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Spoiler Discussion Thread: The Final Countdown

scarynikki12

By scarynikki12
in Arrow

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Velocity23

Velocity23

21 minutes ago, Trisha said:

I wonder if Colin and Colton are just there to shoot interview clips of the retrospective? Although with the S1 bunker and suit, I wouldn’t be surprised if the finale had flashbacks, since they were such a big part of the series. Maybe Oliver “dies” in the crossover, ep 9 is about the birds while everyone thinks he’s dead, and ep 10 is him having flashbacks/visions before being brought back to life?

I dont think the last picture is from yesterday. We seen he was wearing different suits and last wednesday he said that its his last day wearing an arrow suit. 

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tv echo
tv echo

You're welcome, @AveMaria30! Thank you, everyone, for making this Arrow forum a place I've wanted to visit and participate in over the past several years. Although I'll continue to post anything Arrow

Velocity23
Velocity23

Seems Emily is coming back

KenyaJ
KenyaJ

I never had any doubt, but I'm so, so excited. Best news ever!

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

AS was a guest on this AfterBuzz TV show after 803 aired (when Zoe was killed by JJ) - there were three interviewers (co-hosts)...

Andrea Sixtos guests on Arrow Season 8 Episode 3 “Leap of Faith” | AfterBuzz TV
AfterBuzz TV   Oct. 29, 2019

-- In response to one interviewer asking why AS had to leave Arrow and another interviewer saying he felt honored to have her "farewell interview," AS: "Yeah, it's actually kind of perfect. I mean, the timing couldn't have been more solid."

-- Interviewer: "You could come back?" AS: "I don't know. We'll see... We'll see. We'll see."

-- AS: "I remember that moment very, very clearly. Right after we shot, um, it was very emotional, as you saw there. We really had to get to a pretty dark place... You see Zoe taking the leap of faith for her team, um, even though she didn't agree with this mission or this step, um, in their mission. She went along with it because she really - I mean, she has to stick to the team and, um, and be there for them. And, um, she had a chance to save one of her teammates and, although she did go down, she went down a hero. And, um, I think that's very honorable of her. And, um, it's really sad. It is really sad. I mean, I love Zoe... She's part of me now... I definitely had, like - I grieved her right after I finished shooting that scene... Yeah, it was really freakin' emotional. I'm almost gonna cry now."

-- On when and how she found out her character was going to die, AS: "Well, I found out, um, before we started shooting. Um, showrunner gave me a call and was just like, 'oh, hey, so this is - this is the fate of Zoe in the third episode. You know, she ends up dying, but in a really cool, heroic way.'  And, you know, yeah, I mean, it was a shock. It was a big shock... I didn't know prior to this season. But, um... I was okay with it. I'm okay with it. Because, you know, um, she really played a really solid, solid role in - in the life, um, of this new world in 2040. And, uh, you really see her be the hero that she had - she always wanted to be and to follow in her father's footsteps and, um, really make him proud. And, um, heart-breaking last words that she had at the end, 'tell my father that I love him, that I'm sorry for everything,' um, because she - she wanted to live on and really, um, fulfill his legacy. And, um, at that moment she felt like a failure because she didn't, you know, in her eyes, win, succeed. So that's really heartbreaking, but I think, uh - I think fans - I think they're gonna be pretty heartbroken."

-- After interviewers speculated about Rene finding out about Zoe's death and then raising Zoe differently, which would affect the future, so she could come back, AS: "I have no idea what you guys are talking about. (Puts hand over her face)... Everyone's going to have their theories about what happens. But I have no idea what happens. And, um, you're going to have to wait and see." 
 

Edited by tv echo
lemotomato

lemotomato

1 hour ago, insomniadreams88 said:

I’m sure if there’s a funeral for Oliver, they’ll expect us to find it so sad but if Felicity isn’t in the scene, I’m really not going to care about Dinah, Laurel and Rene grieving. (Though I won’t care about their grief either way.)

I expect Oliver to get a grand funeral and he deserves to have nice things finally said about him by the other characters, but yeah, I doubt I’ll feel sad about it. The only characters whose reactions I care about are Diggle and Felicity’s, not the ones who shit talked, betrayed, and tried to kill him. 

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insomniadreams88

insomniadreams88

9 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

I expect Oliver to get a grand funeral and he deserves to have nice things finally said about him by the other characters, but yeah, I doubt I’ll feel sad about it. The only characters whose reactions I care about are Diggle and Felicity’s, not the ones who shit talked, betrayed, and tried to kill him. 

Yep, but I feel like most of the speeches will ring false like Rene’s in 609. 

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Featherhat

Featherhat

I would have assumed the funeral would be at the end of COIE like Stein's so everyone could be there, unless they're still doing pick ups. Or maybe they wanted to have the "send off" in the finale but yeah "Dark Knight Returns" it up.

If EBR isn't there then at least we know/think Felicity is most likely getting some sort of reunion scene. IE the scenes SA was shooting with the non series regular(s). 

insomniadreams88

insomniadreams88

1 hour ago, CabotCove said:

tumblr_inline_nvvxdeaBOv1shrb8p_250.gifv

He better not be missing this one, Kara too.

It would depend on how the crossover leaves him. If he disappears and doesn’t return yet ... actually, let’s have him show up anyway so it can be like the scene in this GIF where he had speed when he shouldn’t have based on what was happening on The Flash (right? Or am I remembering incorrectly?). 

Featherhat

Featherhat

Sounds like it could be a big Endgame Style Funeral but if Colin is filming the same one then it could be the "difficult logistics" end scene they were previously talking about. But I don't think they'd do it with everyone available there, whatever it is supposed to be. 

Or the funeral and what Colin might be filming could be completely different. 

CabotCove

CabotCove

Quote

It would depend on how the crossover leaves him. If he disappears and doesn’t return yet actually, let’s have him show up anyway so it can be like the scene in this GIF where he had speed when he shouldn’t have based on what was happening on The Flash (right? Or am I remembering incorrectly?).  .

Oh yeah, I guess I wouldn't mind a similar scene like the season 4 one, if he shows up late because he was in some limbo and couldn't return in time. 

Dont remember much what was happening in the Flash at the time, really.

CabotCove

CabotCove

(edited)

Arrow isnt a movie, its a show with 4/5 shows in its ongoing universe and a potential new spin off waiting in the wings. An open ending doesn't really work here.  If they are faking his death, that would be such an insult to the viewers IMO.  They would be setting themselves up for one of the worst finales in TV history. 

What would be the point of a hero statue and having everyone dressed up for a funeral, for someone who is clearly alive...And then go on to have all these characters in ongoing universe believing he is dead, mourning him forever. 

Edited by CabotCove
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lemotomato

lemotomato

(edited)
10 minutes ago, Trisha said:

It looks like KM was shooting from a scene in Mia’s bedroom? And CL was there? Not sure what it could mean.

https://twitter.com/ensm31/status/1194834062629847042?s=21

Wasn't CL on set when 7.22 was filming too? And it ended up meaning nothing.

I don't think it was ever mentioned on the show that the Queen mansion burned down, so they could have retconned that just like they Bronze Tiger's death in the tie-in comics. It's possible Mia moves back in the future. 

Edited by lemotomato
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

21 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

Wasn't CL on set when 7.22 was filming too? And it ended up meaning nothing.

I don't think it was ever mentioned on the show that the Queen mansion burned down, 

They showed the burned mansion in the background when Emiko was visiting Robert’s grave last season (not that they still couldn’t reset it somehow). 

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Featherhat

Featherhat

I'm not sure they'd change things that much that Mia would be growing up in the Queen mansion or even with both parents when there's a spin off (probably) with her name on it and this season is leading up to her taking on the GA mantle officially. But it's possible something big changes. 

3 hours ago, CabotCove said:

Arrow isnt a movie, its a show with 4/5 shows in its ongoing universe and a potential new spin off waiting in the wings. An open ending doesn't really work here.  If they are faking his death, that would be such an insult to the viewers IMO.  They would be setting themselves up for one of the worst finales in TV history. 

What would be the point of a hero statue and having everyone dressed up for a funeral, for someone who is clearly alive...And then go on to have all these characters in ongoing universe believing he is dead, mourning him forever. 

They already hinted he was "dead but not dead" in the FFs ending last year. Albeit those might have changed now they had EBR back for a few scenes and although they were originally set post COIE that might also change. I don't think we're getting a Dark Knight Returns ending as such - in hiding with his family, but I do think it's going to end in a way where Oliver is "dead" but not really most sincerely dead ie the much talked about Paradise/pocket dimension, happily in the afterlife, Ascension as a paragon or similar, or even The New Monitor if you believe the extremely suspect "leaks" from a few weeks ago. 

As for a big funeral- best of both worlds big send off/statue for the character that started it all and he's not in a position to visit and say hi every now and then. Just like they apparently want Barry to actually die/vanish but obviously he's not going to stay that way. What's the point of all the Flash characters mourning if he's just going to come back fairly quickly? I know it's different but still. 

I'll be much more surprised if he's dead in the ground forever dead and they only brought EBR back for a flashback and mourning after 7x22. 

Primal Slayer

Primal Slayer

I think they'll stick to the "paradise dimension" but change it up a little since they'll obviously want SA to come back unless they just do a past Oliver to present day. Mia will probably get an adjusted origin, the biggest giveaway will be if she keeps going by Mia Smoak or it changes to Mia Queen/Mia Smoak-Queen.

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RS3

RS3

6 hours ago, CabotCove said:

Arrow isnt a movie, its a show with 4/5 shows in its ongoing universe and a potential new spin off waiting in the wings. An open ending doesn't really work here.  If they are faking his death, that would be such an insult to the viewers IMO.  They would be setting themselves up for one of the worst finales in TV history. 

What would be the point of a hero statue and having everyone dressed up for a funeral, for someone who is clearly alive...And then go on to have all these characters in ongoing universe believing he is dead, mourning him forever. 

You can see the symbolism in the Green Arrow's death if you want and still keep the man behind the mask alive. They've made a point in separating the two in the early seasons so there. His legacy will carry on through the heroes he's helped create and through his children. And honestly, it's not like he's close with the other characters in the on going dctv shows, except maaaybe barry who he sees once a year (apparently).

Fake out deaths are very popular tropes for good reason. It give the emotional resonance of saying goodbye to a beloved character without betraying their own journey with a lazy ending. So, I personally don't see this scenario as an open ending. It's a happy ending through and through. 

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CabotCove

CabotCove

(edited)
Quote

but I do think it's going to end in a way where Oliver is "dead" but not really most sincerely dead ie the much talked about Paradise/pocket dimension,happily in the afterlife, Ascension as a paragon or similar, 

Yeah that I get, Im sure there is likely to be some supernatural things that will occur. But if he is going to some afterlife, then he is kind of dead. Its after life.

I get what you are saying "dead but not dead" but I think thats going to be confusing to viewers. The series finale will need to be more clearer on that. Viewers need to know, what killed him and how, what happened to his body and where is he [soul] now and after. Some kind of clear closure.

Edited by CabotCove
lemotomato

lemotomato

10 hours ago, CabotCove said:

Arrow isnt a movie, its a show with 4/5 shows in its ongoing universe and a potential new spin off waiting in the wings. An open ending doesn't really work here.  If they are faking his death, that would be such an insult to the viewers IMO.  They would be setting themselves up for one of the worst finales in TV history. 

What would be the point of a hero statue and having everyone dressed up for a funeral, for someone who is clearly alive...And then go on to have all these characters in ongoing universe believing he is dead, mourning him forever. 

An open ending totally works for me. I don't see how it "insults the viewers" to let Oliver live out his life in peace with his family after everything he's been through.

If he fakes his death and leaves with Felicity and his kids, he'll tell the people that matters most-- Diggle, Thea-- about it. And he doesn't owe shit to anyone else.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

(edited)
10 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

If he fakes his death and leaves with Felicity and his kids, he'll tell the people that matters most-- Diggle, Thea-- about it. And he doesn't owe shit to anyone else.

Yeah, I don't care about the wider Arrowverse - I don't watch any of those shows. I care about Oliver and his family and parts of his team, so as long as they're happy, I'm happy. 

Edited by apinknightmare
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Featherhat

Featherhat

2 hours ago, Trisha said:
 

I'm kind of assuming this is Oliver and Felicity right? Any dissenting opinions? 

Unless it's with the kids or the team or what's left of it. But I think they'd want it to be Oliver assuming he's not really most sincerely dead. 

People have been talking about a DKR type ending for years, since it started and started "homaging" Nolan, I don't think it would be controversial but I don't think it's going to be directly raising his kids happily etc. 

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Trisha

Trisha

31 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

I'm kind of assuming this is Oliver and Felicity right? Any dissenting opinions? 

Yeah, I'm assuming Olicity or maybe OTA.

46 minutes ago, Chaser said:

Was anyone else expecting more from the final day? I thought there would be a group shot or a SA/DR photo. For sure an EBR sighting, since they announced her early. 

It's really weird that there's been no EBR pics at all, even though we know she was on set. I wonder if the way she looked is why she was kept hidden (like maybe she's in the old age makeup, and the final scene picks up right after she walked through the portal)? I'm expecting they'll hold the traditional OTA pic and Amell's teary FB Live until finale day. 

I kind of love that I have zero idea how they're going to wrap this show up. Beyond being pretty convinced that Oliver "dies" and then comes back some sort of way (all the phoenix symbolism in 803 seemed to be deliberate), I have no clue what the final scene could be. 

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CabotCove

CabotCove

(edited)
Quote

An open ending totally works for me. I don't see how it "insults the viewers" to let Oliver live out his life in peace with his family after everything he's been through.

Im not always against open endings, I think they work in some shows, in some cases. Im clearly taking about lying about"fake death" and its (potential) machinations being the insulting part.. Its kind of a moot point to me anyway, I dont even believe there is fake death gimmicks to begin with. 

Edited by CabotCove
RS3

RS3

1 hour ago, Josh371982 said:

Could it be possible in the reset that Mia is more like her father was before the Gambit being blown up BUT shes one of the people after Crisis ends that retains her memories and for the Spinoff shes Socailte by day, Taking up her father's mantle at night? 

I think they'll do some version of this.

There's no logical reason for her to move in by herself in a big mansion unless her parents also lived there. And her room seems like it has a vanity unit and cloud posters and pastel bed sheets... which is so unlike the Mia we know. Idk those details could be nothing and everything. 

tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

One good thing about Arrow ending is that I never have to read another tweet by this papp...

Quote

Arrow films a a scene for episode 810, the series finale with a whole lot of people.
*  *  *
Yesterday I caught Arrow filming in a place fans are somewhat familiar with. Arrow had a rare location shoot for their 10th, and final episode of season 8. THEIR FINAL SEASON. This shoot was in Crab Park in Vancouver.
*  *  *
But on this day, they were filming a little bit further in the park. Closer to the pier that juts out from the shore of the park.

Very little is known to those outside of the set, as it was in a location that was difficult to get a good view on. I know, I spent 2+ hours walking around looking for the best vantage point.

I can confirm Juliana Harkavy was there, as she posted an IG Story showing the exact opposite view I had. Outside of that, who knows? All I do know is, there was so many trailers there for cast, I lost track of how many there were. I would say easily 20, possibly 30?... which is A LOT for a film set of any size. James Bamford is directing the episode, which is titled "Fadeout" and he tweeted this, and I can definitely say "I" have never been to a set with so many cast trailers.
*  *  *
The one thing you CAN make out however, is that during the filming there is something under a blanket for much of the evening. During the 4 hours they shot there, about 3 1/2 hours of it, that blanket you see wrapped around something in a couple of the photos was up. But for breif moments throughout the evening, the blanket would be removed for a scene, and we would see that under it was..... a statue of The Green Arrow. The base that it sat on was several feet high itself, so it towered above the cast & crew on hand for the scene.

Of course, when they wrapped, it was taken away. So when I went by a bit after that to try and get a closer look. No luck.

img-5519_orig.jpg

img-5904.jpg

Edited by tv echo
tv echo

tv echo

If you listen to this video, CH was apparenty in his trailer on Monday (Nov. 11) and got summoned to go answer media questions on set - so we can probably expect a lot of published producer/cast interviews prior to the series finale...

COLTON HAYNES PUTS CHAPSTICK ALL OVER HIS FACE ! || Instagram live
Teh Botol   Nov. 12, 2019

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

I didn't quote the entire interview, so you may wish to read the rest of it...

Charlie Barnett Talks Joining Arrow, the Impact of Russian Doll, and More
By JENNA ANDERSON - November 13, 2019
https://comicbook.com/dc/2019/11/13/charlie-barnett-interview-arrow-spoilers-john-diggle-jr-russian-doll-you/ 

Quote

... While the most recent episode of Arrow potentially threw a wrench in J.J.'s future villainy, it seems like the character - who has been confirmed to appear in the "Green Arrow and the Canaries" backdoor pilot later this season - has more story to tell.
*  *  *
How did it feel coming onto Arrow, not only as this legacy character carrying on the mantle of Deathstroke and John and Lyla but also as someone coming in on the final season?
It's double-fold -- kind of scaring and also exciting. The show has such an incredible following, it has such a great community. And it's a community that's stuck by it, and also demands that it be as good as it was -- as good as it continues to be, I should say. So that's a great amount of pressure, I think, to put on anybody walking into something that is not your own.

I will say I felt a little relief because I knew that I wasn't necessarily taking over a realm of the character. I was a new form of Deathstroke. I'm a modern, I guess a futuristic -- I don't know how much I can give away. I always get so scared in situations like this. But he's a new age, maybe like baby Deathstroke. I got a chance to kind of restructure who this person was, and who this person would be within J.J.'s context. It made it a little freeing and also so much fun, because this story is connected to so much family, and that kind of stuff creates an emotional well of choices.
*  *  *
Obviously, J.J. has gone on a really dark path this season. When we most recently saw him in the series, he killed Zoe Ramirez (Andrea Sixtos). What has it been like playing a character who is on such a dark path?
It's so funny, because beyond being a question of context and where you fall on sides. We were given this incredible lesson at school and college from one of my professors, Becky Guy. She said, "Never judge your characters. Never, ever, ever judge your characters. It doesn't matter if they're a murderer. You can't judge because you're entering into their psyche, hopefully, and within safe parameters for yourself." I kind of took that to heart. I don't see him as this psychopath. I see him as a bad guy. I see him recognizing his villainy. But I see him doing it for a logical reason in his mind, as much as Charlie Barnett doesn't agree with those choices and the actions in which he's doing it.

He amps it up to the dangerous, if not unforgivable, mark, but he's doing it for a solid reason. He felt abandoned, he felt wronged. He feels like there is this wave of vigilante justice that is causing butterfly effects around the city, around this world, and those butterfly effect and results have ramifications. Each one of those ramifications, be it, "Cool, my dad was a villain, but you just killed him, Green Arrow, and you killed him in the worst way." Or, "My mother was trying to do something different and you saw that it was going to be a destructive thing, and you killed her too, Green Arrow." And how did that then affect that world for them?

I think a lot of people will say, "All right, you're grasping at straws." But you've got to find a way, okay people? And luckily, I think J.J.'s situation really extended from seeing that his father and his mother didn't give him the upbringing that he desired. They paid too much attention, and I guess risked more of their relationship with their birth son, in order to care for the upbringing of Connor [Hawke (Joseph David-Jones)]. That has a result. And on top of it, they also take Connor under their wing, they make him a vigilante as well. So the thing that was pulling them away from J.J. in the first place, they almost gift to the son that was the problem. I think that stings him and in a really, really personal and continuing kind of way. He can't let go.

Where do you kind of hope that J.J.'s arc goes from here? Could you see him possibly getting redeemed in some sort of way?
The fun part, as I said at the beginning, of doing these kinds of shows is the fantasy element. It can go anywhere and everywhere, and it usually does. And luckily, we have a really responsive and just downright great group of writers. They have a hard task of reining in this world or these worlds. And I think on Arrow specifically, it may be the context that Green Arrow isn't a superhero, he's a man. He is human. He has had some aid in doing superhuman things. But the best part about this is it still resides within humanity. And so much of our relationships, our emotional life within it can balance in that. But then you add this fantasy element and sh*t can go crazy. So I can't say too much, but I will say J.J. has some ups and downs. You'll see him all over the map.

Edited by tv echo
tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

FWIW...

Arrow’s FINAL Scene Teaser! Flash Cameo and More! - Arrow Season 8
Pagey   Nov. 14, 2019

-- Pagey: "Speaking of Felicity, um, I don't know if this is 100% true, but people are saying actually Emily Bett Rickards only shot one scene, that she was only there for one day of filming, which is this last day of Arrow. I don't know if they would do that. I think they might have her there for more than one scene. But maybe they just have it where she just comes back to honor what's happening, which we will go over in a second, um, and then she just goes."

-- Regarding Canadagraphs' posting pics of a Green Arrow statue with a bunch of people gathered around it, Pagey: "But in regards to specific people who are in this finale, going off the set photos, it does look like the Flash is there in his suit as well, because it does look like Roy Harper/Arsenal is there in his suit as well... I say the Flash and Arsenal specifically because they're red so it's easy to pick up. But we know that Sara Lance is there... Caity Lotz put heaps of stuff on her instagram story with her filming Arrow. Um, Joe Dinicol is back as Rory Regan AKA Ragman. Don't know if he's back as Rory Regan or as Ragman... Thea Queen is back. Obviously I mentioned Felicity. Apparently Nyssa al Ghul, um, is back as well. Um, there isn't any physical proof of that, but it seems she is back from what people are saying. So maybe don't treat that as a concrete information. But, that's what people are saying." Pagey then said that it's possible other people from the other Arrowverse shows could be there, but he doesn't know yet."

-- Pagey: "Now Caity Lotz did post something on instagram story which showed a scene with Katherine McNamara in her bed."

Edited by tv echo
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Featherhat

Featherhat

(edited)
5 hours ago, RS3 said:

I think they'll do some version of this.

There's no logical reason for her to move in by herself in a big mansion unless her parents also lived there. And her room seems like it has a vanity unit and cloud posters and pastel bed sheets... which is so unlike the Mia we know. Idk those details could be nothing and everything. 

That might kind of fit if they want a "party girl by day, GA by night" vibe and would also fit with JDJ saying Connor was very different post COIE - he could go the other way to current self and do a Nora West-Allen by wiping his adoption away. Although fitting all that into two episodes starting right after COIE with the BDP along with everything else that implies is a hell of a lot. Although the spin off would have more time to explore it. It's pretty clear they wanted that pic of Mia in the bedroom out there to get people talking. 

It does seem a shame IF these kids (except maybe Mia?) loose their memories of everything, after the oh so awesome Time Leap and probably Mia being there when Oliver dies. Of course if she does amalgamate all timeline memories that's a different set of issues.

With EBR not being pictured on set I assume she's either not in the big "funeral" scene and was just filming on indoor sets elsewhere (with SA?) or/and what she looks like is a spoiler. Whatever Pagey is currently guessing or not I don't think we can say she's in one scene or ten. My guess would be closer to one or two, probably the last or 2nd to last if not.

Edited by Featherhat
Featherhat

Featherhat

26 minutes ago, way2interested said:

It's not really a "they." CL posted it. 

Yeah I know but if it was a big set secret she wouldn't have. Unlike various outdoor location shots where they know the paps are perched, they can control it. And I know it's only us spoiler freaks who speculate on what it means, but still. 

way2interested

way2interested

(edited)
1 hour ago, Featherhat said:

Yeah I know but if it was a big set secret she wouldn't have.

Lol she totally would have. Cast have accidentally posted huge set secrets tons of times over the years but were so short sighted they didn't figure that people would see things.

Edited by way2interested
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