MsPH

I do have a sneaking suspicion he had sex with at least JoJo and Lauren. When you've spent half the day making out in skimpy swimwear and exchanged multiple ILY's, then what else is there to do? Seems like a natural progression. Andi and Kaitlyn had sex with Nick while crazy about their final picks and other Bachelorettes had sex with two men as well. Bob Guiney had sex with 5.5 women or something. I'm just not naive enough to think Ben is some exception, and I think we would've heard about it if he was. Obviously I wasn't there, but I've stopped giving these people the benefit of the doubt.

Pretty sure Lauren is currently 26 (had a birthday recently), JoJo is 25 and Caila is 24 (she was actually 23 on the show, not sure why they're lying about it).

Yeah, that honestly blows my mind. I watched the first season of Bachelor New Zealand and the lead was a 26-year-old guy like Ben, but he didn't kiss anyone until episode 5 or something, made it clear that there was no sex happening on the overnight dates (his F1 didn't even share a room with him) and there were no "I love you"s exchanged even at the end. No proposal either obviously. Now a year later, the final couple is still together, very much in love and happy. The US show is 30 seasons in, yet all the all the leads act like they have no clue what they've gotten themselves into. Somehow they manage to turn every season into a clusterfvck at some point. Ben came off Kaitlyn's season, which was a total mess thanks to her inability to keep her feelings (and private parts) to herself, yet he seems to have learned nothing from it. I just don't understand. How hard can it be?!

I think they started it last season with Kaitlyn. But yeah, TMI. I don't need to see these people post-coitus. Eww. Ben is an idiot. Total idiot. He could've saved someone a lot of heartache by simply keeping his stupid thoughts to himself like he's supposed to do. I wouldn't be surprised if the producers were urging him to say whatever he feels though, since it was way too obvious he's leaning towards Lauren. They needed some drama and he delivered. I just can't with Caila. She and Ben seemed like total strangers on their date yet she's talking about being ready to marry him and blah blah while crying dry tears. Bitch please! I really hope they don't make her the Bachelorette, because I don't think I can watch. One more pause and dramatic breath and I'll reach through my screen and strangle her. The turtles were adorable! So jealous of that part of the date.

OMG, it would be hilarious if David and Sam were together! I can just picture the experts trying to take credit for that because they came this > < close to putting them together and they obviously never would've met if they hadn't been cast for the show, etc.

I don't think Becca is mysterious, just a kind-hearted laid-back person whose smile lights up my screen.

Yes, I always find it fascinating how much people's idea of beauty varies. I actually think Ben has good taste, because I find all the women in his top 6 really pretty. I think Lauren and Caila are the most striking, but I dislike Caila's personality, so Lauren would be my pick if I were a man. JoJo can be a bit homely at times, but she is pretty sexy. Becca has some strange radiance that makes her really pleasant to look at for me. I find Emily really cute as well, her eyes are gorgeous. Amanda is probably the least attractive to me, because her face just looks a bit pinched and I think she might've had a nose job, since there's something strange going on there. And her frozen forehead freaks me out. Jimmy Kimmel did an emoji recap of the last episode and used the mouse emoji for Amanda because of her voice. I thought she actually resembles that mouse. She's still pretty though, obviously.

To be honest, Sam actually reminds me of Andi Dorfman, personality-wise. They're even both half-Jewish!

That really annoyed me for some reason. It was his private account, clearly named so that it wouldn't be easily found, and here's Sam linking the whole world to it just to show she's "close" to him. I can't stand that woman. Stay away Neil! BTW, in that clip of the episode on starcasm, Neil said "I'm committed... I want a divorce", not "I'm committed... to a divorce". Or that's what I heard anyway.

Thanks for that! I must say that clip made me smile. Maybe I'm a bad person, but she got what she deserved IMO. Tres giving another gift to Vanessa. Who would've thought?

I loved the recaps over at TWOP! Took like half an hour to read, but I didn't mind at all, since they were so hilarious. Everything's so concise these days, I appreciated the wordiness. The modding was a tad overeager though. Had to tiptoe around hoping to not set of any land mines. I'm all for keeping people in line, but you can use words for that instead of the ban button. Props to the mods here for keeping their cool! I also don't get Ben falling in love with two women at the same time. I just don't see him having the same connection with the other two that he has with Lauren. Hard to imagine him falling in love with either of them in one date, unless he's the type of guy who falls for any attractive woman who gives him the time of day. I guess two is better than none though, looking at you Juan Pablo, and you Brad Womack.

LOL, brilliant! Just brilliant. I can't really blame David for liking some tweets about Ashley. He probably knows who dug up his police report etc., which IS crazy IMO. He said himself in that New York Post interview that they agreed to be friends and to make it an amicable divorce, but then things changed when the SM hate started. Didn't someone say she refused to even talk to him at the reunion? Sounds pretty crazy to me. I am so happy about Neil's decision! Smart man. Just because Sam suddenly wanted him doesn't change her core personality which is not something I would want to deal with on a daily basis, let alone start a family with. I really really really hope he didn't change his mind afterwards and Sam's Twitter craziness is just about saving face.

Apparently the episode that is up on Amazon Prime has all the decisions, in case some of you are impatient. I don't think we can discuss them anywhere yet though, since the spoiler thread is locked.

I agree. I also liked Vanessa in the beginning, but she's been such a closed-off, evasive sad sack lately that I just can't take it! You'd think she was a hormonal teenager, not an adult woman. I don't think she realises that you have to give people some reason to love you. Well anyone besides David anyway. A spouse is not your parent. You can't expect them to love you unconditionally, even if you're being a depressing stick in the mud at all times. Maybe it's got something to do with her father leaving, but like I said, your spouse is not, and shouldn't be, your parent. Is she really expecting Tres to ask for divorce after how he's been doting on her, buying her expensive gifts and flowers? It sure seems like he wants to keep trying. Of course there's no guarantee it'll last, but you'll only find out if you try. I think Sam was all over Neil while he was driving, so he couldn't reciprocate or run away. She wants to be in control and no better opportunity than when the other person is trying to focus on the road at 3AM. She's desperate to make him like her now and I love it that he's not jumping at it. Ugh, Ashley can't be gone from my screen fast enough. Everyone could see she didn't give a crap about David and his feelings, so those tears were ridiculous. She was crying for herself, for having to be the bad guy, not because she felt bad for David. Then when Dr. C gave her the opportunity to blame it on David's mishap, she was loving it and the tears dried up. Horrible woman.

I don't think she meant for the rose ceremony. As far as I know the contestants aren't allowed to stay home between their HTD and the RC, they're all flown back to LA to hang around in some hotel room with their handler. Amanda's date was filmed first, so she was away from her kids for a week for no reason. Though perhaps they let her see them, since they probably knew she'd be gone next. But I thought it was a legitimate complaint, not that she didn't put herself in that position voluntarily. Only one person is sent home during hometown week, so I don't think they're allowed to let anyone go early. I also hated Amanda's HTD. Those poor kids were not happy at all, and if TPTB thought our ovaries would explode watching Ben with two toddlers then they thought wrong. He looked so awkward! The younger one seemed terrified of him. They better not even entertain the idea of making Amanda the Bachelorette! Lauren's dad was so cute! I just wanted to pinch his cheeks. Her sister is really pretty as well and kind of flirty. She should go on next season. Ben is just in love with Lauren. I think he was dying to get this season wrapped up, hence the tears when he couldn't just say "I love your sister!!!". Seems like he'd fit right in with her family. Caila's date was just yawn to me. She's annoying and I can't believe a word she says. She's still writing that perfect love story in her head rather than being in the present. How can you think Ben is the One for you when he's just trying to stop any conversation from happening by giving you quick friendly pecks? I'm not a fan of her dad either, I dislike his lecturing way of talking. Jojo's date was a mess. The whole ex thing was totally producer hijinks. I don't know if Jojo was in on it or not though. I didn't think her brothers were that bad, it's just that Ben didn't know how to deal with them at all. I don't think he's used to being questioned, since he's the golden boy. He looked like he was crapping himself the moment they started talking to him and that just made them even more suspicious. I can't really blame them, because Ben seemed so insincere and cagey. Yes, they could've been more polite about it, but I don't usually react well either when I feel like someone's insulting my intelligence. Even Ben knows they had a point since he got so defensive. "Am I that evil that I want to make her fall in love just so I can crush her heart?" No, you're not evil Ben, but that's what you're doing anyway, so tough luck.

I don't think his sister was totally denying David was arrested, she said the rumours weren't true as in he didn't attack anyone with a knife. She didn't claim it was someone else or anything like that as far as I recall.

Sounds like a non-issue as expected: http://www.people.com/article/married-first-sight-david-norton-denies-domestic-violence-rumors-exclusive

I really like Emily too! Yes, she seems a bit young for her age, not that she's old in numbers either, but there's something so genuine about her. She's just being herself, for better and for worse, kind of like a child. It's endearing and makes my maternal instinct kick in somehow, even though I'm not maternal at all usually. I was sad to see her go, even though she obviously wasn't right for Ben. I also thought his mom was bordering on rude with her reaction. Maybe she thought Emily was Ben's number one at that time, since he brought her over and that's why she panicked. It's so obvious Ben is gaga over Lauren. I feel bad for the others, because they can see it, yet Ben tries to convince them that they still have a shot. I know it's his job, but I just hate it when people's common sense kicks in inside the Bachelor bubble and then they're dragged back into the delusion. Run JoJo, run! I also thought JoJo's date was pretty boring and lonely. Can't imagine spending a whole day at some windy stadium. I'm sure they could've found some other place to have a dinner at in Chicago. Caila is so annoying. She worries about the most trivial things and can't give a straight answer to any question. I just get the sense that her life has been very easy and she's always been the best at everything. Well I'm afraid men are pretty simple creatures and aren't looking for a woman whose thoughts they can't even begin to follow. A little mystery may be intriguing, but she's just OTT. Amanda and her frozen face and squeaky voice can just go. I feel bad for Becca, because she got used to Chris pursuing her even though she was barely interested, and now that she actually was into Ben, he just wasn't feeling it. Must sting, but that's what she signed up for. I like that she told him that she'd rather go now than later if he was unsure, even though she seemed pissed about it at first.

Sam is contradicting herself like nobody's business! For weeks now she's been calling Neil out on being fake, telling him to be real like it's her mission in life to make him as blunt and inconsiderate as she is herself. Then Neil answers honestly that no, he doesn't miss that pain in his ass after a whopping day apart, and suddenly she's all "this was your one chance to say something nice to me, I'm so hurt now blah blah". This after acknowledging that at least he was honest. So now you don't want his honesty? Suddenly he needs to tell you what you want to hear instead of the truth? Make up your damn mind already, Sam! It's all about what she wants, the rest is just excuses. I don't even think what Neil said was mean, I get him. I don't miss people easily either. No way would I miss anyone after a day unless I'd just fallen in love with them and was still in that state of temporary insanity. Someone like Sam? I'd be elated to be rid of them! I don't think Tres and Vanessa should be giving up their apartments anytime soon, let alone buying a new one together. She still doesn't trust him at all, so it's not even a real relationship yet, let alone a marriage. You can't put the cart before the horse. I mean obviously this show does, but no reason they should keep doing it after the filming is over. They should try to build trust and fall in love first before making any major financial decisions. If Tres really likes her then I don't see how living apart/staying at each other's places is a problem. That's how normal relationships progress, people aren't moving in together right away. If not owning a house together is their downfall then boy, were they never right for each other! Seriously, if they grow apart because they aren't living under the same roof permanently then it never would've worked in the first place. I still have my doubts about Tres, but I don't get her attitude. It's like she's trying to force them into this picture perfect marriage, when they barely know each other and she can't even look him in the eye when they talk. And she keeps laughing when someone asks them how it's been going! He looked really annoyed with that when they were on that horse and even made some comment about it. It's like she never thinks Tres is taking the marriage seriously enough, yet she's the one acting like it's a big joke. Ashley and David are just counting down the days. Can't believe Ashley's "romantic" gift. An apron? David deserves an Oscar for that enthusiastic reaction. Ashley didn't seem happy at all with what she got. She was probably hoping for some expensive jewellery, so she'd at least have something to take away from this mess. Good on David for not giving her anything tangible!

I enjoyed this special as well. The wedding was lovely and I really think Jade and Tanner are perfect for each other. They both want to settle down and seem to think they lucked out big time. Good for them! Carly should find some other career. Sorry, but that wasn't good. I forgot how steamy some of those hot tub scenes were! I had to look away. I also thought it was telling that they pretended like the Marcus and Lacy wedding never happened. I think they've broken up or at least on a break, but it's a bit difficult to explain to people, since they're supposed to be married. What are they gonna say? We divorced, even though we were never really married? Tricky situation.

That is what I meant. Caila also has the least Twitter followers. I know SM isn't everything, but it is pretty indicative of who the general public is drawn to. Even though people are giving Amanda a hard time on message boards, most viewers seem to be lapping up that poor single mommy victim act. Caila doesn't seem to be resonating with most of the viewers, so unless something major happens in the next 3 episodes, I just don't see her being their number one pick for the next lead. She's already had two one-on-ones, so it's not like she's been hidden or anything. Still people aren't drawn to her. She also seems immature and not very good at expressing her feelings or even recognising them. Not what TPTB are looking for IMO.

Nice braces. The ex kinda looks like a younger slimmer darker David actually. But WTH is he wearing?

LOL. Did she say they had sex on their wedding night? On the show they pretended they waited until the honeymoon.

I don't know... I think they'll find a way to make it work, if they really want JoJo. She's the only real option right now IMO. Caila's the least popular out of the F5 by far, so unless something major happens, I don't see her getting the job. She's too immature to handle it anyway. If they choose Amanda then that's just a total joke. She may be pretty (though who knows under all that makeup and botox), but two toddlers and a meddling ex? Just what every young handsome famewhore is dreaming of! Oh wait... Becca might be in the running just because she's the oldest and has plenty of experience with this show and a pretty big fanbase, but I still don't see her as their number one choice by any means. That leaves JoJo, who's popular, sexy and has an outgoing personality.

It's pretty shitty if they were indeed friends until Ashley started getting hate from viewers and then she had her family and friends trash him. What a horrible person! You can defend yourself without throwing the other person under the bus. That's just vile. BTW I watched some of episode 3 again, because I wanted to see David's reaction to finding out their honeymoon destination. He just smiled and said "We're going to the desert!" and then Ashley said she's never been there before, but we didn't hear David saying he has. But anyway, I was shocked because throughout the episode Ashley was smiling, laughing, joking and even a bit flirty. I don't know if it was the alcohol or simply relief after getting through the wedding, but she was a like a different person! I remember I was hopeful about them after that episode, but then she turned into a cold fish in episode 4 and it's been getting worse ever since.