Carrie Ann

You're not the only one! Lotta people making the same mistake across the internet/world. :)

Frank Sinatra's son, Frank Jr., is the one who died yesterday. Frank himself died in 1998.

I binged the first season and a half of The 100 and I didn't find the betrayal stuff that overwhelming. I feel like the big themes of the show include how best to govern/survive, finding out where you "belong," and your loyalties being tested as a result of those things. So a lot of the "betrayal" to me just seems like natural consequences of being in an incredibly stressful situation where people you trust and care about are on opposing sides and you need to choose one (oversimplifying, but you know). I don't think it gets credited as an "adult" show because of the death toll, but because it puts characters in terrible but narratively logical situations and doesn't give them an easy out at the last minute. There are consequences and the characters have to live with them. Or anyway, it used to be like that. I can't defend the show this season (I haven't watched in weeks), but that's my take on the first two seasons which I do still adore, and why it used to get the critical and fan support that it did.

Yeah...I didn't realize that last week's episode was The 100's lowest-rated ever...that's a pretty intense drop for what has been a poorly-rated show to begin with. Some people will come back, but I wouldn't be surprised if that gain is erased and then some by the end. Kinda proud of our li'l Arrow for holding so steady.

I think I've said this before, but: on Arrow, the characters take turns tearing Oliver down for his mistakes; on The Flash, the characters take turns absolving Barry of his. The supporting characters' reactions to the hero's actions are how the show tells us what to feel about something--Arrow usually wants us to see Oliver as wrong and needing to change (this is thankfully becoming less true), The Flash wants us to see Barry as right, or wrong but with his heart in the right place, and rarely in need of change (unless that change is "learn how to run faster"). Season 2 is showing the consequences of Barry's actions via Earth 2/Zoom, sure, but the show has rarely made that explicit. IIRC, Barry was feeling guilty in 201, and everyone took their turn assuring him it wasn't his fault and then the whole city threw him a celebration. The next time I remember him saying anything about the guilt was 14 episodes later. To me, that is not indicative of a guilt arc. By 215, it felt like the writers throwing a bone to people who've been complaining about it. I too like a hero who makes mistakes and has room to grow, but that hero can't be the only one who sees it that way or he starts to seem bulletproof, especially in a relationship-sense. That's why the Everyone Gives Barry a Pep Talk trope is getting so old. Sometimes those people have every right to be upset with him instead of supportive, but instead they immediately forgive or absolve him of his mistakes so that they can prop him up. That tells me the show doesn't see anything Barry does as that bad.

Thirded (or fourthed)! I almost never watch panels, interviews, FB videos, etc., because of secondhand embarrassment/awkwardness squick. Appreciate tv echo and everyone else willing to write summaries and answer q's for all of us with this affliction. :)

I don't think anyone doesn't take them seriously. I think that EBR probably just didn't think very hard about that part of her tweet, or any part at all, really, and I honestly missed that bit on the first read because the point was clearly to make some sort of joke about how being clean-shaven makes guys hotter? Counterpoint:

Not sure we didn't already know this, but just in case, Arrow's S4 finale will air 5/25.

I think Tara from BtVS is the real parallel to the Lexa situation, though Willow/Tara had much better development over almost three seasons, so the fact that Tara is still mourned and her death criticized today is no surprise. I do think the Lexa thing will be a much longer-lasting and loud backlash than we saw with Sara, especially because of the ship element and that she was paired with the lead character. And far be it from me to deny anyone their legitimate feelings about this awful trope, but to me, it's not as egregious as the Tara thing because they were in a bit of a jam when it came to ADC's other job (and because of the higher death rate on the show in general). I don't blame them for feeling like they couldn't write around her schedule. Could they have written a death scene that was less tied to her having sex with Clarke? Could they have written a scene that allowed her to die an appropriately badass death? Yep. And that's the thing I think JGM is feeling the pain of right now; killing her wasn't his call, but the manner of death may have been, to some extent. I'm torn on it in general because I agree with wonderwall that Clexa no longer made any sense to me, so their reconciliation hurt both C & L as characters this season, and I was annoyed that Lexa seemed to be the only character whose story the writers put any effort into in S3 (even if I wasn't particularly thrilled with it, it was obvious where their enthusiasm lay). But at the same time, I found Lexa so intriguing in S2 and am sad that the show screwed her up for me and that they can't fix it now.

Another option is that they're comfortable with their body types and feel no need to dress to accentuate or hide aspects of them.

Yep. Since Season 1, they've had Oliver on this arc: And he's basically gotten 95% of the way there, bit by bit, by Season 4. All the important people in his life know he's the GA, he solicits and accepts other people's opinions and plans, he has a team, he's decided to embrace the idea that he can not just be with someone but be married to her. But...then there's that 5%. And I too find the BMD contrived and frustrating, and I just don't really buy it, but ooookay, here we are. I have to see this as another step in his development arc, and for that reason, again, I am so grateful that 415 had Oliver exacerbating the problem by shutting Felicity out of his decision-making process regarding William. Because that's a slight tweak on his usual problems and it's bigger than one (really bad and dumb) lie. It goes directly back to "you gotta let someone in," with Felicity saying she doesn't think he knows how to do that to the extent she needs/deserves. That's much meatier and carries a lot more weight for me, and is a more interesting point of development for Oliver than the same old "secrets and lies are bad." If the heroes on this show didn't change, hopefully for the better, I wouldn't be watching.

The age thing is weird here, because IRL, Marie Avgeropolous is 29 and Ricky Whittle is 34. If MA is 11-12 years older than her character (who I agree is probably 18 by now), and if we say the same about RW, then we could guess that Lincoln is supposed to be about 23. Bellamy was supposed to be 23 in S1, so I'm guessing the writers were sort of writing them as peers.

I don't think I agree with all of this, and partly it's because I feel like all I can do is compare Oliver's treatment to the treatment of other characters on the show (or even in the Flarrow universe) versus what might be normal in the real world. You might not judge on that metric, which I get. But IMO, Oliver has been held more accountable and faced more real, tangible consequences for his actions (especially his secrets/lies) than any other character in the Flarrow world. He also ends up being the one who pays for other people's mistakes (especially Thea's and Laurel's in S3) Tommy froze him out for the latter half of S1 after learning his secret. His lies about (and to) Slade got his sister kidnapped and arguably his mother killed, leading him to try to offer his own life. Quentin actively hated him for, what, nine months or so, trying to ruin his life and get him sent to prison/his death after learning he kept Sara's death a secret. He had to drop the Arrow identity and Roy had to leave town forever (that's a bigger consequence for Roy of course, same with Moira's death, but it's still a consequence, and we still see Oliver feeling active guilt/grief over these things and trying to right them, especially when compared to how the show treats other characters when similar things are their fault) (cough, Laurel, cough). And it did take Diggle about six months to forgive Oliver for the LoA stuff. (In general: I don't think the show viewed Oliver letting the team think they were going to die in NP as negatively as viewers did, so yeah, none of the characters really got upset with him about that. I think the show felt like it was Oliver's only avenue to save their lives (and to ultimately save SC), and that once the team realized that, they would get it. But just like with the BMD, it didn't work for many viewers because it felt like there was a third option, which was to just have Oliver give some signal to one of the team.) As @dtissagirl mentioned above, the result of the BMD is the loss of his mayoral campaign, his engagement/relationship, and his son. Had he made a better choice in December, he may not have lost any of those things. Maybe they'll make that explicit in the next few episodes--we'll see. But anyway. I do agree that Oliver is ultimately forgiven for his lies by his loved ones (as is every character on the show/in the greater universe), but I guess I don't think that means that he hasn't learned anything and never will. It gets at a fundamental question for me, which is: what would "lasting effects" entail on a TV show? How lasting? What kind of effects? The show has to tell an entertaining story, and Oliver's role at the center of the story makes it difficult to keep him separated from other main characters for long, or for him to be the one who pays physically/with his life. They spent most of S3 having him at odds with Felicity and it was a slog to get through. I've never been so relieved to have something quickly resolved as I was when he and Dig made up in 403. Yep, most of the freeze-out occurred off-screen, and that was just fine with me. The same will be true, for me, when half of the O/F breakup will have taken place off-screen during this hiatus (I'm guessing). I don't want to see them being cold and distant for another season. So to me, from a narrative perspective and an entertaining television perspective, I don't care to see Oliver "punished" for his mistakes by those closest to him for longer than a short arc of episodes, because selfishly, those relationships and interactions are the reason I watch the show. :) My answer to "how is Oliver ever going to learn?" is that it's really MG who has to learn. They need to figure out how to create plot from things other than Oliver keeping secrets, after this season. This secret was already OOC for S4 Oliver, IMO, but I am willing to see it as a regression and a last gasp of old Oliver peeking through, but after this...I would find it very difficult to understand or accept another story along these lines.

I don't ship anyone on the show--just found it funny that the Sara/Snart scenes that felt so natural (and shippy, even if I'm not onboard yet) took place in the same episode with the rushed, forced, ineffective R/K kiss. The contrast did no favors to the R/K stuff.

I found the Ray/Kendra thing most awkward because in the same ep, Sara and Cold had a few nice scenes, with believable interactions and unforced chemistry that made me want to see more from them, and the opposite was true with R/K. It almost felt intentional, like when they were contrasting R/F with O/F last season, but...it wasn't. But I don't think they're trying to build R/K as any kind of "real" love story, or they wouldn't have moved on it so quickly, so as with anything to do with Kendra, I'll continue to not care about it and it won't impact my viewing experience.

Yeah, what is the point of her/that segment? I feel like Adam Ried could cover the smaller-category gadgets just as well in the Equipment segment.

I can't help but root for Ephram, and I think GS has been saddled with two stinker episodes. I had no problems with his direction in 315 (and I agree that the Dig/Oliver scene made up for a lot), but I just don't know where to place the blame for the failures of 415 and I feel like part of it IS on him. Well, him or SA entirely, I guess, because for some reason he underplayed his emotional response for the whole episode. I just feel like a better director would try to coax something more out of him? Anyway, I'll give him another shot, and at the very least, I will say that his directing style is less...obtrusive and distracting than Bamford's, so if I have to choose a novice nepotism candidate, I'll take Gregory Smith.

I was going to say, it might sound like a rip-off, but Shawn Ryan >>>>>>> MG, so I'd probably give it a shot if it gets past pilot-stage.

To be honest, I don't want it either, and I don't actually think it will happen. I really don't think Oliver (or Thea, of course) should have to be the one to kill Malcolm, for any number of reasons. And I don't think they will--or even if they try, they will fail. I think we're stuck with MM through next season, as part of the show's original 5 Year Plan. I do think Oliver and the team are going to have to face up to it though--the fact that Malcolm kinda needs to die. If the show is still going to push that illogical "no prison can hold me" line, then what other solution is there to prevent him from doing more damage? Personally, my spoiler-free guess is that Malcolm and H.I.V.E. (with DD somewhere in the mix) will represent the big final battle this year, and Team Arrow will beat the immediate H.I.V.E threat (and probably DD), but Malcolm will get away.

(I'm blushing a lot.) Y'all are nice.

Wait though, if this girl were supposed to be Malcolm's daughter who was conceived before he met Rebecca? Then she would be older than Tommy. And I don't see why they'd hire a 20 year old actress and then just be like, "Oh, well, she used to bathe in the Lazarus Pit, see," when they could just hire an actress who was more age-appropriate instead. Unless the idea is that he reunited with this Lourdes woman at some point after he joined the League? (Sorry if I missed this in the speculation--I caught up on a lot today and might have missed something.)

The problem would be that it would mean that he once again went rogue and made a deal with MM behind Team Arrow's backs. And this season, there would be no reason for keeping that secret from them (like, to convince Ra's he was fully committed to the League) or making the deal without talking to them about it (like working with Malcolm in S3 when he was still making unilateral calls all the time). At the time the deal would have been struck, MM was still trying to be OQ's ally, so he hadn't threatened William or tried to use him as leverage, which would have been the only logical way Oliver would have entered into a secret plan with him. So I think we're just supposed to not think very hard about why Oliver didn't immediately see MM as a threat to William, as with so many things connected to the Secret Kid, because there's no logical reason for it, only plot-necessary reasons.

I am LOLing at every part of that comic. The writing sounds like if someone was just making up a story on the spot, and had to keep explaining--"oh, no yeah, this was before all that but after this other thing"--and embellishing--"back when my name was King...Arthur King."

I let this season pile up on my DVR for the first four episodes because I'd heard the rumblings of One Bad Storyline, but when I caught up, I was disappointed to find that I have issues with every storyline. Basically the only characters I haven't had issue with yet are Octavia, Kane, Miller, and Murphy. I think everyone else is acting slightly or hugely OOC (or are just stuck in an annoying plot), and storylines are too rushed to find them credible or engaging. The worst part of the worst aspect of the worst storyline is this: Bellamy is acting monstrously, and of course it's OOC, but it's even worse because unlike Pike, he knows this strategy is not sustainable. He knows the Ark can't be isolationist and survive/defend itself against the much larger Grounder coalition, especially if some factions of that group split off like the Ice Nation did. So Pike is a hateful moron, but at least he has ignorance going for him. What's JR's excuse for why Bellamy would lose all knowledge he's gained since landing on the planet? I have heard his weak reasoning for Bellamy's sudden and violent turn against Grounders, but even that doesn't explain the stupidity. Bleh. I'm going back to letting the episodes pile up until I hear conditions have improved.

In Laurel's case, this is definitely true. I think MG answered a Tumblr ask about it or something?