DigitalCount

Assuming they cut the Griffs, Jorah's got to get grayscale. Someone we care about needs to be afflicted, especially since (thankfully) we haven't seen much if any of the pale mare. This episode was probably the most moving of the 4 this season, and of course it was almost impossible to watch. The feels are being had. :( Am I right to think that the crying lady was in league with the Harpies? It seemed like she was setting a trap for them, hence them ending up in a freaking kill box. But since it's Barristan the Boss and Grey Worm, they took down all those guys with them, at least. I blame Dany for the loss; one brain + two dragons = a huge heaping helping of roast harpy. I still have hope for Grey Worm, but I am thinking that Barristan is done, since he gave his exposition to Dany re: Rhaegar. Speaking of which, holy heck. We got two stories about Rhaegar tonight, one about the freaking tourney at Harrenhall. I could have done without Baelish's kiss of Sansa, but I'm glad they still have someone alive who knew (of) Rhaegar. Seeing Cersei's use of the Faith as a weapon for her own personal vendetta was like a kick to the throat. I know Joffrey wouldn't have given two flying cowpies about Loras, but if he had found himself in the position Tommen was in those Sparrows would have been snapped like twigs. At least Loras can a) fight his own trial, and b) possibly demonstrate that he's not guilty for lack of proof. I'm assuming Olyvar won't talk, because he seemed pretty ready to beat feet out of there, plus he was astounded that they were breaking into the brothel in the first place. On the one hand, great, Cersei's going to get hers in a matter of moments, but on the other hand, these crazy weirdos need to sit the heck down. I was a bit more impressed with Jaime and Bronn in Dorne, although Bronn was probably right about Jaime being ultimately more of a liability than anything else. Both Lannister brothers seem incapable of keeping their mouths shut even when death is knocking at their door. Not much to say about the Sand Snakes yet, though I wasn't particularly a huge fan of them in the books either...that is to say, they barely made a ripple. I don't have a huge problem with Ellaria going nuts, because it's a logical response. I see her as having had two choices, following Oberyn's death: the book choice or the show choice. Book!Ellaria chose the book choice, obviously. But we need more than just Jaime and Bronn to tie us into the Dornish storyline. Familiar faces on both sides of the conflict makes for a better viewing experience. Shipping Jaime/Brienne (BrieMe? Jainne?) I could have sworn I took my allergy pill, but my allergies must have been flaring up during the Stannis scene with Shireen. Jon and Mel were great, I loled, and even more so when she dropped the mic with the Ygritte line. She does that in the book too, right? It's been a while :/ I do want to see Margaery arrested too; to me she's kind of the valuable Tyrell and while Loras is a big deal, it's not nearly the big deal that it would be if we get Queen Trials. To me, Margaery's a villain as well, though she benefits from being placed opposite someone that could easily be the villain. So it was nice to see her get knocked back a bit too when her poor preteen hubby couldn't get the job done. And anything that brings Grandma Redwyne back is a plus in my book, though she doesn't have as many worthy opponents anymore.

Well, we at least know for a fact that his love for Lyanna Stark wouldn't have mattered one whit to her, so there's that. Margaery seems more savvy than Cersei ever was regarding that at least, though her need to stick twigs through the bars of the lion's cage seems likely to get her sliced to ribbons.

Thing is, Tommen would totally be expected to have sex with Margaery by that age because he's capable and they need to lock down the throne. Lord Oaf needing to see his grandson as heir apparent would be reason enough to speed up the process from Highgarden's POV, so it makes sense despite being nasty to us. Doesn't hurt that it's more likely to inspire jealousy than disgust too. And if Joff was 17 at the beginning, he's at least had one birthday since, possibly two. I can't remember if Hearteater was a birthday gift, but I think Widow's Wail was. EDIT: actually that was for his wedding, but I think he spares Dontos on his birthday?

And also, I was under the impression that Bronn is essentially relying on Lollys for power. Even if she's a bit dull, her name commands power. We saw way back when Bronn was asked his father's name he said "you wouldn't know him" in an interesting parallel to Qyburn's "doesn't matter" more recently. His children would probably have been named Stokeworth if not for Jaime's offer. And Lyanna Mormont is Lady of Bear Island at the age of 10. The only way her kids won't be Mormonts is if she marries someone like Rickon. I think Constantinople had the truth of it. If you're a powerful man, you get to impose idiocy. This is not a great world for powerful idiots. Unlike most I don't think Ned was a huge dum-dum, but he wasn't exactly a genius. And of course, as a bookend, the most powerful man in the world just received his due for allowing the one thing that made him stupid to dominate his common sense. But you can impose idiocy as a woman too. So basically I'm not really sure what point I'm trying to make, but it seems a bit more complex than "men have power, women eat dirt."

It is fairly normal, with the exception of the giant red X on top. The wolf castle has a bit of a vampire infestation.

I would be more inclined to assume that the switch occurs on a more meta level. I think Tormund will receive Mance's storyline. Also, I think this season will be better on rewatch once we don't have to worry about Sansa's fate. I remain confident that they would not give Sansa so many near-misses only to be victimized here in that manner. I could be wrong, but why cross a bridge preemptively when it may never even come?

First off, I have to say that despite not having the same fears as mostly everyone here, I'm so glad this forum exists. I'm at that... other forum reading like seventeen solid pages of people screaming about "fetch me a block" despite it not making sense for the scene written. It's almost as bad as the backlash against the exclusion of "Only Cat" which is one of George's worst lines imo. I do think that they've telegraphed some things like Myranda vs. Sansa and Olly Marsh, but for the most part I'm okay with the changes. The only thing I'm worried about is Winterfell re: Littlefinger's motives. I mean, you don't use a precious Ming vase as a hammer, and that's essentially his plan. I can buy that Ramsey's worst actions have been shielded by his low status; he's only recently become worth knowing, and Baelish would have had no use for him before.

And the fact is, this isn't just any head of state. This is a man who has proven time and again that he answers to absolutely no authority other than his own. Tyrion has dealt with all sorts of abuse from his father: physical, emotional, even sexual. This isn't just a man who hates him so much despite siring him that he would have killed him the instant he could figure out a way to do so without blowback. He has grown up hearing men sing songs about how this man is the type of guy who, when wronged, will kill the person who wronged him, that guy's family, and that guy's friends, then bury them all, plant trees over their graves, burn the trees down, then salt the earth so nothing will ever grow there again. And in case someone thinks he mellowed out in his old age, Tyrion has just witnessed this man do the exact same thing like a week or so prior. But that's not even the best part. In reprising his role as Death, Destroyer of Worlds, this particular Head of State has shown beyond a shadow of a doubt that in his mind, even the religious and moral standards of the day don't apply to him. He willingly broke the rules every which way in order to win and said so. Once he demonstrated that the guest right didn't matter, it's only a hop, skip and a jump over to no longer caring about the kinslaying taboo. And just in time to prove those suspicions right, Tywin tries his best to have Tyrion killed via the trial. By placing himself in the biased position of arbiter, rigging the deck with false testimonies, and generally holding the biggest sham trial he could put together, Tywin showed he didn't care about the laws of men. By breaking guest right to execute the diabolical Red Wedding and nonchalantly discussing it openly later as if he had done something praiseworthy, Tywin showed he didn't care about the laws of the gods. There was literally no higher authority to appeal to. Tyrion had to take him off the board, end of story.

So, short form: Tyrion's killing of his father was justified because: 1) Tywin was unlawfully engaged in trying to kill him; 2) the weapon he used is the kingdom itself; 3) Tywin was by definition always "armed." And I suppose these reasons extend to Shae as an agent of the kingdom, though even if that's not enough, she pulled a knife on him, making that question moot.

That's a good point. Tywin's control of the kingdom was so complete, and the power of the system so absolute, that the only time he could really argue that he wasn't attacking Tyrion is in a hypothetical situation where he relinquishes control. Tywin was in the driver's seat of the conspiracy; just because it was on cruise control at that moment, it doesn't mean it wasn't still in motion.

Oh well, it was a fun theory. I haven't seen the episodes in question for a while, so I guess that it's time for a rewatch! I don't know whose email Aria is reading; were those screen shots taken from separate scenes?

Weren't the wildlings traveling with old people and children too? I'm okay with Stannis' military force being faster than that.

I'm going to assume (for no particular reason) that her list has grown to the point that she had to split people up. On Sunday, it's Cersei, the Mountain, Walder, and Meryn. Monday, it's Ilyn Payne, Tywin, Beric, Mel, and so on.

Perhaps, but everything on that screen was chosen and placed deliberately, so that means Aria was discussing a fence-building project with someone. We know that DID runs in her family, as they were discussing it with regards to Mike, and she's had three vivid hallucinations on-screen (A in the bathroom, Holbrook with "the lies, the murders, the cover-ups" and Shana in the coffin). "The Mirror Has Two Faces" was an episode title too, right?

I was all set to lol over Harvey Dent when I realized: is this another dissociative identity disorder reference? As noted, Harvey Dent is Two-Face. And of course it's Aria at the computer. Oh AriA, I just can't quit you.

I forgot, while I detest Selyse, I liked that she told Shireen not to hang out with Gilly. There seems to be a theme of trust being earned rather than assumed this season, first with Sansa and also with Shireen. It was moderately good advice, too.

I may be mistaken, but I think they were talking about how it was executed in such a manner that it was still suspenseful and manic and frightening without having to go to a more explicit place.

Yeah, it's hard to say "oh well, bygones" when your beloved's head asplode. And in fairness, he wouldn't have been in that position if not for Tywin, so there is some fault at the Lannisters' door here.

This is actually what I got from the books. I always considered Ramsey to be Jon's evil counterpart, especially when he became the Lord of Winterfell. And given that Jon was headed for the Battle of Snow until Marsh derailed his plans, I think that this is how the book was set up too.

Also, as has been said, Charles Dance was credited for his appearance as Eye Pebbles Guy #3.

Actually, if you're right, then I'm even more convinced. In the books, the isolation is somewhat artificial too, because they hide the association with a gap in the sentence. But it's important to note that in the show and the book, the "valonqar prophecy" would be part of Maggy's answer to the third question, not a bonus freebie. So I'm hoping that if the rest of it is shown later, the audience isn't reminded of the context. That way, they can either make Cersei's mistake and assume Tyrion, or make the reader's mistake and think Jaime.

FINALLY! First things first, re: nudity, I don't know that it's really constructive to compare/contrast. I mean, even in the "full frontal" scene with the female prostitute you could see...a pair of thighs joining together, to be blunt. In the case of a male full-frontal scene, you'd see significantly more. I don't think it's really the same, and I'd bet that the contracts are probably worded differently due to differences in physicality. Finn went in on that open-mouthed kiss though, wow. But yes, Loras has diverged more and more from BookLoras since S1, but I can't see myself getting bent out of shape about it. So the way that Maggy's scene was shot, I can at least console myself in assuming that the scene didn't end there. Because if the valonqar prophecy isn't mentioned, I see one of two possibilities: 1) it really is Jaime, and ugh 2) it's Tommen, and the way the phrases are worded make it waaaay too obvious (since there are no pauses for descriptions, or inner monologues, just talking) I'm hoping for option 2. I've seen upthread that people didn't like Margaery actually plotting against Cersei. Maybe this is show bleeding into books (as I read/watched both back and forth) but to me this seemed like the Loras/Renly thing, where they never said it in the books but implied it, or Theon's castration (same). I always thought Margaery was trying something, although not as openly because we never saw her behind closed doors. In any case, she's been this character since her introduction in S2 at least; it wouldn't be believable if she was okay with just being friends and shaking hands at this point. Jon/Stan/Mel/Selyse - on point for me. I could see Tormund getting the Winterfell story if they do it, just because he's been the go-to Wildling Guy and he's probably not as expensive as Hinds. I don't remember who mentioned the "seeing who looked vs. seeing who didn't" thing but it was pretty interesting to see that. On Varys backing Dany despite the assassin--interesting that the attempt failed, and it's exactly what galvanized Drogo to start beating down Westeros' door, right? I could believe that such an obviously poor assassination attempt was never meant to succeed, just to get them angry.

I'm going to assume alive, which means that when she got to the tomb the cure would just be lying there on the stone slab. Easiest quest ever.

Well, the likes of Sark and Adam Monroe have created expectations in his fandom, most likely. I'm enjoying this a lot. I understand some superficial comparisons between this and VMars, but I don't see this going the way of D/V/L. At the very least, I don't get a romance vibe from Blaine and Liv.

I have to say, I was rather impressed at how seamlessly Hook and Ursula's stories fit together. I had to keep reminding myself that they were from two different stories, but I suppose it helps that she's a mermaid and he's a pirate, and that he's previously been associated with Ariel.