is giving relationship advice to Felicity on . Or: Laurel: My sister left me - again! Because everyone leaves me! (sob, sob) Felicity: I've never had a sister... but maybe I could be your friend? (They hug.) Terrible, I know. My hopes for Season 3? I'd like Oliver and Felicity's relationship to deepen in terms of friendship, shared confidences, and trust. At some point, I'd like Oliver to acknowledge openly that he does love Felicity in the romantic sense. They can even kiss. However, I don't want them to get involved sexually yet because, as soon as they do hook up, you know that the relationship will be short-lived (because, TV and CW, you know). I don't trust the EPs and writers to give Oliver a long-term girlfriend without messing it up at this point. Unless they can do it right, I'd rather continue the slow burn. That said, I don't want Oliver's romances to overwhelm the main "mythology" of the series. As for Laurel, I hope that she does not become the Black Canary and is either killed off or leaves Starling City to go live with her mother. I'm not holding my breath, though.

I think Team Arrow, including Diggle, will remain important on the show. Diggle has got his own storyline with the pregnant Lyla, has the whole Suicide Squad possibilities, and has the continued mystery with Deadshot and who ordered his brother's death. That's more than Felicity has received in terms of independent storyline and back story. I really think that they're going to use Season 3 to try to boost Laurel/KC's popularity with Arrow fans by propping up her character as part of Team Arrow and rehabbing her personality to make her more supportive. Laurel will be shown to be super competent as she trains in fighting, super helpful to Oliver, and super nice to Felicity and Diggle (whether KC can pull that off or whether it'll just come off as fake remains to be seen). At the same time, I surmise that Season 3 will also explore the Oliver and Felicity relationship with them agreeing to remain friends by season's end. That will set up Season 4 to bring Oliver and Laurel back together and to make Laurel the Black Canary (with the EPs hoping we'll have forgotten Sara by then). That's my speculation and my fear.

I think I'm on my way out, unfortunately. The show this season seems to be in the throes of multiple personalities. While I'm generally liking the Tom Mason/prisoner war camp storyline, it had a lot of WTF moments (as commented above). I also found it unbelievable that the alien ship room that Tom was left alone in conveniently had schematics of the ship's power supply and tether. I'm lukewarm about the Ann/rebel leader storyline. I dislike the Matt/Hitler Youth camp storyline, which seemed to belong to a different show. I absolutely hate the Lexi as goddess storyline. It was like a parody of a bad sci-fi movie. The scene with Lexi and Ben, where Lexi gets mad and her hair starts blowing back from her face, was laughable. The Lourdes character now seems out of the blue. Before. she was religious, sure, but she was also studying to be a doctor by Anne's side and seemed pretty sane. Now she's all crazy keeper of the gate. I also felt uncomfortable during that scene between Maggie and Ben where it seemed like they were hinting at something romantic (possible future love triangle with Hal?). In past seasons, Maggie obviously being much older than Hal (under 18 at the time?) was disturbing but it got a hand wave. Now Maggie (the actress playing her) seems to have aged a lot and looks old enough to be Ben's mother.

I don't know why I'm still watching this show. Giada and Alton have become insufferable. I can't stand half of the contestants, especially Sarah and Lenny. Why bother to keep up the fiction that the winner has to be a great cook and impress as a "cooking authority"? The judges just want someone with an outsize personality who is good at faking being a good cook on TV.

I can't stand Laurel - for a myriad of reasons already discussed, having to do with how the character has been written and how she has been portrayed by KC. However, I've been trying to be more open to her Season 3 possibilities by reading others' thoughts on the character. I found this article (despite the headline, there's nothing spoilery in the article - it's all speculation; also, I've used spoiler tags to hide anything remotely spoilery): Arrow spoilers: Is season 3 Laurel’s time for Black Canary transformation? Published June 26, 2014, by Sarah J. http://primetime.unrealitytv.co.uk/tomorrow-arrow-season-3-laurels-time-black-canary-transformation/ However, I think the writers need to establish Laurel as the Black Canary without a relationship with Oliver. It’s evident that on screen Stephen has a lot more chemistry with Emily than he does Katie. This doesn’t mean that Laurel cannot become a successful version of the character on the show though. She’s sure going to have a lot to contend with in season three. Especially, after her Dad Detective Lance collapsed at the very end of the episode from his injuries caused by Slade’s mens assault on the city. It’s unlikely that the show would kill off Lance. He originally hated the Arrow, he grew to work alongside him and started to progress from the man who was hunting him to the Starling version of James Gordon – working for the safety of his city. Rumours are that Even so, I think season three is the right time to explore Laurel as a character and progress her towards suiting up. At the end of the day, Black Canary is a key ally in the Arrow universe and Katie Cassidy deserves a lot better than what she’s got from the show for the majority. Laurel ended the season strongly and damn just continue giving the girl positive character progression already. I added the spoiler tags. While I think the writer makes some good points, I couldn't help but cringe at the statements I've bolded in the quote above. First, although it is true that KC hasn't been incorporated a lot into Arrow's main story because she didn't know his identity until the end of season 2, KC has been given a lot of dramatic plot material that she could've used to make Laurel a more likeable, sympathetic character, but she didn't. Second, Laurel didn't get her job back by being a changed person, she blackmailed her way back into her job. Third, I still don't see how Laurel will add anything to Team Arrow that isn't a contrivance (kinda like her forced involvement in the team at the end of season 2).

I moved my Laurel comments to the Hopes and Fears (Speculation) thread because they were about Season 3.

The difference (between messing around with classic fairy tales as portrayed in Disney movies and messing around with Frozen) is that the previous Disney princess movies are all in the past, but a Frozen 2 movie will be in the future. They won't want to screw up their new franchise by damaging Elsa's popularity. A natural storyline for Frozen 2 would be giving Elsa a love interest. I can see Disney setting up a back story for that in this TV show, leading up to and building anticipation for the new movie. Cross-marketing between TV and movies seems to be the thing nowadays.

Moved to Speculation thread.

Given the huge success of the Frozen movie, there's likely going to be a Frozen 2 movie. So anything they do on this show has to be consistent with that second movie - kinda like how Agents of SHIELD has to be consistent with the Marvel movies. Frankly, I think it was a mistake to bring in Elsa to this show, but I guess they're trying to up the ratings.

I always had trouble believing that Laurel deeply loved Oliver. Given everything we've learned in the past two seasons, I find it easier to believe that she loved the money and status that would come with marrying Oliver. When she believed that Oliver had died, she moved on to Tommy Merlyn, another rich guy from a powerful family. Then when Oliver returned from the dead and she found out he still had feelings for her, after Tommy broke up with her, she's back to Oliver. I find a lot of outfits worn by women who play lawyers and other professionals on TV to be ridiculously inappropriate for the workplace. I recall that in one episode, Laurel was wearing a midriff-baring, sleeveless top and red pants while at work.

If Thea shoots Laurel in the face with an arrow, then Laurel would need cosmetic surgery.... opening the way for the role to be recast with a different actress.

I'm not giving up on this show yet. I watched all previous seasons and I'm hoping the next couple of episodes bring some clarity to the mess that was the first episode of season 4. In addition to my other concerns about Lexi's aging, I'm puzzled as to why she suddenly has blonde hair. I get that she's wearing white and now her hair is blonde. But her mother is played by Moon Bloodgood, who's half-Korean. And both her parents are brunettes. Was the lighter hair color meant to symbolize her purity and god-like status? If so, then that's kinda racist, isn't it? EDITED TO ADD: When I first saw the older blonde Lexi, I immediately flashed back to watching Stephen King's The Stand mini-series. After the Nadine character (played by Laura San Giacomo) had sex with the Devil, her hair turned from brown to white. Lexi looks like a younger version of Nadine - same center-parted, long blonde hair, same round face with large eyes and slightly pug nose. So maybe, if I'm giving the writers the benefit of the doubt, Lexi's sudden blondeness is a sign of trauma.

The TV Guide article about the Falling Skies premiere referred to The Ghost as Tom's vigilante alter ego (see Spoilers thread for rest of article):

I've been researching Arrow EP Andrew Kreisberg and someone else had commented in some thread (don't recall where) that he wrote a series of DC Comics graphic novels about Green Arrow and Black Canary together. My fears about the direction the show is going with respect to Oliver, Laurel and Black Canary have been aggravated by finding one of those graphic novels in which GA (Ollie) proposes to BC (Dinah): http://www.amazon.com/Green-Arrow-Black-Canary-Game/dp/1401227090/ref=pd_sim_b_3?ie=UTF8&refRID=17YCZ6YHCK2NHF4MGQ5C Also read some of the customer reviews. I'm sure AK still gets royalties from those graphic novels so it's in his best interest to promote the GA/BC relationship. These graphic novels, along with AK's previous interview comments, indicate to me that AK is very invested in the Oliver/Arrow and Laurel/Canary relationship and will not let it go easily.

Unfortunately, we're stuck with an EP - Andrew Kreisberg - who actually wrote a series of DC Comics graphic novels featuring Green Arrow and Black Canary, including one in which GA (Ollie) proposes to BC (Dinah): http://www.amazon.com/Green-Arrow-Black-Canary-Game/dp/1401227090/ref=pd_sim_b_3?ie=UTF8&refRID=17YCZ6YHCK2NHF4MGQ5C So that's the universe that AK is probably going to have the tv show exist in...

I don't think the molar scene really was EBR's fave scene. Watching the WB interview, I don't think she was serious. I think she had to come up with an answer fairly quickly and she pulled that scene out of the air and was also trying to be funny.

The trick is to just not make the show all about the romantic relationship. Look at Tony Stark and Pepper Potts in the Iron Man and Avengers movies.

I'm still leaning towards the EPs remaining committed to making Laurel the Black Canary. But IF they've changed their minds, I can see two possible scenarios - both ways to try to make Laurel a more popular character with fans: 1. Laurel is faced with the option of becoming the Black Canary (upon Sara's death?) and she chooses not to go down that path. 2. Laurel does go dark and slowly becomes a villain, perhaps starting out with good intentions (ends justify the means).

I had forgotten how good this episode was - my thoughts: Detective Lance and his daughters - I really believed the love between Lance and Sara. PB and CL really sold it for me. Their scenes were heartbreaking. In contrast, I never really buy that Laurel loves her father because of the way she speaks to him. Sara as the Canary - Loved her fight scene in the Clock Tower. You can tell it's really CL in some of those shots. I try to imagine KC doing that same fight scene and can only hope that they find a great stuntwoman who greatly resembles KC in both face and body. Laurel - Cringed at her "everyone leaves me" self-pity speech. Everything really is about her, in the world according to Laurel. Also, I agree that she could've gotten out of being on the prosecution team due to her longstanding relationship with the Queen family. In the real world, she would never be assigned to that team in the first place. She just sounded more concerned with her new job than anything else ("But I just got this new job, Ollie! I have to prosecute your mother and try to put her to death if she doesn't take my fantastic plea deal. How else am I going to succeed in the D.A.'s office?" (my words)). Moira and her children - In the jail scene where Oliver and Thea convince Moira not to take the plea deal but to fight, they say that they will still love her and support her regardless of what secrets are revealed at trial. Ironic, considering how they each react later in the season when Moira's BIG secret is revealed.