S01.E04: Episode 4

[Door County Cherry]

Released 9/13/19

Quote

After meeting with another victim, Karen and Grace reach out to the FBI for help connecting the dots.  Marie finds herself in a legal nightmare. 

 

[Swartz]

So so good. Merritt Weaver is so unbelievably good.      I just want to hug the poor young girl who was raped.    I just want someone to help her

[Cementhead]

What the heck was that on douchey Scott Parrish's left leg?  Not a birthmark like they had hoped but what the hell was it?  A bad tattoo, I take it?  I paused it a few times to try and make sense of it.

[BooBooLou]

4 hours ago, Cementhead said:

What the heck was that on douchey Scott Parrish's left leg?  Not a birthmark like they had hoped but what the hell was it?  A bad tattoo, I take it?  I paused it a few times to try and make sense of it.

I tried to figure it out but all I saw was a Christmas Tree.

[Cementhead]

38 minutes ago, BooBooLou said:

I tried to figure it out but all I saw was a Christmas Tree.

Ha!  Me, too!  In fact, I was going to actually say in my initial post that it looked like a Christmas Tree tattoo but I thought that sounded crazy so omitted it.  Thanks for letting me know I am not alone in the wtf.

[Lamima]

Yeah, looked like a pine tree. But why would that cross him off? Victim was blind folded and under duress, maybe it was a blur that looked like a birth mark but could be a tattoo, no?

[ErinV]

2 hours ago, Lamima said:

Yeah, looked like a pine tree. But why would that cross him off? Victim was blind folded and under duress, maybe it was a blur that looked like a birth mark but could be a tattoo, no?

Right?  When I saw it, I was surprised how quickly Duvall dismissed him.  I was like, but that could have been it!

[Poohbear617]

Marie's story is just brutal.  Knowing that we are seeing her story here reassures me that she get believed eventually, but as I see her being ostracized,  bullied and brought to court......I just want to skip ahead to the last episode to see her get some understanding. Kaitlyn Deever is killing it in this role, I dread seeing her character be hurt anymore, but that is just a testament to the great job she is doing and how Good this series has been.  I hope the Emmys and Golden Globes remember her performance in this.

[arsenic]

On 9/15/2019 at 3:12 AM, SnK said:

So so good. Merritt Weaver is so unbelievably good.      I just want to hug the poor young girl who was raped.    I just want someone to help her

Every scene with Marie makes me want to reach through the screen and hug her while slapping all these people who supposedly care so much about her in the face.

« omg Marie are you sure that maybe what happened to you wasn’t made up? »

uh you think??

Like, none of these peopme thought «hang on, who even lies about rape? Could it be that she told the truth? »

The whole thing makes me so ragey and disgusted. 

[tennisgurl]

I would have loved it if Marie told her foster mother something like "Well everyone just decided that I was making up being raped, including you, so why would this time be any different?" the poor girl just keeps getting jerked around. Charging her for a "false report" while also sending her the information to the wrong house and then issuing an arrest warren just seems to be rubbing even more salt on the wound. At least the woman in the office and the lawyer helped her a bit, which is at least more than anyone else in the legal system could say. 

All these poor women, I am seriously counting the second until this bastard is taken down. The house mom especially got me, probably because in college I knew a lot of house moms and dads in the Greek Village, and they were just the sweetest kindest people in the world who cared so much about "their kids" and the lady here seemed so sweet. 

[sistermagpie]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

 At least the woman in the office and the lawyer helped her a bit, which is at least more than anyone else in the legal system could say. 

This show really makes you take notice of the people who are helpful in these situations. That woman at the office could have just told her it was sent to the wrong address and wasn't her problem, but she cared enough to give the poor girl a sense of what to do. And that lawyer was obviously a guy she knew she could count on to do the same thing--that is, she knew he'd see that he couldn't just abandon this girl. Neither of those two cared about Marie personally since they didn't know her, but they had a sense of the situation and were willing to take responsibility on themselves.

[Kel Varnsen]

4 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

This show really makes you take notice of the people who are helpful in these situations. That woman at the office could have just told her it was sent to the wrong address and wasn't her problem, but she cared enough to give the poor girl a sense of what to do. And that lawyer was obviously a guy she knew she could count on to do the same thing--that is, she knew he'd see that he couldn't just abandon this girl. 

I also thought it did a good job showing how really Marie is still a kid with not a lot of life experience. Because after she heard the story of the other assault, it didn't really cross her mind to bring that to her lawyer. I mean I totally get why she wouldn't want to talk to the cops ever again, but her lawyer is on her side and could be able to use the other attack to help her case.

[Racj82]

13 hours ago, arsenic said:

Every scene with Marie makes me want to reach through the screen and hug her while slapping all these people who supposedly care so much about her in the face.

« omg Marie are you sure that maybe what happened to you wasn’t made up? »

uh you think??

Like, none of these peopme thought «hang on, who even lies about rape? Could it be that she told the truth? »

The whole thing makes me so ragey and disgusted. 

People lie about rape. It's rare but it happens. If any of these people doubting her actually listened to her for a minute they would understand why she took her statement back. At the very least, I wish her case would have turned over to someone else when doubted her. At least chance that she got detectives who cared. People don't seem to want to listen to her. Listen to the victim. It shouldn't be that hard.

Even if somehow she lied about it. How about getting her some help instead of turning your back on her?

Being treated like a criminal when you are victim is just so insane to me.

When They See Us and Unbelievable are doing an incredible job of showing how fractured the justice system was and continues to be.

[Cheezwiz]

Man, the actor who portrayed that entitled fratty asshat Scott Parrish did an amazing job, because I wanted to reach through my screen and beat him senseless during that interrogation scene. 

His leg tattoo appeared to be a pine tree (?)

[arsenic]

9 hours ago, Racj82 said:

People lie about rape. It's rare but it happens

When people « lie » about rape, they don’t lie about being raped, they lie about who did it. Usually because they want to protect a parent or a spouse.

It’s insane to me how all these counselors at Marie’s place (don’t remember how it’s called) didn’t push to know what exactly had happened.

They just went « oh well I guess she lied. Twice. Oh well. She is a liar then » shrug

I am not a counsellor nor am I a trained detective and even I know that when women « lie » about rape, it’s not really a lie. 

[Kel Varnsen]

36 minutes ago, arsenic said:

When people « lie » about rape, they don’t lie about being raped, they lie about who did it. Usually because they want to protect a parent or a spouse.

Yes it seems like if someone is going to lie about a rape, the kind of lie where they make up a completely fictional story out of thin air and then injure themselves to support that story would be the most rare (as opposed to lies where a victim accuses a person or someone changes a story from consentual sex to rape for a specific reason). I would have to think it would be so rare that if someone did that a decent detective would be inquisitive enough to at least try and investigate and figure out why they did that.

[sistermagpie]

55 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Yes it seems like if someone is going to lie about a rape, the kind of lie where they make up a completely fictional story out of thin air and then injure themselves to support that story would be the most rare (as opposed to lies where a victim accuses a person or someone changes a story from consentual sex to rape for a specific reason).

It's terrifying to me how the idea of changing a story from consensual sex to rape is considered in any way common, but it has spread everywhere, the idea that girls have sex with someone and then later trap him by claiming it was rape because he didn't call the next day or they regret having the sex or whatever. 

But that's far more absurd than even the "made up" story because it's exactly the kind of situation that would bring the worst kind of scrutiny on the woman. If you regret having sex with a guy you don't go to the police or try to prove in court that you didn't really want to do it, facing a whole series of humiliating questions. Same if the guy just dumped you--why would you want to have him publicly telling that story everywhere? 

That was, imo, part of the point of bringing in the frat boy character. He knew there was this familiar story he could claim happened--he even referred to it as "this thing girls do now" like guys were all vulnerable to it. It's common knowledge that the guy is a serial racists, but he knows he can reach for this myth and people will believe him because a lot of pro-rape people have done a lot of work to make believe it's a thing that logically happens. If it was today he'd be referring to how the "me too" movement has gotten out of control.

The kid presents it like, "Phew! Thank goodness I was saved from this horrible woman trap thanks to good law enforcement. I didn't go down like all those other poor guys. Women have so much power the way they can just accuse men of rape!" Meanwhile in the show itself we've 3 actual rape victims casually accused of lying.

[Kel Varnsen]

45 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

It's terrifying to me how the idea of changing a story from consensual sex to rape is considered in any way common, but it has spread everywhere, the idea that girls have sex with someone and then later trap him by claiming it was rape because he didn't call the next day or they regret having the sex or whatever. 

Well to be fair, part of the reason it might be common is the fact that a classic piece of American literature is about a person being falsely accused and then convicted of rape and the Noble southern lawyer trying to defend him. It is considered so classic that even Canadian high school students like me had to read it. Although my point about wasn't how I thought it was common, just more logical than completely making up a story out of nothing

[sistermagpie]

25 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Well to be fair, part of the reason it might be common is the fact that a classic piece of American literature is about a person being falsely accused and then convicted of rape and the Noble southern lawyer trying to defend him. It is considered so classic that even Canadian high school students like me had to read it. Although my point about wasn't how I thought it was common, just more logical than completely making up a story out of nothing

But is it more logical? It's really not, imo. The situation in To Kill a Mockingbird isn't about the power of a false accusation, it's about racism. That dynamic of a black man being accused of sexual assault of a white woman (either by the woman herself or someone else) was very real but also very tied to racism. 

Where as here we're talking about it being logical to have consensual sex and then going to the authorities and reporting it as rape, which really isn't any more logical than claiming a phantom man you can't identify attacked you. In frat boy's the girl was using a rape accusation that she later declined to press charges for (but never recanted) to get back at him for not wanting to date her, in Judith's story Marie pretended she was attacked so people would feel sorry for her.  The frat boy's had the added claim that this was something that happened all the time.

[Racj82]

2 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

But is it more logical? It's really not, imo. The situation in To Kill a Mockingbird isn't about the power of a false accusation, it's about racism. That dynamic of a black man being accused of sexual assault of a white woman (either by the woman herself or someone else) was very real but also very tied to racism. 

Where as here we're talking about it being logical to have consensual sex and then going to the authorities and reporting it as rape, which really isn't any more logical than claiming a phantom man you can't identify attacked you. In frat boy's the girl was using a rape accusation that she later declined to press charges for (but never recanted) to get back at him for not wanting to date her, in Judith's story Marie pretended she was attacked so people would feel sorry for her.  The frat boy's had the added claim that this was something that happened all the time.

Obviously a completely false rape claim is not the standard of anything. It almost never happens. But, I don't like to speak in absolutes. Oh, no one ever makes false rape allegations. It's only this or that. It's just not true. Because almost nothing is 100 percent true.

As detectives and as law enforcement, every claim should be taken as fact, investigated properly and completely. 

A "unbelievable" story shouldn't be taken as something to be met with plain skeptisism and annoyance. Because the odds of if being false are so slim that it should be no one's go to thought process.

Again, I just don't like saying this like that never happens. If it has happened before, no matter what the percentage is, then it does. None of that should matter with law enforcement. Investigate the facts. Leave your bias out of it.

Edited September 18, 2019 by Racj82

[sistermagpie]

1 minute ago, Racj82 said:

Obviously a completely false rape claim is not the standard of anything. It almost never happens. But, I don't like to speak in absolutes. Oh, no one ever makes false rape allegations. It's only this or that. It's just not true. Because almost nothing is 100 percent true.

Absolutely--I would never say either case never happens. Or even that it never happens outside of such-and-such circumstance. Saying "nobody has ever made a false rape accusation" is just asking for people to provide examples--people have lied about every possible crime. 

[Court]

Less than 5% of reported rape cases are baseless and unfounded. It's rare that false reports happen. 

[Blue Plastic]

That guy (Eric, I think?) who works there at the housing for at-risk youth told Marie that "they" would do something about her being charged with making a false report "in the morning," but then apparently no one ever helped her with it because two weeks later she was down at the courthouse by herself trying to figure out what to do next.

[sistermagpie]

5 hours ago, Blue Plastic said:

That guy (Eric, I think?) who works there at the housing for at-risk youth told Marie that "they" would do something about her being charged with making a false report "in the morning," but then apparently no one ever helped her with it because two weeks later she was down at the courthouse by herself trying to figure out what to do next.

I would bet they just read the letter and saw that it told her to wait for further instructions and that was his help. Then she decided, luckily, on her own to go down there to find out what was happening.

[Blue Plastic]

7 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

I would bet they just read the letter and saw that it told her to wait for further instructions and that was his help. Then she decided, luckily, on her own to go down there to find out what was happening.

I suppose so.  It would have been nice if they'd helped her contact the court sooner, though.  She must have been terribly worried that whole time, waiting for word.

I don't remember what the heck that male counselor's name is because in watching more episodes last night I realized that "Eric" is Amber's boyfriend's name.

[Roseanna]

On 9/18/2019 at 9:59 PM, Racj82 said:

Obviously a completely false rape claim is not the standard of anything. It almost never happens. But, I don't like to speak in absolutes. Oh, no one ever makes false rape allegations. It's only this or that. It's just not true. Because almost nothing is 100 percent true.

As detectives and as law enforcement, every claim should be taken as fact, investigated properly and completely. 

A "unbelievable" story shouldn't be taken as something to be met with plain skeptisism and annoyance. Because the odds of if being false are so slim that it should be no one's go to thought process.

Again, I just don't like saying this like that never happens. If it has happened before, no matter what the percentage is, then it does. None of that should matter with law enforcement. Investigate the facts. Leave your bias out of it.

There was recently such a case in Finland. 

A teenage girl told the police that she had dated a quy and had temporarily broken with him. She had called his boyfriend's friend, met him and they had gone to his home, eated and then he raped her. The man said that she had never been in his home and they had never had sex, instead he had actually been with his work collegue. But the girl could describe his home and the police could prove that he had lied as his mobile phone at the time had been in the places as hers. So he was sentenced.

After the girl had become religious, she confessed the truth both to the police and in the interview in a newspaper: she had had consensual sex with the man she had charged of the rape. But then she had made up with her boyfriend and he had said that in his community (he and his friend were Kurds, if I remember right) it would be shame him to date a girl who had had sex with another man. So he made her to go to police. 

[Nire]

Everyone keeps saying that they don't normally charge for false reporting and it's making me wonder if the rapist works for that department.  

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I loved the scene where everyone was playing pool and sharing information. After all the time that Merritt Wever, Toni Collette, and Dale Dickey did trying to search for possible suspects in the system, it was nice to see them getting to talk to people who might have some leads.

The fraternity house mother seemed genuinely fond of the boys, so it was so sad to see her still visibly shaken by what happened to her.

Poor Marie. The system just isn't done screwing with her. I was glad that the woman she spoke with was kind to her (and found her a laywer).