Emily Thrace

Okay I may be the only one here but I love this show. I've always hated Evelyn Bouchou's character on Orphan Black(cuz really such a feminist show should not have such a stereotypical flat love interest character) but I really love her here. I liked the commander's little speech the the goys about "underestimating the fairer sex". He clearly has her her back. I just hope we don't see her dragged into a love triangle with Alfredo and her boyfriend. I also have to say I like that while the show is being inclusive but isn't being unreaslistic. Very few things drive me nuts like period peices trying to be "topical" or edgy and adding in characters that would never existed or giving chacters viewpoints that wouldn't exist for generations. Including marginilized people just for the sake of it feels patronizing and Mary Sueish to me and it makes me hate the character. I quit watching Strange Empire because it felt more like TPTB were trying to get a blackout in minority bingo than create a realistic period peice(that and it was downright grim). Aurora and Alfred are part of team not just to show how far we've come but because their differences actually make them better team members. Actually all the characters fell very real to me which is quite the acomplishment for a show two epsiodes in. I also like Neil hes hard but steady. Hes a good everyman character. I also have to laugh that the "American" is played by a guy from Yellowknife.

Sly and Megan are adorable this is one instance where I would be glad to see a miracle cure. I kept waiting for a nod to Doc and Happy's relationship upgrade but I was disappointed on that score. I liked Paiges handling of the Walter client relations at the beggining it showed her role in abelieveable way. As for why Paige keeps going into dangerous situations I think her reasons are two fold. Firstly I think she truly believes that Walter and the team have her back and would do anything to get her out of trouble. (Which Walter has actually proven at this point imo) Secoundly I think Paige believes the work Scorpion does is important and worth whatever risk is involved. I hesitate to judge her on that for one there are plenty of female cops and soldiers who make that same choice. I also feel like there is slippery slope there feminism wise should single mothers be barred from certian positions based on what might happen? I get that parenthood means putting your child first but the world doesn't stop being a risk just because you I have child. Even if it is a risk , Scorpion is also clearly the opportunity of a lifetime for both Paige and Ralph. I also have to wonder if we would even be having this conversation if Paige was a single father. As annoying as some of the interview and its fallout was. I like that the show is giving Walter real flaws.

Okay that actually pisses me off a little. Even if her movie career was lacking Joan Rivers was as much a part of th Oscars as the red carpet leaving her out seems petty.

All the talk about Noel Fishers acting brings to mind one of the smaller moments I loved this episode. Before Ian comes in when Mickey is just sitting there staring at his son like the baby is time bomb about to explode. Which was a nice reminder that Mickeys indifference to his son isn't really about his paternity. Mickeys terrified of fatherhood not just because he has no idea how. Given how he was dragged up I almost can't blame him for thinking his son is better off with out him. Or worse Mickeys terrified he might become his father. It might be interesting to see how he reacts to what Ians done next episode

Its a little nuts but I like it I also like the idea that shes just happily married to Jarvis. I think its just the Auschwitz anniversary coverage I've been reading but the idea of some escaping the Nazis and living happily ever after has its own appeal. I also had a thought about Thonpson. I wonder if part his attitude about women is because he lost someone during the war. There were more than few women who lost thier lives fighting for the allies as things like nurses and pilots. It would explain his attitude towards Peggy, if he's buried someone who wanted to an equal before. That speech was a bit too personal to be just about Peggy.

Except for a lot Beths haters their reasons are more about shipping or fanon than anything else. Thats what actually almost funny about "beth fans only like her because of Darryl" accusation. Cuz, Beth definitely had a few fans before Still but she really didn't have many hater either. If she had been paired with Rick I suspect several of her most vocal haters probably wouldn't have given a damn about the character either way. The hate for Beth is OTT considering what the character has done, especially considering the heinous acts commited by others on the show. I'm not saying hating on Beth is sexist (although using gendered insults like"princess" can be) shipper wars are pretty equal opportunity. I think I was just hoping some might see past the hate and be objective about the sexism tptb are showing. That's why I brought Lori and Andrea into it because there was definite sexism in thier stories too and if the writers did it to them why is it so hard to believe Beth is any different?When I brought up Beth role in season three I was reffering to sexism on the writers part not the groups (Although I do think there was some sexism within the group itself. Otherwise Andrea wouldn't have been trying so hard to prove herself). I'm saying that the writers choice to have Beth hold the baby instead of a gun in season three was sexist on their part. Its a choice that would never have happened if Beth had been Ben. Hell they had a Ben on the show who was around Beths age (he was part of Ty's original group) and he was shown doing more fighting than his father.I'm not saying Beth needed to be as active as her sister but she could have done more easily. I also think even when you remove Darryl from the equation Beth death is still sexist. It all goes back to the same question of why Beth. Afterall why not kill Noah or Carol? It simple they wanted to get the biggest emotional reaction out of audience and thought the pretty young blond would get that best. Its the same trope behind Missing White Women syndrome or why women are more likely to die a bloody death in horror as rule. Its a nasty trend and means making women victims when there is no need to. I do think Gimple and Kirkman have bungled explaining Beth's death . For one their version don't match each other or anyone elses I think Kirkman has actually contradicted himself at one point. I get that they didn't expect Beth to get involvement they did but by not having a clear message in the aftermath the come off as flippant at best and liars at worst. I actually think the lack of acknowledgement at this point is simply to avoid fanning the flames. That said I wouldn't be shocked if we get a reddit post that offers some backstage drama reason for it all in a year or so. That what happened the last time the writers(in this case on Boardwalk Empire) killed someone off in defiance of all story logic.

2. That cuts both ways. If you truly stand by your opinion there is no need 2. If you want me to respect your post you need to qualify it as such. Your statement was presented as fact. 3. Unless you have spoken to the majority of Beth fans (Which considering EK just hit a million twitter followers thanks largely to walking dead fans that would be quite feat) you can't really say why Beth fans like Beth. So your statement was hyperbole based on limited or non-existant research or as we say on the Rez, bullshit. Now to get back to my original point. Beth was physically an adult in season 3 so comparing her to Carl really isn't the same. No one was bothered by Jimmy going out to save Rick. The only difference there is that Jimmy is a boy. Even the idea that Beth wouldn't have the skills doesn't hold water since the main point of the time jump was to show how much tougher the group was. The writers admitted they struggled to find something for Beth to do. I like that Beth is a less aggressive character but there really was no need for her to be as passive as she was in season three. There's a middle ground there that the writers don't seem to realize exists. I definitely feel like there was a lot of sexism in who was on the A-team in season three. TPTB included Maggie as a token but Beth and Carol were both excluded for what seems like fairly obvious sexism. When it comes to the show in general I feel like there is definitely a nasty trend with how the womens stories are treated. It feels like the women react to what happens to them but the men are still in charge of thier own stories. The men experience losses aren't defined by them the way the women are. Daryl lost Merle but its only brought up once while Michonne losing Andrea is brought up multiple times. Alone had Darryl trying to understand his past but Carol was still wallowing in hers. Not to mention how Michonne and Maggie have taken a backseat this season. Hell judging by what I've heard about whats in store for these two TPTB may have pissed of every female fan by the time the seasons out. It may be just a tv show but its the number one show on television . If they are not going to treat their female characters as equals get away with it why the fuck would anyone else bother? That why I think the backlash is important the only way tptb are going to get the message is if their sexism actually costs them something.

Except Miconne is a victim of her boyfreinds negligence, Tara was a victim of the governor, Sasha a victim of bald cop, and Carol is a professional victim. In a vacumn the womens stories don't look that bad but compare them to the mens and it gets ugly. Glenn and Darryl's stories are about them finding themselves in the new world but Carol and Maggies are about how this world is wearing them down. Compare how Maggies sexual assault was handled compared to Carls. Tyrese may be a baby carrier but he shown as weak and foolish. The governor was just crazy but Mary was a victim of her attackers. The only woman who hasn't been made a victim is Rosita but I'm sure its just a matter of time.I just love how people who have nothing to do with Beth fans know what they think and why they do what they do. Beths fans aren't just faceless mass to me they're poeples whose names and stories I know. If you don't believe me check out yhe Bethyl thread over on spoilthedead every one there could give you a list of why they like Beth. All this crap about EK's acting feels more like victim blaming to me. No matter what shit TPTB pull its never their responsibility. Lori's a bitch, Andrea's a slut, EK is a drama queen somehow its always the womans fault .

Thats bullshit, plenty of people cared about Beth for who she is. They may hang out on Bethyl boards but thats just because they tend to be a safe haven from the verbal shrapnel. The fact is Beths story has been dogged by sexism the whole way through. Why wasn't she clearing the prison with her sister? Or even going on runs in season 4? If she had been a seventeen year-old boy it wouldn't even have been a question. Instead because shes a girl she gets to hold the baby. Jennifer Lawrence couldn't have made much of an impression with the scraps EK got in season 3. For fucks sake Carol got more lines than she and Carol was supposed to be dead by episode 5. EK has years of dance training and spent all kinds of time flying around on a wire (She played Tinkerbell on Broadway before the show). All of which can make for great action scenes. Except we're never going to see that because TPTB see female characters as disposable and have no interest in women as anything but victims.

Another possibility for Angie is that she could be Tony Starks mother. It woul explain why shes so important without her being a bad guy. All the gags about Howies love life make wonder if we won't see her here. Plus her rapid fire chatterbox speech kinda sounds like Tony to me. I agree with whoever upthread suggests that Thompson is Peggys husband. I don't see CMM signing on for the role as is. Plus Peggy's granddaughter is pretty blond in winter soldier.

I think while Lip dropping out might break my heart I can understand why the show would do that . This show is always been at its best when its about fucked up people doing fucked up shit. Nothing would disapoint me more than if this show became the story of six extraordinary ghetto kids who succeed despite the odds. This show has done an amazing job of being truthful about how people like the gallghers live without being patronizing. If they are going to keep that up realistically some of these kids will crash and burn. I think thats why Lips job interests me a bit. Construction might actually be a solid option for Lip. It would give him the money and challenge he needs but he could still suceed on his terms. I think thats what really bothers Lip about school it means conforming to a point. I think he feels if he goes to far from where he grows up he validating all shit he ever taken for being a ghetto kid Fiona s man drama is so temporary its not even funny. I don't mind it cuz Fi needs someone to drop some home truths and then move on. Fi needs to learn relationships can be about more than drama I really despise Stimmy so I'm dreading his return. I just hope last year was rock bottom and we can see her start building herself up.

The issue I see with homeschooling is that Ralph can't just go along on top secret missions. Even part time child care if you hire a student is expensive. Paige is probably making more than she did as waitress but I don't think anyone at scorpion is raking it in

Yeah that was definitely a stretch. I was worried that pit was going to be too deep and Walter was going to break a leg.There was enough good in this episode to overlook that though. I loved Cabes line about Toby watching Happy it was all in the delivery. I kind of wish they had used him more in this having been in that situation with Walter and the only other parent on the team he might have had better insight than Toby. Although I did like Toby's medical skills coming in handy. I don't think the show needs to work as hard as it did ti show he has valueable skills (and if nothing else he's good tv) but its always good to be shown how smart these guys are rather than just have them tell us all the time. Something else slightly sadder that occured to me is that is that raising a kid like Ralph is bit like raising a child with developmental delays. In that you kind of have to let go of "normal" expectations and judge thier milestones relative to thier experience. I don't think Ralph was ever going to have a "normal" childhood and I think Paige is accepting that but Drew is stillin denial

Whoa tonight was intense. I like that they're letting Violet do more than snark and I really like her relationship with Baxter. Its sweet and realistic. I like when the show doesn't go for the easy answers. I do think Violets dad may still show up. I half expect her to google James Sutcliffe and find out the truth.

I think Megan actually has a rarer form of MS that is fatal. I'm pretty sure it was given a specific name a couple episodes ago. Although I totally get being annoyed at tv getting your illness wrong. I get people acting like I'm some kind of drama queen because they think asthma is a kids problem largely thanks to tv. Ironically Asthma is often more serious and deadly than tv gives it credit for.

Actionmage your right it should be a macro. I know I should have hated tonights episode it was utter emotional manipulation. Except its was fun emotional manipulation, and it has enough character moments to still feel earned. I even felt for Paige tonight talking a kid so close in age to Ralph through a nightmare is not easy. She made a real contribution tonight. I almost wish her story wasn' t so wrapped up in Walter so she could do more working with people and not just being the newb so much. My personal favourite Gallo moment was when he welcomed Happy's dad. It was a nice touch that shows how much Cabe cares about the group as a whole even though he and Happy haven't intetacted much. That said, I wish they would tone down his mother hen moments with Walter a bit . Him yelling "Walter" is in danger of becoming its own Macro. Its not a bad character note, I can see Cabe being terrified of losing his only remaining "child". I just think he needs to recognize that Walter isnt a kid anymore and have a little faith in his judgement. Not to mention a pro like him should realize being over invested in Walter could end up causing problems. Although the episode where the higher ups try replacing Cabe with someone less involved is probably being written as we speak. Something else I noticed is Walter watching Meagan(cuz thats how the Irish actually spell it show) and Sylvester's moment under the mistletoe. I can just see him being an overprotective jerk and calling it "logic" already. I know just about ecmo to know what Walter did probably wouldn't work (for one most people don't have enough blood for fourty feet of tubing) but this is not a show for nitpicking that stuff so I'll forget it.

Okay for one a Red Shirt(as Trekkie the misuse of this terms bugs) is specifically a character who has no character focus or development . Beth hasn't qualified as one since 18 Miles Out. Secondary character I'll give you but eve thats a stretch given that she's had almost as much screentime Michonne has by this point. That's why I don't put her death in the same category as Amy or Jim who were redshirts. Something to note about Women in refridgerators is that its not just the trope itself thats problematic. Its that it happens almost exclusively to women. With Beth its possible thats not what the show was trying to do I just think the shows track record with women speaks for itself . Even without Beth death the show could be easily be called sexist for its treatment of Lori and Andrea and the lack of development for female characters compared to their make counter parts. Its not speculation that Beth died solely to further other characters. Its pretty much what Kirkman said on the Talking Dead verbatim. Literally the only other reason he even alluded to was its a ZA people die which isn't really a reason for Beth specifically to die. Greybunny its funny you should bring up Twilight just last night I was reading a bunch of Beth fans making fun of it and how terrible it was. Those Beth fans are definitely not Twihards. I think brushing aside young girl concerns as silly and unimportant is actually a big part if the problem here. Beth gave voice to a group that does get dismissed a lot and they've decided to fight back. Hell even in this thread they been called "spoiled brats" or entitled when what they're doing is trying to right a wrong. Just because you don't agree with why they are doing it doesn't negate that Beths fans have noble intentions. Even if I didn't like Beth at all I think I woul respect these fans for having the gut s to actually take a stand. Kikismom your right about it not coming out right in an attepmt to be clear I'll start from the beginning. About a year ago on TWOP we were discussing the possibility of EK and NR dating I said something like "I hope not if only because if it ends badly NR isn't the one who would be killed off" . A remark that seems fairly ironic now. I actually could give a rats ass who either of them are dating at this point but I did notice that NR went to EK halloween show. So I doubt that what happened in this case. I just think TPTBs explanation is lacking and EK seems rather upset for someone let go for story reasons. I can't shake the idea that someone isn't telling the whole story. I mean why does it matter how NR and AL found out why go out of your way to discredit your actress why not simply say she misspoke or was misinformed? Like I said above backstage shenanigans make more sense than what we've been told so far.

I think its less Beth is younger and more the writing for Andrea was so bad Andrea had more Haters than fans by the end. There were also various plot related reason to kill Herschel, Andrea and T-Dog . Beth is the only character killed solely to further other characters . Not only is it a big part of why its sexist but I think its part of why people are angry. Its one thing to have TPTB kill off your favourite character for the story its another to hear she essentually didn't matter and that other characters are more important. I also think there are quite a few people like myself who feel they gave the show a secound chance to do better by its female characters after what happened to Lori and Andrea and TPTB just blew it. A fairly large number of Beth fans loved Andrea too and now feel the show has fooled them twice. As for Carol the show was throwing out the death anvils pretty hard so I wouldn't be surprised if she was supposed to die but wriggled out of it again. Besides if anybody brought that on its probably Carol fans themselves, I know I've heard more than a few reports of them being assholes and doing things like taunting Beth fans about her death. Also I know someone upthread accused EK of lying about her version of events about how she and the cast found out about her leaving. For one her story has been consistent throughout multiple interviews and is backed up by NR version of events. So if someones lying I don't think its EK. I think thats something else are responding too it almost feels like TPTB are hiding something or that there ismore to the story. (Kirkmans reaction to EK on the talking dead was truly odd as welll) Hell if it wasn't for NR turning up at EKs gig I'd probably be thinking those two actually did hook up and TPTB killed EK off because it ended badly and they didn't want to deal with the fallout. (Which is what I predicted last year actually). Frankly that would make more sense than the explanation we did get.

Beth death is sexist because : 1 It treated Beth as an object . Beths death had nothing to do with Beth as a character and was all about fueling Daryls arc. 2 It shows Daryl's story as more important than Beths 3 It enforces a lot of old tropes about tragic female figures. Beth can't take on someone like Dawn because she is too "emotional"(If there is anything truly sexist about this show its how it consistently says emotions equal weakness) and therefore fragile to do so. It makes her a victim rather than someone in charge of her story. 4. No male character would have been allowed to go out the way Beth did. As for Beth death being about Maggie I think the show just proved how little it cares about its female characters. If the show truly wanted to shock me it would give Maggie more than a third of the screentime Daryl will inevitably get from Beths death. Hell "Maggies" story will probably all about how Glenn pulls her back from the edge the same way her asault by the governor was.

I'm pretty sure the references to self harm are because the person who created the petition has a history with that.(I believe I've seen her around tumblr) So its less about Beth fans in general and more about that particulat fan. As for th cast I don't see any one doing that most seem to feel the cast aggrees with the fans. I think SG is fair game though I don't think he deserves to be personally attack but professionally he should answer for this. As showrunner anything that happens on the show is his responsibility and that includes any blowback. Kirkman will probably get hit too as he was defending the decision but given what goes on in the comics he probably deserves it anyway

I think Beth fans are pissed off. Hell Im pissed off. Beth death in addition to being poorly thought it was brutally sexist. Killing Beth off to fuel Daryl's story is sexist and this petition is addressing that. There are a lot of reviews pointing out how thatt but I think a fan response is warranted. I don't know about the rest of you but I am sick of women's stories being treated as second best. Usually I'm the first to say its just a tv show but its really notin this case. Its not just about Beth its about dozens of characters and how media treats women as a whole. I may not end up changing much but I am going to use my feminist mouth to make as much noise as I can on this. I'm sick of being fed shit by networks like AMC and then thanking them for it. We probably won't get Beth back but we might make few heads roll over this besides Beth's. Afterall I did help Lennie James get his job back once, you would be amazed at what a bunch of pissed off fans can do.

1) There is more than one interview with Norman Reedus stating he is single at SDCC so I think "girlfriend" is a very strong word for that relationship.2) I would be curious to see where you see NR asking EK to stop at SDCC . I've seen that proposed as a theory but never seen actual proof. Ive seen people who have analyzed every eyebrow twitch of that interaction not see that so Im curious about your sources. 3. NR went out of his way to attend EK performance at Eddies Attic so I think they're more than good. 4 SDCC was well before the finale was shot for all EK or NR knew Beth and Daryl would reunite at that point. Frankly I wouldn't blame EK if she was pissed off or upset at TPTB. Beth death was senseless and stupid on pretty much every posible level even Kirkman couldn't really justify it. Even Andrea got the excuse that it was so what happened would cost something EK didn't get that much. Not too mention fridging(just google women in refridgerators if you don't get it.) Beth is truly sexist. I almost wonder if Kirkman being there isn't part of what set her off. I mean its one thing to fired because your boss is a sexist asshole its another to have to sit there and pretend he's not on live tv.

I think thats actually what made Daryl's journey in Still so important though. While Rick and the others have helped Daryl grow by accepting Beth is the one who made Daryl see that he truly needs to change and even more importantly made him want. Rick and the others made him see the value in himself but Beth made him see that his past was killing him. Even nore he showed the worst of his past and she still accepted and even respected him which is huge for Daryl. Daryl probably always felt like anyone who saw where he came from would reject or pity him thats why he hadn't done it before. Beth made him feel like his past wasn't as big as he made it out to be which is why I think he is trying to deal with it now. Also I think the wound Tyrese had is a big clue to the timeline in The Grove. It had time to get infected and then heal (since it clearly wasn't bothering him when they left) which would take at least a week realistically. I also don't think Lizzie would have gone from deluded to actually murderous overnight. Its just not how mental illness works Most people who do things like that don't snap they form a plan in their minds before they take action.

A couple of the AMC character bios state that they were on the road several weeks. I feel like events The Grove took at least a week maybe two on thier own. I think we might get a small time jump after the MSF but no more than a month or two. TPTB aren't going to want to age Judith too much before they reach DC.

I really don't think it had anything to do with Carol. (If only because some small part of that episode has to not fucking be about the shows emotional blackhole). I think it was about what Beth said about letting go of his past. I think its part of Daryl ongoing arc of being open and trying to change. He wants to be better and thinks the book can help him.