S03 E05: Unknown Caller

[greekmom]

10 hours ago, Callaphera said:

Aunt Lydia: “Posture. There will be consequences. (Translation: Keep your eyes on the fucking ground. You’re gonna get it if you act up.)”

June: *looks at Commander Waterford*
June: * looks to stage right at Aunt Lydia*
June: *looks directly into the camera*
June: *will face no consequences*

Treason and Coconuts Guy is gonna show up once a season to throw out that line and then disappear for the rest of the episode. Which is sad, ‘cause he’s kinda cute.

I thought as long as June didn't make any signals to the camera to show that she is distressed or say anything to show any unhappiness then there would be consequences. All she had to do was stand there. 

I felt sorry for treason guy when he said he misses his home in Atlanta.  I am wondering if Atlanta is still ok to go back or it's a hazard zone?

SJ is all kinds of stupid not to take up Treason guy's offer. 

[SourK]

I don't understand what Serena's deal is anymore. In season one, she wanted to kidnap a baby. In season two, she succeeded and then discovered that the world she had built to let her kidnap a baby was not the world she wanted to raise a baby in, so she let June take the baby to Canada. Now... is she trying to get hold of the baby again so that she can make a deal with super spy for BOTH of them to go to Hawaii or whatever?

That kind of makes sense to me as a motivation, if that's what's happening, but it's needlessly dangerous for the baby, and frankly I'd rather she just took super spy's offer, now.

On 6/19/2019 at 1:05 AM, rideashire said:

June asking for Serena to owe her...sure. Like that's actually going to work out in her favor. Doesn't she know by now she can't trust these people?

I groaned at that because it was so weak. I guess it worked out in that Serena brought the tape or whatever, but, when you're dealing with people like this, you make them do the favour for you BEFORE you do the favour for them.

On 6/19/2019 at 6:04 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I couldn't believe that Fred was being so passive and constantly demurring to Serena. This is the guy who had her finger chopped off and now he's like "whatever you want, dear."

That seemed weird to me, too, but then I remembered two things:

1) stealing a baby was always Serena's pet project more than it was Fred's so, if she's off that now, he might be totally fine with moving on.

2) he's in the hoover stage of his abuse cycle where he's worried that the power dynamic has shifted and she won't forgive him so he's trying to be nice. There's a limited window where he'll be really solicitous until he feels dominant again.

On 6/19/2019 at 10:05 AM, maggiegil said:

I wondered about the choice to have June in the video, showing the woman you raped seething in the back seems like a bad choice to present to the world.

I couldn't tell if it was being broadcast live, though it seemed like it might have been. If it was, that was really the moment to fuck some shit up and damn the consequences. It's a way, way different dynamic than asking her if she's happy in a closed room in front of two diplomats. (Which was terrifying; remember when this show was terrifying?)

On 6/21/2019 at 11:53 AM, Umbelina said:

Canada may not want trouble with Gilead and it's massive weapon supply, but nothing is stopping them from helping Luke to relocate to his own country, what is left of the USA, or hell, even moving to Europe with Holly. 

...

I don't know why the refugees in Canada don't have a YouTube channel up telling their stories to the world.  Why aren't they actually DOING anything? 

Same. I don't understand why more of the refugees aren't interested in going to what's left of the USA, especially since it's probably more actively involved in undermining Gilead. Though I'm not going to fault them if all they want after what they've been through is to be safe somewhere with their families.

But I do wonder why they're not ALL OVER the media telling everyone what's happening in Gilead. Though, I suppose people who flee from North Korea go all over the media telling us what happens there and it's not like that's stopped people from having diplomatic relations with the country or from concluding that most people who live there must be fine with it.

[greekmom]

35 minutes ago, SourK said:

Same. I don't understand why more of the refugees aren't interested in going to what's left of the USA, especially since it's probably more actively involved in undermining Gilead. Though I'm not going to fault them if all they want after what they've been through is to be safe somewhere with their families.

Ditto. I would say if they stayed away from continental USA (what's left of it unless the men want to go and fight) What maybe left that is off continent is Alaska, Hawaii and Virgin Islands. It would really ease the tension off the Canadian government.  

[Whimsy]

14 hours ago, marinw said:

What was up with the stripped-down airliner? Why take out all the seats? Just to make life in Gilead suck even more?

That was a military plane. You can see that same type on shows like Seal Team, etc. 

[marinw]

41 minutes ago, Whimsy said:

That was a military plane. You can see that same type on shows like Seal Team, etc. 

Not much tourist travel in or out of Gilead!

But the Commanders and their wives must want to travel in comfort. Whatever. I am thinking about this too much.

[Umbelina]

4 hours ago, greekmom said:

I thought as long as June didn't make any signals to the camera to show that she is distressed or say anything to show any unhappiness then there would be consequences. All she had to do was stand there. 

I felt sorry for treason guy when he said he misses his home in Atlanta.  I am wondering if Atlanta is still ok to go back or it's a hazard zone?

SJ is all kinds of stupid not to take up Treason guy's offer. 

There is a map that was leaked, it's in the spoiler thread..you can check if you like.  As I recall, the show made the map, but ended up using the dumbed down ones instead at that house where June gave birth. 

[chaifan]

23 hours ago, marinw said:

What was up with the stripped-down airliner? Why take out all the seats? Just to make life in Gilead suck even more?

It was being used as a cargo transport plane.  My guess is they have little use for passenger planes, but need cargo planes.  So they converted what they had.  I don't think Serena's trip was sanctioned at all, so she had to be snuck into Canada via cargo plane, which was obviously going there anyways, as it was empty on landing but full when they took off to return to Gilead. 

Why Canada is still trading with Gilead, and what they are shipping out, is still a mystery.

[Kel Varnsen]

When Serena was at her mom's house packing up photos and other momentos I really thought she was planning on defecting. Since why else would she bring that crap along.

On 6/21/2019 at 2:28 AM, scrb said:

But to try to win diplomatically and in the court of global public opinion?  I thought Gilead was a highly ostracized country, largely subject to embargoes.

Canada and Mexico might have to maintain some semblance of relations, maybe some trade, but I thought Canada still recognized the US govt. in exile and not Gilead diplomatically.

So no extradition treaty (but only criminals are extradited) and no normal diplomatic relations.  Canada should just tell Gilead to sod off.

I kind of had to laugh when that Gilead council guy said that there options with Canada for getting the baby back were limited. In my mind, and to paraphrase Bruce Campbell, their options are Jack and shit, and Jack just left town. I mean from season 1 we know there is a pretty big trade embargo against Gilead. And even if there wasn't what would they have that other countries like Canada would want? Sure Gilead could try to use miitary force, but their military can barely seem to handle fighting the remaining US forces/resistance. Plus in my mind, after the US fell apart I could easily see Canada making sure all their other mutual defence treaties were good.

And I could totally see a situation where other world leaders are just itching for Gilead to attack an ally. Because while I could totally see other countries not wanting to get involved in a US/Gilead civil war, I bet there are a few countries out there that would appreicate an excuse to be able to step in and back up the US in fighting Gilead and shut that place down.

[Umbelina]

1 hour ago, chaifan said:

Why Canada is still trading with Gilead, and what they are shipping out, is still a mystery.

I don't think they are.  I think the "trade deal" they keep talking about is still a Gilead pipe dream.  Canada isn't going to break with the UK, and the rest of the world to trade with this horrific country, but they may dangle it to keep from being attacked themselves, or bombed.

(also, what Kel just said )

[chaifan]

The plane was empty when Serena left Gilead and arrived in Canada, and it was full when she got back on after seeing Holly.  So there has to be some trade that would have allowed for a plane full of goods to depart and go back to Gilead.  

[endure]

On 6/18/2019 at 10:46 PM, mamadrama said:

This is pissing me off. I'm not real happy with how they're portraying Fred, either. Sometimes he's a master manipulator, sometimes a bumbling fool. Sometimes it seems like he's actually trying to be helpful and caring towards June, other times it seems like he's just enjoying messing with her mind. I'm a writer, I get the point of having a well-rounded, complex character but sometimes this seems to go beyond that and is hovering right around poor, confused writing. 

Agree, the writers seem so stuck on the good vs evil in their characters along with long gazing, seething, anguished looks.

[Kel Varnsen]

10 hours ago, chaifan said:

The plane was empty when Serena left Gilead and arrived in Canada, and it was full when she got back on after seeing Holly.  So there has to be some trade that would have allowed for a plane full of goods to depart and go back to Gilead.  

The trade thing doesn't really make sense since if there was trade going on the plane would have been full both ways, trading something for something. In my brain I figured that they made a stop in Buffalo or something after Toronto and are bringing goods from there back to Boston.

And really what the hell woulf Gilead have to trade? The Mexico episode seemed to indicate that the only thing of value they really had were fertile handmaids. Beyond that there is what, hand knit clothing? The grocery stores are always pretty empty and like I said back in season 1 I doubt the Gilead bread coupon carries the same value worldwide as the US dollar did.

[greekmom]

13 hours ago, chaifan said:

The plane was empty when Serena left Gilead and arrived in Canada, and it was full when she got back on after seeing Holly.  So there has to be some trade that would have allowed for a plane full of goods to depart and go back to Gilead.  

Maybe medical supplies from Canada? But in trade for what?  Fruits and veggies from the warmer states that now belong to Gilead? Or maybe UN supplies?  

One thing that bothered me was the discussion between SJ and Luke.  Luke asked about June.  SJ said she's been reassigned. Her face was so impassive -- like June just got another job.

I really cannot believe that SJ is really ok with the whole Handmaid deal to get a kid with the ceremony and all.  Basically - if SJ felt that she was barren (which i still think she isn't) and needed a surrogate wouldn't they have tried to find one?  Moira jumped at it pretty quick to get out of debt.  I honestly think that her religious convictions take second place to her need to wanting a child. 

[AnswersWanted]

17 hours ago, chaifan said:

The plane was empty when Serena left Gilead and arrived in Canada, and it was full when she got back on after seeing Holly.  So there has to be some trade that would have allowed for a plane full of goods to depart and go back to Gilead.  

Yet again the show has decided to set up a situation they haven’t bothered to actually write out and explain on screen.

Obviously the relationship between Gilead and Canada is no longer as hostile as it was, after the letters’ were released, but who the fuck knows why or how that happened.

Is it because of war successes and power gains on Gilead’s side and Canada wants to hedge its’ bets? Are the Canadians sick, and strapped for resources because, of the influx of refugees and are starting to feel less than hospitable about taking care of them long term (that could have been the most realistic plot they might have shown so far frankly)?

It’s not as if the show doesn’t have a plausible story they could tell us about how and why circumstances have changed in these regards, they just don’t give a shit to.

They’d rather show Serena “Where’s the Joy” Waterford pop off her crazy cliff for the 10th time. 

Personally I think that the show is definitely setting up this “trade” angle to involve more than just goods, especially with the way they’ve inserted Holly’s custody into the mix.

Canada could start thinking about returning certain persons if it meant improving relations with Gilead, or just getting back something or maybe someone else they view as being more valuable. And if the general Canadian public has already turned cold towards the Gilead refugees, then the government would not be at risk for a full on country revolt over it.

The rest of the world might have something to say about it, but of course actually intervening would probably be seen as only a last resort, just like today. 

[ferjy]

2 hours ago, AnswersWanted said:

Yet again the show has decided to set up a situation they haven’t bothered to actually write out and explain on screen.

Obviously the relationship between Gilead and Canada is no longer as hostile as it was, after the letters’ were released, but who the fuck knows why or how that happened.

Is it because of war successes and power gains on Gilead’s side and Canada wants to hedge its’ bets? Are the Canadians sick, and strapped for resources because, of the influx of refugees and are starting to feel less than hospitable about taking care of them long term (that could have been the most realistic plot they might have shown so far frankly)?

It’s not as if the show doesn’t have a plausible story they could tell us about how and why circumstances have changed in these regards, they just don’t give a shit to.

They’d rather show Serena “Where’s the Joy” Waterford pop off her crazy cliff for the 10th time. 

Personally I think that the show is definitely setting up this “trade” angle to involve more than just goods, especially with the way they’ve inserted Holly’s custody into the mix.

Canada could start thinking about returning certain persons if it meant improving relations with Gilead, or just getting back something or maybe someone else they view as being more valuable. And if the general Canadian public has already turned cold towards the Gilead refugees, then the government would not be at risk for a full on country revolt over it.

The rest of the world might have something to say about it, but of course actually intervening would probably be seen as only a last resort, just like today. 

Tsk. How would they have time for June's closeups then?

[AnswersWanted]

31 minutes ago, ferjy said:

Tsk. How would they have time for June's closeups then?

How silly of me, there are so many to choose from you know?

The rage induced flared nostrils close up; the “fuck them allllll!!!” face close up; the sneer and scowl turned up to 11 close up; the “emotional, teary-eyed, all hope is lost” close up; and of course, the classic June “smirk like nobody’s watching and realizes what a total badass you are, for real” close up. 

[ferjy]

14 minutes ago, AnswersWanted said:

How silly of me, there are so many to choose from you know?

The rage induced flared nostrils close up; the “fuck them allllll!!!” face close up; the sneer and scowl turned up to 11 close up; the “emotional, teary-eyed, all hope is lost” close up; and of course, the classic June “smirk like nobody’s watching and realizes what a total badass you are, for real” close up. 

lol Such a versatile actor! The smirk is my favorite, the (wannabe) unstoppable renegade. Inspires me to rebel on the spot. (I did almost eat half a tub of ice cream while watching, and no one was going to stop me!) The scowl zoom-in would send children screaming from the room with a night filled with nightmares.

[Kel Varnsen]

5 hours ago, AnswersWanted said:

Obviously the relationship between Gilead and Canada is no longer as hostile as it was, after the letters’ were released, but who the fuck knows why or how that happened.

Is it because of war successes and power gains on Gilead’s side and Canada wants to hedge its’ bets? Are the Canadians sick, and strapped for resources because, of the influx of refugees and are starting to feel less than hospitable about taking care of them long term (that could have been the most realistic plot they might have shown so far frankly)?

It would be nice if they expanded on that. Because I could see Canada maybe doing ok with the Gilead situation, maybe not in the short term but possibly in the slightly longer term. I mean two things Canada has going for it is a ton of natural resources and a lot of space. So at least if you use your biggest trading partner you have a bunch of new people who can work turning those resources into products you used to trade for. 

Hell I would just like to know why after at least a couple of years Luke is only working part time construction. And foe that matter how did Emily's wife manage to get a huge house while Luke and Moira are just in an apartment in what seems like a building for refugees.

[angora]

1 minute ago, Kel Varnsen said:

And foe that matter how did Emily's wife manage to get a huge house while Luke and Moira are just in an apartment in what seems like a building for refugees.

Sylvia and Oliver didn't come as refugees.  She's a Canadian citizen, and while things were bad when they got out, it wasn't full-blown Gilead "escape under the cover of darkness dodging gunshots" bad.  So she probably had more options.

I agree with you on Luke, though.  With the fertility crisis, you'd think most countries would be short on people and looking for more workers (even if the crisis has gotten worse with each generation, there's probably still a smaller work force than Canada would need/want.)

[Kel Varnsen]

19 hours ago, angora said:

I agree with you on Luke, though.  With the fertility crisis, you'd think most countries would be short on people and looking for more workers (even if the crisis has gotten worse with each generation, there's probably still a smaller work force than Canada would need/want.)

I looked it up and Canada's population growth is something like 70% attributed to immigration now (and like 90%+  of the growth in the labour force. In the world of the show with the birth rate issues, Canada would be in desperate need of immigrants. Which is why it seems like Luke as an immigrant who already speaks one of the official languages should have a better time finding a job.

[lucindabelle]

Wow I saw Mrs Lawrence do weird intake of breath and immediately recognized Sarah jessica Parker. She does not look good with hair that dark.

interesting how she said “he curated music” not “he made mix tapes.” What year is this? Someone listening to tapes in college would be my age, 50s, if it happened right now. But isn’t this meant to be the future? And now would June even know how to use a cassette deck?

Edited June 30, 2019 by lucindabelle

[AngelaHunter]

On 6/30/2019 at 1:26 AM, lucindabelle said:

Wow I saw Mrs Lawrence do weird intake of breath and immediately recognized Sarah jessica Parker.

What?! Really? I was a huge Sex and the City fan but didn't recognize her and can't find her listed in the credits.

[Anela]

23 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

What?! Really? I was a huge Sex and the City fan but didn't recognize her and can't find her listed in the credits.

That isn't Sarah Jessica Parker. Her name is Julie Dretzin.

https://the-handmaids-tale.fandom.com/wiki/Eleanor_Lawrence

[AngelaHunter]

7 hours ago, Anela said:

That isn't Sarah Jessica Parker. Her name is Julie Dretzin.

Thank you. I know I zone out, but I didn't think I could miss SJP.

Edited July 1, 2019 by AngelaHunter
zoned out again

[Scarlett45]

On 6/30/2019 at 12:26 AM, lucindabelle said:

Wow I saw Mrs Lawrence do weird intake of breath and immediately recognized Sarah jessica Parker. She does not look good with hair that dark.

interesting how she said “he curated music” not “he made mix tapes.” What year is this? Someone listening to tapes in college would be my age, 50s, if it happened right now. But isn’t this meant to be the future? And now would June even know how to use a cassette deck?

I know how to use a cassette deck and I’m 33, June is closer to 40 no?? Mrs Lawrence looks to be in her early 50s to me......I assume she and Mr Lawrence were peers in school. The timeline works out if the story takes place in an alternate 2019 or the near future. 

[lucindabelle]

On 7/1/2019 at 11:20 PM, Scarlett45 said:

I know how to use a cassette deck and I’m 33, June is closer to 40 no?? Mrs Lawrence looks to be in her early 50s to me......I assume she and Mr Lawrence were peers in school. The timeline works out if the story takes place in an alternate 2019 or the near future. 

I did not express this well. Sure you may know how to use a cassette deck but you wouldn’t have been making mix tapes in college. And tapes are still in use. So it has to be alternate timeline, I guess.

ok thanks for correcting I really thought it wa SJP with bad hair.  (Hulu doesn’t show credits!)

[Kel Varnsen]

14 hours ago, lucindabelle said:

I did not express this well. Sure you may know how to use a cassette deck but you wouldn’t have been making mix tapes in college. And tapes are still in use. So it has to be alternate timeline, I guess.

ok thanks for correcting I really thought it wa SJP with bad hair.  (Hulu doesn’t show credits!)

Didn't Luke pull the walkman out lose out of a shopping bag before putting the tape in? That told me he bought it to play the tape. And the fact that it wasn't in a box told me he probably bought it used like from a thrift store or something. That doesn't seem too unreasonable to me, not sure about walkmans but I still see VCRs and VHS tapes in thrift stores.

[Scarlett45]

21 hours ago, lucindabelle said:

I did not express this well. Sure you may know how to use a cassette deck but you wouldn’t have been making mix tapes in college. And tapes are still in use. So it has to be alternate timeline, I guess.

ok thanks for correcting I really thought it wa SJP with bad hair.  (Hulu doesn’t show credits!)

No, I think you misunderstand. Mrs Lawrence  was the one making tapes in college- she’s in her early 50 to mid 50s. June knew how to use it because she used them as a child(like I would have) or a teen (if she’s almost 40). 

7 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Didn't Luke pull the walkman out lose out of a shopping bag before putting the tape in? That told me he bought it to play the tape. And the fact that it wasn't in a box told me he probably bought it used like from a thrift store or something. That doesn't seem too unreasonable to me, not sure about walkmans but I still see VCRs and VHS tapes in thrift stores.

Exactly. Luke bought the Walkman to listen to the tape, which June sent to him because that was all she had. 

They have digital media in this universe (smart phones and clouds etc) we saw that in season 2. 

The time line works out. 

[Nonja]

On 6/18/2019 at 10:27 PM, mamadrama said:

I know that Serena is an accessory to rape. I know that she had a heavy hand in the formation of Gilead. I know that she's done some terrible, despicable things and should be punished for torture or whatever when this finally blows up. She should get whatever the handmaids have received: a missing eye, a missing clit, etc. But damn it, my dislike of June is growing so strong that I actually find myself rooting for Serena Joy. Damn it.

Im sorry to say I agree.