In The Media: What Say You?

[Anduin]

1 hour ago, Haleth said:

I know the estate is living off continually repackaging every word the Professor wrote (milking a dead horse), but I will definitely be buying this ASAP, not only because it looks beautiful (itself and next to the other recent volumes) but because I find the history of Númenor to be fascinating.  $36?  Yikes.

$36? In Aussie money, it'll be $50 - $60. Maybe I'll get it for Christmas, make someone else pay.

1 minute ago, Welshman in Ca said:

Playing devils advocate here but why Harfeet? I can think of 2 reasons why Harfoot, when talking about names there are names like Lightfoot but I've never heard lightfeet and it's fantasy & would play by the writers rules anyway.

Basic grammar! We have feet, not foots!

[Welshman in Ca]

10 minutes ago, Anduin said:

$36? In Aussie money, it'll be $50 - $60. Maybe I'll get it for Christmas, make someone else pay.

Basic grammar! We have feet, not foots!

I'm not sure that applies to names, never mind fantasy names and the first point is also valid. How do you know the first Harfoot had 2 feet?

Can you tell we're all bored with waiting?

Edited August 28, 2022 by Welshman in Ca

[Anduin]

7 hours ago, Welshman in Ca said:

I'm not sure that applies to names, never mind fantasy names and the first point is also valid. How do you know the first Harfoot had 2 feet?

Can you tell we're all bored with waiting?

That's fair enough.

And yes, I'm fed up with waiting too. The music in the last trailer killed the anticipation. Bloody terrible choice. Now I just plain want to watch the show.

[Anduin]

Three Rings for the Elven-kings under the sky. Even though one wound up with Galadriel, who doesn't call herself a queen. And one with Gandalf, who is neither royalty or elf. Elrond got the other one, and you might call him a king too. Funny thing, the only unambiguous elven king at the time of LOTR is Legolas' father Thranduil. Did he get any magic jewellery? No he didn't.

[Haleth]

And that's what happens when you lag behind in the woods instead of networking with other important Elvish leaders.  No ring for you, mister!

[Anduin]

2 hours ago, Haleth said:

And that's what happens when you lag behind in the woods instead of networking with other important Elvish leaders.  No ring for you, mister!

It really is amazing that he's that far west. According to the Nature of Middle-earth book, Orome had to nudge elves the whole way from Cuivienen to the coast. The moment he left on other business, they'd settle down and not go any further. For all their battles and adventures later on, they were a bunch of wimps to start with.

[Anduin]

The Two Towers. Which two? There's Minas Morgul, Barad-dûr, Minas Tirith, Cirith Ungol, Orthanc, one on top of Moria, the remains of Amon Sul, and maybe even the ruins of Angband somewhere to the north. There might even be some I'm forgetting. I think it's the southern and middle of the three elven towers west of the Shire.

What's that? They don't actually feature in the plot and only appear on the map? I don't care. I'm sticking to my answer and that's that.

[Haleth]

22 hours ago, Anduin said:

Orome had to nudge elves the whole way from Cuivienen to the coast.  The moment he left on other business, they'd settle down and not go any further. 

Herding cats.

[AnimeMania]

On 8/29/2022 at 9:34 AM, Anduin said:

It really is amazing that he's that far west. According to the Nature of Middle-earth book, Orome had to nudge elves the whole way from Cuivienen to the coast. The moment he left on other business, they'd settle down and not go any further. For all their battles and adventures later on, they were a bunch of wimps to start with.

They never met a woods they didn't like.

[Anduin]

53 minutes ago, AnimeMania said:

They never met a woods they didn't like.

Not entirely. They were a little suspicious of Mirkwood, even before Sauron moved into the neighborhood.

[Anduin]

Ash nazg durbatulûk, ash nazg gimbatul,*
ash nazg thrakatulûk, agh burzum-ishi krimpatul.*

One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.
One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them,*
One Ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them,*
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.

[JTMacc99]

You know... I'm seeing a bunch of reviews pop up today from critics who saw the first two episodes. (Mostly very positive; the negative comments are hacky reviews that are measuring what they saw in the first two episodes against how much money Amazon is spending to make the series. Because THAT should factor into your opinion. If it were done on the cheap, it would be great, but because it was expensive, I'm unimpressed. 🙄) 

But I still can't get a title for episode 2. These people saw both episodes. Can't somebody tell me the name of the episode? What's the big secret?

[Constantinople]

The second installment of Lenny Henry's memoirs have been published, at least in the UK.

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2022/sep/09/rising-to-the-surface-by-lenny-henry-review-the-breakthrough-years

He plays Sadoc Burrows in the show.

[Anduin]

Ismael Cruz Cordova and Orlando Bloom, hanging out together!

https://www.instagram.com/p/CiqCXMTpuW3/

[Constantinople]

When Irish eyes aren't smiling

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2022/sep/28/irish-people-have-faced-centuries-of-discrimination-why-are-lord-of-the-rings-accents-so-offensively-bad

[Welshman in Ca]

10 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

When Irish eyes aren't smiling

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2022/sep/28/irish-people-have-faced-centuries-of-discrimination-why-are-lord-of-the-rings-accents-so-offensively-bad

It's the Guardian, what do you expect. My mother, born in Ireland and still with an Irish twang after living in Wales most of her life just thinks it's a generic Irish accent and has no view either way, as she said there's more important things to worry about.

As for Lenny Henry, he will always be a comedian to me, much like Hugh Laurie no matter how good their acting in other things may or may not be.

[Anduin]

Turns out, yes. Water can cause volcanic eruptions. A short but good read, and gets into why the writers chose that plot point.

Related, a very short video of someone throwing a jerry can of water into a volcano. So it's like that, scaled up to... Illuvatar only knows!

[AnimeMania]

‘The Rings of Power’ Season 2 Starts Production in the U.K.

[Camera One]

5 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

‘The Rings of Power’ Season 2 Starts Production in the U.K.

Please Amazon, have someone vet the scripts before they are filmed.  I really hope they learned from the problems of Season 1 and the showrunners don't just forge ahead arrogantly.

[PeterPirate]

1 hour ago, Camera One said:

Please Amazon, have someone vet the scripts before they are filmed.  I really hope they learned from the problems of Season 1 and the showrunners don't just forge ahead arrogantly.

Well, I am of the opposite opinion.  This show has to forge ahead the way it is or it will not see a second season.

When Wile E. Coyote walks off a cliff, he is able to keep going as long as he forges ahead towards his objective.  Only when he realizes what he is doing does he plummet into the canyon. 

Edited October 4, 2022 by PeterPirate

[quarks]

14 hours ago, Camera One said:

Please Amazon, have someone vet the scripts before they are filmed.  I really hope they learned from the problems of Season 1 and the showrunners don't just forge ahead arrogantly.

Thing is, the season 1 scripts were vetted - by the Tolkien Estate (though it's not clear how much of a role they had here other than the occasional veto), by New Line execs, by Amazon execs, by several attorneys, and various other people, including - supposedly - at least one HMH person. Vetting can find script issues, and sometimes does, but it equally often adds in network/executive comments/suggestions/orders that make things worse. It's not a cure-all. 

[Camera One]

5 hours ago, quarks said:

Thing is, the season 1 scripts were vetted - by the Tolkien Estate (though it's not clear how much of a role they had here other than the occasional veto), by New Line execs, by Amazon execs, by several attorneys, and various other people, including - supposedly - at least one HMH person. Vetting can find script issues, and sometimes does, but it equally often adds in network/executive comments/suggestions/orders that make things worse. It's not a cure-all. 

In most cases, network interference is not good.  Clearly, none of the people who vetted Season 1 were able to pinpoint the main flaws, or they actively contributed to these flaws.  But there have been rare cases where greater supervision resulted in a better product. 

All I hope is for Season 2, the showrunners are paying more attention to (or got some help on) dialogue writing, pacing, the plot making sense, characters being less one-note, etc.  Whether the series is faithful to lore is a separate issue from the series just being well written.  We're clearly not getting the former, so the only hope is for the latter.

Edited October 4, 2022 by Camera One

[Brn2bwild]

This Hollywood Reporter article gives me uneasy D&D from Game of Thrones vibes.  I hate the angle of "two white male novices get the keys to a massive empire and the luxury of learning the craft of making television along the way."  Hopefully these guys are more skilled than D&D and at least Tolkien's heirs are watching closely.  And at least we already know the ending.

[quarks]

From the above article:

"Salke says they’re happy with the show’s opening and points to the fact that U.S. ratings are only one slice of the show’s impact. “The show is performing unbelievably internationally,” she says. “So we’ve been feeling pretty great. To see the U.S. slice come out is just icing on the cake.”

(Jen Salke is the Head of Amazon Studios.)

[Anduin]

59 minutes ago, Brn2bwild said:

This Hollywood Reporter article gives me uneasy D&D from Game of Thrones vibes.  I hate the angle of "two white male novices get the keys to a massive empire and the luxury of learning the craft of making television along the way."  Hopefully these guys are more skilled than D&D and at least Tolkien's heirs are watching closely.  And at least we already know the ending.

I entirely see your point. However, they have experienced female writers, producers, and director, plus head honcho Jennifer Salke. Also, this isn't a setting that lends itself to gratuitous female exploitation. So far, so good.

Of course, everything could fall apart tomorrow. :)

[tv echo]

‘The Rings of Power’ Showrunners Break Silence on Backlash, Sauron and Season 2
BY JAMES HIBBERD    OCTOBER 5, 2022
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-features/the-rings-of-power-showrunners-interview-season-2-1235233124/ 

Quote

Since Amazon’s billion-dollar high fantasy launched Sept. 2, The Rings of Power has been blessed with strong critical acclaim (84 percent positive on Rotten Tomatoes) and dragged by online fan bashing (its audience score is 39 percent — which includes an unknown degree of “review bombing” at the hands of internet trolls). The show’s Nielsen viewership is formidable — its first two episodes were seen by roughly 12.6 million U.S. viewers across its first four days.
*  *  *
The first season’s episodes, the team believes, improve as the season progresses (the show’s Sept. 30 sixth episode, its most recent, is its highest-rated yet on IMDb). McKay says the aim of season two — which quietly started filming Oct. 3 at Bray Studios — is to be “bigger and better” on “every level … by an order of magnitude.”
*  *  *
Now that the production has found its stride post-pandemic, new episodes will likely be produced considerably faster than the debut batch. Still, McKay notes they expect to work on season 2 for “another couple years.” The first season famously racked up a bill for $700 million (including the rights), and the additional seasons are expected to cost considerably less.

[Grimnar]

16 hours ago, tv echo said:

‘The Rings of Power’ Showrunners Break Silence on Backlash, Sauron and Season 2
BY JAMES HIBBERD    OCTOBER 5, 2022
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-features/the-rings-of-power-showrunners-interview-season-2-1235233124/ 

I read the article and I have to say that they contradict themselves several times.
They talked as they showed map of Middle Earth in their pitch and as Jackson showed only small part of the world in movies but at the same time we saw so far only Lindon, Southland, Moria and Númenor(and usually just one set/place) when in first movie we saw Lorien, Rivendell, Moria, Shire, Bree, Mordor, Isengard.
Then they talk as they know Tolkien works, are super fans, etc but are basicaly using just names from his work and no events.
Also not confident that Abrams was their mentor as I'm afraid that we will get lot of mystery boxes and very few answers.
Amazon is kind of hoping that this will be big hit on par with Game of Thrones show but hired creators without much experience and creators themselves talk as this is all new and difficult task for them(and IMO first season so far showed that as writers/showrunners they are out of the depth).

Edited October 8, 2022 by Grimnar

[PeterPirate]

My college football team has a bye this week.  It's given me the change to catch up on my favorite YouTube reactors.  I first encountered them during the last part of Better Call Saul.    

Neither has read the books.  I'm not sure if Melia (the dark-haired one) has even seen the Jackson movies.  

They are very intelligent and don't look past the lack of logic ("Only three ships?"), but they also don't let that get in the way of getting into the story being told.  I like to think my daughter would react the same way to this show if she watched it.  

Here is their reaction to episode 6.

Edited October 8, 2022 by PeterPirate

[shrewd.buddha]

On 10/3/2022 at 11:43 PM, Camera One said:

Please Amazon, have someone vet the scripts before they are filmed.  I really hope they learned from the problems of Season 1 and the showrunners don't just forge ahead arrogantly.

Unfortunately the scripts can be solid but if certain scenes are cut or things are edited poorly, the final result can still be confusing or illogical.  They need better continuity coordinators and a team that reviews the final cut of the episodes. 

[tv echo]

The Rings of Power Cast Share who Has Read the Silmarillion at New York Comic Con 2022
Popverse   Oct 9, 2022

EW New York Comic Con 2022: 'Lord of the Rings: Rings of Power'
Entertainment Weekly   Streamed 2 days ago

[Camera One]

Interview with Charlie Vickers (Halbrand):

Quote

“I read The Silmarillion a few times, Unfinished Tales, The History of Middle-earth series and then you have The Hobbit and the trilogy, of course … What I found really useful were Tolkien’s letters – there are hundreds of them and there’s so much of his opinion of his world in them. Because Halbrand is an original character, you have to live and breathe Tolkien to get it right.”

Here's another actor from the show who read up on Tolkien as research for their roles.  Regardless of the quality of the writing, it makes me want to support these actors, who are trying their best.

[PeterPirate]

I avoided posting negative review videos while the show was airing, so as not to detract from people who wished to enjoy watching and commenting on it. 

But now that we are a week beyond the end of the first season, I think it time for a little collective catharsis for those of us who have had a negative reaction to the show and/or Amazon's marketing strategy.  

Here is, imo, the best and funniest commentator about Rings of Power.  He has nearly 1.5 million subscribers and this video alone has over 800k views.  

[PeterPirate]

Here are a couple of review videos by a woman named Amy Stewart.  Her channel is small and she has slightly over 2k subscribers.  I first found her several months back when she critiqued the new set of Star Wars movies.  She's a fan of the Wheel of Time book series but was unhappy with the Amazon adaptation.  

The first video is her review of the first two episodes, and is quite favorable.  After that she went dark, and posted her review of the first season just yesterday.  

I completely agree with her analysis of the show's treatment of the Silmarils.  

Edited October 22, 2022 by PeterPirate

[Welshman in Ca]

58 minutes ago, PeterPirate said:

Here are a couple of review videos by a woman named Amy Stewart.  Her channel is small and she has slightly over 2k subscribers.  I first found her several months back when she critiqued the new set of Star Wars movies.  She's a fan of the Wheel of Time book series but was unhappy with the Amazon adaptation.  

The first video is her review of the first two episodes, and is quite favorable.  After that she went dark, and posted her review of the first season just yesterday.  

I completely agree with her analysis of the show's treatment of the Silmarils.  

The biggest problem with her view is that she's using the books as a benchmark and expecting this to be an adaptation which it can't be for legal reasons.

There have been some things that I would question as a standalone series but overall it's much better viewing if you you've never read the books or can pretend that the books aren't there or the third category that I put myself in having read the books so long ago the I've forgotten a lot of it so it doesn't matter and I've enjoyed the series, even counting the bits I do remember.

You know what I think would make a good series, the real reasons that Amazon couldn't get the rights to use the books. There must be some interesting untold stuff from both sides of that one.

[Camera One]

It's interesting that there has been this huge proliferation of Youtube channels that review genre shows, and a subset just hates everything.  I only noticed it after Disney started putting out the Star Wars TV shows.  Maybe because I watched a few negative "Obi-Wan Kenobi" reviews, and then Youtube started suggesting all sorts of channels in the same vein, so that's when I noticed them.

For some of these channels, it seems they dial up the hate to get views and they had already jumped on the negative bandwagon with every trailer or casting news before the show even premiered.  Granted, some of them do raise valid criticisms and some are even quite interesting to listen to.

With "Rings of Power", there are also negative reviews who are coming from genuine Tolkien lore fans.  These I find more interesting to listen to, because they are comparing the show's plotlines with the stories from the books.  Though of course, this group tend to be more sensitive to even minor changes, plus as you said, we have to keep in mind the series literally cannot use many of the source books, so must diverge to some extent.

I've also watched a bunch of neutral reviews, which are basically recaps, and a few very positive reviews, which are interesting in a different way because they seem to draw deeper meaning that I doubt the series even intended.

1 hour ago, Welshman in Ca said:

but overall it's much better viewing if you you've never read the books or can pretend that the books aren't there

I agree with that.  Personally, I am okay with the show diverging from lore, but I still found the writing incredibly weak and sloppy, resulting in one-dimensional characters who I didn't fully like.  At the same time, I found the show engaging enough for me to be interested to continue watching.  It's like a 5 out of 10 show for me.  It was almost the type of show that I watch more because I am interested to hear what other people think than a show I enjoyed for its own sake.  As I have said before, the show isn't unsalvageable to me, and still has potential, but the thought and planning needs to improve drastically which I doubt since I'm not sure if these inexperienced showrunners are capable of better. 

Edited October 22, 2022 by Camera One

[quarks]

3 hours ago, Welshman in Ca said:

You know what I think would make a good series, the real reasons that Amazon couldn't get the rights to use the books. There must be some interesting untold stuff from both sides of that one.

The real reasons are pretty straightforward. When Amazon was trying to get the rights in 2017/2018, Christopher Tolkien was still alive - and Christopher Tolkien absolutely, 1000%, hated the Jackson films. Just hated them. He thought they were completely disrespectful to his father's legacy, and refused to even consider selling further film or television rights, no matter what amounts of money were offered.

Separately, his sister Priscilla Tolkien had a huge fight with WB, to the point of suing them when she believed that WB was using LOTR to promote gambling, something she was personally against. 

Christopher Tolkien lived until 2020; Priscilla Tolkien died earlier this year. 

By all accounts, the Tolkien grandchildren are less personally invested in Tolkien's legacy and more willing to work with Hollywood, which raises the real question - why Amazon wasn't just willing to wait a few more years, given that both Christopher and Priscilla Tolkien were in their 90s in 2017/2018. I've heard all sorts of speculation about this, but I've never heard a definite answer from anyone at Amazon or WB.

[Haleth]

I wonder if it would be possible for Amazon to renegotiate the deal with whoever is administering the estate now. Maybe there would be more flexibility now?

[BetterButter]

[PeterPirate]

An article about what to expect next season.

Spoiler

The Rings of Power’s Unseen Realm Explained

Disa, Arondir, and Miriel talk about their experiences. 

‘The Rings of Power’ Cast Members Talk Emerging From Racist Backlash

Despite the title, all three actors were diplomatic and did not speak directly about racism.  I hope this is a sign that Amazon is going to change direction about its marketing.  

Edited November 2, 2022 by PeterPirate

[PeterPirate]

Disparu responds again to the showrunners.

There was one part I found worth typing out, wherein Payne and McKay discuss the distribution of the rings to Men and Dwarves:

People don't make devil's bargains because they are stupid.  They make them because they are desperate.  A tall, mysterious, beautiful demigod shows up and says "Let me help with all your problems".  Who's going to fall for that?  

And later, Disparu brings up the Dallas shower scene.  

Edited November 5, 2022 by PeterPirate

[Camera One]

Not much activity on this forum since the beginning of this month.  I guess most of the people who planned to watch the show and comment on it already has.  

Prime Video has released behind-the-scenes "The Making Of..." videos for each episode if anyone wants to revisit them again (heh).  

https://variety.com/2022/tv/news/the-making-of-the-rings-of-power-prime-video-1235438879/

[Anduin]

52 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Not much activity on this forum since the beginning of this month.  I guess most of the people who planned to watch the show and comment on it already has.  

Prime Video has released behind-the-scenes "The Making Of..." videos for each episode if anyone wants to revisit them again (heh).  

https://variety.com/2022/tv/news/the-making-of-the-rings-of-power-prime-video-1235438879/

I find that I'm kind of over BTS or making of stuff. Back when the movies came out, it was all fresh and new. These days I'm familiar with all the tricks. Let me at least try to believe it was magic.

[Affogato]

On 8/28/2022 at 5:58 PM, Anduin said:

That's fair enough.

And yes, I'm fed up with waiting too. The music in the last trailer killed the anticipation. Bloody terrible choice. Now I just plain want to watch the show.

I'm guessing 'Harfoot' is an archaic form of 'Hair-foot' and there is probably a story behind it, and with all of the clan names. Maybe it is their name because that is what the big folk called them, but maybe that family has a story about their particularly hairy extremities.

this show was a lot more fun to talk about when it was happening, and there really isn't much to say now that it is over for a couple of years....

Edited November 23, 2022 by Affogato

[cambridgeguy]

At least one character will be looking a bit different next season

It does make me wonder - how many of the cast did such a memorable job that a recast would cause a major outcry.  I thought the actors were fine, but given the large ensemble most of them didn't have a significant number of stand out moments on screen.

[Anduin]

2 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

At least one character will be looking a bit different next season

It does make me wonder - how many of the cast did such a memorable job that a recast would cause a major outcry.  I thought the actors were fine, but given the large ensemble most of them didn't have a significant number of stand out moments on screen.

Nothing against the new guy, but I liked Mawle as Adar. Ah well.

[Haleth]

That’s too bad. Mawle is a wonderful actor. 

[PeterPirate]

Ben Daniels has had a pretty extensive career.  He's also quite old for this cast.    

[cambridgeguy]

Ben Daniels could be a good choice for

Spoiler

Cirdan.  Now that the elven rings are made he should be showing up.  Plus people who know more about the lore than I do can argue about whether or not he should look old(ish) in the Second Age.

[akiss]

I'm so excited! I think the new cast looks amazing. 

[Camera One]

On 12/1/2022 at 1:16 PM, Anduin said:

Nothing against the new guy, but I liked Mawle as Adar. Ah well.

Mawle was definitely one of the more memorable.  Maybe this means Adar is the real Sauron, shape-shifting into someone else.