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Spoiler Discussion Thread: The Final Countdown

scarynikki12

By scarynikki12
in Arrow

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tv echo
tv echo

You're welcome, @AveMaria30! Thank you, everyone, for making this Arrow forum a place I've wanted to visit and participate in over the past several years. Although I'll continue to post anything Arrow

Velocity23
Velocity23

Seems Emily is coming back

KenyaJ
KenyaJ

I never had any doubt, but I'm so, so excited. Best news ever!

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

2 hours ago, Featherhat said:

The setting for the spin off is up in the air a lot more now they're all around, though I still lean towards more of a future than the present. 

Yeah. I think they're going to wind up in some 3rd location. Not our present, not their future, but somewhere else. I'm not really sure what to make of the "new and improved" and "futuristic buildings" reference in the part of the script Katie posted on instagram for episode 9 otherwise. I'd prefer that - I'd like their future to be erased and our present to look good enough that they aren't really needed to stick around (provided the timeline is changed to the point where Oliver and Felicity actually get to raise Mia together). Since the kids would be displaced at that point, why not just stick them somewhere new. Not sure what Dinah and Laurel's story would be for winding up with them, but maybe that's the Monitor's doing. 

Featherhat

Featherhat

In the end I'm not sure anything is going to make actual sense, it's all going to be timey-wimey handwavium. The shows that want to reboot some storylines and characters will do so, those they don't will stay the same for reasons...

Even if EBR doesn't film anything else, they might use her jump through the portal in a new context for a "happy" ending even if that timeline no longer exists. I'm still raising my eyebrows over Conor changing a lot though, especially if they don't go "home" between now and then. They have to be in a place where he and the rest can actually fight, right? They won't all be nu!Zari's?

There's some random guy on twitter, (I know) I've seen posted in a few places, who claims to have worked on COIE and says among other things that Oliver becomes The Monitor during the crisis when Lyla kills the original. That would add up with it being option C rather than just A or B for Oliver but doesn't really fit with anything else we know. It would mean he could put his kids down in a better place though. 

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RS3

RS3

12 hours ago, Featherhat said:

There's some random guy on twitter, (I know) I've seen posted in a few places, who claims to have worked on COIE and says among other things that Oliver becomes The Monitor during the crisis when Lyla kills the original. That would add up with it being option C rather than just A or B for Oliver but doesn't really fit with anything else we know. It would mean he could put his kids down in a better place though. 

Yeah I read sth similar but who would be the guy who took Felicity to Oliver in the finale? I couldn't imagine them messing with Felicity's exit unless she comes back. I read another fan theory that Oliver ends up being Spectre (granted the originally casted Spectre dies) which would make Oliver essentially a god. Option C. 

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Featherhat

Featherhat

(edited)
7 hours ago, RS3 said:

Yeah I read sth similar but who would be the guy who took Felicity to Oliver in the finale? I couldn't imagine them messing with Felicity's exit unless she comes back. I read another fan theory that Oliver ends up being Spectre (granted the originally casted Spectre dies) which would make Oliver essentially a god. Option C. 

I still think "paradise dimesion" is an option C is if A and B are "alive" or "dead" but becoming "something else" is obviously on the table for Oliver. For any of the season 7 FFs I think there's going to be a lot of "Timey Wimey involved as I said, because that was definitely supposed to be post Crisis last year and wouldn't have Berlanti signed off on things like The Monitor, if not Felicity's exit itself? I think since it's probably going to change they will say Felicity's exit is still somehow intact IMHO or give it a twist using the footage they have. There's been a lot of focus on Felicity and Olicity for someone who's gone if there was no intention of giving them a "happy" ending somehow, even if EBR isn't coming back or hasn't filmed anything last year. 

As for EBR even if she is filming a cameo they might not spot her, no one got Willa on set for 803, people thought it was 4 and beyond and that was from a trailer door not call sheets or pics. I kind of think she won't but I hope to be pleasantly surprised. 

re AS. Well she does seem to be in the backdoor pilot from her own SM posts but gone until after COIE maybe? It doesn't seem like it was a fake out but I thought if ep 6 is actually a "Reset" then maybe she was around more. I'm curious to find out if the lady they were all photographed with is actually in the pilot as well. 

Edited by Featherhat
Chaser

Chaser

(edited)
3 hours ago, way2interested said:

No sign of SA either since he's in Hawaii right now, too, then.

I know DR said they didn’t film additional scenes with EBR during 7x22 but I don’t quite believe him.

If they did, I could see SA having a lighter load for the finale and it would explain his look. 

Of course, missing the first day doesn’t mean lighter load.
 

Edited by Chaser
way2interested

way2interested

19 minutes ago, Chaser said:

Of course, missing the first day doesn’t mean lighter load.

Yeah, and it doesn't necessarily mean that EBR isn't in 810 was my joke. XD Yeah, SA will probably film all next week and was probably scheduled to get just the rest of the week off anyway since the first day landed on Halloween.

RS3

RS3

18 hours ago, Featherhat said:

There's been a lot of focus on Felicity and Olicity for someone who's gone if there was no intention of giving them a "happy" ending somehow, even if EBR isn't coming back or hasn't filmed anything last year. 

As for EBR even if she is filming a cameo they might not spot her, no one got Willa on set for 803, people thought it was 4 and beyond and that was from a trailer door not call sheets or pics. I kind of think she won't but I hope to be pleasantly surprised. 

If it's a quick final cameo to complete Oliver's happy ending, she might only be on set for day. It could go either way but I'm keeping my expectations in check. I just hope the script MG planned w/o EBR isn't drastically different from the scenario he planned if she were to come back. 

Aside from Colton, both Rick and Joe, aka ragman, were filming for the first day of the finale. I noticed actors with senior status (mainly SA) have a filming schedule less spreaded out so that's why he might still vacationing. Guests usually bookend filming days and weeks if they have solo scenes. Of course it also depends on location and stuff. 

tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Arrow - Episode 8.05 - Prochnost - Press Release
Posted by SpoilerTV at November 01, 2019
https://www.spoilertv.com/2019/11/arrow-episode-805-prochnost-press.html

Quote

DON’T LET YOUR PAST DEFINE YOU – Upon learning the key to oppose The Monitor (guest star LaMonica Garrett), Oliver (Stephen Amell) and team return to Russia on a mission to gather the necessary materials. Connor (Joseph David-Jones) reunites with a figure from his past. Laura Belsey directed the episode written by Benjamin Raab & Deric A. Hughes (#805). Original airdate 11/19/2019.

Edited by tv echo
tv echo

tv echo

Vdeo was probably recorded on Oct. 30...

RG: "What's up, y'all? I just wanted to shout out -"
Joe Dinicol: "Is this video?"
RG: "Yeah, this is a video. I just wanted to let y'all know that Ragdog is back."
JD: "Back!"
RG: "Back! I just want to tell you right now... Tomorrow we're going to shoot this Ragdog scene."

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Featherhat

Featherhat

(edited)

Yay! I was being pessimistic in case it didn't happen to not get my hopes up or spend the next few months hoping she just hadn't been papped on set etc. But I'm obvious very glad she's coming back and glad they announced it. 

I was becoming more and more certain they had to if the future is changing (and if that sketchy rumour is at all true and Oliver becomes nu!monitor) because it would be difficult to keep that ending entirely intact, even though it served very well for 7x22.

Of course those might not be the scenes she's coming back for but at least they have the chance if needed. It also would have felt quite hollow if Oliver is spending a lot of time thinking about her and going on with the promise of being reunited if we never saw it. And presumably she's also going to come up for the kids as well. I mean it doesn't guarantee a reunion between them or between her and the kids which is more up in the air, but it would seem like they want to, otherwise they wouldn't bothered.  

5 hours ago, RS3 said:

If it's a quick final cameo to complete Oliver's happy ending, she might only be on set for day. It could go either way but I'm keeping my expectations in check. I just hope the script MG planned w/o EBR isn't drastically different from the scenario he planned if she were to come back. 

I'm assuming it's a similar scenario to be honest or at least I also hope that, even now she's definitely coming back. Maybe with a couple of added scenes or they would have used old footage spliced in to give roughly the same effect (if that's possible). MG was talking about his amazing finale scene at SDCC when they were also talking about hoping to have EBR back so I don't think where they or Oliver ends up will be different. And they have been 80-90% sure they could get her back all along.

Anyway, we might end up getting a feeling for how much they shoot next week but that can also be really deceiving.  

Edited by Featherhat
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Trisha

Trisha

In the comments for the TVL article about EBR returning, Matt says MG told him that they hadn't filmed extra footage with her during the season seven finale. Even though MG is making it out like things aren't planned that far in advance, the would have known for a year by that point that her contract was up at the end of the season. Filming extra footage just in case seems like a no-brainer, so I bet they had (unofficial) conversations about her returning for the finale ages ago. 

Quote

Lincoln says:
I kindof assumed that they had shot something at the end of last season with her that they were saving for the series finale.

Matt Webb Mitovich says:
I asked Marc Guggenheim back in August; they did not film anything.

Ranx says:
We have paparazzi photos of Felicity (same clothes as her final scene but with glasses and no age makeup, suggesting she went back in time) and The Monitor filming a scene where they arrive at the rural cabin and she runs in. So I suspect Guggenheim is pulling the wool over your eyes, for whatever reason.

Matt Webb Mitovich says:
Cool.
Matt Mitovich: When you shot the Season 7 finale with Emily and LaMonica on the street with the fog and everything, did you happen to pre-shoot something else with her, while you had her there?
Marc Guggenheim: No…. I guess there’s a world where you’re thinking that far in advance, but that’s pretty rare. In fact, the last scene that I’ve written for the show, I only wrote that [in late June].

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Trisha

Trisha

The amount of coverage EBR’s return is getting is amazing. Even People.com covered it.

11 hours ago, Chaser said:

This is random but I hope we get a Charlie/EBR pic or future scene. He was so sweet about her.

I wonder if JJ was also brought into the present (just a different place) or if his character just saw a Connor blink out of existence and is currently WTFing.

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

I posted most of this interview in the COIE thread (LoT forum), but these particular comments relate to the endings of 802 and 803, Oliver, and Lyla/Harbinger...

Arrowverse's LaMonica Garrett Talks All Things Crisis, Getting the Part of The Monitor, and More
Sarah Little at November 1, 2019
https://www.tvfanatic.com/2019/11/arrowverses-lamonica-garrett-talks-all-things-crisis-getting-the/

Quote

The ending of Arrow Season 8 Episode 3 was crazy. We saw in a flash of light that Future Team Arrow and Present Team Arrow are now together. And, I'm guessing it's because of The Monitor. Why would he do that?
I think everything that The Monitor does, there's a greater purpose for it. Whether it's to get more of what he needs out of a particular character, or to just, you know, even disrupting, that would get something out of a particular character that he needs to be fulfilled before the Crisis starts.

So, pretty much everything he does is leading up to the Crisis, and he needs all hands on deck, and the right mental state to approach the crisis. So, it's not just physical, it's mental, and his main subject for the Crisis is Oliver Queen.
*  *  *
Oliver doesn't really trust The Monitor anymore because of what he read in the League of Assassin's records. How will The Monitor's relationship with Oliver play out moving forward?
I think that's the fun thing about it. If Oliver was all in on what The Monitor was doing and telling him, it wouldn't be as much fun to see what happens with it. So, naturally, he has people in his ear like Diggle telling him don't trust this guy, you create your own destiny, you don't have to listen to him.

And, he's one of his close friends. You have people around you, telling you otherwise, and you're already starting to doubt. And, now your kids get pushed into this timeline, that might be the final straw. He's not in a good place right now, so I think it's natural for him to distrust The Monitor.

But, The Monitor knows what he's doing. It might not be the right way of doing it, but it's all for a greater purpose.
*  *  *
I wanted to talk about Harbinger because we saw at the end of Arrow Season 8 Episode 2 the meeting between Lyla and The Monitor. What was it like bringing that iconic duo from the comics to life?
That was one of my favorite moments this season, as far as what The Monitor was involved in. When I read that, I got really excited because that was my moment as the actor and as The Monitor of like, alright the Crisis is really about to be here. Because Harbinger and The Monitor are two of the key figures in Crisis.

Them meeting for the first time, that was a wild moment for me. I knew it was coming because I filmed it, but when I watched it -- when Lyla is walking, and she's speaking to someone, The Monitor coming out of the shadows -- that moment was like, yes, the Crisis is here. That was awesome.

And, [as for] their relationship, more will come from who they are when the Crisis starts, and that's part of the fun. You're laying all these breadcrumbs, culminating into something big later on.
*  *  *
Will we get to see the pasts of Lyla and The Monitor at all?
You will get to know more about who The Monitor is and where he came from. A lot of that will fill in the blanks for other pieces that may be missing. But, you'll get to know who The Monitor was back in the day, how he became who he is, and what he is about. You might even feel some empathy for him, some compassion.

Edited by tv echo
tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

A lot of great media reactions to the news of EBR's return in the series finale (I'm posting just the tweet links so as not to slow the downloading of this page)...

https://twitter.com/DEADLINE/status/1190354458649038848
https://twitter.com/people/status/1190429214660595712
https://twitter.com/TVGuide/status/1190314293855735808
https://twitter.com/lindsayjoane/status/1190426394276184064
https://twitter.com/TVLine/status/1190303132653379591
https://twitter.com/MattMitovich/status/1190303485025292294
https://twitter.com/MichaelAusiello/status/1190303241491251200
https://twitter.com/EW/status/1190304913487777793 
https://twitter.com/SaraNetzley/status/1190317570945142785
https://twitter.com/TVInsider/status/1190309680310112256
https://twitter.com/ComicBook/status/1190306047099097089
https://twitter.com/IGN/status/1190478908451368960
https://twitter.com/screenrant/status/1190310702138961920
https://twitter.com/ETCanada/status/1190329210084028417
https://twitter.com/JoAnne_Rowney/status/1190310019046236163
https://twitter.com/justjaredjr/status/1190303132389117952
https://twitter.com/DiscussingFilm/status/1190306365320896513
https://twitter.com/GreenArrowTV/status/1190318876044578816
https://twitter.com/SYFYWIRE/status/1190346472165953536
https://twitter.com/SuperHeroHype/status/1190322284021440512
https://twitter.com/fangirlish/status/1190328618221789186
https://twitter.com/NetflixLifee/status/1190330580166045696 
https://twitter.com/DenofGeekUS/status/1190316832844111880 
https://twitter.com/Hypable/status/1190354432095084544

Edited by tv echo
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

I am so pleased that we have official confirmation of EBR's return for the series finale. 😄

I hope that Oliver & Felicity get their happy ending - with their kids, even though they'll have to explain how Mia and maybe also William can go on to their own spinoff series.

Edited by tv echo
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Trisha

Trisha

(edited)
 

Here are the lyrics (though in the past with songs he’s chosen it’s more about the title than the actual song)

Quote

Now we take our time 
So nonchalant 
And spend our nights 
So Bon vivant 
We dress our days 
In silken robes 
The money comes 
The money goes 
We know it's all a passing phase,

We light our lamps 
For atmosphere 
And hang our hopes 
On chandeliers 
We're going long 
We're gaining weight 
We're sleeping long 
And far too late 
And so it's times 
To change our ways 
But I've loved these days. 

Now as we indulge 
In things refined 
We hide our hearts 
From harder times 
A string of pearls 
A foreign car 
Oh we can only go so far 
On caviar and Cabernay. 

We drown our doubts 
In dry champagne 
And soothe our souls 
With fine cocaine 
I don't know why I ever care 
We'll get…

Edited by Trisha
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

A few more media reactions (tweeted on Nov. 2 and 3)...
https://twitter.com/Collider/status/1190735347614924801
https://twitter.com/TheWrap/status/1190689823079583744
https://twitter.com/flickeringmyth/status/1190528970518908928
https://twitter.com/NerdCoreMOV/status/1190893875008638976

Edited by tv echo
tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Some noteworthy media comments about EBR's return (all from the tweets and tweeted articles that have links in my posts above)...

People and Entertainment Weekly (Chancellor Agard article) - "Olicity will be whole once again — because Emily Bett Rickards is coming back to Arrow."

Sara Netzley of Entertainment Weekly (tweet) - "OH THANK GOD #Arrow."

TV Guide (tweet) - "#OLICITY FOREVER 💖 @cw_Arrow's Emily Bett Rickards is returning for the series finale ...."

TV Insider (Meredith Jacobs article) - "Arrow — and especially Felicity and Olicity — fans can breathe a sigh of relief. ... We can't wait to see what Rickards' return means for Arrow, Felicity, and Olicity. It wouldn't be right to end the series without her. Will Felicity and Oliver get a happy ending?"

ComicBook.com (Russ Burlingame article) - "Emily Bett Rickards will return as Felicity Smoak in the series finale of Arrow, according to series star Stephen Amell. Rickards joined the series early in its first season, originally in a small role. Her talent and obvious screen chemistry with series lead Stephen Amell got her promoted to series regular, and she became one of the most important elements of Arrow. Rickards departed the show at the end of the seventh season, declining to stay on for the eighth and final year. Her character's absence has been felt, and Felicity has been referenced numerous times in the opening episodes regardless." Also - "[Rickards] added at the time that she did not know if it was strictly necessary for a return, since the story had set up her destiny (and that of her kids) pretty clearly. 'We sent her off in a beautiful way and she lives on in these people,' she added. 'I see her everywhere I go, so it's not totally goodbye.'"

IGN (Jesse Scheeden article) - "While Rickards has been a mainstay on Arrow for most of its run, she departed the series at the end of Season 7. Felicity's absence has been hanging over the series in Season 8, with Amell's Oliver Queen forced to leave his wife and infant daughter behind to help the Monitor deal with the coming Crisis. This announcement suggests Ollie and Felicity will reunite one more time, even as Ollie seems fated to die in the Crisis."

ScreenRant (Molly Freeman article) - "The CW's Arrow star Stephen Amell confirms Emily Bett Rickards will return as Felicity Smoak for the series finale after exiting in the season 7 finale. Rickards joined the DC TV show in season 1 as the lovably awkward tech genius Felicity Smoak, and became an integral part of the original Team Arrow - which included Oliver Queen (Amell) and John Diggle (David Ramsey). She became the Green Arrow's 'girl in the chair,' directing him on missions from inside their headquarters. Over the years, Felicity and Oliver also developed a romantic relationship, eventually getting married. ...  Certainly, considering how integral Felicity was not only to Arrow as a whole, but Oliver's story, it makes sense to bring her back."

ET Canada (tweet) - "@CW_Arrow's @StephenAmell announces that #EmilyBettRickards is returning for the series finale and fans are losing their minds."

Jo-Anne Rowney of Radio Times (tweet) - "Happy to hear Emily Bett Rickards is back for the #Arrow series finale - it wouldn't have been the same without an Olicity reunion."

Just Jared Jr. (tweet) - "BEST NEWS EVER FOR THE MONTH OF NOVEMBER!!!"

Syfy Wire (tweet) - "True love never dies as long as you can afford special guest star rates and promise there will be no more than one day of shooting. #Arrow."

Syfy Wire (Trent Moore article) - "Her story has become deeply intwined with Oliver’s arc, and it’d seem hollow to wrap up the series without his true love at least showing up for a scene or two. No word on how much, or how little, she might factor into the finale episode."

Netflix Life (Alexandra Ingham article) - "Arrow hasn’t been the same without Felicity, and we knew that was going to be the case. When the show confirmed that it would run its final season, Emily Bett Rickards announced that she wasn’t going to be part of it. That has, thankfully, changed. ... Rickards is coming back for the final episode. Recently, the team shared that work on the Arrow series finale had started, and now Stephen Amell confirmed that Rickards would be back. Olicity will be back together again, in some sort of way." Also - "Amell was like so many of us when it came to Rickards leaving. The Arrow we knew ended with the Season 7 finale. This season has felt different—good or bad, it’s still felt different. Now we get a chance to finish on a high with all our favorite faces in the episodes."

Den of Geek (tweet) - "Oh, thank god. Emily Bett Rickards will be back for the #Arrow series finale."

Den of Geek (Kayti Burt article) - "The Arrow series finale wouldn't have felt complete without Felicity Smoak. Thankfully, we won't have to suffer through that fate."

Hypable (Lelanie Seyffer article) - "Good news, Olicity fans! The Arrow series finale will mark the return (and final appearance) of Emily Bett Rickards as fan favorite Felicity. Those Arrow fans who have been missing their Olicity content in this final season will get to see their faves one more time before they have to say goodbye to their favorite show. ... Though she had been initially brought onto Arrow as a one-off character with a minor role in the show’s third episode, her chemistry with star Stephen Amell was so great and her popularity with the fans so great that producers decided to keep on the show. ... As a tech geek and hacker genius, Felicity was brought into the Arrow team fold and ended up as one of the most integral members of Team Arrow. Her will they-won’t they dynamic with Stephen Amell’s Oliver Queen was eventually resolved into a firm yes they will, ending up in marriage to the vigilante."

Collider (Dave Trumbore) - "Arrow, the superhero series that redefined the way comic book characters were portrayed on TV, is coming to an end. And while that will certainly be a bittersweet moment for all involved, there’s one change that should have fans everywhere ecstatic: Felicity Smoak is coming back. ... The Arrow series finale is slated to air on January 28, 2020, just two weeks after the concluding episode of the four-part crossover. Prepare yourselves, Olicity fans; it’s going to be a helluva ride."

Flickering Myth (Gary Collinson article) - "Rickards made her debut as Felicity Smoak in the third episode of Arrow back in season one in 2012; originally planned as a one-off character, Felicity quickly became a fan favourite character and key figure in the show, as well as making the transition to the DC comic book universe."

NerdCore Movement (article) - "Oliver will see his queen return before ‘Arrow’ wraps its series finale. ... It was welcome news for ‘Arrow’ fans after the shocking revelation that Rickards was leaving the show and wasn’t expected to return for the final season. It was a huge loss considering Felicity had become a massive part of the show as Oliver’s wife and the mother to his daughter, Mia."

Edited by tv echo
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