ILoveReading

Last time I watched the pilot, I found myself rooting for the fire.

I was kind of disappointed to see Jared so scruffy because that probably means depressed mopey Sam is back.

It wasn't on this board.

Evidence that Lucifer might be back Mark hinting at several cons that Lucifer was still alive becasue of Nephlim Grace. Mark P, retweeting this tweet Then I saw this on Tumblr http://fawnjensen.tumblr.com/post/175823178533/yo-whats-with-this-the-devil-will-rise-again If you click the link, the page has a spoiler for the walking dead that plays automatically. While none of this is direct evidence when I put it together with Dabb's never ending love affair with Mark P and Lucifer, and the writers lack of creativity, I think the odds are more in favor of Lucifer coming back than staying dead. I'm even have a bet with my friend its before the first commercial break.

Go for it. :-)

From @catrox14 in the regular spoiler thread: The writers have a habit of repeating Dean's storylines with Sam. The writers have also demonstrated they don't care about past canon and storylines. So speculating that Sam will end up saying yes to to Michael at some point isn't a WAG. It's a very probable outcome to this storyline. After all the writers had no problem with Sam being the one to use Michael's spear.

Will respond in bitter spoilers just to be on the safe side.

thanks. So for my WAGs Sam would be the brother given the Trials. Sam getting the mark, That removing the mark Cain would release all that anger, and evil the mark absorbed though the years as a destructive force. I'm giving myself half a point on that one. Because it started out that way before they pulled its God's sister out of their collective posteriors. Predicting the plot of Brother's Keeper, including htat Death would ask Dean to kill Sam and Dean would end up killing death instead. I also predicted that there would be no follow up to Dean killing death. My WAGs turn out pretty accurate most of the time. lol

Whats a WAG?

I think for me it comes across as a storyline. We hear that the guy got in shape to take care of his wife. Then the next year we find out both their daughters had the disease, then they find a treatment plan that works and suddenly she's competing. I'm not saying their story isn't genuine and I do hope her health continues to improve. They seem like a nice couple, but it feels like the plot of a life time movie. And I feel bad writing that too.

He could mean he's doing fight training for an upcoming scene. Unless AU Bobby was an Olympic boxer before the apocalypse too.

No, its not completely crazy but it shouldn't happen overnight. It should take time to build a relationship. I found the more they tried to turn Bobby into a father figure the more they turned him into John who repeated the same dynamics John did with Sam and Dean. Sam matters, Dean is the bodyguard/not a person. I'd rather they just be colleagues. The paternal relationship shouldn't be there because they don't know this Bobby, and he doesn't know them. It's the same with Charlie. The way they had Dean react it was like he was confusing her with OW Charlie. They keep saying that she's this great military leader and Ketch should thank his lucky stars Charlie allowed him to tag along. But both times we saw her she was captured and needed resucing. Not exactly a great track record. I need the show, not the tell.

I really hope not. Once Dean is free I'd rather no one be possessed again

The QOTD seems to suggest this is about saving Dean, but I hope it doesn't mean that they already caught up with him.

Here are the scenes they filmed yesterday so it seems that Cas is either beat up at the start in scene 5, or in the middle of the ep.

I wish the writers would learn there are other ways to create angst rather than just beating someone up. Here is a picture of the tapeball from yesterday IIRC, Jensen is blue. So the lack of blue on the ball implies Jensen didn't film yesterday. So I'm guessing Lucifer rises from the dead and beats up Cas. He's the only other one that would make sense, unless Jack has suddenly gone darkside for.....reasons. From Jim Beaver: Yet another hint Lucifer will probably be back

Same, because his sanctimonious lecturing is going to be all the more grating because he doesn't know Sam or Dean, their life, their experiences, their traumas, or their resason for doing things. He has no right to criticize the things they do. It will be even more annoying.

Bobby isn't back. He's salted and burned. This is a guy who looks and sounds like Bobby but has no relationship with Sam and Dean. He shouldn't have any one. They're complete strangers to him. So if they have Bobby 2.0 suddenly all concerned about Sam and Dean and have him act the exact same way towards them, its lazy writing. AU characters aren't supposed to be interchangeable, but I suspect they're going to cheat and have this Bobby act exactly like original Bobby.

I have no doubt that if Season 8 and 9 had been reversed and Dean had did the trials and told Sam, "who are you going to turn to next, another dog, another demon" The reaction would not have been "yay Dean standing up for himself." Had that happened and Sam tricked Dean into being possessed when Dean found out the truth, I have no doubt Sam would have been given a speech "You told me to put you first, dont get mad when I do it." Because the show is allergic to Sam saying sorry without adding a whole list of ifs, and, buts, and qualifiers how everybody's faults made Sam do it in the first place. Yes, Dean could have been more apologetic but at least Sam was allowed to hold on to his anger. When Dean told Sam he could come back after whole Ruby mess, Sam got a very special episode of manipulative writing to make Dean the bad guy and Sam got to lecture Dean about how if they were going to work together Dean had to change and not keep Sam in the dog house. Yet after Sharp Teeth, Sam made a choice to come back. He got to rake Dean over the coals and keep Dean in the dog house. So it seems Sam has clear double standards. When it comes to these situations. That's where my problem with the writing lies. Sam gets a lot of free passes where his behaviour is swept under the rug. The only outcome of the brother conflict I found satisfactory was when Dean called Sam a bitch over the Amy thing. When Dean came back from hell, and when he came back from purgatory Sam seemed to resent Dean both times. Because Sam doesn't like being told no. IMO, Sam doesn't want a brother or a partner he wants a yes man. So I would say Sam has his chance now to get away from sloppy needy Dean and be the big brother. Why would he want or need Dean back if all Dean does is put Sam at the kiddie table?

The only moment I can really remember of her asking her sons about themselves was in 12.02 where Mary asked Sam why he went back to hunting. Other than that everything else has been kind of shallow and superficial like beef jerky flavors and music. The writers don't seem capable of anything beyond. Layers aren't exactly their strong suit.

Looks like there is a good chance Bobby is going to be in the premier.

Because their partner ship with the BMOL wasn't limited. It was full on "in" with them. Limited, IMO would have been them taking cases and that was it. Not filing reports and asking how high when the Brits said jump. Despite Dean saying if things seemed sketchy, they'd bail. They didn't. They should have bailed after Ladies Drink Free, and definitely after The British Invasion. They didn't. They dug in deeper. Like Sam said he followed, willingly. IICR, the first time Sam and and Dean worked with Crowley they were blackmailed by him. Once of the excuses I've seen used to excuse Sam's behavior time and time again was that he didnt' trust Benny because of the whole Ruby situation. So it seems like once again Sam's double standards are at work. He wants to work with them so they get a chance. IMO, the difference is that Dean tends to be weary. I don't think he ever full on trusted. Sam does. This is exactly what I was addressing. The show excused Sam for lying and manipulating. There was one throw away line about how he shouldn't have joined that was easily dismissed in that big "follow me" speech. Because why that speech even necessary? None of there other hunters joined the Brits. The fact that that speech left out Dean entirely and had Dean gaze adoringly, doesn't suggest Sam was wrong to me. There were no negative consequences to Ketch going with Dean in the AU. Dean saved "Charlie" and Sam with his super special, never seen before profound bond with Gabe pulled him out of his catatonic state. Despite that, they certainly allowed Sam to be vocal about how wrong Dean was to go without Sam and put Sam at the kiddie table. The show doesn't tend to shy away from giving Sam a POV if he's unhappy with Dean's actions. So we will have to agree to disagree here. IMO, nothing about Sam's actions with regard to joining the Brits and how he chose to go about it was shown to be wrong. They sort of do this. If they find the monster isn't killing humans they usually allow it to live. They go on a case by case basis.

I don't really care what the consequences were for Mary. It's the lack of calling Sam out for lying and manipulating Dean and then Sam promoting himself to General Winchester (again he did this before he knew Dean stayed behind). From a storytelling perspective that doesn't come across as the actions of a man the show thinks is in the wrong. If Dean was even given an "I told you so" then I might agree Sam was wrong but Dean played along like a good little boy following all the Brits rules. Sam also never told Dean about the colt. Something else the show glossed over and ignored. They knew the brits were torturers. And had a see monster kill monster policy. Sam and Dean haven't been that black and white since bloodlust. I agree it made no sense for Sam to join, but he did and he lied about it. The episode just made a big point of making Dean learn a lesson about making decisions for others and then turn around and gave Sam a free pass for doing the exact same thing to Dean. Sam's words weren't "I'll ask him but give me time?" I can only imagine what inshow and fandom reaction would be if Dean did that to Sam. Sam certainly wouldn't have said "lets give it a shot." His response would be more "stop putting me at the kiddie table." They didn't get out. They witnesses sketchy behaviour in both Ladies Drink Free and the British Invasion and as of episode 18 they were still working for them. The were all kinds of clues. So I don't believe that Dabb had "Sam is wrong" in mind when he wrote the storyline.

But there was no negative consequences. Dean ended up joining too. Sam promoted himself to leader. No one called him out. For me words are meaningless without actions to back them up.

I guess I dont' see how the show was saying "Sam is wrong" when no one called him out of his actions. He joined behind Dean's back and manipulated him. Dean's response was to join up and play ball. He was reporting for duty and filing reports. When Sam gave his big leader speech they had Dean sit there and gaze adoringly. Sam said "follow me" not us, as in him and Dean. At that point he didn't know Dean was going to choose to say behind so he clearly was putting himself in charge. Then Dean verbally confirmed that "Sam had this." I just don't see the show saying that Sam screwed up by joining, if anything it sent a message that the real fault was not Sam joining but failing to take charge immediately.