AnalyzeAndCritique

It seemed to me like EBR was having a Felicity moment. She meant something but the way she said it came out wrong. She realized she'd made a mistake and went to fix it only to dig herself in deeper. I saw it almost as she was playing off the non-shippers demand to make her a lesbian. She meant nothing against GG or SA. EBR seems to be one of the more aware of what the fandom is talking about. She always seems to go out of her way to say nice things about everyone.

Personally I hope Amell has the firm knowledge about Oliver never returning to the Lance sisters. Even if Felicity isn't endgame, I'm more willing to watch another 1/4 or 1/2 a season if I know there won't be a will-they-won't-they with Oliver and any Lance.

I haven't watched BTVS in a long time. I remember liking it. I do remember the crew had lives outside of the Scooby Gang. I also remember their Scooby Gang growing all the time. I will take your word for it the characters were better developed. I remember a lot of HS BS which was expected as they were in HS. Even in HS I had a low tolerance for it. I am not saying Felicity doesn't deserve some back story. To sum it up (I still have no idea what thread posts belong in) and not belabor the point. I don't think we have to concentrate on Felicity's back story. There is a huge difference between having one and giving it all to us. We don't have Oliver's complete back story. We learn as necessary. Consider Arrow as a book, Oliver meets Felicity and we don't spend three chapters reading about her life before Oliver. We learn about her as Oliver does. Arrow is very much first person given the emphasis on Oliver. It is Oliver's story so I would expect any other character's story to fall in line. Buffy was more a group collaboration. The issue is really with the writing and the lack of consistency across the board. Also they rely on recycled tropes. Half the posts in this thread alone have more potential and are more creative than what we get.

As this is Oliver's show Felicity's moments moving forward concern Oliver until they no longer are partners. What happens when a character story exists outside of Oliver? Complaints of Lance family drama taking up too much time. What I'm saying is that Felicity's back story doesn't need a spotlight. Her back story will be filled in as needed. Everyone loves Felicity and she is an enigma. However I disagree she lives in a vacuum. I hear she isn't well-developed. She is far more consistent than most of the characters. She had one OOC episode which clearly was a contrivance with the Clock King. Every other character exists with multiple OOC. What do we know about Felicity? She is intelligent, went to MIT, grew up in Vegas, knows computers better than people, likes color in her wardrobe, has no filter, believes in the good in people, is a human lie detector, is willing to commit crimes for the good of Starling City, isn't afraid to counter Oliver when she disagrees, supports her friends, is willing to risk everything rather than lie to someone. Sometimes it isn't a back story which develops a character but the character's actions. Maybe at the right moment we will find out why she isn't afraid to stand up to Oliver or how she got so good at detecting lies. I don't see the need for an episode which can become overlooked like all the Lance family drama episodes just for the sake of having one. My preference would be a scene with Digg or Oliver in which she connects with them. Maybe a scene about growing up without a father. Far more can be accomplished in a single scene than an entire episode if the episode is easy to forget or becomes a symbol (exploding wine glass) than actual character development.

This probably belongs in about five different topics. I do miss the days of TWOP when everything was in one post. So I offer my apologies now. I don't want Felicity to get a back story. This is for two different reasons. A) Oliver met Felicity after his time on the island. Which means we don't need three episodes dedicated to her life before him. The journey is Oliver's which means we only need to see Felicity's history as it pertains to her life with Oliver in it. No one meets a new friend and sits down and gives their whole life story. The idea is we learn about Felicity as Oliver does. If her history is pertinent to the current story line then I'd expect it to be organically worked in. Example: her dilemma in telling Oliver about Malcolm being Thea's father. It was a line but one line explained why Felicity is so loyal - she has abandonment issues. I personally don't want an hour dedicated to scratching off the scabs of Felicity's emotional scars over her father's leaving. The Russian episode served two purposes. Digg's back story was also a part of the current story line. Lyla and Waller have an ongoing presence, but also a history with Oliver. The Russian episode also served as a speed bump to the Olicity pairing. The Digg portion of the Russian episode was good. It furthered the story. His history was also part of the present which meant it had a place. It wasn't a very special Digg episode for the sake of having one. It continued the story and was a good set-up for later on in the season. (I'm ignoring the Russian hookup because I believe this is a good example of "we need a speed bump on the road to Olicity" and pulling ish out of thin air to create a speed bump. The speed bump was made of foam so it was a poorly constructed speed bump and everyone reacted with a WTF is it there versus actually slowing down.) B) Let's talk about the writer's ability to create good back story. They don't have it. These are the same "writers" who believe an epic love affair began with Oliver cheating with Laurel's sister. It wasn't that he cheated once; he was a serial cheater. Who then "killed" Sara by his cheating ways. Then he comes back from the dead to sleep with Laurel when her bed was still warm from Tommy. I do believe S2 started with Oliver very much in the head space of attempting to pick up with Laurel. She shut it down. Sara returns and Oliver hardly wastes any time in getting back in bed with her. Still Laurel is the one who knows him better than anyone. I don't want the writers to ruin Felicity. Give them too much time to think about a back story for Felicity and no doubt they'll weaken what is one of the better characters on a show. If the writers were trying to hit tennis balls with arrows, there would be a whole lot of bouncing tennis balls. They don't hit 9 out of 10; they are averaging 2/3 out of 10. When they don't create the WTFery of complex back story, they are capable of 5/6 out of 10. Concerning the Ray spoilers. Has it been confirmed he is an actual love interest of Felicity? I guess what I'm asking is are they going to attempt a relationship or is he going to be interested and Felicity finds she can't have a relationship outside of Oliver? I almost see Team Arrow being like co-stars on a movie shoot. You don't have time to just go out and meet people or date someone you already know. I think it is why co-stars fall in love all the time. Digg has Lyla but she is in on the secret. She "knows" where her man is. Digg and Carly didn't work. Unless Felicity can come up with really great excuses, she won't work with anyone who doesn't know the secret either. Barry could have worked except he has his own show. Lance would be a viable option because she knows about his involvement, but NO! Unless Felicity is going to be absent from the Team Arrow, I don't see how a relationship will work for her. I am also out if we are going to begin S3 with Oliver wanting a relationship with Felicity and then chickening out. I'm assuming this gives Felicity opportunity to date someone else (which is destined to fail) and Oliver will enjoy the company of other ladies while wanting more with Felicity. By the end of S3 I can see them trying to pick it back up and something catastrophic changes things between them again. I don't know why writers believe keeping a couple apart is good TV. IRL tragedy causes people to realize who they want in their life and appreciate any and all time they have together. After a tragedy you hear all the time about people who take the jump they were scared to because they realized they might not have tomorrow to find their courage. I am torn on this show. A part of me hates it, but like a train wreck I can't look away. There is just enough to keep me watching, but I think it is moments the writers are expecting. They talk up these "huge" episodes and these "life-changing" moments and those suck. It is a minute thirty within a forty-two minute show which keeps me hooked. Although it could be the really well-written fanfic keeping my interest. Dang fandoms with talented writers.

I had no intention of venturing over here from TWOP. However, I did to see what the temperature for season 3 is and then I read through this thread. I registered to throw my two cents in. Disclaimer - these are all my thoughts and opinions. I speak for no one else. In the world of Arrow, Felicity is akin to the lesser of evils. It's like voting for President. Sometimes you don't always get to pick the person you want for the job, but when you have to choose you pick the one you can live with. In the world of Arrow, I adore Felicity. She brought life to an otherwise dull show already with a DNR on life support. Without her presence in the Arrow Cave and QC, I don't see Arrow being entertaining. I don't believe Oliver is good for her all the time, but I do think most of the time he'd be the right man for her. I don't think she's the wrong match for him just because her last name isn't Lance. If I have to choose between Sara, Laurel, and Felicity; I'm going Smoak every time. The sister-swapping is disgusting. The most adult moment on Arrow was when Sara was staying at the Queen mansion and she and Oliver briefly spoke about Laurel. I saw two adults addressing the past and accepting the history for what it was. I did a fist pump when I thought we were avoiding Oliver screwing another Lance in less than a year. Sadly I believe the writers shot that to hell simply to put a speed bump in between Oliver and Felicity. Oliver and Sara hooking up did nothing to further the narrative between Oliver and Sara or Oliver and Laurel. As a matter of fact you'd have to argue emphatically for me to believe it didn't harm future story lines for all three. If they were hoping it would show growth for either Lance sister, I can't imagine how dysfunctional their real life relationships are. Time of Death seems to be an OOC set-up for the Oliver and Felicity fake out. The entire episode was a WTF moment. I think the writers sampled Felicity's painkillers. Regardless there is serious on screen chemistry between Oliver and Felicity. The WTFery of the Russian indecent proposal was also I believe to further the fake out. In both these cases they used an anvil when a simple mallet would have sufficed. The beauty of Oliver and Felicity is they don't need over-the-top or epic moments. Oliver and Felicity work for me because Felicity is everything Laurel wishes to be through her dialogue. I'm going off a spotty memory here because I haven't seen more than a couple of episodes twice. Felicity is the one who knows Oliver. She knows his secrets. She knows the dark parts of him. She also knows his potential. As part of the team she's his conscious, cheerleader, confidante, and friend. Diggle is more comrade-in-arms, but the three of them are a great team. They each bring something to the table. Laurel creates discord in the Cave. I don't see Laurel fitting in the Arrow Cave easily unless they do a 180 with her character. I think in order to do that she needs a real crucible. Nothing she has been through has shown any growth. As a viewer I have to remember Felicity is knowledgeable about Oliver's past, but she hasn't lived it. I agree pre-island Oliver isn't worthy of Felicity, I believe (with the exception of some major WTF moments) post-island Oliver is a man worthy of Felicity's love. He'll never be the perfect man for her. Life isn't about waiting though until we are worthy of love. Love is about accepting the other person as they are. Which is something Oliver and Laurel aren't capable of doing. I don't see why Felicity can't date Oliver now. I think she's ready. She's already shown she is committed, loyal, cares for him, and accepts him. Nothing says they have to get married in season 3. However, watching Digg and Roy walk in the Cave while Oliver's tongue is down Felicity's throat could be fun. In the hands of capable writers, Oliver and Felicity slipping into a relationship could be handled well. I don't see it needing to be awkward. Actually I can see some cute Olicity moments. Oliver leaning in for a kiss in the Cave and Felicity stammering because she has no desire to make Roy and Digg uncomfortable. It doesn't all need to be relationship angst. I don't see Felicity backing down from disagreeing with Oliver just because she's getting some Queen loving on a king bed. There is still opportunity for growth without it being all about Oliver's dick. I personally would like to see Arrow move away from the Magic Wand of Oliver. This show's strengths (as they are) is the villain of the week. Hook Oliver and Felicity up. Let it be them holding hands as they leave at the end of the night. Have Roy knock on Felicity's door and hoping he's not interrupting anything. Oliver and Felicity can be the anti-drama Arrow was becoming with the Lance sisters. If the writers are going Oliver and Felicity, I'd rather they do it sooner rather than later. It'll be harder to believe Oliver is really committed if he friend zones her for three plus years. I also don't see why in the last episode of the final season, Felicity would want him if he's been sister-swapping again. If the writers are committed to Oliver and Laurel, I hope they show us early on. I'm not hanging around for that mess. It is a MESS. You can't fix what is shattered. It isn't cracked it is billions of pieces. I'm not believing anything these writers are telling me about them being a OTP when everything I am seeing is WTFery. I also don't want to see multiple new women brought on for Oliver. I know Oliver Queen is supposed to be a playboy billionaire who doesn't go four hours without getting between a woman's legs. I also see on Arrow he isn't the Oliver of the comics. I'm glad. Quite honestly I'd have a hard time cheering for him. ETA: I can't remember which thread I read it in. I'm throwing this in here though. Apparently Cassidy has said she can't conjure up chemistry with Amell because he's married? I get sex scenes being uncomfortable, but she freakin' rode Chris Gorham who is married and a father of multiple children (5?) for Harper's Island. I think the only reason they cut the scene was it was too much for network TV. It wasn't her first sex scene with him either. The only thing I can come up with is Amell's wife is jealous and is on set daily to make sure her man stays faithful or Amell and Cassidy don't get along. If you can't create chemistry with a man who looks like Amell you are definitely not cut out to be an actress.