MsPH

Eh, I don't think Vanessa got used by Tres or anything. She said several times that sex is very important to her in a relationship, so I'm sure she wanted to test drive him as much as he may have wanted to test drive her. I feel like I must defend Tres a bit here. I don't think he could've done much, except stay with Vanessa forever, to avoid all the hate he is getting. If he had known for certain by the end of the experiment that he wasn't gonna fall for Vanessa and called it quits, people would be saying pretty much the same thing they are now, that he was never gonna stay married to her and just wanted to hit it and quit it and that he should've tried at least. Well he did try for 2 months, yet that's wrong as well, because people can say without having even been there that he was just biding his time. How can you say that with any sort of certainty? No, Vanessa didn't say they stopped having sex completely during the experiment, she alluded that there were issues on that front already back then. I'm sure they had sex after that as well though, since why would they stay together 2 months if it was totally platonic? Vanessa can't be that desperate. In the end he just didn't fall for her and pulled away. It is what it is, you can't force love. They didn't even seem like a good match with their different lifestyles and styles of communication. Just because they found each other hot doesn't mean they're meant to be together. I feel bad for Vanessa, because I think she did fall for him, but that's life. People start dating and break up all the time and it's not necessarily anyone's fault. I give them both props for seeing where things went after the cameras were gone, because that's what this show is about, trying to make a marriage work. Maybe he should've tried harder, but then again, a relationship shouldn't feel like pulling teeth. If it does, then it's probably not right for you. Love is always a risk, so better to see things through than live with what if's. Now if he is DM'ing people to defend himself then that's idiotic and I hope he stops. I must say, I don't think Vanessa was as classy as people here are giving her credit for, since she did make it pretty clear that she thinks it's all Tres's fault. She even made sure to let us know that his romantic gestures weren't romantic enough, since he didn't go to a flower shop to get her flowers, he just got them from some guy at work. I'm not gonna make any snap judgements based on one side of the story, but seems like plenty of people are and that's probably pushing Tres over the edge. I really hope he can keep it civil, because Sam already ruined any civility there was between her and Neil. I just want one couple to swallow their bitterness!

Me too! Her mom was a bit strange, but sweet, and her dad was also very nice to Ben, even told him the brothers can hook him up with a job if he wants to move to Dallas. The brothers were a bit OTT perhaps, but I could see why they weren't impressed by Ben. They weren't even that bad if you take out the dramatic music.

Well as far as I can tell, JoJo doesn't have a drinking problem. She also has a college degree, and a she seems aware of the Bachelor rules, since she asked Ben if he's allowed to say ILY. On top of that she has a brother who's been the lead of a similar show, so hopefully he can give her some sound advice. Seems to me like she's one of the most prepared leads they've had. Hopefully she can keep it together at least somewhat under pressure. Who knows, but I'm sure she'll do a better job than Caila. For the record, I don't think Caila was ever a real option, just a red herring. JoJo's part of the F2, so they had to distract people somehow. Mike Fleiss has been toying with the fans on Twitter, dropping hints that it's Caila just to get them riled up. I knew it would end in a "Gotcha!".

LOL, so true. He's already so young and then he has his parents guiding him every step of the way. How many times have we seen them already, 3? 4? I just fear his mom is a bit overinvolved. I also think she would've been wise to straddle the fence, because someone's bound to feel bad about that answer. I doubt it's based on looks or job though. Jojo is just more open and outgoing than Lauren, so she probably leaves a better first impression.

Ben was shown crying real tears and saying "I can't do this right now" after Amanda was gone.

That's how I remember it as well. I have a feeling that by the time Jubilee said whatever it was she said, Amber and Jami already didn't like her, maybe because she got a 1-on-1 while Ben was totally ignoring them. So they interpreted anything she said in the worst possible way. I mean it's well-documented by now, after three different shows, that Amber is a whiny a bitch who is always complaining about something, especially the people who are doing better than her. So they heard what they wanted to hear to justify their dislike of Jubilee. If they were really offended by it, then they could've told her then, instead of whipping it out at the WTA and making her look like some racist. It was a crappy thing to do IMO. She apologised anyway, so it's a non-issue as far as I'm concerned. She was probably joking in the first place knowing her sense of humour. She called Ben a "white boy" and he thought it was funny.

I read some interview with her and it wasn't quite as straightforward. Her sister was also at the orphanage and her adoptive father wanted to adopt them both, but the sister had some incurable disease and couldn't be adopted, so she was left behind. Apparently Jubilee wanted to find her later, but she was told her sister was most likely dead. That's where a lot of her guilt comes from. That said, I'm not a fan of her self-pity either and I don't know if she could handle being the lead. I'd still rather watch her than Caila though, since she seems to have a personality at least. Caila's still trying to find hers and I don't think it's a good basis for forming a genuine love connection, let alone several at the same time.

Cocktail waitress: https://www.instagram.com/p/BBtPXxNShsu/?taken-by=haley_marqueelv Classy.

I don't think they invite first and second RC eliminees unless they're really memorable for some reason. Tiara was there because they wanted a chicken there. Not sure why Izzy was there though, since I don't think she made it past the first night either. This episode was such a waste of time. None of the women were any kind of true villains, so going on about some throwaway comments from months ago just made everyone look bad. Maybe Jami and Amber had a reason to be offended by some things Jubilee said, but I believe her when she says it wasn't her intention to offend. IMO what separates an asshole from a normal flawed human is the intent behind the actions, so I can't really see the big issue here. She apologised, so whatever, get over it. Same with Olivia and all those whiny bitches. Yeah, she said some stupid stuff and maybe stepped on someone's toes by (OMG!) grabbing Ben first, but so what? She didn't even make it further than any of the whiners, so how did her words and actions affect their lives? Does Amanda think men will take Olivia's advice and run away from her or what? She already apologised for the Teen Mom comment right after she made it, so I don't see why that needed to be rehashed. You'd think she had shaved their heads while they were asleep or something with the way they were hating on her. I wanted to slap those smirks off their faces. Emily definitely should've apologised to Olivia for all the horrible things she said, not the other way around. They were only trying to justify their own awful behaviour by taking Olivia to task over meaningless nonsense. It annoys me that no one called them out on it. Leah was the worst villain, since her actions actually had some effect on someone else's relationship, even if it was temporary, so she should've gotten most of the hate. And she wouldn't even admit to lying even though we all saw it on TV! I love how Ben shut her up, because what she said was utterly ridiculous. Caila was playing up her heartbreak way too much. She was so somber and only mentioned the future once by saying that she wants someone to look at her like Ben looks at the other two, some day. Isn't she supposed to act sincere, yet totally ready to move on and find her one true love in the next two months? Fail. It's like whatever little she had going for her was totally missing. I really hope she hasn't signed a contract yet. The tongue bath Ben received was kind of sickening. I'm happy Jubilee called him out on putting all the blame on her. Once again we saw how Ben reacts when someone hits too close to home. He got pretty defensive. I don't think Ben likes admitting he was wrong, ever. The finale looks like a mess. Ben needs to stop throwing ILY's around like they're going out of style. Poor women. I hope his mom knocks some sense into him.

To be honest, I don't think most men are looking for a woman with a chiseled jaw. The modelling industry likes chiseled features on women because they photograph well, but those are actually masculine traits. Men tend to be attracted to feminine looks. Lauren's face is super feminine with the small jaw and full rosy cheeks. JoJo on the other hand has a pretty prominent forward jaw (witch's chin), which is her biggest beauty flaw IMO.

I wouldn't pay any attention to what they say about the timeline on the show. A week isn't a week and a day isn't a day. They also change the order of the hometown dates and fantasy dates all the time and have the lead do voice-overs afterwards that go together with the shuffling. It's been sleuthed plenty of times. They couldn't have an overnight date where the lead stays up most of the night talking/having sex and then have him/her go on another overnight date straight after with nothing but a shower in between. He'd be dead by the third date. Caila's FD was on the 7th of Nov and the FRC was on the 18th. 10 days in between. 1 for rose ceremony, 2 for parent meetings, 2 for final dates and 1 off-day. That still leaves 4 days, two of them FD's, two off-days.

Um, turtles aren't born, they hatch.

Yaaaaawn.

Desiree had the worst walk. I was watching that season with my boyfriend and he couldn't stop mentioning that she walks like a man, so no, it's not just women who pay attention to these things. Des also has stubby legs, which didn't help her attractiveness. She still ended up snagging an ex-athlete, so good for her!

I read in some quality paper once that middle age starts at 36. Not sure who came up with it, I think it was probably based on some big survey. I don't think it's wrong though, because I don't see how you could be considered "young" at that age. Obviously not old either these days, but it wasn't long ago that most people died before hitting 40. 36 is definitely between young and old AKA middle age.

Oh I remember him accusing the hotel staff, but who said he flipped tables and broke things? You'd think the hotel would've called the cops if that had happened. I just can't believe half the things said about season 2 anonymously when most of it didn't even make sense.

Not anymore: https://www.instagram.com/p/-M-QeTHSfC/?taken-by=shawn_booth18

When on earth did Sean have violent outbursts? All I saw was him retreating into his shell, not one hint of anger or violence. Having a DUI doesn't make anyone dangerous and violent, just stupid and reckless.

I don't think Neil could've told Sam in advance without killing all the suspense. It would've been obvious from Sam's behaviour that he'd already rejected her. She would've gone from "changed" Sam on an upward spiral back to "evil bitch" in a nanosecond. I think they're strongly encouraged to make their decisions separately and to wait until Decision Day to voice them. Even the couples who decide to stay together look super nervous about what the other person will say. I don't see why Neil is expected to be the exception.

Actually it's been reported by several people including Ashley I. that the woman who bid for Nick was originally bidding for Michael Garofola, but lost (he went for 5,300), so she bid for Nick. Nick also managed to raise 10k for his and Shawn's Movember team last year. I guess he's just good at raising money for charity.

JoJo's date was definitely first. There were people at the resort reporting bits of info and two days after Caila's date (which there were pics of) they reported there was a helicopter date that day. JoJo is the only one who got a helicopter. There's always a day in between FD's, so no time for Lauren before JoJo. It also makes sense that they'd save Ben's favourite for last, so he's as open as possible to the other two options. Clearly it worked. Ben looked kind of sad at times with Lauren, like he knew he'd messed up.

I just can't muster up any sympathy for Sam whatsoever. Perhaps because I don't believe a single word coming out of her mouth. She may have grown fond of Neil, like a cat grows fond of his new scratching post, but it had nothing to do with love. She was taking Neil for granted and treating him like crap on top it, but the minute he started counting down the days, she got desperate to win him over. It's all about her. Her toddler tantrum proved again how manipulative she is. She probably hoped Neil would come running after her. So glad he didn't move a muscle. It's clear that whatever attraction Neil felt in the beginning soon disappeared while watching her crude behaviour and hearing her hurtful words. I can't blame him at all. I mean what sane man would be attracted to someone like Sam? No one. It was funny how she showed up the next day in a cute dress with her hair all shiny and straightened. It was such an obvious attempt to show him what he missed out on. Maybe you should've made an effort a bit sooner, Sam! And she was still being a bitch to him with all the "of course I'm fine, why wouldn't I be fine" "well I was open and honest" stuff. Bye Sam! Don't let the door hit you on your way out! Glad Vanessa and Tres decided to give it a go. BTW, whoever thought Neil's wording was cruel should realise they're coached to beat about the bush as evidenced by Vanessa's long-winded answer full of but's. I'm gonna miss Nola the most! Ashley looked frightening in the preview! If she was hoping to come off more sympathetic then that wasn't the way to go. She looked like some movie villain.

I think all her clothes looked a size too small this week, but that's because she's clearly gained some weight during the show. Most of them do, since the mansion is filled with junk food and they have nothing else to do except sit around eating and drinking booze. JoJo seems to have fared better on that front. I read an interview with Caila where one of the questions was this: Now I don't know if she's just trying to toe the company line since she's in the running for the Bachelorette, but if people assumed I had sex with someone who dumped me straight after and I really didn't, I'd quickly set them straight. It's not kissing and telling if there was no kissing.

Is it just me or does it sound like Sam still hasn't given up hope? Neil's making it very clear they're friends and nothing more, but Sam's tone is very different. Be careful, Neil!

I watched it again in HD as well and I didn't see a single tear on her face. Yes, her eyes were a bit watery after she'd been squeezing them for a while, but not one tear rolled down that I could see. I can drench my face just by seeing a dog die in a movie. I'm not saying everyone has to cry when sad, but when they sound like they're crying and look like they're crying, I kind of expect some water to come out. But that's just me.