statsgirl

But we the audience know how she feels, so to me it's pretty much the same thing. When Oliver lunged at Sara, he knew he cared about Felicity in some way but it wasn't clear to him how, and she'd never told him she loved him, nor had they ever entertained the idea of a relationship with each other. But now, Felicity not only knows clearly how she feels about him, she knows he loves her and that they both had wanted a relationship with each other. After all that, I don't see how Felicity could start a relationship with Ray unless Oliver does something horrible when he gets back. This makes a lot of sense to me, and if the EPs are smart and they still want to keep Oliver and Felicity apart, this is how they would do it. Corollary: it would also mean keeping Felicity apart from dating Ray now that he's building a suit to enter the superhero business.

I'm holding on to the hope that "Felicity sees another side of Ray" is just a way to get Felicity's name into the episode description so people will tune in for her. Glen Winter is one of their best directors (and a producer for the Flash IIRC) so I'm interested to see what he's got in mind. I think I could forgive MG the Canary quartet if we got to see Oliver hallucinating about Felicity and she dreaming about him, even better flashbacks to the summer. SA did say we'd only see Oliver in flashbacks in 2 episodes. It would keep them on their idiotic real timeline (which is now hurting the show more than it helps) and it would give us what we missed over the summer. It's interesting that it all comes down to good storytelling. Some people want Laurel as the Black Canary last season, others don't buy that she should be it. The only way to get both groups to watch is to make the story believable and good. I think the creation of three new superheroes this season along with the killing of Sara has really weakened the show because it's diluted what we watch for. I don't think it's just because The Flash is lighter and newer that it's pulling in better ratings than Arrow, I think it's also because there's more heart there. They're pretty sure of a season 4, and if ratings fall, they may just use Arrow to launch other comic books shows like The Atom. It would be a shame to see the show brought down like that, but it's more than possible.

I agree, it's not the being a hero that puts her off, she'd be all in for whatever stuff he has to deal with. The problem for me is that Ray really is Oliver-lite, the billionaire, the sad backstory, the ATOM suit compared to Oliver's amazing physical abilities. Now that she knows he loves her, why would she settle for the imitation when the real thing is right in front of her, in love with her, and she just has to make him realize he can have it all? That's why I hope Felicity doesn't start a relationship with Ray, because I would think the worse of her for it.

But Ray's lack of self-loathing, for all that it makes him a better partner in a relationship, also makes him less interesting and less worth working for. He is the blue pill.

I don't think either Iris or Caitlin are important enough as characters to be there. They're still kind of on the sidelines lines, just supporting players so far. With a limited number of cast who could be on stage, I think Joe West or Harrison Wells would be more important, not to mention the actors are more interesting to the critics than the kids in the cast. (Of course, if the actors playing Eddie or Cisco are there, this theory goes in the garbage.) Arsenal and BC are just starting their ascensions so the producers want them there, and Barrowman is Barrowman so they would want to flaunt him. David Ramsey isn't a superhero but he's two years more important than Cisco or Eddie.

Didn't Felicity already see the whole new side to Ray when she saw the suit, heard his speech about wanting to save the city and asked "Why does this keep happening to me?" They need to get Ray interacting with characters who aren't called Felicity. Maybe that would make him into a real boy. I have to admit, Diggle's smarter than me. He's found a wholly different way to get rid of Laurel. We called it months ago -- she's replacing the addiction to drugs and alcohol with an addiction to beating people up and kicking them when they're down, not to mention twisting their arms when they're in the hospital. At least it's consistent... Laurel is power-tripping again. Now if someone could just explain to me how this makes her a superhero?

And then she gets kidnapped so Oliver can beat himself up over thinking they could have a relationship.

Yep. That's why there's going to be no Ray/Felicity romantic relationship. (Fingers in ears, la, la, la, la) Oliver's willingness to sacrifice himself for all and sundry is enough of a bar to their relationship at this point.

Yao Fei left Oliver alone in the cave while he went to do his thing with Fyers, and you know how this show loves it's parallels. The League probably assumed that whoever Ra's kills stays dead. And it's not their mountain so no worries about tidying it up.

From that split second shot of the guy dragging Oliver's body, it seems more like Karl Yune's body shape than John Barrowman's. But given that the identity is hidden by the clothes, it could just as easily be a random extra.

I still see him as the young Spider from Sea Patrol,

They did reconcile and he died with her and Ella in Hawaii, Somewhere Over the Rainbow played and I cried. Maybe. But he was a crappy partner in his first marriage too.

At least there's a shot of Roy for "a hero rises".

Mark Greene was a guy you really didn't want to be married to. When the show started, he was chief resident, part of an arrangement with his wife that they would alternate working and taking care of their daughter Rachel.* At the end of the year, when it was his turn to stay home and hers to take an articling position, he decided that he wanted to stay working and expected her to refuse the job and stay home with Rachel. That was the start of their marriage breaking up. She got custody of Rachel and re-married a couple of seasons later. Mark felt sad that Rachel was getting a stepfather she liked and showed up at their house one day with a puppy, only to find out that Stepdad had already got Rachel a dog and Mark sadly walked away. We were supposed to feel sorry for him but all I could think about was "Taking care of a puppy is halfway to having a child. Who buys a kid a dog without first checking with her custodial parent that it's okay?" Fast forward to Mark married to Elizabeth and Ella is born. At that time, Elizabeth was Chief of Surgery and Mark was a standard ER doctor. They made arrangements for caring for Ella and Mark broke them again and again. When he was supposed to go home so Elizabeth could go to County to work her shift, he deliberately offered to take on extra work so he could stay late. When he was supposed to check on Ella overnight so Elizabeth could get some sleep, he slept through her crying and messy diapers and Elizabeth had to get up and clean her off and change the bed. Elizabeth kept suggesting they get a second nanny but Mark didn't want his child raised by strangers. (Me: Then get off your ass and do some parenting.) Meanwhile Rachel was fighting with her mother and Mark, wanting to be the good parent, said she could live with them without asking Elizabeth, who was still struggling with baby and work. (Me: How can you just bring another person into the house, especially a troubled adolescent, without asking the person you live with?) Rachel needed a lot of parenting but Mark expected Elizabeth to do it while he played Rachel's her good buddy. Then Ella found the drugs in Rachel's bag and almost died, and Elizabeth hit the end of her rope and wanted to send Rachel to a boarding school, which I didn't think was such a bad idea since Mark was doing such a crap job of parenting her, but he wouldn't and the marriage broke up. Elizabeth kept getting shriller and shriller and shouting louder and louder but I thought it was unfair to put the blame on her since, like many family situations, one person's reactions were the result of another's actions. As you can see, I wasn't a fan of Mark as a family man, it was such a contrast to what a good mentor he was to the younger doctors at work. * I know a couple who worked this arrangement. They had three kids while she was in medical school and he was working on his PhD and they alternated year by year staying home and taking care of their kids.

I generally like gnimaerd's fic (even recommended on here) but I didn't like the cheating and what really seemed like Felicity taking advantage of Ray since she married him and then cheated with Oliver just because. It's well written but they're both more selfish than I like to think of them being.

I can see the logic in putting KC out there and not EBR because even with critics EBR is more of a favorite and they want questions to go to KC about her big new role rather than to EBR about Felicity (I'm sure SA will get asked some of those) but when your manipulation is so obvious, it makes it also kind of stinky. If she and Willa Holland are not going to be on the Paley panel,it will be a gross injustice. It was interesting seeing the clip from 2013. SA hugged everyone, KC teetered out in her high heels, and Susanna Thompson strode out owning the stage like Moira Queen. If you can't walk in your shoes, it doesn't matter how fashionable they are, it's going to look kind of silly.

Maybe if Laurel fails as the Black Canary, Sin is their fallback with Sara dead.. Of course she would have to go to Nanda Parbat with Nyssa for training, which would free up Bex for her other acting roles but she's young enough and has the right personality for the character. She's even in the comic books. When Sin returns in ep 12, she could be shocked/angry/inspired to take a leap in Sara's footsteps. Nyssa could take her away to Nanda Parbat for training, and she'd be waiting there in the wings to see how the audience reacts to Laurel's Buckle Canary. I think the music was zippy and there was lots of action and little grieving because they want people who like the action/adventure show to tune in. "See, audience, even though Oliver is gone there's going to be lots of criminals and action still on.:" They know that those of us who are looking for the emotional stuff will tune in anyway. I rolled my eyes at "Darkness will take over" -- I've had enough of TDK parallels. Digg was willing to leave the team when Sara was born but right now, it makes more sense to me if he, along with Felicity and Roy wanted to continue the crusade to honor Oliver. Felicity could bring Ray into it when he suit is ready because they'll need the extra help. And no, I don't want Laurel to be the one to talk them into continuing. I think that would seal the deal on her being deadtome. Why have a phoney gravestone when you can develop a twitch to remind you of your beloved? And from mine. That makes so much sense. I think I just threw up in my mouth a little.

In terms of the general audience, yeah, that's what I think too. The KC/LL and adamant comic books fans will like it no matter how it turns out because it's their canon.

That makes sense and explains the rush to put her in the costume and out in the field, which even MG acknowledges is too soon. (I were I was as good in my second language as you are in English.)

I agree, you can do a lot in editing. (I once worked for an ad agency who was hired by a fairly unpopular candidate to do streeter interviews for a commercial and they were a masterwork of editing.) And taking out gags that aren't working in sitcoms. (I went to the taping of the Air Farce New Year's Special and when they showed it, they left out a couple of really good skits IMO.) I was wondering if the Arrow EPs ever changed direction late in the season (i.e. in February) after viewer response, specifically Following Morrigan's timeline, they would have started talking about killing Tommy before Christmas, since they would have been shooting 1x14 then and writing 16. I wish I knew what MG was writing on the beach when they were shooting the finale, it could have been substantive in setting up season 3 or it could have been more minor, such as Oliver's reaction to Felicity's prodding. The edit in the hallway scene cutting the kiss seems only a minor change to tighten the scene rather than something that changed the storyline.

On the other hand, it would be written by AK and not MG, so it wouldn't be all bad.

I really do think they'll keep her even if ratings drop. As long as the rest of the show is good, I don't think that many people will stop watching unless they make it the Green Arrow/Black Canary hour and I hope they're at least smart enough not to do that. With all the hype they're giving her (Laurel as the only female hero the show cares about really burns) this doesn't feel like something they're doing just because it's in her contract. I think that unless KC gets offered her own show, Buckle Canary is here to stay.

Gibbs slap; They should have Lyla there too. She and Felicity have done a lot more hero stuff than Ray or Laurel.

The finale this season must be really something if SA already knows he won't be able to make Megacon. I wonder if it's the location that has to be booked so far in advance, or if they're giving themselves that time to shoot it. Do shows make substantial changes in editing? The tweaking that they did in s2 by cutting the kiss seems to me to be more in the nature of making the planned scene stronger rather than changing the story. But you're right, they do have the room to make changes after the feedback from the January and February episodes. Did not make the decision until then, or didn't tell Colin Donnell until then? I can't quite remember. If it's the former, that's very interesting and quite bold of them because they've had to do quite a bit of re-writing for it.

Yeah, that's what makes me think that Sousa is her love interest, and also that he seems like a nice guy. But they only have eight episodes so they're going to have to have him know her secret pretty soon unless they're going to make the same mistake that Arrow made and the Flash is making, which is to keep the hero's love interest in the dark and end up with more chemistry for an alternative pairing than the real one.