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Spoiler Discussion Thread: The Final Countdown

scarynikki12

By scarynikki12
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

How Charlie Barnett Took On Arrow's Unexpected New Villain
by LAUREN PIESTER | Tue., Oct. 22, 2019
https://www.eonline.com/uk/news/1085427/how-charlie-barnett-took-on-arrow-s-unexpected-new-villain 

Quote

While it appears that Barnett has been particularly busy this year, it's actually the culmination of a few years of work. He filmed Russian Doll two years ago, then Tales of the City six months after that. Over the past few months, he's been back and forth on You and Arrow, but right now he's hanging out in hotels, waiting to go to work and "auditioning [his] ass off." 
*  *  *
None of the many characters he's played recently have even felt like similar people, which Barnett says is something he strives for. 

"It's something that I struggle with a lot," he says. "I was working on JJ again today for this new stuff coming up, and I really try hard to work on each character differently and just show a different outlet, you know." 
*  *  *
As JJ, the current leader of the Deathstroke gang, he's got a suit and a mask and lots of stunts to do, which adds a whole new element to the acting challenge. 

"You know, I'm probably going to get in a lot of trouble for saying this, but I like to say that there's a lot of situations that actors can walk into, and one of my favorite ones is a reactionary situation. I love Leonardo DiCaprio. This is not shade on Leo, OK? He's a brilliant actor, but I was really surprised to see him not win an Oscar for all of the unbelievable performances that he has delivered and to win it specifically for The Revenant. Because it was one of those situations that I'm like, it's a reactionary acting situation. You put anyone in the freezing cold in Alaska and tell them to act cold and lost, it's not gonna be that hard, right?" 

"Not that it's not hard...it's just that the environment adds so much, and you can pull so much from what's around you in those situations," he continues. "This character—again, I don't see him as a villain. I see him as a twisted person reacting to difficult situations in his life. I don't like to judge them as bad people, but yeah, the suit, the physicality of it helps me so much in finding who he is." 

Edited by tv echo
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tv echo
tv echo

You're welcome, @AveMaria30! Thank you, everyone, for making this Arrow forum a place I've wanted to visit and participate in over the past several years. Although I'll continue to post anything Arrow

Velocity23
Velocity23

Seems Emily is coming back

KenyaJ
KenyaJ

I never had any doubt, but I'm so, so excited. Best news ever!

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Featherhat

Featherhat

(edited)
26 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Yeah, it's fan art that someone made right after the spin-off was announced.

Yeah I figured because that icon has been floating around for one thing and it doesn't look like anything WB/CW produced, especially after the GA part of the working title was introduced. Not to mention nothing tweeted from any other account. I thought it was more continuation of contrasting promotion for this spin off. Neither "side" mentions the other. 

As for JJ. Sorry CB, I see him as a villain because he and his "gang" kill people in cold blood. He's probably had a lot of difficulty in his life and we'll be getting some Diggle family backstory starting this week but "people react differently?" No doubt, but some of those reactions are bringing a nuke to a family barbeque squabble. Is he hinting he might also be in the spin off or in the last ep? 

Speaking of the Diggles, whilst we've talked about the Connor adoption possibly being part of this ep aren't we supposed to find out how long Lyla has been Team Monitor this ep as well/instead of?

Edited by Featherhat
Featherhat

Featherhat

(edited)

If it isn't Mia getting pulled into the present, I'm going to be disappointed now, having thought it was a wild theory at first. 😉 It could be William I suppose (if it's something like that) but Mia is a bigger bet. 

Trying to think of what else it could be that's a "bigger than E2 getting destroyed/Lyla" moment. Maybe one of the sites will spoil it again. 

Edited by Featherhat
insomniadreams88

insomniadreams88

I almost want it to be William just so we can have a conversation between him and Oliver about how Olicity wanted to bring him home and tried to reach him and couldn’t. Because I hate that hasn’t been addressed and honestly I don’t expect it ever to be.

At first, I wondered if the surprising moment is Thea-related, but since WH has said she’s only filmed one episode (so far?) but is recurring, I doubt it? (I’m assuming the recurring status is for 803 and 810? Maybe the crossover too?)

Maybe it’s a surprise guest star? Aren’t there supposed to be some coming up (including a big one in 807) that haven’t been revealed yet?

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way2interested

way2interested

The Hypable article makes me nore unsure, since the writer was more stressing the Crisis angle (and hates the FF IIRC, so if it was related to that I think there would have been some more hint towards that). Like, I was originally thinking that the FF plot would be FTA trying to rescue William with Mia going rogue to do it herself leading Zoe to come help and then maybe die, but with Mia and William having scenes/moments together (glad the writers are taking advantage of the obvious cheesy parallel opportunities) it more sounds like that maybe William escapes on his own and they just recollect themselves to take down JJ again. Then maybe the ending could be the same (Mia gets thirsty for revenge after JJ threatening William and messing with Connor, goes on her own and gets into trouble that may or may not lead to Zoe's death), but idk

With Diggle and Lyla talking about Connor, though, maybe the character death is actually Bronze Tiger, since he hasn't actually died yet. Then, it would kind of have to be someone from FTA coming to the present in order to explain why FTA lost one of their own (unless Chico was Chico again).

Regardless, I think the ending almost has to be related to at least a character showing up (whether FTA, a guest, an alt version, etc.), because they only released a fraction of photos for 804, and they only do that when they are trying to block a spoiler character (ex: JDJ pics from 713, KC from 614, for some reason CB from 802 because everyone assumed we didn't watch 719 and know that JJ was in the Deathstroke gang, etc.) and it's clear in a few pics that the other characters are looking at this mysterious character.

Featherhat

Featherhat

(edited)

We know that 2040 Team Arrow are reeling from the loss of one of their own in 8x04 and many presumed it was Zoe's death, but she appears to be in 8x09 (of course several places for that to be undone). We know that there is a death and it's not related to the shocking cliffhanger. 

So either there's a death in the future and a COIE related cliffhanger that has nothing to do with 2040 or there's a death in 2019 and someone disappears/leaves 2040 - presumably unbeknownst to them ends up in 2019? 

It could be to do with Thea but I have no idea what. If they kill her, I'd think they'd "Reset" it so she's alive post ep 6 or COIE.

Very possibly Bronze Tiger death if it relates to Connor being adopted by the Diggles. He'd be a big enough one to make an impact. 

Oliver's looking very shocked in 8x04 with Jackass McVague Mission behind him...We know Oliver and Mia are spending at least part of COIE together and we don't know if William is around (but probably IS in it if Connor is?) so them being able to have a heart to heart for a couple of eps before a possible reset is good.

That would fit with KM talking about Mia promising to protect William and a big shocking thing happening that shakes her, if he disappears because The Monitor saves him but everyone thinks he's dead and also allows the Mia/Connor thing to develop further as also said by both actors.

However, if everything is building towards a GA Mia spin off then it makes sense to get her as much storyline with Oliver as possible and she's clearly a big character than William atm and that's potentially more COIE related. 

Also tonnes of opportunities for it to be a complete wildcard as well. Trying to think of who could be a big enough guest star to be OMG who hasn't been announced yet. My head hurts. 

Edited by Featherhat
Featherhat

Featherhat

So much for "just a couple of eps" CB. I guess he was in negotiations. I wonder if that means he's redeemed or changed via COIE or if they've got him set up as a ready made villain? Changed via COIE would play into JDJ's assertion that Connor changes sooo very much. Also again looking more likely that it's set in some version of 2041. Unless it's a complete merge with the present (and how would that even work?) that's a lot of 2040 characters to transport back in time. 

tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Hey, maybe adult Sara Diggle shows up in the future! Though I don't know how that would be considered a cliffhanger.

Here's CB's interview with TVLine...

Will Arrow's Deathstroke Kill William? 'JJ Is Willing to Do Whatever He Needs'
By Matt Webb Mitovich / October 27 2019, 12:00 PM PDT
https://tvline.com/2019/10/27/arrow-season-8-preview-charlie-barnett-jj-deathstroke/

Quote

The second episode of Arrow‘s farewell run left us with that question, as JJ aimed to “rip the heart out” of the Unification movement by targeting its members, William (Ben Lewis) included. TVLine spoke with Chicago Fire alum Charlie Barnett, who plays grown-up JJ, about what’s to come and the blood to be spilled.

TVLINE | So, JJ is stone-cold. 
He’s pretty hard, you know. He’s been through a lot.

TVLINE | Were you familiar with Arrow‘s Diggle and Lyla? And if so, were you surprised to that see JJ fell so far from noble tree?
You know, I went back and watched a lot [of previous seasons]… but … from knowing life, from knowing people, no, I’m not surprised. People who grew up in homes, they sometimes feel like they missed out on something or were given a disservice, so I’m not surprised to see him turn into a complicated or “villainous” person.

TVLINE | Connor explained to Mia that his parents had been focused on him, their adopted son, and so JJ lost out.
He definitely did. Connor was adopted and came from his own complicated situation, and that kind of weight — I’m adopted myself, so I know from experience — can be really difficult, and it manifests in very different ways for each person. As a child who maybe didn’t necessarily ask for another brother or a sister but received it and was happy to have it, to see then you kind of get “forgotten” within the fold, because of the actions of this new family member…? A twisted result can come from it.

Really, we have to remember that JJ is at this point just trying to show them that there is another side to this story, as much as people are labeling him a “villain.” As Charlie the actor playing the part, I don’t see him as a villain; I see him as being given the short end of the stick. Look at Green Arrow, who is such an interesting character because he’s not a perfect hero. He’s not Superman.

JJ at his core is trying to make a voice for the people who have been dealt a sh–ty hand or had a sh–ty situation — maybe they lost someone, due to these people. He’s just trying to make that voice heard. Now, maybe he’s doing it in a bad way…. [Laughs]

TVLINE | Speaking of that, when he threatens to have William killed, on a scale of 1 to 10, how much did he mean that?
Oh, whole-heartedly 10. He’s willing to do whatever he needs. He has been pushed and he’s been pulled for many, many years in his life. In the backstory I have in my mind, he and Connor were friends, they were brothers, and they were tight. And at some point in their adulthood, JJ started to see what he had lost out on and what Connor had gained in retrospect. Look at the fact that Connor is working with his dad so closely, and JJ was never given that opportunity. It makes his blood boil just thinking about it.

On top of that, I don’t think he knew that his father and mother were these heroes. So to grow up and learn later in life that not only are they revered as these respected people of the community, but they did all this good and they didn’t take time to do good for the one person that they created….? It’s really kind of f–ked. So from that, his anger has reached a major, major boiling point, to the point where he’s like, “I can’t even hear what you have to say. Sorrys don’t work, because all that time has been lost. I want you to feel my pain.” He is reacting from an emotional place, but he is attacking it from a technical side. His ideas are grand, but his reasoning is emotional.

TVLINE | At the end of the day, if there has to be a “final showdown” between Deathstroke and somebody, will it be with Connor… or Mia? Or both?
Oooh, good question…. I mean, thank you for assuming I am badass enough to take them both on. I will say that yes, everything has to be faced. All of the knots have to be untied. When that is, I can’t even tell you that I know. But these are deep complications whenever you’re talking about family matters, and it’s usually pretty twisted with emotions. These are the kind of problems that perhaps won’t be solved with one fight or with one person winning. And on top of that, it will be so difficult for anyone to live with, if it comes to a place of having to kill one another…. How do you go on living with that? I’m excited as an audience member to see where it does go.

TVLINE | I saw Kat [McNamara] and Juliana [Harkavy] tweeting about production starting on the spinoff’s backdoor pilot. Are you a part of that?
Oh yeah.  

Edited by tv echo
Featherhat

Featherhat

It would certainly make sense to introduce them earlier because of the literally 1000s of plot threads and so many characters who are apparently more than cameos. Like Oliver and Felicity's sudden need to get married/not married in COEX with much less going on. I thought it might be William now and Mia later given Mia's more likely to be needed in the future for JJ shenanigans and to connect with Connor. But she's more likely to cause "present tense" issue than William, need the lead up to being handed the GA mantle by her Dad and act as a stand in for Felicity. 

That said it could still be a completely different character and neither of his children who shows up.

13 hours ago, way2interested said:

I laughed

I really enjoy the sense of humour FTA show about this stuff, BL especially comes across as self depreciatively funny. 

tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

(Legends Universe)

A reunited Oliver and Thea fight ninjas in Arrow sneak peek
By Chancellor Agard   October 29, 2019
https://ew.com/tv/2019/10/29/arrow-oliver-thea-reunite-clip-season-8/

Quote

Even though they haven’t seen each other in two years, it feels as though no time has passed, as you can see in the exclusive sneak peek above that shows them fighting some of Talia al Ghul’s (Lexa Doig) students together. The same can be said of Amell and Hollland, who picked up right where they left off when the cameras started rolling.

“It’s like riding a bike,” Amell tells EW of working with Holland again. “It was like she had never really gone. Our first day on that episode, it was mostly just her and I out walking in the forest, so to speak. We just dropped back into our old ways.”
*  *  *
While Thea has proven time and time again that she can handle herself, that hasn’t stopped Oliver from being over-protective at times. According to Amell, knowing what she’s been through the past two years will help Oliver finally star trusting her completely.

“I think that we finally just cement the fact that Oliver considers her to be her own person and he trusts her implicitly,” says Amell. “He still wants to protect her but what she says goes because she has not been chilling on a beach. She’s been battling and she’s acquitted herself really well. I’m glad he finally came around right in the nick of time.”

Edited by tv echo
tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

I'm afraid to get my hopes up, but remember this comment by Beth? ...

-- On whether there an Earth where Baby Sara still exists, EP Beth Schwartz: “We are definitely making up for that this season, so, keep your eyes open for it." (Oct. 15, 2019 GreenArrowTV and Eonline articles, page 5 of Spoilers thread and page 23 of Spoiler Discussion Final thread)

Edited by tv echo
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way2interested

way2interested

(edited)
7 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Are they even working? The lady in the back looks like she has a purse over her shoulder. Maybe she’s a mutual friend they went out to dinner with.

JDJ was someone SS, CH, and AS went out with last year during filming before it was revealed he was on Arrow, so I'm guessing it's following that logic. It was more obvious for him though to be devil's advocate since they deleted the pic later, CH and KM started following him on Instagram, he played Diggle's son in the future before, etc, so I'm not entirely convinced yet either.

Edited by way2interested
tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Ahh, Charlie Barnett really wanted to work with EBR because he fell in love with Felicity and thinks that EBR is an "incredible actress"...

INTERVIEW: Actor Charlie Barnett on the real villain of ARROW’s final season
Joe Grunewald   10/29/2019
https://www.comicsbeat.com/interview-charlie-barnett-arrow/

Quote

... I had the opportunity to chat with Charlie Barnett prior to the beginning of Arrow‘s final season, and he talked about what drives J.J., his experience joining the series, and who from his perspective is the real villain of the story.
*  *  *
Grunenwald: How far into production on the current season are you?
Barnett: We’re getting up to I believe episode 9 coming up. We’re getting around to the end of it.

Grunenwald: Episode 9, is that the first post-Crisis on Infinite Earths episode?
Barnett: Yeeees? (laughs) I’m trying to think of the title of it, too, and where we are, and you know, I don’t want to give anything away. The one problem that I’m having with it is the ‘infinite earth’ part, because I’m not sure if we’re there again, but I don’t want to tell you where we are because it might give it all away.
*  *  *
Grunenwald: That’s great. Your scenes are set in 2040, as the future version of John Jr., but are you interacting at all with the ‘present-set’ cast members, or Stephen or anything?
Barnett: I have to say, we’re not done, so I don’t know where it’s going. But as of now I have not had the opportunity to. We see each other, of course, walking by on set and everything, and I think there’s a hockey game coming up in another two weeks that unfortunately I’m not going to be able to get to, but I was hoping that I would get to play against them. (laughs) But no, our worlds have not crossed. I haven’t met with Papa yet, and I haven’t met with Stephen yet. You know, in a dream world, too, because I fell in love with Felicity, so I wish-wish-wish that I could have something with her.

Grunenwald: She’s a great character.
Barnett: She’s a great character, and she’s an incredible actress, just stellar work, so, so brilliant. Really, really loved her work.

Grunenwald: On John Jr. specifically, we don’t know a ton about him before the season starts. It was alluded to last season that he’s the leader of this ‘Deathstroke gang,’ but we haven’t spent a lot of time with them and we haven’t met John Jr. yet as the season starts. What can you tell us about him?
Barnett: It’s another one of those ones that I’m like, I don’t want to give too much. I can tell you John Jr. is a twisted soul. He’s a good man at his heart. I don’t like to judge my characters, and I try not to judge the villains specifically, because then you fall into a world of not understanding them. He comes from a place of hurt, and he comes from a place of feeling forgotten, and that’s a lot of where his anger extends from. And from that he has lived in this world of encouragement of chaos. He wants to see everything thrown to shit, for lack of a better word. Honestly the reason I was so excited to play him was kind of, living in that risky world. I think, though, at his core he has a heart. He has a soul. He still loves and he still wants to be loved like any of us do. We’re all just little babies just wanting to be held. (laughs) But he is caught in between honoring the pain that he’s had to suffer and the experiences that he’s lost out on, specifically deriving from one person in his mind.

Grunenwald: Sort of related to that, the experiences that he’s missed out on, and this may be that person you’re talking about, but what is his relationship like with Connor Hawke?
Barnett: You know, that is an interesting one. I’m sure you’ll get to see it develop, and I’m even seeing it develop more and more. They had an incredible relationship. They have always had an incredible relationship. And then there was a giant fissure in it, I think early on in their life, is what we as actors discussed with the creators. From that, their relationship changed drastically and it became combative. I hope that doesn’t give too much away, but I guess from the trailers you can see that it’s pretty combative. They aren’t blood related and we all know that, but like any relationship that is family, despite blood origins or despite any of your history, that connection is almost sometimes stronger than you can control or maybe even stronger than you can push away from. There is this connection or chain link between the two of them that is inevitable, and will always be connected no matter how much J.J. tries to sever it.
*  *  *
Grunenwald: It’s interesting because last season there was a lot about Oliver and his half-sister, and then stuff with Oliver and Felicity’s son and Mia, so a lot of stuff with siblings last year, and then to see that relationship between J.J. and Connor coming forward in this season should be interesting. 
Barnett: And especially jumping back and forth, and getting the opportunity to see all of them kind of—I’m sure all of the knots are not going to be untied, but getting a chance to kind of address them is going to be really interesting. That’s all the stuff that I got to read but I didn’t get to see, so I’m going to be able to, like a viewer, get to enjoy it as much.

Grunenwald: Is the role a very physical one for you? Have you done any fight training for it?
Barnett: It is an incredibly physical one. I set this in a couple of interviews, and I hope that I’m not dogging on my other stunt coordinators, because, all the different stuff that I’ve done, I’ve never done anything like this. This is way more physical, it’s way more individual. Most of the stuff that I worked on was from Chicago Fire, and it was fires burning and escaping rooms and saving people, jumping off ladders and junk like that. It’s a different kind of physical activity, and in Fire, a lot of the time we would push and push and push and push. I know Taylor Kinney always wanted to do his stunts, I always wanted to do my stunts, Jesse (Spencer) always wanted to do his, Monica (Raymund) always wanted to do hers, so we kind of had these windows when they would allow us to.

It ain’t the same (laughs), when you’re trying to do a double-back-flip and a karate kick to the face. As much as I keep saying, ‘please, please, please, train me, put me in it,’ I think that I have to back down and let it go to the people who are trained, who are unbelievable. My stuntman is just sick, and I know that he’s gonna make it look unbelievable. It’s definitely the first opportunity for me to kind of have this world where you have to give up part of your character. You have to give up that physical nature and somehow meet in the middle with your stunt person, because they have to live together, they have to show it’s the same existence and that can be challenging. If I’m walking with a limp, and then all of a sudden my stunt team is doing ten flips, shit don’t match. So it’s really intriguing and fun for me to map that out.
*  * *
Grunenwald: Something you mentioned earlier, do you see John as the villain in the 2040 sequences? I’m sure he doesn’t see himself that way, but how do you view his role?
Barnett: It’s interesting that you say ‘John,’ because John Diggle I do, in a lot of ways.

Grunenwald: I specifically meant John Jr., but I see where you’re coming from.
Barnett: I hear you, but yeah, my father, I have a lot of issues with. (laughs) Myself, no. I think that I see what they’re doing as just as much a disservice or complication. They don’t know the ramifications of their actions. And it’s a conversation that I think is really…’useful’ maybe isn’t the right word, but ‘useful’ fits, though. It’s something that we need to have today, especially, just to get frank with you, with everything, the violence and trauma and fear that’s emanating in our country. These people are coming from a place of hurt, and it’s too difficult to try and sit down and understand them, and I don’t know if a lot of people have the patience or care to, honestly. But in order to make a stop, we have to start listening. We have to start challenging it in the right ways and eliminating it. And I know that’s such a big scope to relate it back to something like this in a television show. I don’t want to diminish those things that are going on because they’re horrendous and terrifying.
*  *  *
But it’s interesting to have this character, to be playing this ‘villain’ stereotype and understand, from my standpoint, this person is seeing these heroes go into these cities or towns, save people, and while they save people they’re also killing other villains, and with that you kill a family member. You kill my father, you kill my brother, and that creates another ripple effect. And I’m not saying that the heroes aren’t right, and I’m not saying that they shouldn’t be stopping these people from doing evil things, and that the person on the other side, the brother or the son or the daughter, should have somehow come to a realization that those actions were wrong, but there is an effect, and that effect causes something else. I’m getting on a little bit of a soapbox now, aren’t I?

Grunenwald: No, no, and I feel like a recurring theme on Arrow from the beginning has been either atoning for the mistakes of the past, or the sins of the past being revisited on future generations. So I think it’s perfectly applicable.
Barnett: And it’s so inlaid into the comics originally, the character himself – is he good, is he bad, he does bad things, he does good things, he does what he feels he needs to do in the moment. And that could be in question. For any of us as human beings, you’re a hypocrite if you’re saying you haven’t been put in that position. You’re not living if you haven’t been put in that position. So it’s something we all can relate to, it’s just, we all have to get better at doing the right things, and also understanding that every action has an effect, and weighing what’s the best for the whole. As an audience member it’s been the most fascinating part about Arrow and the one thing that makes it so different, and I really appreciate that.

Grunenwald: I do want to ask you about Crisis. I know you probably can’t say a ton, but what role will J.J. and the rest of the 2040 crew play in that crossover?
Barnett: To be frank, I don’t know that much, and what I do know, I can’t say. (laughs)

Grunenwald: My next few questions are going to be real boring then.
Barnett: I plead the fifth. I will say that you’re left off at a point in the middle of the season where things definitely need to be tied up. There’s a lot of unanswered questions, and I’m hoping that a lot of those will be addressed in this upcoming universe, no pun intended. But I…I guess that’s it. (laughs)

Grunenwald: Okay! Last season there were a couple references made to John Diggle being John Stewart on an alternate Earth, which would make him a Green Lantern. That technically means that you could also be a John Stewart on an alternate Earth. Any chance you show up as a Green Lantern before the series ends?
Barnett: I will tell you upfront, that was not a conversation that we did have, but it’s a conversation I would freakin’ love to have. As much as you can put 100 percent of your thoughts into ‘this is what’s going to happen,’ in these kind of comic book worlds, not only because the world is so open ended, you can go anywhere, but also because literally the structure part of it, the comics that have come before it or the comics that are still coming out, allow so many possibilities to follow, and as we’ve all seen, it’s almost too many possibilities for everybody, and especially these shows, to tap on each single one. So I think it’s kind of up in the air.

You know, on a side note, we’re in this beautiful age of seeing women have much more ability and much more possibilities in this kind of stifling industry, to be frank. I would be open and really excited to see a female Green Lantern.

Grunenwald: Yeah, and Jessica Cruz is a canonical Green Lantern from the comics—
Barnett: Of course, of course.

Grunenwald: —it’d be cool if she showed up.
Barnett: You never know. (laughs) You never know.
*  *  *
Grunenwald: It’s been reported that one of the episodes in the final season will be a backdoor pilot for a spinoff set in 2040. Do you know if there’s a role for J.J. planned in that story?
Barnett: That I would also be excited to hear about, too, but I have no clue. We had talked about it kind of nonchalantly as a group of actors when I was on there, and I haven’t been back for the last episode, so I haven’t seen them in a bit of time, and we had a little bit of a break, but maybe things have developed in the last couple days that I don’t know about. I would hope to see it build, because, first and foremost, these actors and the crew, I would love to see them just have opportunities because they’re all really, really incredible and they deserve it. But, you know, TV world, we’ll see.
*  *  *
Grunenwald: As a final question, what are what are you most excited for people to see during during this final stretch of episodes?
Barnett: I’m excited in a bigger scope than just myself. I’m excited to see how people relate to the family dynamics within the story, and how those are kind of tested and pushed and pulled and every kind of effect is pulled upon them. I’m excited to see how people who aren’t superheroes, maybe, but are superheroes in a sense of being an incredible father, mother, leader, brother, sister, I’m excited to see how that kind of translates and relates. On a personal level, I’m really excited to be playing something…villainous (laughs) as much as I don’t judge him, but it’s something that people will see as the bad guy, and hopefully make them question that.

ETA: After reading CB's interview above, what if adult Sara Diggle is the Green Lantern on another Earth?

Edited by tv echo
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Josh371982

Josh371982

2 hours ago, tv echo said:

(Legends Universe)

A reunited Oliver and Thea fight ninjas in Arrow sneak peek
By Chancellor Agard   October 29, 2019
https://ew.com/tv/2019/10/29/arrow-oliver-thea-reunite-clip-season-8/

Wasnt their Backstage Photos for this episode where Kat was at looked like the area where they flim Lian Yu scenes? Maybe Mia shows up there?

Featherhat

Featherhat

"Bianca Scott" could always have been a code name for Sara Diggle if they did want to bring her back for the spin off either from a different Earth or timeline shenanigans. Aww Thea and Oliver reunited, they have so much to talk about, I'm glad WH was able to come back. Seems like their will be some double brother and sister themes tonight. Still madly curious about the big cliffhanger, especially whether it ends up being one of the young Queen sibling duo. 

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Trisha

Trisha

I am very here for the Oliver and William scene!

https://www.tvguide.com/news/arrow-season-8-episode-3-oliver-meets-adult-mia-william/

Quote

"He's flabbergasted, obviously," Stephen Amell told TV Guide of Oliver's emotional state in the aftermath of this little introduction. "He doesn't really know what to do with Mia. I think actually the coolest interaction [...] doesn't actually come between Oliver and Mia, it comes between Oliver and William. The scene, my first sort of big one on one scene with Ben, straight up might be my favorite scene this year."

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Featherhat

Featherhat

I'm very here for a good William and Oliver scene, it definitely needed to happen before COIE, especially as we KNOW Mia is heavily involved in that. There was a lot left hanging between them. I wonder if he'll come out to his Dad in a way that it couldn't when he was 13 but the trouble he was getting in to was to do with his sexuality? BL is doing a really good job with William so it's nice he's included in the family reunion/drama. Mia and Oliver is clearly going to be a big thread, but I can see where that is going to a certain extent. I guess this is also where Oliver has acquired a big team from by ep 7. 

Going back to the spin off drama to process the cliffhanger which actually brings the two groups together right now. 

It seems it is a FTA spin off (set when is who's guess now especially if there's a reset in ep 6 and after COIE) with added Canaries and neither group is happy about that or acknowledging it. But FTA are in it, at least in the pilot and Kat still seems to be the star. I wonder what's drastically different to what she was originally promised beyond the obvious? I still think it will be picked up but I hope they solve any drama for their own sakes. It wouldn't be the first show to be pitched something and turn out drastically something else, LOT for example in both good and bad ways some of the actors have acknowledged. 

insomniadreams88

insomniadreams88

I do have to question who cut together the promo. 

William: “What year is this?”

Oliver: “2019.”

William: “I think we’re in the past.”

And you can tell by how they’re standing  that William’s second line comes first, possibly one of the first of 804, then the what year/2019 bit. 

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MISS1

MISS1

This pap always talking, after it's true that I think Kat mc would have wanted to focus on the new team arrow, because she liked a tweet in this direction before erasing it
It is clear that KC seems to have projects with the CW but he should know that she has had many other jobs besides the CW
Coming back on this spin off, the writers will try to cut in half, it is necessary to make concessions, as what despite everything, KC has influence on the CW

Velocity23

Velocity23

36 minutes ago, MISS1 said:

This pap always talking, after it's true that I think Kat mc would have wanted to focus on the new team arrow, because she liked a tweet in this direction before erasing it
It is clear that KC seems to have projects with the CW but he should know that she has had many other jobs besides the CW
Coming back on this spin off, the writers will try to cut in half, it is necessary to make concessions, as what despite everything, KC has influence on the CW

Katie has strategically been ignoring any mention of the FTA characters since the season started.  Which is insane when you consider that the spinoff she will be a part of will remotely revolve around the new team arrow. So i am not surprised Kat sees some things she doesnt like. She posted some really awkward video of herself getting praised by Juliana and Kat but outside of that the future is female tag for the spinoff seems more and more like a joke. And its funny that when Arrow was shooting their pilot the issue was Katie Cassidy also. KC might have some connections at the CW but they still not enough to get her the lead role or her own show. Its barely enough to stick her into projects. But i think its best not to  test Kat too much, she is not the one dependant on the CW to be busy with jobs, and if the shows goes into a direction she wasnt sold on the spinoff might be off as Kat walks off. 

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

I like that the kids showing up gives something for pretty much everyone in the present to deal with (apart from either one of the Canaries). Oliver’s meeting Mia for the first time as a grown up and seeing William again, Diggle’s gonna fins out one of his boys is a villain and that there’s another one he didn’t know about. I assume Rene will find out about Zoe. Really looking forward to next week’s ep. 

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Josh371982

Josh371982

4 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

Zoes death will have enough of an impact on Dinah, especially if it was revealed she was a Canary under Dinahs wing. Though it seems like the Olivers mission for The Monitor may be put on hold with all of this going on. Will definitely be interesting to see the new dynamic between everyone.

I'm pretty sure William Mia and Connor are in 2019 BECAUSE of The Monitor. He Zapped Oliver back to Starling City and FTA back to 2019. Probably/Possibly so Oliver gets closure with Both his kids 

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statsgirl

statsgirl

While it was very nice of The Monitor to save FTA from being killed, is he not concerned about screwing up the timeline, assuming there is one in the future (which there is since the other four shows are all continuing)?

Diggle doesn't know that he adopts Connor. Is Connor going to tell him, or keep that and what happens to JJ a secret? Warning Diggle now could keep JJ from going bad. Are we going to see Connor wrestle with this?

Are Mia and William going to tell Oliver that Felicity went looking for him? How is Oliver going to react to learning that he never came back in 2019?

What is Is Oliver going to be think to learn that he was replaced by a Canary Network?

I'm curious to see how BL and SA act out the Oliver/William scenes since BL is actually older than SA.

I assume that after COIE is done, the Monitor just replaces FTA back in 2040. Is he going to wipe their memories or learn them knowing their younger parents?

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Featherhat

Featherhat

I wouldn't find the future changing as long as they find a way to keep EBR's exit intact if she isn't (or hasn't) filming for the finale. It doesn't make any sense if that isn't post COIE anyway. They could have kept it for 8x10 and worked it in if they knew they were changing things. OTOH I don't want too many drastic changes to these characters personalities post COIE or for the spin off, it's annoying enough that LOT is doing it.  I want a Mia who remembers COIE (and the others if they're also there). 

I suspect there will be a lot of keeping some stuff secret or trying and failing to. William and Mia should have watched enough time travel shows and Oliver and the rest know the Legends who pay lip service to preserving the timeline. And get judgy about it in a couple of crossovers despite the hypocrisy. It also depends on if this is going to last the rest of the season or be "reset" in 806 and then they're (or at least Mia) around again for COIE. That doesn't seem worth it. They won't be able to hide who JJ is if he really is a Deathstroke in the present. 

The setting for the spin off is up in the air a lot more now they're all around, though I still lean towards more of a future than the present. 

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Trisha

Trisha

I'm assuming the future will be changed -- at least the moments before the Monitor transported FTA into the present timeline -- mostly because if CB is telling the truth and JJ is part of the spinoff, having him brutally kill Zoe is a pretty irredeemable thing for that character to do (even as a villain). 

11 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

I suspect there will be a lot of keeping some stuff secret or trying and failing to. William and Mia should have watched enough time travel shows and Oliver and the rest know the Legends who pay lip service to preserving the timeline.

Maybe this will be used as an excuse not to go see Felicity. I could see Oliver immediately wanting to take Mia and William to see her at the cabin, but William citing Back to the Future-ish rules about Mia not being able to risk interacting with her younger self.

I'm probably not supposed to say this, and I love the actress so much and of course I support her decision to move on, but man, it's times like this when it really makes me a bit angry that EBR bounced before the end -- especially since it seems she's not working right now. Even if she wasn't in all episodes and only a handful of the significant ones, next week seems like there will be some pretty momentous family moments and it sucks that Felicity won't be part of them. I'm still hopeful that she'll be back for the finale but ugh.

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tv echo

tv echo

I posted this entire interview in the COIE thread (LoT forum), but here are a few portions that are specifically relevant to Arrow...

'Arrow' Crossover’s LaMonica Garrett Teases Anti-Monitor’s ‘Pure Evil’ Plan, The Monitor’s Backstory
Nicole Massabrook    10/29/19
https://www.ibtimes.com/arrow-crossovers-lamonica-garrett-teases-anti-monitors-pure-evil-plan-monitors-2855927 

Quote

IBT: How much are you kept in the dark at this point? Did you get to know at the beginning of this season what The Monitor's true intentions are and what his end game is?
Garrett: I had no idea all the way up until I got all the scripts for the shows for “Crisis”... And I would talk to Stephen [Amell, who plays the Green Arrow/Oliver Queen]. Stephen, like most of the leads of the shows, they kind of know what's going on, especially Stephen's character because he plays a huge part in this being the last season for "Arrow" and all.

So he's like, "Yeah, have you heard anything about what's going on?" I'm like, "No man, tell me." Like I'm always the last to know,  and so it was kind of funny.
*  *  *
IBT: Should audiences trust The Monitor? He's now telling both Barry and Oliver that they have to die in order to save everyone. 
Garrett: Yeah, he is a bad news bear. But I love the fact that they pulled what The Monitor did from the comic books and brought it to the screen and that's kind of what he did in "Crisis." And even before "Crisis," the original in 1985, when they first introduced him in Teen Titans, he was doing bad things in his head for a better cause. He was a weapons dealer to villains and super villains. He was doing things that were shady, but you saw his end game in the end. So I think that's the part where we're going to watch "Crisis" and learn more about him and why he did this and who he really is.
*  *  *
IBT: If The Monitor is this all powerful being, then why can't he get these items himself? Why does he need the help of the superheroes?
Garrett: Because he knows he's not going to be able to defeat The Anti-Monitor by himself. So he needs not just the item that he's telling Oliver and I'm sure he has other heroes that [are] trying to get all this stuff together. He knows he needs a team of superheroes. And getting the items is not just getting those items, but it's a process of coming together. So he's accumulating all this for the process of coming together. He needs the team. And it's hard to tiptoe around that question because I know when the Crisis comes, he's going to be blatantly honest about why everything happens the way it happened and the audience will understand his motives.

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