AnalyzeAndCritique

Burgess is PD's Gabby (Fire). I can't with most of what they do with either character. Burgess gets shot and it earns her a promotion? Dumb. If it were true a gunshot wound would get you a promotion, she would have shot herself a lot earlier. Burgess and Dawson stink of desperation. Neither have motivation. They want what they want when they want it and screw everyone when they change their minds. I stopped watching Fire a while ago. PD is on its way to oblivion. I'm just waiting to see if they'll demote Burgess when Erin comes back.

Might be why Chicago Fire is failing to keep its viewers. Kinney and Spencer hotness can't overcome the Gabby deficiency.

Or at least be aware of what your audience supports as epic so your opinion still holds weight. At this point it is insincere cheerleading imo. Arrow is not in the realm of epic. Unless you count their incredible slide from glory. That I might call epic.

i wonder how much of the lack of affection for Tommy was Cassidy's biding time until she was part of the OTP. I cant' imagine Colin not bringing the fun and those around him being swallowed up in it.

I used Google translate to decipher what he is talking about. It kicked back "guaranteed to be a disappointing snooze fest the majority of the fans don't want to see." For the love of bows and arrows, if the show wasn't called Arrow I'd wonder if Amell pissed someone off. The best ever done and incredibly compelling was all done while he was in a different country. Sucks to be him. Why don't they tell us how they really feel about the Arrow.

I agree. It really shouldn't be that damn hard either to write for them. They were practically a couple just without the official titles and the tonsil hockey. You add the titles and the tonsil hockey and voila you have a couple. How they can't write that is beyond me. Take S2 for example. If Olicity was a thing you end the night with a "your place or mine? cooking or take out?" It acknowledges the relationship while not making a big deal of it. Neither person has to be OOC for it to work. Anything to smile about would give this show a boost which it desperately needs.

If the writers had any sense of striking while the iron is hot, they would have brought S3 in with Oliver and Felicity doing their flirty-flirt. Over the first half of the season they attempt to date while being thwarted with Arrow business. It almost becomes comical. Their dates are interrupted before they can begin and halfway through. They can't really find time together, but they are together. Felicity is dropping lines about third date rules and trying to add the fractions of their dates up. They steal kisses and shoulder touches. it would have lightened up the show and made some aspects of it enjoyable. Digg and Roy look on and drop one liners. It doesn't change the fundamental aspects of Team Arrow. It adds to the already strong foundation. At least then the first ten episodes would have something to smile about. Why a show chooses to steal the joy is beyond me. Most people watch TV to give them an escape. I doubt happy people sit at home thinking "let me watch a show which will cause me to need anti-depressants." You don't have to stall Olicity. You need to accept it, acknowledge it, and then take it off the front burner. After all Arrow is an action-adventure show not a gallows-humor romance.

I'm not a comic book reader either. I know Ra's from Batman. I knew enough to know he wasn't to be messed with and that I was hoping they wouldn't ever find the fountain of youth or Lazarus Pits. As a non-comic book reader who enjoys comic books through TV and movies, I would argue I'd like the source material to not be the bible the writers don't stray from. I find comic storytelling to be like soap operas. You can miss a whole bunch and pick right back up because there has been no progress. I've also been told the comics retcon stuff a lot. The problem is Arrow is a finite medium. There is a beginning, middle, and end. Arrow lucks out because it is on a network where mediocrity is the acceptable quality. It'll hold steady and the writers can dick around all they want. As long as Oliver removes his shirts and they can contrive reasons for it, the female audience sticks around. As long as there are some bad ass fight sequences, the male audience stays. They bought some extra insurance with a few other characters and the comic loyalty from some viewers. It doesn't matter if the audience is only watching 1/3 of the show. They get the rating to stay steady and the hard on the writers have for "their show" finds its pleasure. While killing Oliver has some potential for storytelling, I doubt they've contemplated the consequence of their actions. Isobel is a great example. They plugged her into a bunch of different scenarios and told us "wait and see." Ultimately she was flat as a pancake. Summer Glau and her hair were wasted. Nothing had a payoff - her attempt to take over QC, her time in the sheets with Oliver, and her hatred of Felicity. Slade? Malcolm? Sara? Ra's? They all have potential and it has all fallen flat. I'm not sure why Oliver's death won't be the same. They've killed him to what end? Time off for Amell? To launch the Black Canary? To have Felicity realize the depth of her feelings? So Digg can get more screen time? To let Roy out of Oliver's shadow? To allow Thea to realize her father is a monster? To allow Ray to be the fun-loving, handsome hero the child known as Barry Allen isn't. Hell even Laurel had potential. However they have pretty much done anything but tap the potential. Their beloved Laurel Lance is mostly hated because of the direction they've taken her character. They hit their stride with her and then run her off a bridge. This viewer doesn't want to see Laurel don a costume. There is no scenario in which I am willing to accept her. Laurel's consistency has been her selfishness. She isn't hero material. I don't buy her misguided attempts to revenge her sister's death. She happily sent her sister off to be an assassin. She hasn't earned the right to grieve or revenge. She has earned the right to STFU. Raylicity shouldn't be a word. He isn't a viable option for Felicity. They've missed the mark with him at each turn. So he's going to get a suit soon. Big freaking woo.Ray is the eccentric billionaire with a lack of social skills and boundaries. He's handsome from a distance, but he isn't anything to write home about. He and Oliver are like a negative. Ray is the white and Oliver is the black. However, I don't think Ray has ever and will ever be a choice. Ray is only around to slow the Olicity train and to get a suit of his own. His very presence is an issue of plot contrivance. Without the stigma of love interest for Felicity hanging over his head, I might have given Ray more than a passing glance. However his actions aren't romantic. His eccentricity isn't adorable. He's just there. Thea and Malcolm and their story seem to have been dropped like a hot potato. I guess I'm missing the great interactions. I was waiting to see something which would convince me Thea could sit with a man who killed 500 plus people. He's the reason her mother was taken from her. Sure Slade killed Moira but Thea lost Moira and Oliver the night of the Undertaking. I can't with the Quentin BS. They could have contrived a decent reason why he couldn't be told. The death of Sara Lance brings about a question as some HVT died the same night she was seen in town. Those who know she has a shady past need to protect her. Therefore Laurel can't tell Quentin because Sara's death would implicate her in the assassination of *fill in the blank*. At least we wouldn't be dealing with Quentin will be the last to know because his ticker might stop ticking. Stupid reason much? It makes me hate the characters who know because Quentin deserves the truth. Each passing minute he doesn't know is fueling my hatred. Whoever finally tells him deserves an exploding glass thrown at them. The problem with killing Oliver is it will change him. I doubt you come back from a violent death and some odd source of resurrection without being fundamentally changed. However, we've already seen season 1 and 2. Let's not do it again shall we? (See my note on repetitiveness and soap operas above.) I don't think the writers are creative enough to not retread. Which means Oliver has tasted death and he will probably be even more determined to be a lone vigilante. Especially if he comes back and those he loves are devastated.

Here is a superficial question. Besides Felicity's thoughts about herself, who views her as less attractive than the other women on the show our Oliver's other girlfriends. I know they play her to the brainy stereotype, but (as a straight girl) I find her top of the list attractive on the show. She has quirks but they make her an individual instead of another set of boobs. She isn't over the top like Garcia on criminal minds.

Edited to move to proper thread

I wouldn't wish ill on anyone but clearly they have no comprehension of why their show is liked and need an epiphany. Tanking ratings should be a wake up they can't ignore.

I haven't read through all of the posts because I came to a screeching halt when the topic of stalking came up. It isn't stalking just because someone feels threatened nor does Ray have to be sitting outside her apartment while she sleeps. Stalking doesn't always present physical danger. I was stalked by a guy who I thought was a friend. We hung out in groups and volunteered together. I never felt I was in danger because all he did was stick close to me in social settings. Fast forward three months and I am speeding down a highway to get away from him while he is attempting to follow me home. Ray 's behavior is not acceptable. Eccentricity doesn't give you a free pass to hack in order to show up where someone is. Even if Ray has no romantic intentions towards Felicity, his behavior is wrong. I wouldn't allow anyone - boss, friend, lover, cashier, cab driver, co-worker, etc - to behave as Ray is. It isn't romantic, endearing, eccentric, or cute. He is crossing lines and I wouldn't accept it if Oliver was doing it either. ETA. Sexual harassment doesn't have to make the harassed uncomfortable. It only has to make someone witnessing it uncomfortable. I would say the same thought applies here.

Oh I agree. However, if the writers want to make Raylicity work someone might need to shut it down. I'm holding out hope they let the Raylicity boat sail on a three hour tour with a skipper and a Maryanne and a doofus named Gilligan. I just hope the moment is the Olicity of the crossover and not the Olicity of S3E2-7.

So one thing which stands out to me when these two teams are in vicinity of each other. Team Arrow looks mature and professional. Team Flash looks like kids. I like the two teams but together the differences are so harsh. Team Flash probably would have been better with Teen Arrow just because the age disparity wouldn't be so obvious. Although Teen Arrow doesn't exist anymore. Should I see myself to the bitter thread?

I wouldn't completely hate it if they both laid their cards out on the table. UNLESS Felicity is all "if you leave now there will never be an us." My sincerest Christmas wish is for Oliver to grow a pair. He is facing his mortality. He can't do what he has to do unless he tells Felicity the truth. She begs him not to go, but he has to do what is right which she has always supported him in even if at times she disagrees with his methods. If Oliver lays it on the line and Felicity reciprocates, I might sit through the Laurel trilogy because I'd have hope when Oliver returned he'd give Felicity a welcome home any girl wants. Even though she should be welcoming him home. He's got some major wooing to do that shirtless salmon ladder for hours on end won't be adequate - although appreciated. Someone just grow a pair though!

I'm hoping he will say something like "I love you and I know the best thing for you would be if I didn't. I love you and I won't pretend I don't anymore." Because the guys like us thing is really old and tired. Lay it on the line Oliver. If Felicity isn't being written OOC she will probably sat "wasn't so hard to say was it?" And then tell him she loves him too. Romantic angst be done. Bring on villainy angst.

Had this crazy thought and while still slightly cliched I would accept it more easily than Oliver giving Felicity his blessing to date Ray. What if the 9 scene is because Oliver knows something is going to go down with the LOA. So thinking his time is about to expire, he says NOT IMPLIES "I love you and blah blah blah." The 9 scene is Felicity reciprocating. The reason it isn't a 10 is because of no sex according to a tweet so maybe they fall asleep on her couch and in the morning the LOA arrives to be dealt with. Still slightly cliched but since this shows lives on cliche I would take it over Oliver permitting Felicity to date Ray. I doubt we are going to avoid cliche and it has been done before, but I can't see them believing the audience wouldn't revolt if Oliver is in mortal danger and Felicity is sexing up her new boss. I might be willing to pay good money if when Oliver returns, Felicity is at work and she runs to embrace him while Ray stands in her office. Because I can be petty like that.

I kind of went off in the spoiler discussion thread. My apologies for the cussing. I wasn't going to say anything more, but I had a few more thoughts. They are bitter about relationships so I'm dropping them in here. Oliver Queen will never deserve Felicity Smoak unless he is willing to invest whatever time he has left with her. It doesn't have to be every minute of every day. It can be the time he has between catching villains and mending fences with his sister. Every argument Oliver has for not being with Felicity is negated by his actions. She's a distraction - he is still distracted although this time it isn't with the memories of the softness of her lips. His life is dangerous - jackass she's been a part of your life for 2+ years. She's been in danger without the benefit of holding your hand or warming your bed. He's probably going to die soon - all our clocks are ticking down. Felicity could have a brain aneurysm tomorrow. Then how would you feel about not giving it a shot with her you spineless douche. Ahem. From a story standpoint putting these two crazy kids together doesn't mean Arrow loses its action-adventure tag and moves into the drama-romance department. Heck putting these two in a relationship might decrease the soap opera portion of the show which is chewing up time. A payoff for not having the five months of O-l-i-c-i-t-y becoming Olicity would have been a good first date, subsequent relationship, and the resulting flirty-flirt and sexy times between the sheets. Instead the not-quite-relationship is chewing up time, headlines, polls, and threads. Inadvertently the show has become a soap opera. In life love is about deciding the person you are attracted to is more important than all the things you may have to give up or they are worth trying to balance/compromise. Felicity never asked Oliver to give up being Arrow. She's supports him. It isn't a balance or a compromise it is a partnership. Even as a friend she's shown concern for him. The concern doesn't skyrocket just because they kiss and hold hands now. Felicity has supported him rich and poor, in sickness and in health, and in intelligent decision-making and not so intelligent decision-making. There will never come a time when keeping a couple apart for the foreseeable future is a good decision by the writers of books, movies, or TV shows. Giving them a short shelf life away from each other can make for a good story. Attempting to flip two magnets which are pulling towards each other around so they fight against each other is a bad move. Eventually your audience will distance themselves from you. I know many aren't watching Arrow for Olicity. i wasn't either at first. The most important part of the show for me was Team Arrow. Oliver, Diggle, and Felicity made the show for me. I knew eventually we'd welcome others into the Arrow Cave. I accepted it. Heck I knew love interests would pop up. I like that Diggle has Lyla. I was hoping for Oliver and Felicity to get it together because on Oliver's show Felicity is good for him. I also thought they wouldn't screw with the dynamics. Instead because the writers suck we have a fractured Team Arrow and a show which is finding itself swirling the flush faster than most any other I've ever watched. For that I am extremely bitter. If the writers approached Olicity as adults in the real world instead of as TV writers, the show would improve by leaps and bounds. Real life can give us some of our greatest lessons both in what to do and what not to do.

Without all the pointless drama they are a fun couple. Sometimes being an old married couple isn't a bad thing. My parents have friends who are older and married and dangit if they aren't a hoot to be around. I could easily place them in that gif and it wouldn't be weird. Why? Because they care for each other, aren't afraid to call each other on the other's shit, and genuinely enjoy being around each other.

Is she wearing a dress or a shirt because I really like the upper portion. Also this gif is made of win. I haven't seen the episode, but it is calling me witness on the big screen.

Yeah, that sounds like it hit the floor like a giant anvil. Thank you!

Do you mind telling me what he said? I'm going to have to brace myself. Because while the Flash version of the crossover sounds fun, I am still not sure I want to invest any more time. I am annoyed with all the plots writers use to keep TV couples apart. I need to return to literature because at least I know there is an ending. Even if I don't agree with the direction of a story it has to come to an end. TPTB of TV shows don't have an expiration date therefore they keep adding water to the stew to make it last.

I haven't seen Flash but if it goes down like that ^ something will go through my TV or computer since I watch on Hulu Plus. I'd much rather an honest "I love you, but this isn't what you deserve. I want you to be happy and not waiting for the day I can't come home to you" from Oliver. Felicity then better respond with something like "I love you and I want every day I can have with you even if they are limited." Because for fuck's sake there are wayward buses out there which could hit you at any time. No fucking relationship is guaranteed thirty or more years. You take the fucking time you have and you make it count. There are millions of real life careers which are hazardous yet people still choose love. You have to fucking choose it or you don't deserve it. Sorry as you can tell I am annoyed. Writers who fear this supposed "moonlighting curse" and who believe true love is only true love if the couple never achieves happiness are hacks. You want to write a compelling and engaging story? You let your characters grow organically and don't throw obstacles at them which are redundant, recycled, and non-creative. Ray doesn't need to be Felicity's love interest or "other choice." Ray can be a guy who shows interest in Felicity and brings Oliver and Felicity to their moment of truth. This isn't directed at anyone in particular. Just an overall disgust with every couple on TV right now.

AMEN! I get this is TV but I can't stand this shit in real life. It doesn't make for good TV any more than it strengthens relationship IRL. It is a painful and awkward dance. Figure it out, Oliver, before I would rather see Felicity with a new server than you. Oliver the character needs Felicity. This season he is barely tolerable. Felicity and Digg make him tolerable and borderline enjoyable. As this is his show I wish Felicity for him. If this was her show, I wouldn't wish him on her.

Do any of them have daughters, wives, mothers, sisters? Would they find this behavior acceptable if they were told stories about guys pulling this shit on someone they loved? If it doesn't make for a good story IRL it isn't entertainment.