statsgirl

I know I'm going to be so disappointed when I hear the actual line on the show because these scenarios? So much better. The real Diggle and Felicity (not the ones who are plot contrivances) should believe neither the sword evidence or a video. How many times has Oliver been wounded by a sword? Not to mention, this is the Malcolm Merlyn who put Oliver's sweat on the arrows that killed Sara. (How did he do that? Did he have Oliver's sweat stored up from season 1, just in case?) Nor should they believe a video unless it's Oliver on an autopsy table with his guts spilling out and even then they should suspect it was faked. I could see Arsenal and Buckle Canary off defending the city if Diggle were away looking for Oliver. Even if they don't end up finding him (although I really hope they do, at the end of 312), at least they would be true to the characters. If I were writing, I'd have Felicity and Diggle believe that Oliver is dead, thus giving the audience scenes of their reactions and EBR and DR scenes for their supporting actor Emmy submission), and then at the end of the episode, finding out that the body they were told about isn't Oliver's, and told where he is. Felicity stops looking for him (because she knows where Oliver is and where he isn't) and Diggle leaves to get him back while Felicity holds Laurel's and Roy's hands.... er run tech support for BC and Arsenal. But it probably won't happen because MG will think of something much more clever [/sarcasm]. That's the fic you should write. And send it to Barrowman, I bet he'd love the idea.

Didn't Oliver think that Slade was dead? I thought when the mirakuru first surfaced in Starling City, he said that everyone who had been injected by Ivo's serum was dead. Would Slade have gone to Starling City on his own, checked out the place and Oliver's family, and then disappeared to be a mercenary and make lots of money so he could carry out his revenge on Oliver? But that doesn't make sense either because how could he know that Oliver had survived the sinking of the Amazo?

I figure there is a flashing neon sign "This way to the Arrow Cave". Or there's a Big Bad Handbook with directions. I want to see how Diggle and Felicity react to Oliver dying. Who takes charge? How do they handle it, by mourning or by using grief to propel them further into Oliver's crusade to honor him? Other than that, there's nothing much I'm interested in till Slade gets there in 3x14, and I'm not even sure about that since it's going to be a flashback episode. I know nothing much will happen with Merlyn for the next few episodes. I don't mind Roy but I'm surprised at how little interest I have in seeing what's up with him, Thea, Ray and Laurel while Oliver is gone and/or insane.

Not to mention, Thea was on the amnesia drug when she killed Sara (if she actually did). So while I find it hard to believe she could forgive Slade, she doesn't really have a leg to stand on in terms of drugs and killing.

I think Tommy was a Lost Boy after his mother died. Malcolm disappeared for years and he seemed to end up at the Queen household because he had no family of his own. I imagine that Tommy took after his mother or maybe she played Malcolm false and someone else was Tommy's father because he was nothing like Malcolm at all. I think one of the reasons Tommy was attracted to Laurel is that she was so definite, she had plans and she was going to stick to them while Tommy himself was lost. She was also beautiful and smart, which he would have found attractive, and I wonder if the fact that she was Oliver's girl played in there too. She did support him to some extent when Malcolm cut him off, and when Tommy did as she told him to, she rewarded him. It's said that we are attracted to people who are like our parents (Harville Hendrix says it's because we wanted to be taken care of the way our parents took care of us) and there are definitely some qualities the same between Laurel and Malcolm. I don't think their marriage would have lasted, but it would have lasted longer than Laurel being married to Oliver because either Oliver would have cut and run or he would have done something that humiliated Laurel too much and she would have started looking around for husband #2.

It's strange to think so, but I believe you're right. They think Laurel has earned the right to be the Black Canary (how? by being on the show for 2 1/2 season?), and love all the DC characters coming on but complain that there are too many plot points as if the two aren't connected. It wasn't so obvious in s2 but this season, with so many more DC characters coming on and good original characters like Moira and Sara now dead, there seems to be a divide in the viewers between those who seem to come for the action with their checklists of DC characters, and those who got hooked into what the show was the first two seasons and now miss the storytelling and the original characters.

Lauren/Bo shippers are like SwanQueen shippers on OUaT, except Lauren/Bo is a canon ship. But I don't know anyone who liked the character who wasn't a Lauren/Bo shipper. She always seemed to me to be like the worst trope of a girlfriend, weak, needy and too often a damsel in distress in spite of being the show's doctor. I think Ksenia Solo was the best actor on Lost Girl by a mile. It will be interesting seeing her on Orphan Black next season.

Poor Tommy, he really did do her well as her submissive. (There's a reason he's a sub in the Queen/Merlyn and Smoaking Billionaires fic.) Ted is someone who does what he does without thinking of the consequences on the other person, as he did dumping his acolyte. This wouldn't be a problem for Laurel, she'd just tell him what she wanted him to do and how to do it, and they'd spend half their time together ignoring what the other wants. A perfect match because they would fight to get what they want and no third person would end up getting hurt. It's early days yet, she still has 14 episodes to do something heroic. You've convinced me that Blood was the man for her. Too bad he's gone.

I'm curious ... I tried to move this conversation to the Oliver Queen thread because it's not about spoilers any more but no one followed. I think that speaks to how hard it is to change an on-going conversation to another thread, but I'm wondering why it's so.

As much as I'm not a fan of Raylicity, I don't dislike Ray enough to want him with Laurel. Every time he got a great idea, she'd crush it unless she had thought of it first. Every time he wanted to go off book in their relationship, she'd accuse him of disrespecting what she wants. I think Laurel is better with Ted Grant -- they both tend to see things in black and white, and a fist to the jaw is their best way of settling disagreements.

Everyone has been running around for two seasons saying Ra's = scary but far from being the Biggist Big Bad, Ra's has pretty much left me cold. The EPs took the concept of a yearly Big Bad from Buffy the Vampire Slayer but one of the reasons it worked for Joss Whedon is because he was generally willing to kill off each year's Big Bad so that the satisfying conclusion of the season sticks.. Arrow doesn't -- Malcolm (s1 BB) is still around on the show, Slade (s2BB) is still around, and I really doubt they are going to kill off Ra's (s3BB?) at the end of this season I would love it if Ra's did get killed and Nyssa took over the LoA because that would be an awesome twist, but given Ra's role in the comic books, I really doubt that's going to happen. So once again, they set up a big confrontation for the season finale, and then over the next season or two it fizzles because they don't have the guts to kill off the Big Bad yet again. They only kill off the awesome female characters.

Wow, if they're intending to make him a recurring comic book character, their eyes really are bigger than their writing ability. Why do both reviews refer to him as "charismatic"? Was that in the press release? Because 'narcissistic douchebag' seems a better description to me.

All these are really bad tropes, and yet we're expecting one if not more to happen. I wish this show would go back to when it worked against all expectations, and did the amazing thing.

From the spoiler thread: The answer is he should impose himself because there's real love there, and there's real value in that. You can't just accept things, Oliver. . Since Oliver dropped out or got kicked out of four different universities, while he's really good at shooting arrows, a business education is something he doesn't have. Right there, that's a huge handicap. Added to the fact that in s2 he was more interested in putting bad guys away and dealing with Slade than running QC, no wonder he did such a bad job as CEO. I'm torn about whether he had a passion for QC. On one hand, it is his family's company and his legacy. On the other, he was fine with Ray Palmer taking it over although that may have been a reaction to being overwhelmed between the vertigo, fighting for the company, and feeling he couldn't be Oliver Queen. I think it all ends up being about what he wants to do. I feel that skills are transferable -- that what makes him a good leader of Team Arrow could also make him a good leader at QC -- and that he can hire the people with business degrees. Just as Moira did when Robert died, he can take over the job and do it. If he wants to.

If Oliver comes back and does his "I love you but I can't be with anyone because of what I do" again, I hope Felicity throws her hands up in the air (and throws something at him but not Fernlicity), and tries to move on with her life.

I tried to read that out loud to the other person in the room with me, but I couldn't because I was laughing so hard. At that time, DR had only seen a few scripts. I can believe the void is felt at the beginning, but how will things be after Oliver's been gone for a while and Team Arrow is functioning without him? It's a big temptation to imbue other characters with the things that make your lead character special, the fighting, the angst, the being a superhero. I keep remembering what happened on House. Viewers loved how snarky and self-centered he was, and the producers were so delighted that gradually they brought on other characters who were self-centered, turned others the same way (Cuddy) and got rid of the rest until everyone character but one (Wilson) was snarky and self-centered. In the end, the outstanding character they had created the show around was just like all the rest of the characters on the show. I hope Berlanti is smarter than that.

I could see Ray as a viable alternative relationship when she thought that Oliver didn't care about her. But now she knows that he does, and she's scared that he's dead, or maybe she finds out that he's actually dead. It took her five years to find another relationship she wanted to have after Cooper. It took Ray six months after losing his fiance to find himself kissing another woman. I can't see Felicity moving on to another man, even for comfort, so soon after Oliver's declaration that he loved her..

Do I have to like how they get there is more iffy for me because if I dislike it enough, my connection to the show will be weakened. That happened in 2B but the finale was enough to get it back. But I had the spoilers and 2A to count on, so I was thinking 2B was an anomaly. Now I know it's not, because 3A was just like it. So if this is a pattern, that they are some episodes I wish I hadn't seen and then some really good stuff, my intention to come back again after finales, whether they are mid or end of season, gets weakened each time. An equally problematic issue is what it does to the show that the hood can be worn by someone else. I don't mind that happening in the future (I love the Legacy fic by ash818) but I'm not ready for that on the show. To have Diggle wearing the hood, and he, Roy, Laurel and Ray do Oliver's job while he's gone, ending with Oliver specifically not being needed to be the Arrow, weakens the show dreadfully in my opinion. Possibly fatally.

And Oliver said he loved her, but that didn't stop him from walking away and going to fight Ra's al Ghul. That's one of the amazing things about Felicity -- that she's so open and loving even though she keeps losing those she loves. Her father left her when she was a child, she thought that her love (i.e. hacking ability) caused Cooper's death, Sara has just died, and now Oliver is going off the battle Ra's. And yet she keeps loving. (It's an interesting contrast to Laurel, who shuts people out when she gets hurt, for years.) I'm kind of torn on that. I think the writing could have been much smoother, and I don't find Ray nearly as charming as the EPs do, but I do understand Felicity to some extent. For almost two years, she thought she didn't have a shot with Oliver except as a friend, and then suddenly she did, and then almost as soon, he ended it. Then Sara died and he shut down around her. There weren't even the touches on her shoulder any more, or the soft voice. So she concluded, as she told Ray, that Oliver regretted kissing her. And because she's just about the bravest person on the show, instead of shutting down herself, she went forward with life, to a new job, a new challenge, and when Ray kissed her, possibly a new relationship. I think it depends on where they go now whether the Raylicity thing will work for me or not. Oliver's last words before leaving were "I love you". I can perfectly understand Felicity trying to bury her grief in helping Ray with his suit; but to date Ray would be OOC for her IMO.

I think they will try to make her a fully-fledged part of Team Arrow, but unless they change her personality, it won't work. The Laurel who we've known for 2 1/2 seasons isn't going to accept taking third or fourth place on the team (assuming she can dominate Roy or Felicity and take their place), but I don't think the team can function with such neophyte leader, and I think the majority of the audience will have trouble with it too. Should Diggle take orders from Laurel? He accepted them from Sara but Sara was not only an experienced and skilled fighter in her own right, she made friends with Diggle right away by meeting him on common ground. Season 3, and Laurel is still giving him and Felicity orders.. And it's going to be all kinds of awkward with both Laurel "I know you like I know my own name" and Felicity in interactions with Oliver. Laurel Canary can help out while Oliver is gone but when he gets back, I think the show would work best if Laurel is off working her own cases.

I never expected it to be the Green Arrow/Black Canary show because it's called "Arrow". Batman could get away with being called Batman and still having Robin there because Robin is Batman's sidekick, which is not what the Black Canary is to the Green Arrow, but even most of the movies didn't have Robin. Feels like a bait-and-switch, first to have Sara Canary equal to Oliver in 3B, and then to kill her off (why did they spend to much time on her if they were just going to kill her off?) and then so much of 3A devoted to making Laurel into the Black Canary over other characters who actually can fight. Ironic indeed, because of all the women killed (which I hate), Laurel is the one that would have generated the most story for other characters had she been killed, and Moira and Sara the ones who would have generated the most storylines being alive. They've doubly shot themselves in the foot by killing Moira because Malcolm is much less interesting with her gone, so they've lost not only Oliver's mother but a good antagonist for him.

I will be very upset if they kill Quentin off. He and Diggle are the Voice of Reason now that Moira is dead and Walter is gone, If Arrow wants to keep their cross-section of viewers, they have to appeal to more than the CW teen angst. I don't see how they can sell a Ray/Felicity relationship after Oliver's dying thought was of kissing her; I'll have the psych tests ready for them if they attempt to try.

It will be a test if the Mirakuru is really gone because pre-Mirakuru Slade would have respected her for having the guts to do that. It's an interesting set of parallels -- Roy, Slade and Thea all committed atrocities while under the influence of drugs, Roy to a stranger, Slade to someone very important to Thea, and Thea to someone important to herself and Roy -- and it could be a good storyline to see how they and the Team deal with the repercussions. Will we get to see it? I doubt it, there's more work for BC and the ATOM.

MachaSWicket wrote Hanging on a Wall of Stars, about Felicity dealing with what happened to Oliver in The Climb. It's how I hope the show will deal with it. Also Watercolors, where Oliver and Felicity remember Sara. Warning, you may get tears in your eyes.

This show really has problems with balancing character time. I agree that there was a lot of Sara in 2B, sometimes at the cost of other characters (e.g. Roy, Diggle) but she would have made a great recurring character, sometimes as a strong fighter they call upon when Team Arrow is over-matched, sometimes to drop in and bring a different type of storyline. Oliver's journey to being Green Arrow has to end in s5; they should have kept Sara alive to bring them new stories when the journey is done.