MsPH

I for one don't really care why Taylor did it, she's still the one who tried to act like an adult at that moment and Corinne was having none of it. No one's asking them to be friends, but I don't see why any adult would insist on holding a grudge over something that happened months ago, when they could simply acknowledge it wasn't their finest moment and move on. I'm no fan of Taylor, but she was willing to do that. Corinne wasn't and that's childish to me. Taylor clearly struck a nerve when she uttered the word intelligence, but she didn't kill Corinne's puppy for heaven's sake.

I was also confused by Liz suddenly turning her appearance into some feminist empowerment speech. Did I miss something, because I haven't seen her be slut-shamed anywhere? Unless it's happened in her hometown in the middle of nowhere. Pretty sure most people were fine with her having a one-night stand and leaving it at that. It's the not even trying to contact him for 9 months, even though her bestie had his number, and then going on TV to date him and having no proper answers to any of his questions that people were questioning, understandably so. I'm sure she has many great qualities, but the whole love fest was over the top. Taylor and her amazing brain are the definition of immature, but I did feel a bit bad for her at the end. She tried to bury the hatchet and as a final attempt offered an apology. Corinne, however, was just like "Thanks!" and that was it. She could've said something, anything, in return, but she acted like Taylor did something hideous and she did nothing and it was Taylor's duty to apologise to her. All she showed was that she's the best there is at holding a childish grudge. I hate that they keep indulging her. Danielle L. is ridiculous. You went on two dates with the guy and are still crying about it 4 months later? For real? I rolled my eyes so hard when she said she would've rather gone home after their 1-on-1 than been subjected to the 2-on-1. You made it to the final seven! Not two, se-ven. He really led you on there. NOT. If she's really still thinking that they had some amazing connection and Nick just failed to see it since she was so rattled due to being on the dreaded 2-on-1, she's delusional. I hope she was acting because if not, I'm worried about her. It's always so annoying when the nobodies keep yapping in hopes of getting a BIP offer. No one cares what you have to say. I'm also annoyed by them all asking what was missing and why Nick dismissed them despite them thinking they're exactly what Nick wants. It's not bloody rocket science. There's one of him, 30 of you, do the math! I can understand asking that when you're dumped in a real monogamous relationship, but with hoardes of other women in the picture, I'd rather just deduce that he felt more strongly for someone else than hear some specific criticism.

I kind of love Vanessa, the "I want to chop him up and feed him to the reindeer" made me laugh out loud. Pretty sure reindeer are herbivores, but anyway. I also love watching her and Nick. They talk to each other like adults in an honest and straighforward manner. Both seem unfraid of saying what they really think, even when they know it's probably not something the other person wants to hear. That's pretty rare on this show, since there's an inherent power inbalance between the lead and the contestants. Most contestants are so in the bubble they'll say anything to win and choose to worry about the real stuff later. I'd much rather listen to Nick and Vanessa assessing their relationship potential and talking about their non-negotiables than another discussion about "opening up" and "never expecting to feel like this". I just space out whenever they start that Bachelor speak, which is why I missed at least half of what Raven and Rachel were saying on their dates. The discussion with Rachel seemed more like Nick coaching her on how to be the lead and how to surrender to the process. I don't think she was in on it, since she seemed genuinely heartbroken at the end, but I have feeling Nick knew what was in store for her. I suspect she would've been in the final two if they didn't want her as the Bachelorette. Nick and Vanessa may both be hard-headed, but I don't think their prospects are as bleak as the show tried to make it seem. If you listened carefully, Nick was basically saying that he'll do everything he can to make his partner happy as long as it's reciprocated. That seemed to be the problem in his first long-term relationship with the girl with the overbearing (Indian?) family. He was doing all the bending while not getting the same in return. I think that shows that he does want to put his partner first, but is scared that he'll fall into the trap of it being a one-way street again. I actually think it's smart of him to not give in too much at this point, since Vanessa is pretty strong-willed and is not gonna take well to Nick going back on his word later. He's managing her expectations, and I guess you could say she's doing the same in return. That's a good thing in my book. If they do decide to commit, then I think time will fix these issues. The more someone means to you and the more you trust them, the more you want to compromise. That's my experience at least. No words for the stupidity of that Raven montage. I'll be surprised if they actually had sex. It's more likely Nick gave her a vibrator and said he'll be back in the morning.

I agree that the more they try to mess with the format, the worse the show gets. I have not come by one person who likes the pointless cliffhangers and mid-episode rose ceremonies. Who cares about Taylor coming back or Nick storming off or Andi standing behind the door? It's just annoying when the first half hour of each episode is wasted on that nonsense plus a rose ceremony. I'm sure I'm not the only one who just wants them to be over with as quickly as possible. Kind of ruins the suspense rose ceremonies were originally designed for. And the total obsession they have with "villains"! They were hammering us with Olivia, then Chad and now Corinne. They aren't nearly as interesting or relevant to the "journey" as the editors seem to think. A little would go a long way. Now we miss out on seeing any genuine relationship development because they'd rather show us some idiot shoving food in their mouth. So frustrating. I get that there are only so many things that can happen in the confines of this social experiment and pretty much all of them have in 33 seasons, but screwing up the continuity and focusing on dumbasses isn't the answer. I'm gonna have to check out Rachel's season just to see if more diversity can breathe some life into this show, but I'm not holding my breath. Seems like the cast gets more vapid and famewhorish every season and their only aspiration in life is to become an IG shiller or a lifestyle blogger. It's boring.

I think what Mills said actually makes a lot of sense. First of all, there have never been contestants from this show on two consecutive seasons of DWTS. It's kind of overkill even in the best of circumstances. Second of all, Chris's status as a newly engaged man was milked quite a bit with Whit in the audience every week and her being interviewed on the online stream. In the meantime Chris looked more interested in Witney than Whitney and a couple of weeks before Chris was eliminated, Whitney just disappeared from the audience. Then a few weeks later they called it quits. That's not exactly positive PR for either show. Putting Kaitlyn, the loose cannon, on the show with her jealous and insecure (on Kaitlyn's season) new fiancé watching from the sidelines, probably seemed like a risk on the best of days. Plus she's annoying and entitled and thinks she can do anything and still get what she wants. I have no doubt Fleiss enjoyed telling her it's a no-go, but I think Kaitlyn is wilfully is ignoring a lot of legitimate reasons in favour of turning this into some act of feminism. Really she's just jealous and pissed off because Nick of all people got the gig she so desperately wanted. I highly doubt she even had any sort of final contract in her hands. Probably one of those ABC contracts they make at least three people sign every year before they announce the next lead.

About Nick's new business: http://www.etonline.com/news/211774_exclusive_bachelor_nick_viall_reveals_his_next_big_move/

You're definitely not alone! I agree with every word of your post.

I would fall into that bracket as well, so I don't doubt it. Raven is 25-26, however, and still talking like she's expecting a man to give her orgasm. I don't support that kind of helplessness in women. It's no one else's responsibility to figure out how your body works before you figure it out yourself, unless we're talking about an actual medical issue, then a trip to a gynecologist would be in order. If she's tried and tried and still can't make it happen, then that's very unfortunate, but the last thing she should be expecting is for a man to fix that issue for her.

I think the problem is that at some point Raven said she's never had an orgasm before, as in at all. It's totally understandable to have trouble orgasming during intercourse or whatever, the majority of women do, but if she's never even given herself an orgasm, then how can she expect a man to do it for her? I for one think everyone should learn to pleasure themselves first before even trying to have sex with another person. You know what feels good for you better than anyone, since you're the one feeling it. If you can't even "crack the code" yourself then how much chance does another person, who has no idea what you're feeling, have? But perhaps she thinks masturbation will make her go blind or something. In any case, I also didn't like how she seemed to expect sex would be happening and that Nick might be the man to finally please her. He himself said he has no expectations, yet she started insinuating things in the pub already and then dropped the big O reveal just before heading into the FS. He looked really uncomfortable.

Yes. I really hope Nick didn't have sex with her because I'm sure we'll hear about it in detail at some point if he did. Does she realise she's in front of TV cameras? I didn't see any chemistry between them either. I'm sure Nick cares about her, like he does about all these women, but she's still a girl. I happen to think Nick's looking for a woman. If Raven wasn't already in the little sister category, she is now.

The final rose ceremony and fantasy dates were in Jamaica. The pig date happened in the Bahamas before they went to Indiana and before hometowns.

Yeah, I believe Nick may have tweeted something from her account out of anger, but I don't believe that he would frame her, that would just be crazy. He has his faults (clearly) but I don't think he's some sociopath, and Sonia wouldn't still be saying she loves him, if he did something that horrible. Makes more sense to me that he suspected something, logged into her account and saw something that made him jump to conclusions, and I'm just wondering what and whether it really was incriminating. Sonia may seem sweet, but she'd not perfect either. Just because she says she didn't cheat doesn't mean nothing was going on. Everyone has their own definition of cheating. I also don't believe anyone forced them to stay together. I think they were genuinely trying, at least at some point, and then it just blew up all of a sudden.

These two confuse me so much. Sonia was on IG live last night for a long time, clearly sad (even bursting into tears a couple of times) while denying she's sad and avoiding the Nick questions the best she could. I don't get it to be honest. If you're going through some crap in your relationship then why put yourself in a position where hundreds of people keep asking you about it? Seems masochistic to me, but perhaps the positive attention is worth it. She did say she and Nick love each other and that he has the potential to be a great man, but didn't really clarify the situation one bit. When someone asked if she knows who hacked her she said yes, but that she can't say who it was, which kind of implies Nick to me. Still confused why he would hack her though, unless by hacking they mean that he looked at her Twitter account on her phone/computer, saw some compromising direct messages, jumped into conclusions and tweeted something out of anger. Who the hell knows. I'm not sure if they're done or not, since the only thing she would say was that they're still married, which duh, it's not like you can get a divorce in a few days. If I was them I'd just keep quiet until I get my crap sorted. Not sure what they get out of all the speculation they are fanning.

Poor pigs. :( I hope someone didn't do that intentionally.

Jimmy Fallon and Elijah Wood talking about Nick and the show:

It might've been the best olive on a scale of "utterly vile" to "mildly disgusting".

From what I gather he's not working for Salesforce anymore. He took a leave of absence after Kaitlyn's season and never went back. I think he's been dabbling in all kinds of stuff in LA up until the Bachelor and is now starting his own business with someone. I'm not even sure where it's based. But he definitely has ambition and I don't buy the notion that he's planning to just stay in Hollywood and famewhore for the rest of his life. He's been having fun while single and carefree, but I think he knows full well that it's only temporary.

I thought that was just Nick's drier than dry humour, but then I read Sonia's tweets and some IG comments and now I'm confused. If they keep engaging with fans, I wish they'd just say what they mean instead of all the vague comments. If Nick really did accuse her of something just because of some hacker then I'd call it a day if I were her.

Well he seems to have supported himself just fine up to this point and had a 10+ year career in software sales before his little gap year (or two). I've read in a couple of a places that he's launching an online men's grooming product business soon with a partner, so he's not exactly unemployed, rather an aspiring entrepreneur. Whether the business will succeed is obviously yet to be seen, but I don't see Nick as unambitious by any means.

I enjoyed the shirtless mud rolling and the genuine emotion from Raven and her dad, but I don't really see anything real between her and Nick. She can't say she loves him because she doesn't. I also thought it was sad that she was worried about losing Nick because she hasn't said ILY yet. I know we hear that every season, but seriously now, have some self-worth! A man should love you and want you for you, not because you're throwing yourself at him more aggressively than others. As long as you think you can make someone love you if you just do this or do that, then you'll keep attracting a-holes. I liked meeting Rachel's family, they're all so articulate and willing to talk about the elephant in the room. On one hand I wish they hadn't gone on about race so much, since I don't think it helps people see it as a non-issue if even people in multiracial households still treat it as an issue, but then again, it was probably only a few minutes of a date that lasted hours. The editors choose what to show and that's what they decided to focus on with Rachel. I'm not gonna assume her family is obsessed with the topic. They might've even been encouraged to bring it up. I did like Nick saying that he's not colour blind, because most people aren't and acting otherwise comes off a bit fake. I do think he really likes and admires Rachel for the person she is, but I'm not sure how much romance I see between them. Potential for a great friendship yes. Corinne's dad was hilarious. He seemed fine with the idea of Corinne supporting Nick as long as she's fine with it. Nick seemed insulted by the idea though, as most men would. His face when the dad brought it up was priceless as was the "I wish better for myself". Corinne just seems like such a child still and a very spoiled one at that. Nick may have fun goofing around with her, but I doubt he's looking for a spoiled little princess who spends her days shopping and being nannied. I did feel a bit sad for Corinne though when she told her dad that she never thought she could get a man like Nick. I mean I like Nick, but how low is her bar? She really seems to think she has nothing to offer except her body and money. If dating Nick taught her to aim higher, then I guess it wasn't all in vain. (Now watch her get engaged to Chad in Paradise.) I liked meeting Vanessa's students and seeing how much they love her. Nick also seemed like a natural with them which was nice to see. The bikini kissing pics made me a bit uncomfortable as well though. I mean I get the reason behind the scrapbooking, since they'd made a scrapbook for Nick before filming plus it was a fun interactive way of showing them what she's been up to while gone, but the bikini pics felt a bit much. At least they were all adults. As for Vanessa's family, I also get the feeling that we saw what the editors wanted us to see, angst and doubt and more angst. Make of that what you will. I doubt the whole evening was quite so tense. I also suspect her family expected her to be gone for a few weeks and come back with some exciting stories, and instead she came back seemingly in love with Nick and ready to get engaged. They were probably freaked out by the prospect of losing her, hence all the moving talk, or if not, seeing her devastated. Neither outcome probably excited them seeing as they're so close. I also think Vanessa has a reason to feel confident and we just haven't seen it thanks to the awful editing this season. And I can see why hearing Nick's been asking blessings for a week would burst her bubble.

I guess Nick and Sonia are in love now, or at least Nick is since he's been posting sappy IG posts for several days in a row. They're cute.

It's not the confronting her, it's the way he went about it. He said some pretty awful things that made him sound like a proper scorned narcissist. No thanks to seeing any more of him.

Yeah, if I had to guess which one of those bought followers, it'd be Kaitlyn all the way. Compared to JoJo, she lives for SM.

That's definitely a hoax. What half-famous couple would display their wedding date, time and venue online for the world to see? Way to invite all kinds of shady people to your wedding. Des and Chris kept their wedding details so private even RS was fooled on the date and I'm sure these two will do the same. I would actually give J&J the best odds out of the unmarried show couples around at the moment. I've been following them fairly closely and despite my dislike of Jordan during the season, they do seem like a great match and have been living their lives mostly out of the public eye since the show ended. That's always a good sign.

They do? Last thing I heard they hadn't even picked a date yet. JoJo's brother Matt (the one grilling Ben on the HTD) is getting married soon in a fancy location, so perhaps that's what you're thinking off? Ben and Lauren did get offered a wedding for this month actually, but Ben got cold feet and seems like it was the beginning of the end to them. Lauren deserves better than that man baby anyway.