ILoveReading

The problem is that Dean had the situation under control. He was trying to talk to Emma and help her see that she did have a choice. Emma was a teenager, untrained and had a knife. Dean is a trained fighter (when the show remembers anyway) and he had a gun. He had aimed on her. She wasn't attacking. Sam busting in escalated the situation. It triggered Emma into reacting and thinking she needed to protect herself. IMO, this is a big reason why it comes across as tit for tat. Sam snidely bringing up Amy, after he admitted Dean was right, didn't help matters. Same as with Benny. It felt more spiteful than protective.

In s12 they strongly implied that Lucifer was influencing Jack in the womb with that whole scene where Lucifer whispers his name. There was a brief scene in episode 2 where Jack flashed back to Lucifer contacting him. It was showed that he wouldn't let Kelly die. She attempted suicide. Jack prevented it. So its a false narrative to say that Kelly chose to have Jack. Jack didn't give her a choice. We never saw what Cas saw but it was also strongly implied he was brainwashed. But the show seemed to want to ignore this for baby nougat just wants to help everyone and be loved. Then they doubled up on the mean Dean to make Jack seem even more like a sweet and innocent snowflake and make it look like Dean was just searching for excuses. I don't believe the showrunners that they were going for a nature/nurture debate. It was decided day one, not to mention canon on screen text that if Jack went bad it was Dean's fault not because he was the son of Satan. The writers didn't care about Jack's satan half. I think the true purpose was to make Dean look like the bad guy.

That wasn't my favorite shirt. I'm also not a fan of the shirt he had on in Ask Jeeves. Now the red shirt of bad decisions....where's my ice

Sam coudn't make the Emma situation all about Sam. That's the only difference I see.

Moving on to episode 12 1. Faith- This is one of my favorite episodes of the series. It deals with the main themes of the series. What makes a monster, and the consequences of saving each other. The music cues were perfect. We pealed back another layer of Dean Winchester and got inside his walls. He had nice chemistry with Layla. I was surprised when it turned out to be the wife. Dean's "I'll pray for you." Death was still mysterious. There was a really nice blink and you'll miss it moment. It takes place just as Dean returns from the hospital. He walks into the hotel room and Sam turns his back for a moment to close the door. We see Dean's face scrunch up in pain and his hand move toward his chest. When Sam turns back, Dean's hand drops quickly and his game face is firmly back in place. It's these little things that make Jensen such a good actor. I also have a head canon that it really was Chuck that reached out to the reverend and told him Dean's important job. He's the firewall between light and dark. 2. Nightshifter- This is another near perfect episode. I loved everything about it. Dean's relationship with Ronald. Him taking charge. Dean's relationship with Hendrikson was so interesting. (His was the first death I would never forgive the show for) It has the best music cue of the entire series. The phone call between Hendrikson and Dean was one of my favorite underated Dean moments. Basically, I loved about the Dean/Hendrikson dynamic. 3. Jus in Bello- This is another great episode, other than Hendrikson's death. He would have made such a great hunter and ally to Sam and Dean. *Sigh. Such a waste of a great character. This one had lots of great Dean moments. It gave me leader Dean, which is my favorite characteristic. Smart, thinking outside of the box Dean. Another one of my favorite characteristics. His plan was a good one. He saved the majority of the people. Its not his fault one of them escaped. I liked that Dean wans't willing to trust a demon. Ruby's agenda was to get Sam to turn darkside. There was no guarantee she was telling the truth. 4. Criss Angel is a Douchebag- This ep was mostly about the magicians. I can't even really remember any stand out Dean moments. 5. Swap Meat- One of the worst episodes of the series. It was the first episode I almost turned off. Halfway through, I picked up my book and started reading. For Sam and Dean having this supposed super duper bond, it took Dean way to long to figure it out, and the show didn't' do itself any favors when the trigger for Dean was that Sam was nice to him and wanted to hang out with him. Plus, who cares if they left a dead kid on the floor of his parents basement but who cares becasue Gary got a girlfriend. Massive eye roll. It also didn't help that this ep introduced another dropped plot point of demons having a bounty on Dean's head. 6. Like a Virgin- This is another ep I didn't like. The dragons were lame and I really disliked the scene with the sword in the rock. Yes, Jensen has good comedic skills but I didn't like the message it sent. 7. Time after Time- I liked this this one. We had smart Dean, with his out of the box thinking. I loved Nick Lea's Krycek on The X-Files and he and Dean had some nice chemistry. The only thing that dampened this episode for me was the conversation in the car when Dean once again had the words boo hoo thrown at him and his feelings invalidated. Why should Dean open up when everyone tells him to suck his feelings back up. Shallow moment. I love a man in a well fitting suit, and Dean dressed as a person from the 40s- I need some ice. 8. As Time Goes By- This was an okay ep. I liked Dean's interactions with Henry. But I disliked the turn back to "I must protect Sammy" turn this episode took. But I did like Dean's idea to put the devil's trap on the bullet. 9. Sharp Teeth- This one had some nice Dean moments. It had smart/thinking outside of the box Dean with him wearing the two jackets to fool the werewolves. Jensen's acting for me in season 9 was on a whole different level and this ep was no exception. I felt bad for him when Garth brought up Kevin. He's still beating himself up over Kevin's death. It gave me one of my favorite descriptions of Dean. "He could start a fight in an empty house but underneath he's a big ole Teddy Bear." So true. That knife throw....excuse me I need more ice. 10. About a Boy- This is another one I liked. We got another little glimpse of Dean's childhood and I liked his interactions with Tina. Dylan Everett does a really good job. 11. Don't you Forget about Me- This was more of an unofficial backdoor pilot for Wayward sisters. I did like Dean telling off Claire for her attitude against Jody. Plus, shallow moment, Dean looked like a model walking down the hallway in his suit. 12. Stuck in the Middle With You- Zero redeeming qualities. Dean wasn't even needed for this ep. I like to pretend it doesn't exist. 13. Various and Sundry Villains- Jensen did a nice job with the comedy stuff, but I didn't really like this ep. Overall episode 12 is a mixed bag, but I liked more than I disliked. Favorite ep- tie between Nightshifter and Faith. Least favorite- Stuck in the Middle with you.

According to Danneel, Arrow is crying becasue she wanted to sit in the middle.

Jack: Can there be anyone more boring then me.

If it was the afternoon panels, then its possible the people were in the question line up. If it was an older video before Creation put the lottery in place the question lines for Jensen and Jared were pretty long. In the question line there are some conversations, usually they're pretty short and quiet (at least in my experience). There is the odd rude fan but I find they're usually the exception not the norm. In my experiences cons are fun, and the people are pretty welcoming and open.

I've been to several conventions and people walking around don't seem to interupt. I've found people pretty respectful of those trying to take photos or video. If people were walking around it may be possible they were getting up and going to photo ops. Jensen's is usually right after the gold panel, so people may get up a couple of minutes early to try and beat the crowd. When a panel ends it can take awhile to get out as everyone is trying to leave at once. The Gold panel is a lot more casual and since its only for Gold package ticket holders, there aren't as many people. But the cons I've been to I've never noticed any disruptions.

This. When Dean tried to step between Lucifer and Jack he was lectured about having to let Jack make up his own mind. Everyone discounted that lying manipulator part to once again act like Dean was trying to control Jack. It almost backfired on them because no one really stepped into to explain what really happened or that Lucifer was trying to portray himself as the victim. Sometimes parents have to be the heavy. It's like Dean's story about CBGBs. You don't let your kid play in traffic so s/he can learn why its not a good idea. It seems SPN's version of parenting is yes, no and how high and if you disagree your too controlling and you need to back off. If this is SPN's version of parenting, I'd rather not see any more of it, for Sam, Cas or Dean. Because if Jack is such a precious sweet soul he'll never make a wrong decision, why does he even need an parent?

Despite Dabb's words about the Winchesters being dads in the end it was really just Sam, as Dean wanted nothing to do with Jack. So as @catrox14 pointed out Jack's "formative years" were shaped by Sam alone. Dean and Cas really had nothing to do with it. So I'm not seeing how Sam stepping up to parent is really going to be anything different then we already saw.

Exactly. I mean if Jack just has to wave his hand to destroy the monster hunts are going to get boring real fast. So what do the writers do with him? Its already firmly established he's on Team Winchester so its not like there is (or ever was) going to be a big mystery about nature vs nurture. Jack seems like the equivalent of Cousin Oliver.

Sweet bag of Cinnamon sugar seems to be back this season.

Given how cheesy the fight and freeze frame was and how the wire fight came out, and how one sided it was, I do think Dabb/Singer are writing this storyline to set Dean up to fail so when it comes time for the real battle against Michael and Lucifer there will be a show based reason to put Dean on the bench and give OW Michael to Sam. Hopefully Singer doesn't hold it against Jensen for not liking the wire fight. Both Singer and Dabb come across as being very petty. See their treatment of of Mark Sheppard.

Unpopular opinion. This is why I feel the writers are lazy. Even the actors are noticing. This is in response to someone asking how Chuck bought Cas back from the Empty if he has no power over it. To bad the writers couldnt' make this kind of effort.

I don't think this really applies in Dean's situation because the reason he he started torturing was stop being tortured himself. He didn't first pick up the blade for enjoyment. He really didn't have much of a choice but to keep going. I figure if he stopped and refused he would have been put back on the rack himself.

Since its Hiatus, I thought I would start up Dean discussions again. Discuss Dean in episode 11 (I think this is where I left off). 1. Scarecrow- I really liked this one. It had that B horror movie feel. I really expected the scarecrow to start moving. I don't mind tension or fighting among the brothers if it feels organic and I felt like this fight did. It had been building and finally came to a head. Jensen was great in that scene where he apologized to Sam. I just wish we had gotten more from Sam's end. It gave me one of my favorite lines. "I hope your apple pie is freakin' worth it." 2. Playthings- It did establish Dean's love for Daphne, so it was nice to see the continuity with Scoobynatural. I didn't have a personal computer back then so I was shocked to learn that Maggie was imaginary. (I think it was Maggie, its been awhile since I watched this). I felt for Dean in this one. When he said he never had a home and when Sam made him promise to take him out if he goes dark side. I really liked the homage to The Shining with the scene between Dean and the butler in the bar. IMO, thats how you do a homage. The dolls were creepy. I miss the horror element that episodes like Scarecrow and this one gave us. 3. Mystery Spot- This was more of a Sam episode, but I enjoyed it. Jensen did a good job with Dean's many deaths. 4. Family Remains- I wasn't a fan of this episode. It required too many WTF moments to make the plot work and I felt bad the kids. I kind of have a head canon that there were so many mistakes made because Dean was running on empty. But I don't think that was deliberate. (I think Carver wrote this). It took a dark turn at the end when Dean said he enjoyed torturing. A bold move. I don't think Dean actually ever enjoyed it. If he did he wouldn't feel guilty. I think it was more about a sense of relief of getting off the rack and being in control. Jensen continues to deliver during these scenes. Its part of the reason why Jack was such a failure. I'd be more worried if Dean unleashed his dark side. But that's a topic for another thread. 5.Sam Interrupted- I loved this ep. I never understood when it was called Sam Interrupted when it was far more about Dean. It showed just how much responsibility Dean was shouldering. I have to admit was I surprised when the psychiatrist was revealed to be in Dean's head. I wish the show would give us more eps like this and What is. Dean's screwed to hell psyche makes for some fascinating eps and discussion. Jensen was great as always. "Pudding." 6. Appointment in Samarra- This is another really good ep. I've always enjoyed the dynamic between Dean and Death and this ep gave it to me in spades. I also really like Dean/Tessa. It was nice to see Robert Englund. I just wish we got to see him again. It's one of those times where Death does a favor for Dean. I asked Julian about why Death does favours for Dean, and he said its because he's cute, plus he feels he's kind of an uncle towards Dean. I like Lisa but give me more Julian too please. 7. Adventures in Babysitting- Not my favorite ep, and I really disliked the directing in the end where Dean is basically just forced to stand there so Krissy can get the kill. But this did give me what is probably my favorite non verbal acting from Jensen, when Dean was practicing his smiles. Never have I seen such sad smiles. Nothing reached his eyes. Give Jensen an Emmy already. 8. LARP and the Real Girl- I'm not a big Charlie fan so this wasn't one of my favorite eps. I really disliked Charlie's line about Dean ruining Sam's happiness and Dean basically waiting to get permission from Sam to have fun. But I did enjoy Dean's enthusiasm for LARPing. Shallow moment, Jensen looked great in that outfit. 9. First Born- I can't give Dean in this ep enough love. Its one of my favorite eps of the series. Lots of Dean/Crowley interaction. It was the beginning of Drowley. I loved Tim O's Cain. He and Jensen had great chemistry. It was an interesting addition to the mythology. It gave Dean his first mytharc in years. What can I say about that badass fight scene. Cain calmly sitting there shucking corn while it was happening made it better. I also love Dean's ability to improvise and use what's around him. He's this show's MacGyver. Did I mention Jensen needs an Emmy. 10. There is No Place Like Home- Not one of my favorites. To much making Charlie into a Mary Sue. But I did like Jensen's performance. I could feel his struggle to try to stay on the straight and narrow. 11. Into The Mystic- Again more of a Sam ep, but I did like Dean's interactions with Mildred. Having an actress like Dee Wallace made what could have been very cringe worthy scenes into something poignant. Jensen and Dee had some great chemistry. Althougth the scene where Dean starts banging his head off the wall was disturbing. 12. Regarding Dean- Another one of my favorites. Jensen was fantastic in this one. The Mirror scene made me really for Dean. I just wish it hadn't been cut. Its another ep Jensen should have gotten an emmy for. (IIRC, Jensen received and honorable mention for performer of the week). I just wish they had gone into the darker side of the curse a little more. I also liked the scenes between Rowena and Dean. Jensen's "sucks to be that guy" had me chuckling. He has such great comedic timing. 13. Breakdown- More of a Donna ep. I did like this one because it gave us lots of Leader Dean. Which is my favorite characteristic. Overall episode 11 seems to be a good one for Dean. Favorite ep- First Born. Least favorite ep- There's No Place like Home.

I personally don't find the relationship between Dean and Mary that complex. mainly because its practically non existent. Dean reaches out a hand, Mary smacks it away and runs in the other direction. I really don't think Mary wants to be in her sons lives.

This isn't unpopular with me, because I agree.

Here is the dialogue: bolding mine He includes himself and Sam when talking about stopping all evil and then specifically mentions if the world was safe. So I think Dean is talking about retiring only if the majority of monsters were gone

That's why that sounded familiar. It seems they even copy and pasted the "I need a win" from that ep too. To quote Sam. "Do they even have an orginial thought?" As for Dean's retirement, I figured the same, that it would be when the monsters were all but extinct, not that Dean would put it all on Jack. But its not really that much of a burden for the sweet bag of cinnamon sugar, all he has to do is wave his hand the monster will fall down dead.

Mary's doing a pretty good job at making Dean think this since she runs from him every chance she gets. I don't see how things can be square between them when Mary still doesn't understand the depth of how the deal affected Dean. He down played it so much and she doesn't seem to want to know what he went through. She can pay lip service to it but she really has zero clue about Dean's life and she's never once showed an interest in it. Its all been "me me me." with Mary. I think its there's a reason why Dean was able to say Mary was dead without a body and why he couldnt' speak the words with regards to Cas. He was happy when Cas came back, he called it his win. Not his mother. He also had a very unhurried attitude in the middle part of the season. it was like he didn't care about anything. Not even Sam's mental state.

I've watched the show, I know the sequence of steps. I'm not talking about Mary's actions. Of course he's not going to feel resentment for her going after Lucifer. I'm talking about Dean's feelings. I'm not sure they're square. Dean got some catharsis but Mary still doesn't seem to see Dean. She's happy he forgave her but that's all about Mary. She says she loves them, but it comes across as name only, they're her sons. But does she actually like them? In my opinion these are two different things. It doesn't seem like it. But at the same time, Dean has experienced repeated rejections from her, she doesn't seem to have an interest in his life. He told her he went to hell and that he was never a child and all she cared about was defending working with the Brits. Nothing he's been through seems to have any kind of impact on her. So he might be happy she's alive but at the same time, I could understand if part of him wishes she had never come back.

From @catrox14 in the Beat The Devil thread This is an interesting observation. It would make an interesting question to ask Jensen at a con. I also noticed that Dean didn't include Mary in his retirement plans. It does make sense since she's done nothing but reject him since she's gotten back, it has to be just another disappointment of him.

Will respond in the Dean thread.