ILoveReading

http://guardianlv.com/2014/11/supernatural-actors-were-not-happy-with-demon-dean-storyline/ I don't have exact links but he's said it at multiple cons and in interviews that he wished it had lasted longer.

As a hard core Dean fan and I'd like to see this the same way I was excited for season 4 when Dean went to hell, when they first introduced the Cain and the Mark I wanted Dean to finish the episode with the mark. I wanted to see more of Dean and Amara's connection and Demon Dean, and Dean in Purgatory. None of those things were going to end well for Dean, but for me as a viewer it made for good television. I could have watched an entire season of Demon Dean. It sounds like Jensen was disappointed as well, despite it being something Dean never wanted. If I watched hoping only good things would happen to characters, there wouldn't be much on TV to watch, other than sitcoms where all the problems are solved in a half hour. For me personally watch Dean literally being reduced to bathing and feeding Sam and making burgers is not exciting to watch in the least. There are still a few s8 episodes I haven't seen. They managed to do something I never thought possible. They made Dean boring. I'd take dark destinies and vessledom anytime because not only would it be exciting to watch also as much as I'm a hard core Dean gal, I'm an even harder core Jensen gal who loves to see him get to stretch his acting muscles.

If Dean was so important than why was an avatar of Dean needed when Dean was right there? Why was a toy solider we had never seen of or heard before shown to have more influence over Sam than Dean's physical presence promising to never leave Sam. IMO, this episode not only showed how expendable Dean was but a plastic toy is more effective. Lucifer was going or the killing blow when the sunlight hit the car and Sam saw Sam's toy (it wasn't even Dean's toy) and seeing the toy is what triggered Sam's memories. If we were meant to for it to be Dean promising to never leave Sam that allowed Sam to overcome Lucifer there was no need for the car/toy combo. It made Dean (physically) redundant and way to easy to dimiss Dean's contribution Cas and Bobby showed up at the cemetery and sacrificed themselves for Sam too, so its not like even Dean got to do that alone. Based on the exact way the scene was written, if Cas had enough mojo to zap Dean to the cemetery and he didn't bring the impala, Dean would be dead and the apoclypse would have happened. The toy solider was the key there. Personally, I don't find emo all that exciting to watch over the long term. Give me an actual storyline where my fave gets to over come his dark destiny over letting go anyday. Even Jensen described the Mark of Cain as a rare Dean centric storyline. Learning to let go can be done completely off screen, and also giving the nature of the show its not an actual lesson that can stick, unless Jared decided not to renew his contract. Once Sam was in the cage Dean immediately started looking for a way to bust him out, so not only was Dean's (physical) role completely redundant, but he didn't even learn what he was apparently supposed to. I will never buy Kripke's BS that Dean needed to learn to love Sam more. He sold his soul for Sam. That's not exactly a way to ensure he'll be with Sam. I've always felt that Dean's real issue is that he can't live with feeling like he failed to protect Sam, more than he can't live without him. We saw that when Sam was at college. Dean only went to him when their dad disappeared. So we see Dean can let go.

You're not the only one. I found Baby more about the car than anything. Dean got focus in the 2nd half while Sam got it in the first. Dean's been pushed to the sidelines so much I actually started to believe those rumors that Jensen might be leaving. Despite, the premier setting up the Amara story, all Dabb could talk about at comic con was ep 2 starting a big Sam story and Sam's visions. In Form and Void he's reduced to literal babysitter while Sam gets to cure Darkness rabies and save a bunch of people. Its like Dabb forgot to put Dean in his script in Devil in the Details and had to go back and figure out a way to shoehorn him in. What is with this smiting sickness that basically kept Dean out of his own storyline. Don't even get me started on Red Meat. Not to mention there have been no consequences for killing death. Billie has interacted with Dean twice now and not even mentioned it. Jensen is still talking about being confused as to how exactly to play scenes with Amara. This last ep had her tracking Rowena and she was very much Dean WHo? Jensen and Emily had to sell their storyline with one look and no help from the writers. No, I don't need another new character at this point.

Probably because they have so many plot lines to wrap up, barely any focus on Dean/Amara, barely any focus on Dean period this season. I don't think we had one episode that revolved exclusively around Dean. I don't need another new character at this point. Its too crowded as it is.

I really hope so too. I remember Jensen tweeting a pic of what looked like Dean in a hospital bed, so either Jensen was trolling us or there is more to the ep. A cool twist would be if in the process of saving Sam, Dean gets bit by a werewolf so while Sam has a major injury Dean's is actually far more deadly. I'm going to be so disappointed if they go down the Dean makes a deal route. I don't need to see Dean being given any more lectures from St. Sam. I'm also going to be so disappointed if Lucifer saves Sam. Everything with Lucifer is so been there done that and next week still looks like a big Lucifer/Cas ep. I'm still waiting for a Dean centered ep. The Amara storyline has been pretty much back-burnered since the premier. I'd like to see that get some focus. Its getting to the point where I just want to scoff at the so-called bond because its pretty non-existent. There has been no interaction between Dean and Amara since ep 9 and Amara didn't even seem to care that it was Cas that showed up instead of Dean. What happened to "We'll never let any harm come to each other." Seems like the writers forgot about it or dropped it. The scene at the end of Safe House feel flat because Dean doesn't seem like he's drawn to Amara any more than she is to him. if you really want to freak Dean out, he should have seen Amara in the nest. Sam was obvious. It shows that he feels that draw even if he doesn't want it. If Im supposed to belief they are connected I need to start seeing it on screen. Not just words. They need to start showing little things, like Dean zoning out, or him having dreams of Amara. Show me that they feel a pull. What I'd like to see from this ep is Amara have some hand in saving Sam and/or Dean without Dean asking. Show her trying to get on Dean's good side. If she saves Sam, Dean is going to feel some gratitude toward her which might make him more vulnerable to whatever plans she has on him.

So it looks like they really are just going to repeat the final arc of s5. I bet Sam will start to think about saying yes. Dean, if he's lucky might get to make Sam a sandwich before the final fight with Amara or bring Sam his toy of the week.

Someone asked Jared a question in the breakfast panel about how Sam would feel if he ever met God. His answer was something along the lines of keep watching. I'm expecting episode 20 to be Just My Imagination ramped up, with God in the place of Sully, with the Sam pimping completely over the top and out of control.

Jensen said he hadn't read the script yet in one of the panels.

I always felt that was more of a plot point to give Sam and excuse to go into Lucifer's cage by himself. The very next episode we get a never heard of before smiting sickness that kept Dean out of his own plot. Amara didn't seem to miss Dean.

According to the Gold Panel Dean fans get an exciting scene of Dean ironing Sam's shirt. Guess chauffeur and cook weren't enough. They need to add literal maid. Im not sure I'd label Amara and obession for Dean since unless he's two feet in front of her she seems to forget he exists. The so-called bond doesn't even exist unless their two feet from each other. I don't think this plot has advanced anywhere since the premier.

I really want you to be right. I always thought an interesting direction to take this story is if Amara, didn't have Dean's soul but a piece of it. (I know its not supposed to be able to be split, but LOL!canon) After all, Amara had to be born and that first soul had to come from somewhere. I got a tiny amount of hope that they might really be linked when Amara got woozy after Dean did in 11,9. The only way I'd be okay with Sam taking the lead in attempting to kill Amara is finding out that due to the link if you kill Amara, you kill Dean because she has a bit of his soul in her. At least that way, Dean's still an active participant in things.

I believe that if the writers considered it an important plot point Carver wouldn't have started the response with "That one is left up to the viewers to decide." That alone cements my interpretation as "No clue because we don't actually care anything about this story." From the sounds of Jensen's meet and greet at the con last weekend, someone said they were confused about the Amara/Dean thing. Jensen's response was "me to." They're filming ep 18. If no writers has a definitive idea how how Amara is effecting Dean, that doesn't bode well for as it clearly indicates the writers didn't even seem to discuss it or plan anything beyond Dean and Amara have a connection.

This was the exact lesson Dean was made to learn in s5 when he had to stand by and watch as Sam said yes to Lucifer. I'd rather Dean be involved actively involved in the final fight, anything else is just a repeat of Swan Song. I didn't like it the first time, I don't need it a 2nd time.

From the spoiler thread I remember when the press release for Trial and Error came out and it said that one brother would do the trials. My first impression (and that of some of my fellow Dean fans) was to wonder why they were bothering to even pretend there was any debate on who it would be. There was never any doubt in my mind it would be Sam. Then it was. I saw lots of speculation about how Dean would have a part to play in the trials. Then the angel trials were mention and again there was speculation that Dean would get them. They went to Cas. Even Jensen described is role as "Guilty cheerleader. The only spoiler we had for Dean during the back half of 8 was Dean would hang stuff in his room. Then the writers admitted they never even considered Dean for the trials, that his name wasn't mentioned in the planning of the back half of season 8. The only Dean spoiler we've had all year is that Dean gets hit on by an elderly lady. That already happened. No other Dean spoilers have been even hinted at. In Dabb's episode we have a never been seen before smiting sickness to keep Dean away from Amara. Amara not taking Dean's soul whether because she decided not to or couldn't should be a major plot point. According to Carver its just "oh well, were happy to let you guys can decide for yourself." Sam says "I got this", not we or us or you (meaning Dean) are strong enough. Just I, meaning Sam and Sam alone. On top of season 8 and everything that has happened so far (or more accurately hasn't happened) so far it doesn't instill a lot of confidence that Dean is going to be allowed to do anything more than watch during the big confrontation. Id love to be wrong but I honestly see nothing show related that even remotely suggests they are going to start focusing on Dean or that he has any part to play. To many flashing neon signs right now.

Taking my response to the bitterness thread.

In all fairness, after the premier this was a backburnered storyline. Other than that she's God's sister we know nothing about Amara, which Im sure the writers did just because it sounded cool. What did Amara do that was so terrible God felt the need to lock her away? What's her end game? Why is she drawn to Dean? What is the nature of her bond with Dean? (I doubt the writers even know). Why didnt she take Dean's soul? Was it that she couldn't or wouldn't? According to Carver, they are perfectly content to let audience make up their on mind. In Carver speak- we never discussed and have no idea. The so-called bond with Amara doesn't exist unless they are three feet from each other, Then its little more than a staring contest. Amara lost this confrontation twice already. It's hard to buy that this connection that strong when we don't see it really effecting Dean's day to day life and we don't see it unless its a mytharc ep. Then its little more than a literal blink and you'll miss it. I figure now that this story belongs to Sam, it might start getting some attention but Dean's connection to the darkness will most likely end up joining the ever growing lost potential Dean storylines. I guess they were hoping if they wrapped things in a shiny BM the audience wouldn't notice that Dean was most likely written out of his own storyline and that it would make the audience forget that in his last two confrontations with Amara Dean managed to break her hold. This is Trial and Error all over again. I've been predicting that Sam will end up taking Amara into The Empty ever since Billy made a point of mentioning it in episode 2. It was said that God tricked Amara and locked her up in the Mark of Cain. My theory is that the Hand of God that Dean goes looking for in the next episode is some kind of knife or brand that God used to create the mark on Lucifer in the first place. dean will hand the knife to Sam to use when the time comes because the show sent a clear message that Dean is too weak to over come Amara. (but don't forget to ignore he did twice already). He may not use the first blade, but I suspect that the finale is going to be a repeat of Swan Song (I wouldn't even put it past the writers to just name it Swan Song two). Sam will say yes to Lucifer, put the Mark on his skin, trick Amara and then go into the empty with both of them.

Maybe Dean is following Sam's new rules where they're supposed to put saving others before saving themselves. The more likely explanation is that Dean doesn't know Sam needs rescuing. As for as Dean is concerned Sam is topside waiting for him to get back. He has no clue Sam went back on his word.

I'm mostly a lurker but does anyone know approxiametly what time the Jensen part of the interview is in the podcast. I don't want to listen to all 90 minutes of it.

I think Crowley left orders that no demon was to answer Sam if he tried to summon one. Then he over heard Lester in a bar, or something, talking about getting revenge on his cheating wife. Sam, desperate, tells Lester about deals and instructs him how to summon a demon and make one. Then he hides and captures Dar after Lester is done making the deal.