AnalyzeAndCritique

I feel the writers stumbled on Felicity but they are cackling "oh the cleverness of me!" Their intentions have missed the mark consistently. Their unplanned "gifts/Easter eggs/shout outs" often times are met with more fanfare.

Oh for fuck's sake. These idiots can't call themselves writers. Even hacks wouldn't miss major details such as an entire city knowing a character came back from the dead. UGH!!!!

They had an alternative love interest for Laurel - they killed Tommy. They had a widely accepted Black Canary - they killed Sara. They've offed too many characters for anyone besides Oliver to be safe. I'm not a gambling person, but I would wager Laurel won't bite it. They've done everything they can to make her BC. They may off her down the road, but in the near future I can't imagine Oliver or Laurel will be found taking a long nap in the morgue. Everyone else is easily sacrificed to further Oliver and Laurel. Thea will be fish bait if Malcolm's goal is to take Oliver's sister in retaliation for Tommy. Felicity could still lose her head to Slade. Diggle could become the soldier lost to war. Roy might run out of weapons in his arsenal. Walter could choke on his overpriced steak. Lance could OD. The point is I don't believe the writers will save anyone. They see GA and BC and they'll do what they want with the other characters. They killed a popular BC to bring in a BC who most people didn't want. I want to believe Diggle and Felicity are safe because I love the Holy Trinity. However, anything which gets in Laurel's way to becoming BC is expendable.

It is pretty satisfying to set the goal and achieve it. I'm prepping for this years. It's actually a blessing in disguise for me that Arrow is sucking. I've written off three shows this TV season because I have no patience for their shenanigans. I've earned three extra hours a week in which to write. When you count the hours I won't be on forums, I can probably do two this year. LOL. In staying on topic. I'm sorry I made you throw up a little. Can I offer you some Listerine?

My only problem with that is they are seriously damaging a show for one character/actress. They need to cut their losses and let it go. I wrote a novel for NaNoWriMo. The feedback I got was "great, but you need to rethink *character* because he doesn't fit the story." I didn't want to because I liked him and I liked his relationship with his sister. I dug my heels in until I realized it was possible to reduce his presence and keep what worked for him. I made some alterations and in the end it was a better novel. I had to stifle my pride, but the end product was a good novel instead of a semi-decent novel. Also my speculation was probably more bitterness than logical thinking. However, I don't think the writers/EPs care that Oliver should be broken by now and one more death could send him into suicide watch. They'll just believe he can love Laurel all the much more because Felicity taught him to appreciate the opportunity to love.

Your dentist will be upset he can't afford the European vacation over Christmas. ;) Everything you all have said about the kiss is beautiful. TGFYT Thank God For YouTube!

I am pretty sure this is the wrong thread. However, since what I'm about to say is speculation mixed with bitterness and maybe a pinch of spoiler, I'm going to try it out in here. No doubt I'll get my hand slapped but there are entirely too many topics in this forum which is sucking all the organic progression of conversation out. I was trying to figure out why I would want to watch Arrow regularly, S2 was spent wondering when something/anything would happen to Sara to start Laurel's BC journey. It made S2 unbearable at times as my disgust with Laurel continued to increase and my love of Sara grew by leaps and bounds. I am not prepared to endure the same during S3. A popular opinion is Olicity will get its real start at the end of S3 and S4 will be full of Olicity. I can see that timeline pushed up and Olicity being gifted to the fans earlier this season so next season Felicity can die. Oliver goes through a portion of S4 man-paining his grief. At some point we'll lose Diggle/Roy as Oliver only has two sides and can't have three sidekicks. Laurel as BC won't be believable as a heroine in her own right because she's so far behind the curve. She'll have to be a sidekick for a few seasons at least unless they use a radioactive canary to poop on her bare shoulder and speed up her abilities. In the end Green Arrow and Black Canary will stand together on a roof with the sun setting in the sky behind them. This is all speculation on my part and my bitterness with expecting this to happen makes me despise having ever watched a minute of the show. I am not basing this on any real spoilers, but the anvils the writers/EPs have been dropping.

I have a feeling the writers may not either.

Dear happy harpy, You win this forum!

I have stopped watching shows for less even after years of watching. Sara's death gives clear indication the path the show is taking. Had Sara disappeared for a bit instead of dying, Laurel still could have started her journey and it would have left them room and time to choose between BC or another character. Lawyer was working for her for the beginning part of the episode. Her death by way of dumpster was a disrespect to the character and a large portion of the viewing audience. Arrow just became a show I don't want to watch anymore. I now know what they are doing with Laurel and I don't want to ride that train. Oliver's rinse and repeat is counterproductive. Digg remains awesome, but they shelved his storyline. Olicity is a wait and see. Fanfic and YT will give me my favorite parts of the show. I might miss the visuals of the stunts, but I will get my Team Arrow and Olicity servings elsewhere.

I almost wish the fans would refuse to watch to send a message to the EPs.

I think it is 25% Oliver's manpain and 75% Laurel's ascension to something. She wants to be her and can't be if Sara is still alive.

I have never witnessed TPTB of a show use a bazooka to shoot themselves in the foot. I hope they enjoy rewatching Arrow on DVD because I get the feeling it will be a small crowd willing to join them. I may have just earned 48 minutes a week back.

Who knows what else she said. I imagine she said more and it was edited. I don't know how it can't be considered bigoted to hold the beliefs of her grandfather against her. You just lumped her in with those you disagree with. She's on the show to dance not appease those who don't like her family. She's seventeen and whether she stays with family's beliefs for the rest of her life or runs to Hollywood on the day she turns 18, she's dancing not giving Larry King interviews. I found the dance to be fun and unique. Considering this show is practically ancient, seeing something new is refreshing. Unique and technically sound don't usually go hand-in-hand. I enjoyed Shawn Johnson during All Stars for the energy Derek infused into their dances. I have zero dance experience so I just want to enjoy the dance. The only dance I enjoyed more last night was "The Carlton."

I'd be ok if she didn't read the comics as the show is making an identity separate from the comics. She needs to stop telling people to read the comics if she hasn't. She's being hypocritical and looks ridiculous as she continues to fall back on her "but comics!" answer. I feel for Katie as what she signed up for isn't what ended up happening. HOWEVER my compassion stops there. The continuing issues with her interviews and her performance are on her. The writers share some of the responsibility in she's never been a clear direction in which to approach her character. The producers and directors need to correct her when she has the wrong mood for a scene (smiling as her sister boards a boat after being on two which sunk in order to return to being an assassin). I don't dislike Katie as a person. This week I dealt with someone at work who wasn't doing their job. I still like them as a person but as a co-worker I wanted to slap them upside the head. Their failure to do their job affected my ability to do mine. My desire to see something better from that person wasn't mean. It was a matter of needing them to make more effort and do their job properly.

Should Sara be injured or killed, I'm trying to see a story where most of the viewing audience would welcome Laurel as BC. Especially since most find the jacket seen to be so off putting. It was a damn jacket and it was the catalyst for some serious hate. How would maiming Sara so she can't be BC anymore improve upon the opinion of Laurel. I also can't imagine how horrible the scene in the hospital would be with Sara laid out in bed and Laurel grinning like a loon as Sara takes her last breath.

Yes, Oliver had lower standards when it came to sex pre-island. He was equal opportunity. No standards necessary. I don't think he was as indiscriminate post-island. He'd practically been a one woman guy. With exception of his Laurel encounter all his relationships had been on the up and up. Laurel was a brain fart. But I don't think it excuses him nor should it be a reason if the tables were turned to crucify Felicity. Oliver does dumb things and rightly he should be called on them as he calls out those who make choices he doesn't agree with. The writers didn't give Oliver motive to sex up Isabel other than she was a girl. They set the stage for him not to sleep with her with her name in the book and her desire to gut QC. A) she was familiar with Russian. Did he stay dressed to hide his Bratva tattoo? B) Isabel accused him of being a manwhore and an incompetent CEO. He refuted her digs at Felicity but then whipped it out which made his argument ring hollow. Sleeping with Isabel essentially gave her proof he would sleep with his assistant or anyone willing to spread their legs. Not a good way to prove your aren't the college dropout playing at CEO. C) the life I lead speech could have been prompted by something other than sex with Isabel. Oliver isn't willing to risk falling in love but he is willing to bed indiscriminately to scratch an itch? Sex with any woman as Oliver Queen is risky. She could have run to the tabloids. His OQ persona is just as susceptible to attack as GA it just wouldn't be physical. I doubt Isabel could be bought off like his baby mama was. Again I think it was a shitty decision by the writers. Oliver could have slept with any random person in order to slow Olicity which I think was their main goal. Using Isabel complicated the narrative. Also when Oliver found out he had slept with his father's mistress it caused me to laugh. I'm sure it wasn't the reaction they were going for when they hooked them up this episode. I did laugh though because it disgusted him where the sister-swapping doesn't.

Are the showing Ruzek farming out his tasks so he can get kicked out of intelligence and it makes room for Burgess? Since when is Ruzek incompetent?

Hit the nail on the head. This episode is an excellent example of failing to outline major plot points. A) Oliver never should have slept with Isabel. Her name was in the damn book. He never should have trusted her. Not gotten close enough to knock boots. B) Having Oliver sleep with Isabel was a plot contrivance to slow Olicity which also hurt the Oliver and Sara pairing. Within a matter of weeks he went from leading a life which prevents him from being with someone he cares about to reconnecting with someone I think we were supposed to believe he cares for. (even if I don't believe Oliver and Sara were ever meant to be long term) C) Felicity's part appeared to be her turn at jealousy even though I don't think it was all jealousy. Oliver would get his turn a bit later. D) because the writers didn't know what to do with Isabel, the presence of her vagina gave them something to do with her. It didn't serve a point. Although I might have laughed maniacally if she'd immediately compared Oliver and Robert's performance. What would the viewing audience have thought if Isabel had been Isaac and Feliciity had slept with him? Should Oliver get a pass because he is Olived Queen. You know Felicity would have been subjecting to a tar and feathering.

If they have Felicity leave TA, I think the writers will need wit sec. I will be watching just waiting for Olicity.

My biggest fear in seeing Olicity happen was the writers would muck it up. I'm already fearful of what I'm hearing about S3. The early part of the season will be a good indicator if I'm hopping off the Arrow Express or not. Although my reasons won't strictly be Olicity, but they were a fun aspect I enjoyed. If the writers make them a typical CW couple I will be gone faster than Barry.

I'm halfway through the show and it feels like a cartoon. I normally don't judge shows by physical appearances, but nothing about this premiere told me I should take it seriously. I know it is based on comic books, but I don't think it is supposed to be as laughingly hysterical as it is. Ward is a freaking caricature. He's hot, but a joke. Skye is trying too hard to imitate May and it is a joke. Talbot... no words. FitzSimmons broke my heart. The rest couldn't hold my attention. The end.

I don't know what it is about this TV season, but I'm finding more of my time freed up; Chicago Fire just came back and lost me. I am not sure I'm sticking with Chicago PD. I'd given up on most of the procedurals a few years ago. I might check out Gotham, but I'm going in with my finger hovering on the eject button. Same with Agents of SHIELD. I almost want to know the resolution, but I have no qualms about dropping it. The few new pilots I've watched haven't hooked me. They were pleasant enough, but if I miss episode 2 I more than likely won't be upset.

Thank you, Chicago Fire, for freeing up an hour of my time a week.

Bolded because that was said perfectly. The majority of the issue I have with Laurel is she doesn't take responsibility for anything. Everything happens to her and nothing is a result of her decisions, actions, or lack of action. This is one of my biggest pet peeves in real life let alone on TV. At some point everyone has to grow up and take responsibility for some of their actions. I prefer to deal with people who take responsibility for a majority of their actions. Because she never pays a price nor takes responsibility, I don't find I can relate to her. She's teflon and typically only criminals are teflon until eventually everything catches up with them. Maybe this will happen to Laurel, but I don't see it happening. She needs to be liked by everyone so hopefully the audience will accept her too which is at the feet of the writers. It irks me when people want to compare trials and tribulations. Each of us go through different circumstances which shape us. However, Laurel thinking even a portion of her life lines up with the five years of hell Sara and Oliver endured is ridiculous. They paid the price for their bad decisions and came back to anger and hate. Laurel hating Oliver is understandable. Laurel hating Sara is ridiculous. Laurel taking a while to forgive Oliver is understandable. Laurel throwing things at Sara is bitchy. Laurel has moments which are understandable. However, in the long run they don't hold up. Be angry at Oliver, but I think her first reaction to seeing Sara should have been joy/happiness/shock/disbelief. Instead she acts like she'd prefer Sara fall off the edge of the Earth. The problem of Laurel is a trifecta - writing, acting, and translation. She's written poorly. She's not portrayed by an actress who can show the audience any emotion but superiority. She's not being translated by the audience in the manner in which the writers are trying to communicate her due to the producing. Someone needs to put a stop to the insanity.