DigitalCount

I like that, but at the same time if we're following the actual prophecy, wouldn't that make Lightbringer Rhaegar's, well, yeah? Considering that's what he stabbed Lyanna with that resulted in her death? Also, does that make the joke a few years back about Loras stabbing Renly a clue to the mystery?

I never understood why either of the Baratheon brothers decided to force the issue when they did, other than Lannister plot armor. A united front would have brought the Storm Lords around them, coupled with the power of the Reach. Renly kinda deserved what he got for practically allowing the realm to dissolve just because he was a spoiled brat. Stannis, though, probably should have known better, but at that point he couldn't do much against Renly without war. Frigging plot armor.

Okay, so I was under the impression (from an EW interview maybe?) that most of the Walk was LH, at least at the beginning and end, but most people here are saying it was almost all a double? Also, that was a long scene. I wish that they had taken one minute from that and given Jon the Pink Letter as a catalyst. Priorities, people...

Um...Shireen's death cut Stannis' force in half. I feel that I can state with certainty that Stannis lost the battle because of her death. And if you call Melisandre unfazed...she's been riding the Stannis train for her entire storyline, and then she willingly abandoned him in the face of one failure after another. Furthermore, Brienne was only in a position to kill him because of the weakening of his army that, again, happened as a direct result of his burning of his daughter. So basically, of the characters you mentioned in your post, every single one of them was affected by Shireen's death and had aftermath shown. I mean, this is like last week when people said Stannis' men were so blase about Shireen's burning when the show actually took the time to pan over the faces of guys looking super uncomfortable. I've been enjoying the show, and it's kind of depressing to get here and read people slagging on it, especially when those things being said aren't even accurate.

The surprise isn't the issue. The issue is showing everyone that they're all of one mind in this. Everyone knows how much Thorne hates Jon, so his acting in this manner is a show of good faith. It's for show, but it's absolutely crucial that everyone's on the same page here. This way they can focus on the enemy and not get bogged down in petty nonsense.

It's a possibility that Jon wanted to lend the whole thing some extra legitimacy. No, I didn't sneak in a bunch of wildlings through the back door, the Night's Watch as an institution brought them in above board through the front as an official mission. If he'd gone through Eastwatch there would have been some guys grumbling about him making unilateral decisions against the tradition of the Night's Watch, especially now with Aemon dead. But with the First Ranger welcoming him through the front door, there's not as much grounds for criticism.

Why can't Aria be trusted? I feel like this is probably mostly nonsense or spec.

I really want her to say it out loud so that people can hear the words being said. Just saying, the "mystery" becomes much less of one when you don't have all those book terms in the way.

The thing is, I can't even imagine what genuine fear from Roose would look like. You'd have to have something really ridiculous like Ramsay morphing into a giant, or him waking up tied to a flensing cross made out of ice with the ghosts of Red Wedding victims all holding knives. And even then the best you could probably get is mild to moderate annoyance.

They could have Brienne rescue Sansa and Theon too, giving Ramsay impetus to demand them back. I would really like some sort of real trigger for Jon to want to go to Winterfell right now that I don't think he has just yet.

Yeah, in the books I never really felt like Tywin was the central villain, in the show he was very much exactly that. The show did a much better job than the books of showing just how deep Tywin's complete control of the world really was. Also, I saw an interesting point made somewhere, perhaps on this very board (?) that D&D's attitude toward Stannis may not have influenced their portrayal of him so much as the character influenced their attitude toward him. It's not as if George was spooning them bits of story over the course of years as we're receiving it; they probably knew going in or at least when plotting character arcs that Stannis would eventually burn his beloved daughter at the stake. They have always known that it would be a huge climactic moment of his character. I mean, let's be reasonable here. Why would they just arbitrarily dislike a character and decide to write him shallowly as punishment for the character existing?

Unmarried, but the issue was probably that she was a Sand, while he was a prince of Dorne. The only reason that was even remotely tolerated was because it was Dorne; anywhere else and it would have been a huge deal.

So rewatching the scene, it looks like there are a few soldiers looking glum or uncomfortable when Shireen starts screaming; they actually pan over a couple of people who seem like they'd rather be anywhere else. I figure I missed this at first because I was cringing so hard while watching the first time.

Speaking of great GoT collectibles, those war strategy pieces. If they aren't a thing that can be bought in the real world, people have apparently stopped caring about making money.

But she didn't. She killed the bald guy for maybe being a Son of the Harpy. If the argument is that she should have executed them all anyway on moral grounds--which I disagree with anyway--there are certain concessions one must make. Execution doesn't mean torture to death, it just means put to death. Just because someone is sentenced to death, it doesn't mean you can just toy around with them for the sake of an object lesson. The man was not necessarily guilty of the crime for which he was executed. Even now, people are saying Hizdahr might have been or was probably the Harpy with no evidence of such whatsoever; that's a sign of willingness to cut Dany slack, not the opposite.

Doreah may have betrayed Dany. As far as she (not to mention the audience) knows, Doreah was or just as easily could have been pressed into service by Daxos. At the time I argued that Doreah seemed to be asking for mercy and that she was scared rather than happy, heavily implying her guilt. But it is interesting to note that Dany never once asks the woman she's about to stick in a dark hole to dehydrate if she committed any crimes or if this huge, powerful man may have coerced her somehow.

I feel the need to point out that Jon has never fed a potentially innocent man to Ghost, nor did he kill Ygritte's father and force her into a marriage with him. Most of the Dany dislike comes from the situations where she acts decisively and as if the facts don't matter when they do. This goes back to her sealing Doreah in the vault with Daxos, and I defended that decision. Dany probably does have a good enough heart, but she did make very imperious speeches about being the rightful queen and how she'd burn Qarth to a cinder. She also double-crossed a guy for being sexist and then set him on fire. Jon has yet to freeze people in blocks of ice.

I see Shireen as the opposite of Ramsay; the closest to an all-good character in the series. In a way she's about as unrealistic, a "too good for this sinful earth" character whose pure heart was incorruptible despite all the hardships she suffered. BUT WE NEEDED THIS CHARACTER. People like Ramsay are a dime a dozen in this world. Maybe they aren't quite as bad, but close. Meryn Trant the pedophile. Polliver and his boredom with torture. His pal Gregor. Roose Dracula, who raped Ramsay into existence and flays everybody. Tywin and where the heck do I start. Taking that good, sweet little person and having her plead to help her father, who she loves as much as a child could love anyone, then having her beg for her life as she suffers the worst execution the show has--that's bad enough, but it's her father doing the burning. That was a gut punch so hard it hit my spine. And they even had her echo his words from that lovely speech and hug him so tightly, like what on earth is this nonsense? It wasn't painful enough before?

Threatening him with dragons is kind of a big deal when she arbitrarily fed another guy to them. Then, she held him in a dark dungeon and forced him to marry her. Further, I think the spec that he was a Harpy morphed into some sort of false confirmation, because I'm pretty sure he just got stabbed to death by Harpies. On top of that, she executed Hizdad for a crime he didn't commit.

That was Meryn (f***ing) Trant, who killed Syrio Forel, First Sword of Braavos (Arya's fencing instructor) way back in S1. He also punched Sansa a few times IIRC, but Arya doesn't know that.

So, after watching this episode, I am in full Tyra Banks "how dare you" mode. I couldn't believe it. I honestly could not believe it. Although, in the light of day I guess it could theoretically be what happens, after that story about the grayscale I got lulled into a false sense of security. Then Shireen repeated what he said to her and I was like screw. this. Mel needs to ironically die in a fire. Stannis should also ironically die, I guess at Dany's hands because she believes it's her duty to rule and thus she has to burn him to a crisp with Drogon. I guess if we want to kill Dany ironically, she could have some random person wondering whether or not she's guilty of a crime and just arbitrarily decide "well, let's kill her anyway." Frigging heck that was hard to watch. Hizdahr dies, of course. Guy was trying to bridge worlds together and he got killed for his troubles, and Dany gives no hoots because he was just a pawn anyway. Or, he had some packages of ketchup under his clothes and he's really the Harpy. Either way, Dany bounces to save her own skin because why not. I'm wondering if the Pink Letter even occurs this season. Can they really push back glaring Olly to S6? Something will be missing if we don't get stab wounds by the end. But maybe they have a contrast of letters with Cersei and Sansa both trying to reach out to their brothers? I feel as if Sansa's going to be the one to write the letter on the show.

I thought Finn Jones (Loras) threw the script.

I don't know. Back in the day when Ali was dead, Veronica was my main choice for the person who killed her, and I've always thought it had to be a Hastings. Jessica was always a weirdo, and probably a good amount of the reason Ali ended up so screwed up, but Veronica was very bitter a lot of the time toward Ali, which made me think that she blamed her for a lot that may not have all been warranted. But this is the spoiler thread so I'll take it to... do we have an all seasons thread?

I can understand that she might be a bit more alarmed about Spencer having a romantic relationship with someone trying to help her get better. That probably crosses more boundaries than many of the other people Spencer was involved with. Thinking about it now, I'm starting to think addiction or substance abuse runs in that family. Wasn't that situation a relapse for Spencer? And if I remember correctly, Jason may have had some experience with using drugs. It's been a while though, so I might be mistaken about that.