DearEvette

Two things: 1) Irrogance? LOL. If that is a typo then it is the best typo ever because I read it as a cross between 'ignorance' and 'arrogance' and that is exactly where I think his response comes from. Ignorance because I think that no matter how tuned he is in to some of the frustrations POC have as viewers of shows, he really doesn't get how the Betsy Ross announcement, esp. the tone of it, ties into the specific frustrations with this show and not being aware of how the 'be patient' and 'trust us' line is like waving a red flag in front of an angry bull with this fandom.. And arrogance because he feels that he can show some old receipts and we'll be all ok. He's not new. he should be smart enough to know that it is always about 'what have you done for me lately' and while we are hopeful you still need to prove. That said, I can't get too mad at him. I think his intentions were probably quite pure and I can't fault him for attempting to engage. it was just clumsily done. And it is better for him to learn this way why the fandom is so weary. 2) I 100% agree on the tone deaf PR thing. As long as Abbie & Ichabod remained front and center with their partnership intact and their trust & relationship with each other paramount and no one usurping Abbie's place, they could have slipped in their sexy Betsy Ross and as long as we remained engaged in whatever story they were telling, fans would not have turned much of a hair. If the story/characters are as well done as LDJ is hinting at, then there would have been a non-reaction. But the PR dept. choosing to break radio silence by giving us 1) a new series regular 2)white woman 3) sexy partner to Ichabod 4) bad ass. 5)aftermath of Katrina foolishness... Talk about the perfect storm of the absolute worst thing you could have come out of the gate with. All of this agita could have been avoided if the first piece of info would have been about Team Witness or Jenny. Meanwhile over at Empire, on the same day we got the gushing press release about Sexy Betsy, they dropped a bad ass poster of Cookie and Lucious, wearing gold, with 'come at me bruh' expressions on their faces, sitting on thrones caressing full maned mutha-fuckin' lions! Both of them looking Boss. See that is a show that understand its fans. They get what the Empire fans want to see. In just one simple image they raised anticipation. I remember when the S2 poster of SH came out of Abbie & Ichabod reaching toward each other separate by thorns. That was great PR. Where are those people? You can't tell me this is the same PR team.

I have to say, I didn't like Wash but only because of Zoe. If he were just the pilot, I would have been fine with him. But because he was her husband and was a bit of a doof, i could never reconcile him in my head. Zoe was this Amazon Goddess. What did she see in him?

A couple of years ago I would have been side-eying Astronaut Wives, but these days I can't. ABC actually makes the effort. They just added Toks Olagundoye to Castle as a regular and it sounds (from the way the fans are reacting) like they may be poisitioning her in case Stana Katic leaves in the future. There was another recent announcement of a POC addition to a current show that i am blanking on now. And two of their new dramas have WOC leads, Kings & Prophets and Quantico. Now if it were CBS or NBC I would totally be sucking my teeth going 'Mmmhmmm....'

So much this! My head scratchers: Downton Abbey, Homeland, Modern Family, Claire Danes, Jeff Daniels, Jeff Bridges (season 1 yes, Season 2, no). Grace of Monaco? My WTF: No Tracee Ellis Ross? How to you nominate Key without Peele? Not a single song from Empire? No Lorraine Toussaint as guest (as much as I love Allison Janney on Masters of Sex she really didn't do much on S2. No Gina Rodriguez. No My yearly question: How can shows like Saturday Night Live, Key & Peele or Inside Amy Schumer be a Variety series but all the actors in the show are in Comedy series categories? Doesn't seem fair somehow that shows like that can be in multiple categories divide the show from the performances like that but other shows that legitmately straddle the line between comedy and drama can't.

I am with you 100% with these, Caroline & Rebecca especially. I watched the shows on and off and can't fathom the character devotion. I am neutral on Elijah. But was sorry for Bonnie, though. Only because the first few seasons of TVD the utter hatred for Bonnie was so over the top that if felt almost irrational. I started to like her out of contrariness. She is a good case of a pendulum swinging from widespread hate to overall liking. I kinda feel like that happened because of some off camera/on twitter shit that happened and people became pissed off at the showrunner and sympathetic toward the actress translated to the character.

You know, I liked Felicity is S1 as well. But you are right about the "less is more" because I think we had just the right amount of her in S1 which is probably why I liked her. Now? I loathe her. And it isn't just because of the fan-overworship. She is a walking talking quirk. I've never seen the actress in anything else so I don't know if this is a deliberate with the character, but I find her stutter-stop line delivery annoying. And yes, the fan overworship take me to my contrarian place. The odes to her awesomeness when she guested on The Flash was just too too much.

Veep. I have tried. All the episodes are there on my HBOGO. I have watched several of them. I don't find it funny or interesting. Luther. I love Idris Elba, but I hate the shows where the arch criminal is so very arch and so very criminal. So clever and smug with it. The 'Moriarity' is my least favorite character trope. And it doesn't help that criminal mastermind actress has duck lips. I kept getting pulled out of teh scene because I was staring at her lips.

I have to agree about Pete Campbell. I always liked Pete and thought Don was a shit. Pete also had pretty progressive advertising ideas that Don and co, pooh-poohed away. And I will always heart him for the look of utter distaste on his face when Roger did his black-face song & dance number. I'll also add Tara from True Blood. I never got to hate for her. She was mind raped, body raped, kidnapped, terrorized & had one of the worst parents on tv. And yet she always had Sookie's back even when Sookie never had hers because she was too busy obsessing over Beel. And fianlly, Skyler from Breaking Bad. I admit I found Skyler annoying at times, but I appreciated her point of view. She acted exactly the way a person in her position would most naturally act.

This made me think of Nina Dobrev and Ian Somerhalder. Man talk about awkward considering the rumors that their break up was not amicable and he got married to someone else like a nanosecond after.

Echoing what others have said, largely. Not as fun as the pilot, but I still dug it. Dutch is the stand out, both on the character front and the actress is so damned appealing. She reminds of someone I can't quite put my finger on. She sorta-kinda looks like Zoe Kravitz and but she sounds like someone else... I loved the scene where they first walked into the house? with the old lady and D'Avin was shouting that he'll shoot etc. etc. Dutch just rolls her eyes at him ( you can almost see a thought bubble that says 'You Idiot" over her head) and pulls out her RAC badge and defuses the situation that quickly and then smoothly switches from matter-of-fact bad ass to to soft spoken compassion when she realizes how sick the woman is and gives her medicine. Still like Johnny but didn;t like that they hung him back on the ship. But we got to see/hear more of Lucy and Lucy is boss! So that wasn't too bad. I don't dislike D'Avin so his scenes are fine. And I actually liked him better in this episode because they pulled back from the Dutch/D'Avin overt smolder thing they were trying to push in the pilot. The two seem to have just the right amount of wary/suspicion. That said, I do agree that having him be Dutch's back up felt like a clumsy and obvious way to push him to be a Killjoy. I am liking the hints they keep dropping that all is not completely well between the brothers even as they obviously love each other. Cute bartender sighting! Yay! No Fancy sighting, Boo!

Yeah, I get that the show attempted to present a more evolved view, but my point about a missed opportunity was more in relation to this part of my response: "the idea sex work as an actual profession, divorced from moral judgement and that the concept of 'whore' would be totally alien to those people." I was thinking more along the lines that in Science Fiction & Fantasy you have the freedom to create a entire society from the ground up so why make the people in your world system mimic current mindset? In one of the episodes everyone was shocked/surprised/titillated that one of her clients was a woman. It just was the same old, same old, imo. It came off less in Firefly, that society had evolved, but rather we just threw our 20th century mindset into outer space and put on a prettier dress. Hence it would have been more interesting rather than to just to recreate attitudes with a small tweak, but to unspool them altogether and make the idea of sex work analogous to being a doctor or a accountant. Just another job with no inherent negative, moral connotations attached so that the terms 'prostitute' or 'whore' just don't even exist in either the ideology or the vocabulary. So yeah, I just thought...ugh, you go to the trouble of creating this Companion, complete with rules and status, but then you immediately undermine what could have been something really different by doing absolutely nothing different. Sorry, this feels like a derail of the topic of Killjoys, but I kinda geek out on shit like this so... I'll just leave this here.

I was thinking in broader world-view terms and what a genre sci-fi show would try to deliver to a viewing audience. This quote in particular made me wonder: It seems like what he's hinting at is that sex isn't necessarily thought of as something inherently connected to your orientation, but rather something you do with whomever as needed. Instead of this being just the purview of spies, is a total worldview for this time/place/setting. If this were the case that ideology would be rather progressive for a tv show. I've seen it in actual written SFF books, but not sure if I have seen it on tv shows. Since people have brought up Firefly in comparison to this show, one of the things that bugged me so completely with Firefly was Mal's attitude wrt to Inara's role as a Companion. Supposedly a Companion was a fairly prestigious job, analogous to a diplomat, but Mal continued to think of Inara as a whore. In a science fiction/fantasy show you have the opportunity to create your own social paradigm, build your own world system. You don't have to use current world ideas or morality as a measure. I just thought it was a missed opportunity for Firefly to view the idea sex work as an actual profession, divorced from moral judgement and that the concept of 'whore' would be totally alien to those people.

LOL. he was the Big Bad in Season 1 and I was like... wait...he's the scary dude? He wasn't deployed very much. The big thing with his character was that he was elusive and they couldn't get their hands on him. For a villain he felt very figure-head-y. OTOH, Charles Dance was the Big Bad in Season 2 and he was a great villain. Charismatic as all get out, Freezing-you-with-his-eyes death stare, cool henchmen (and hench-women) and doing horrible things for a seemingly noble reason.

I have been binge watching Strike Back. It is a testosterone driven British black ops show with lots of manly posturing and guns a blazing and super sexy people. Even the women are hard core and bad ass while still being sexy. The credits match the show perfectly. They are exactly right for this. The song is what takes it over the top.

Yup. I think the casting is a large part of what makes the show work for me. Not only is there good racial diversity, but if I am reading between the lines of the interview Mcfarlane did, they are also doing something interesting with attitudes re: sexuality. Also everyone is ridiculously attractive. The actor who plays Fancy under that hair/beard is seriously smokin'. I hope he hangs around. Now my biggest hope is we get a little more gender parity. So far Dutch and her RAC handler? are the only women. A couple more recurring would be great. Also, I like D'Avin. I have no triggers he's tripping... so he works for me too.

I have just immersed myself in three seasons on Strike Back (Cinemax) and I had a major crush on Phillip Winchester who plays Stonebridge. Actually I have a major crush on his arms. That man has the best, most cut, most ripped arms.

I'm reserving judgement on any romantic pairing just yet. So far it does feel like they might be trying to forecast something b/t Dutch & D'Avin...but it is just the first episode. In the pilot I can see them trying to sell a tiny bit of sizzle with the show. But my hope is that they concentrate on delivering a cool show with a great world-build, interesting plots, and fun characters who fight pretty. And If, as it progresses, Dutch/D'Avin present some real chemistry or heat then I'm ok with it. I just hope they don't try to force something that just isn't there just for the sake of creating some shipping buzz.

I thought it was fun. it did what a first ep. of a Space Opera/Sci fi show is supposed to do. It intro'd the characters, the world, and the political system. It also did stuff any show should do, it established bonds among the main characters, intro'd rivals for them, and hinted at good shady backstory for that could be mined for future plot. And it did it all in such a way that kept the story moving, didn't feel exposition, and looked really cool. Also it has three ridiculously pretty leads who also can act and have great chemistry with each other. Hey, it even had a snarky ship's computer "Commencing ass kicking" i can't help but compare it to Stitchers which I also watched the first ep of and what I felt tried too hard to do everything Killjoys did effortlessly but failed at.

No, I totally loved how she went on a Harry Potter/JK Rowling total geek out at the end of that segment. It was so unexpected, but so perfect.

Yes. Yes and even more Yes! I watched Popular (until I stopped because it became crappy). I watched Nip/Tuck and then I stopped because it because it became crappy. Ditto with Glee. By then should have learned, but I didn't because I watched The New Normal. In my own defense, the point at which I stopped watching shortened with each successive show. I hung out on Popular and Nip/Tuck for several seasons. I only made it halfway through Season 2 before I gave up on Glee. And I didn't even make it past episode 4 of The New Normal. I finally learned my lesson. I have not even been tempted to started any other ones. He is an opener, not a closer.

I just discovered this,. I am sooo looking forward to it. But dang, if you look at the imdb page you wouldn't even know these three were the main characters.

I watched this for Sallie Richardson-Whitfield. I almost bailed in the first ten minutes. I actively despised the main character. She was too annoying and abrasive. And or someone who supposedly had to learn what emotions looked like by studying flash cards, she sounded awfully angry all the time. It wasn't until the agency came along that it felt like some personality & warmth got pumped into the show. The scenes of the 'stitching' were interesting. And everybody else was engaging. The too fast dialog, the quippy pop cultural references, the clear love triangle/shipping set up... all just seemed like a try-too-hard. And I had to giggle because the entry to the agency via a chinese restaurant made me flash other spy-ish shows, most recently Archer and their entrance via a laundromat. But I give all that a pass cuz this is a pilot. And many pilots are the definition of try-too-hard. So I'll give it one more go.

Yeah, I think that was just a persistent rumor. If i recall they actually did an episode just about that very thing rgerads their group of friends.

Oh, I just discovered Brooklyn 99 this past month and binged both seasons. Amy -- just for the reasons you state -- is my favorite. Love her. Rose comes in a very close second. The character could be easily have become a one-note caricature, but the actress doesn't let that happen. She makes Rosa feel human under that hard-ass, dead-pan, dead-eyed delivery.

According to TVline when asked about the last scene between Alicia & Kalinda, Archie Panjabi merely said: This is so ...restrained. It really says nothing but in a way says a lot. Some people keep insisting that the show keeping them from filming scenes together is somehow an accommodation that both actresses are insisting on. Regardless of what went between the two women behind the scenes or who did what to whom, reading between the lines this seems pretty clear that AP has no say in what decisions are made about how the show is shot.