MsPH

I meant they chose each other after the experiment was over. Nothing's forcing them to be together at this point and together they are. I follow them both on snapchat and yes they still live together and seem to be doing fine. He just ordered some dog dental care kit from Amazon saying no more excuses for dog kisses, and she was doing some emotional intelligence test that told her she needs some help with self management and relationship management (she also added #notsurprised). She also snapped a pic of him wearing a Costa Rica cap, but I don't know whether it's a souvenir she brought for him or something he bought himself. I'm guessing the former. And no, you can't just decide to love whoever, but if it's someone who you enjoy being around, respect and find attractive, then thinking something's missing just because your hormones haven't made you go crazy enough to think they're perfect yet, can be a bit stupid. Being in love is a form of insanity. If you get to know your partner's bad parts before the good parts, then it may be hard to fall in love, since that requires a certain level of delusion. That doesn't mean you can't grow to love and respect the other person. We all move past the crazy bit at some point and while it may be nice to reminisce about, it's not a prerequirement to enjoying the present IMO. It's often people like Sonia and Nick who end up being the most loyal and faithful since they don't value the hormonal mess above all else. I also don't get the talk about Nick's drinking. He was drunk once, for the very reason that he's not a big drinker, and it ended badly because of a multitude of reasons. Have we seen him drunk since? I certainly haven't noticed.

I also think Nick's lack of ring may have been scripted suspense, but it's also possible that he just doesn't like rings and hasn't worn it much since filming ended and thus didn't think of putting it on. I'm female and I hate wearing rings. I can always feel them on my finger and it's not a nice feeling, plus if I have one on, I'm constantly fiddling with it. I don't know what I'll do when/if I get married. I like the symbolism, but the thought of having a ring, let alone two, on my finger all the time makes me really uncomfortbale. Many introverts are also highly sensitive (that includes physically), which could be the case with Nick as well.

If they're not in love yet, then they're not in the honeymoon stage yet either. They're still getting to know each other. People can and do grow in love over time. Both of them have said that they love each other, they're just not in love yet. She doesn't seem miserable to me, quite the contrary. As for settling, that's kind of the premise of this whole show. Two out of twelve couples have had a mutual spark from the get-go. If people sign up for this show expecting that then they're crazy. Seems like there are a few of those each season though. But Sonia obviously likes Nick despite him not being exactly what she wants, so she can either stay committed to him and see where things go, or get a divorce and wait around lord knows how many years for that lightning to strike. That's a risky move though, since she's already in her 30s. I for one think love is a choice and Nick and Sonia have chosen each other, so they have every chance to make it work. Feelings come and go. If you respect and care for each other and want to make a life together, then you're more than half-way there. Many settle and end up regretting it, but many also miss out on love these days by waiting for perfection.

http://www.theknotnews.com/jordan-rodgers-jojo-fletcher-birthday-14739 Cute.

I still find Nick and Sonia adorable together, and they can't have edited all the good parts out since I definitely saw him start to really appreciate her around the time they went to feed the homeless. After that he kept giving her the sweetest looks and made references to their future together and whatnot. I think he was just scared she wouldn't be able to forgive him and that held him back a bit. What he wrote in the card in last week's episode was so sweet and genuine. I definitely think the lack of PDA was down to Sonia as well, since at the lunch with Lilly and Tom, Nick was leaning towards Sonia with his arm on the back of her chair while she was leaning against the wall. It's not all on Nick. I do believe he's less touchy-feely in private than Sonia would prefer, but I find that to be a pretty easy issue to overcome compared to major differences in lifestyle and plans for the future. As long as they both remember to also show affection in the way their spouse interprets it, they'll be fine. They both see a future together, they're both committed and clearly want to be married, and they both want kids. Sonia also finds Nick hilarious and he's openly teasing her on SM and in interviews. I just feel like they both appreciate each other as they are and that is huge. What I like about Nick is that I don't think he's ever tried to change Sonia in any way. Even when things were hard, it seemed like he was just trying to figure out if Sonia was someone he'd want to be with rather than trying to change her into the person he wanted. I think his outburst had to do with Sonia trying to push him out of his comfort zone too much, but as soon as she let him just be him (maybe because she didn't care to try very hard at that point), he started feeling more comfortable. I can see their relationship only getting better the better they understand each other. That brings me to Tom, who still kind of annoys me. I can't help it. I hope they have a happy life together, but I can't help having some doubts, since I still get the feeling that Tom is trying out if he can live the married life with Lilly rather than being fully committed to it. Some comments last night and in Jamie's interview just raise red flags for me. It's great that they have the initial spark and the healthy sex life, but so do most couples at the start of a relationship. How many of those relationships last? Not many. I don't think them being married already makes much difference if Tom sees it as entrapment or whatever he described it. Lilly is still young enough to be willing and able to mould herself into the partner Tom wants, but I don't know if it's the best thing for her in the long run. What if she wastes 5 years on trying to please him just to find out he doesn't want kids after all? If he really doesn't then it's better he doesn't have them, but he shouldn't be wasting Lilly's time if that's the case. I hope he at least is able to see all the effort she puts in and meets her half-way, but he seems to have a pretty high opinion of himself, so I don't know. I feel like he's constantly patting himself on the back for all the ways he can "help" Lilly and inspire her to change, which I honestly don't think she needs to. I wish he'd just focus on being a good husband instead of letting others know what a good husband he is. Something phoney about him. I don't have to be with him though, so that's lucky. There is a lid for every pot, or so they say. Overall, I enjoyed this season. Yes it dragged in the middle, because 15 episodes is just overkill, and there was no need to keep up with Heather and Derek, but I like it when something genuine starts on this show.

If they're starting with the happy couple and have depressing Heather and Derek in the middle, then surely Sonia and Nick must still be together. Why would they end on a depressing note?

I re-watched some of the episode as well and I really don't see why people think Nick and Sonia are a sham. I thought they were super cute throughout the episode and absolutely beaming at the final decision. Best parts were Nick giving Sonia the photobook of their honeymoon and the card he gave to Sonia with the necklace, which read "You put your spirit and your heart, your best efforts and your best self into everything, and it shows. You deserve to feel [???] and to be honoured. Sonita, it's been quite the journey. I'm glad we didn't give up and are at a good place right meow. <3 Hubster" How sweet is that? They also seemed really happy and relaxed at the lunch with Tom and Lilly and it was Nick who was leaning towards Sonia with his arm on the back of her chair while she's the one who was leaning against the wall. They may not have been acting like a regular married couple, but that's because they're not. They're only at the start of their relationhip, two people who enjoy spending time together and see a lot of good in each other, but are only just getting to know each other. If there's anything there at all then why not continue seeing where things go? They can break up and get divorced whenever they want, there's no need to rush into anything since they're already married.

I don't see his introversion as a matter of opinion or something he's trying to sell. He acts like an introvert, his friends and family describe an introvert when talking about him, and I, a fellow extreme introvert, see a lot of myself in him, for better and for worse. If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, then it's a duck as far as I'm concerned. No, being an introvert doesn't excuse bad behaviour, but it does help one to understand why he is the way he is, why he finds it so hard to tell Sonia what he's thinking and feeling and why he seems almost scared of touching her. It's not intentional or something he's chosen for himself, I can tell you that much. No one wants to be inhibited, they just are and it's hard to change. For a person like him, it takes time to be truly comfortable with someone. It doesn't make him gay or a robot or unfit for a relationship (I mean, I've been in one for 5 years already despite all my "issues"). There are plenty of relationships that start from friendship and develop into more later. Just because you don't want to rip each other's clothes off the first night doesn't mean you never will. Both Nick and Sonia have said that they wouldn't have picked each other up from a bar, so clearly it wasn't instant chemistry. Trying to force intimacy in a situation like that isn't the best idea as evidenced by what happened with these two. I think they decided to take things to the next level maybe with some liquid courage involved, but Nick was still iffy about his feelings, so it got a bit too intense for him afterwards. He said himself here that is wasn't primarily about physical attraction. I just don't get this idea that he was never attracted to her and never will be because at one point in time he wasn't feeling it and wanted to escape the situation. Attraction isn't a constant, unless you're really shallow and equate attractiveness with looks, and those looks never change (which is impossible). After the outburst Sonia was obviously very hurt and not open to any physical affection, so they tried to build a friendship. I know most of us have been like "why won't he just make a move?", but when you think about it, they'd been mostly affectionate off camera, so Sonia's unwillingness to move back in and thus be around him off camera sent a pretty strong signal that advances aren't welcome. Maybe she didn't mean it like that, but I'm sure that's how it came off from Nick's point of view. He did give her a hug and a kiss on the forehead in two episodes, also called her beautiful on their mini-break and said "you look pretty" when they were getting ready for the final decision. It's not like he was acting totally cold. Seems to me that taking a step back and becoming friends first was a good idea, since they wanted to stay married.

I sometimes think we expect way too much from these people. Nobody's perfect, most not even close. I just fail to see Nick as some kind of a villain despite the infamous outburst. He seems harmless to me. Somewhat clueless and very introverted, but I don't think he means harm and I think he did grow attracted to her towards the end when he got to know her better as a person. Obviously I'd be hurt if my spouse told me they don't even like me (though didn't Nick say most of it to the producer, not Sonia herself?), but I think it would be a bit different coming from someone who supposedly chose me himself and told me he loved me numerous times. I might not take it quite so badly coming from someone who was paired up with me by experts and has only known me for a few weeks within a highly stressful experiment. I mean obviously I'd be hurt, but I would hope I'd be able to give him a second chance, since I'd agreed to marry a stranger in the first place. If you're gonna treat this like normal dating then what's he point of even participating? There's a very slim chance you'll get the spouse of your dreams from this show, so if you're not willing to put in any work or get past any hurdles then just stay away. There's little to be lost by giving things a chance after filming wraps up, unless you don't like your spouse at all and that's obviously not the case with Sonia. I don't know for sure if they're still together or not, but they were definitely a couple for a while, since Derek posted a pic he took of them together and congratulated them. Seeing as he hangs out with the other participants so often (just this weekend with Tom and Lilly), I think he knows what's up and it would be pretty crappy of him to congratulate Sonia and Nick with a cute couple pic, if they'd already split up. That's one of the reasons I suspect they're still in some sort of a relationship. There's other social media as well, like Sonia posting a pic of herself and Nick looking pensive at the reunion show next week with the caption "When you make the same face as your significant other (blush emoji)". Would she be calling Nick her SO, if they'd already broken up before the reunion? I get that some of these people love to mislead viewers, but somehow I don't think it's the case here. They're both so upbeat on SM, not like Sam and Neil where she was acting like a creepy stalker and he was mostly silent. The interviews I've read also point to them being together, so I tend to think that's the case unless they broke up fairly recently. I won't be terribly surprised either way though.

I'm not sure if Nick is in Costa Rica with Sonia. I follow her on snapchat and apparently she's staying in her niece's room, which I can't imagine fitting two people. Though maybe Nick's sleeping on the sofa. But there was also a snap of her having a meal with her brother's family and Nick wasn't at the table and it looked like there was no extra room, so I don't know. Not saying he can't be there, but I've seen no real indication that he is and I don't think it's a given just because they've discussed it before. She's obviously there to see her family and I'd imagine she would go regardless of Nick. I hope they are still together though because I also think they have potential once they really get to know each other. They're both just not the easiest people to get to know, so it takes a while before they're in tune. Doesn't make them incompatible.

LOL, TheFinalRose, tell us how you really feel. I thought you were gonna say in order to watch them and I would've agreed, even though I've watched this wreck myself. At least I'm aware that this is a fictional show loosely based on true events, with terrible acting. There is just nothing real about this show. It's easy to tell when these people are reciting lines or acting out scripted situations since none of them can act to save their lives. There are like 2-5 minutes of real interaction in one episode, the rest is scripted BS that isn't even funny in any way. Like am I supposed to laugh at the girls starting a fire with a lighter and everyone pretending that they're pretending they did it with sticks and the guys believed them? Ohemgee, so hilarious! Don't even get me started on the fake camping and pretending they spent 2 days and 2 nights in the bushes. We all know they were there for a few hours to film and spent the night at a hotel. The twins were even in identical clothes and hairdos on "day 2 of camping". Good lord. Chris Soules is such a loser. Whitney's getting married shortly while he's still trying to extend his 15 mins by hanging around with a bunch of kids and putting the moves on the ditzy twins (or that's what it seemed like). Get a life, Chris! Chad can just die for all I care, since he brings nothing to this world. A vile human being.

Wow, who knew an ugly fake old clock could be so expensive.

I hope the previews are misleading, but then again I remember them strongly hinting at a Tres and Vanessa breakup and that turned out to be real, so who knows.

I'm betting Tom got that clock for free from some yacht he was revamping.

I'm not sure if Nick and Sonia are still together but she's been retweeting a lot of positive comments today including congrats and a pic of her and Nick posted by Derek. Doesn't seem like there are any hard feelings at least. After reading this I'm wondering why the so called experts didn't pair her up with Derek, since according to her "she has the most in common with Derek Schwartz – who shares her “taste in music, a passion for life, sense of humor, sensitivity, and overall view of life.”" Seems like they may have been the perfect fit.

I guess I'm the only one, or one of the few, who was really happy Nick and Sonia decided to stay together. I think they're genuinely cute together, a pair of dorks, and they seem to have a lot more in common than Lilly and Tom despite the lack of instant chemistry. I also think way too much is made out of Nick's outburst. He was drunk, stressed out, frustrated and backed into a corner. I'm sure at that moment in time he wasn't attracted to Sonia, but that doesn't mean that he never was and never will be. Do I think Sonia was his dream woman physically? No, but how many get their dream mate in a situation like this? I don't think he ever found her ugly or even unattractive physically, the attraction just waned the more their wires got crossed and the more pressure he was under. What he said was cruel and I don't blame Sonia for moving out, but in a way it was a good thing, because it changed the dynamic so that Sonia was in power and Nick had to chase her, not that he knows how to do that, but what I mean is that when she became the less eager party, he became more eager. Typical male behaviour. I don't get why people say his face stayed the same, because I thought the opposite. The last couple of episodes he was always looking at her very sweetly and like there was more he wanted to say, but couldn't because he's just so inhibited. He looked genuinely thrilled when she said she's moving back in. I think Nick is just slow to warm up to people and the whole thing got a bit too intense for him at one point. I can relate, because I warm up to people slowly as well, yet after being around someone regularly for a period of time, I grow attached to them, even if they're not particularly close to me. I saw Nick grow attached to Sonia and I found it cute. I'm rooting for them. Tom and Lilly had those initial sparks, but so do most people at the start of a relationship and most of those relationships end up failing. I figured they'd stay together because they seem in love, or close to it, but I don't know how much long-term potential they have. I also didn't like how Tom had to bring up the bus during the final decision as well, like it was a choice between continuing his bus life or being with his potential partner for life. I mean seriously now? I get that he sees that bus as some sort of an extension of his persona, but I would not like to be weighed against a bus by my potential life partner. Lilly seemed genuinely scared that he'd choose divorce, which raises a red flag for me. He could've told her in advance unless he was really undecided until the last minute. I also thought Lilly acted a bit like it was a competition when meeting Sonia and Nick. She seemed to enjoy comparing her and Tom's connection to theirs and deeming it superior. Might be a sign of insecurity. People are different and they show affection differently. Not everyone is all over their partner in front of strangers and cameras. Nick's gift looked like a chain to a pendant, just without the pendant. Sonia looked confused as well. It was a better gift than Tom's ugly big clock though. Sonia's gift was funny and put Nick in his place. Lilly's was just boring. I don't get why they have to make such a massive deal about the final, FINAL, decision. As if they're stuck together forever unless they choose divorce. The edits were just utterly ridiculous with 25 different clips stuck together to create doubt and suspense. FFS. Next week we'll probably find out both couples were dunzo within a month or something and all that buildup was for nothing as usual.

I don't think petting the dogs is comparable to being affectionate towards another human being. I'm also a pretty extreme introvert and shy to boot, though the shyness has thankfully lessened over the years, and if I'm in an uncomfortable situation and there's a dog around, I'll be all over that dog. I don't care whose dog it is or if I just met the dog 2 minutes ago, I'll be petting that creature like he's mine. I grew up with dogs and often times felt closer to them than any human being, so I guess they're like a comfort blanket for me, a stress reliever. They don't judge, they're just happy to get any attention. Focusing on them is also a way to avoid eye contact and turn the other person's attention away from you as well. So Nick being all over the dogs rather than Sonia, just shows me that he's still not comfortable around her and/or the cameras. Whether things are different off-camera, who knows. They might be, since Sonia hasn't totally given up yet, or they might not, in which case is it worth sticking around to see if they get any better? I don't know. I can't help giving Nick some slack since I see myself in him at times. He can act like an idiot, but there are some mental blocks that come with shyness which are hard for most people to understand. Saying or doing something that's totally normal for others might seem next to impossible and it's not that you don't realise how strange that is, you just feel unable to do anything about it and that's extremely frustrating. Nothing that Nick has said or done makes me think that he's not really shy or introverted, he totally is. The only thing he's done that I question, is go on TV in the first place, but I don't think it's just to advertise his business. Considering how inhibited and useless at relationships he is, I can see him thinking of this show a shortcut to marriage. That's what it sounded like when he was ranting about how it shouldn't require work because experts paired you up. Too bad it doesn't work like that in reality. You still have to get to know the other person from scratch, they just can't run away after the first date (well Heather could). I think he might be slowly growing attached to Sonia, but it's still too much for him to talk about his feelings, even if it's just "I miss you". Kind of sad.

I didn't think the prank was funny either, just mean. I'm sure Ben was really excited about throwing the first pitch and then it was overshadowed by several days of stressing out about the singing. How is that funny? I wouldn't do that to an enemy let alone the person I love the most. I'm pretty sure it was the show that set it up, but Lauren went along with it and kept mum for days. I guess I'm just not a prank person, but how can you trust someone who can lie to you for days and might trip you up when you're not looking? Second-guessing everything because your partner has made you paranoid is not my idea of fun. I guess these two are just so naturally unfunny that they need to resort to stuff like this to entertain the audience. Ben is indeed an adult toddler. There were glimpses of that during his season, when he'd throw his toys out of the pram over some imagined slight and when his mom told Lauren that he needs to be talked off the ledge quite often. I guess he's just young and still immature in many ways. Not very attractive to me, but he's not the worst Bachelor by any means. Dull though.

He did that last week as well. I remember because I'd complained about his inability to show any sort of physical affection the previous week and then he did and I was like woah, he's not totally hopeless. Seems like that's as good as it gets though. I actually think he does like Sonia to some extent and even though I'd like to see them work out, I totally get why Sonia's pretty much over it. It doesn't matter if he likes her, if he's unable to show any affection towards her. Some people just aren't affectionate and I don't think Sonia would be happy with someone like that, in fact not many would. It's not even that he's not physically affectionate, he also seems incapable of saying anything nice or affirmative. Definitely one of the most closed-off people I've seen on TV. Sonia deserves better. Tom annoys me as well. I'm not saying he's a bad guy, in fact he reminds me of my brother-in-law in many ways. My BIL is a good guy, just not someone I could ever see myself with, but my sister is very happy with him and that's all that matters. There's someone out there for everyone and I think Lilly could be that someone for Tom, if he'd just realise he needs to compromise and stop thinking he's above us mere mortals. He was so obnoxious about the alternative medicine thing. I do believe alternative medicine can help with some health issues and modern medicine isn't always necessary, but when it's a mechanical problem like torn ligaments or whatever she said it was, then it's not something you can fix by non-invasive means. That is what she was trying to explain by saying she's been to medical school and understands the science behind it, but he just wouldn't listen and then had the nerve to complain about her not listening. Just take a seat, Tom. You don't always know better. I must say it was so refreshing to watch an episode without Heather and Derek lingering around like a bad smell.

I wouldn't say an actual Playboy model, since her pics were never printed in the magazine, they were just on some Playboy amateurs website. I doubt she even got paid for the shoot.

Because he has the need to project his own racist preferences onto all other men. Nevermind mind that everyone who actually knows Nick, including his closest friend since childhood, have said that he has no racial preferences and has actually dated WOC before. Steve will ignore all that just to try and make Nick look bad, since god forbid someone watches his season and ends up thinking he's actually a decent enough guy. Best undermine anything he does that might impress someone well in advance. I've heard Nick describe the type of woman he's looking for enough times to know Rachel ticks pretty much every box (at least on paper and based on those videos from their date). She's also the closest to his age out of all the women in the running we know of so far. If I had to rank the women based on their wife potential on paper, she'd be at the very top, so no, it doesn't surprise me in the least that Nick would give her the FIR. Just because Steve, the pervert, would give his to some 23-year-old blonde waitress doesn't mean every other guy would.

I'm guessing those stories Steve has heard are along the lines of Nick blocking someone who was calling him names on Twitter, which is what they all do. Far be it from him to exaggerate but...

Steve is such a racist pig. I don't know how on earth he has fans. Rachel seems like a total catch and if Nick doesn't pick her, I hope she'll be the Bachelorette.

I can't think of two people from this franchise less interesting than these two. I'm sure there have been some, but obviously I've forgotten them already for that very reason. I'm sure the only reason anyone still remembers Ben is because he had a whole season to himself. Why TPTB thought these two awkward commoners needed more screen time is quite the mystery. I'm guessing it's just a cheap way to fill time until January and to trot out some more engaging Bachelor/ette folks. It's pretty sad when seeing the twins is a welcome distraction. The fake(ish) JoJo drama just made me think once again how fast JoJo would've gotten bored of Ben. Lauren seems like the easiest person ever to entertain, so Ben really won the jackpot there. Though the way she was acting towards him at times made me think she's already a bit disillusioned by his unlovableness.

I actually think Nick does like Sonia and the outburst was more about him feeling like he was pushed into a corner by Sonia and the producers than about any honest feelings. Even happy couples say things they don't mean during arguments sometimes, not that it's acceptable, but I don't think it's something you can't get over either. Maybe it's the fact that Sonia's now unavailable and not hanging on to Nick's every word that's making him more interested in her, but he did look like he genuinely missed having her around this episode. He is just so utterly clueless about how to fix things. If I was Sonia and a guy I'd already had sex with told me he's not attracted to me, I would not be going back for more until he showed me in no uncertain way that he really didn't mean it. Nick thinks it's enough that he said it, but he needs to show it. Trying to be her platonic friend is certainly not gonna get them anywhere, since the issue is still there, she doesn't know if he even likes her. He could do wonders by simply telling her she's pretty or giving her any compliment really, trying to initiate some physical contact with a hug or something, but he's just so timid and closed off it's like pulling teeth getting anything out of him. He seriously needs to man up sooner rather than later. So frustrating. Tom is starting to annoy me too. I have some experience with stingy guys and they all seem to share certain traits that I find unappealing. It's not really about the money, it's how they need to justify their stinginess to themselves by placing themselves above others who they deem materialistic. If you're willing to go through so much effort and mental trickery just to avoid spending any money then it says something about your priorities. I'm careful with money too and can't understand people who live beyond their means, but IIRC Tom said he makes a decent amount of money despite his "minimalism". He is not broke or anything. The fact that he didn't even think of getting anything for Lilly, not even a single red rose, could just be down to thoughtlessness, but then his solution was to get her a few flowers that looked like they'd been plucked out of someone's garden. It's the delivery that bothered me the most, telling her to close her eyes like he was about to present her with something special. I was actually impressed by how undisappointed she was after all the build-up. Tom is lucky to have her. I was equally underwhelmed by his so called vows. I was expecting something really touching and well thought out, but again, it was generic and seemed like something that took 5 minutes to think of. I'm sure Lilly could've managed that much as well, but she clearly wanted to spend some time on hers. Tom just seems way too impressed by his own efforts considering what we're being shown. JMO. Obviously he's a prince compared to the other two men, but still far from perfect. I don't know how compatible these two are in the long run, but at least they like each other for now. Derek and Heather need to just disappear. Talk about beating a dead horse. The suspenseful music when Rachel asked them about their divorce plans as if there was a chance of them saying "Never! We've decided to make this work after all". Oh please. No one cares. NO ONE.